Clause 11. Agreed?

Clause 12. Agreed?

Clause 13. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, yesterday in asking the questions about this government's authority to deal with this act, the Minister gave me information that in fact right now as a government we don't have the authority to deal with this piece of legislation until the federal act is put in. There is also, and I think it was Mr. Goldney, you referred to ultra vires or something of that nature, that in fact it can sit in there until the federal government has that ability. For clarity sake, the legislation we are passing will sort of sit out there until the federal government deals with their legislation and then it comes into force, correct?

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Goldney.

Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I thank Mr. Goldney for that response. When I look at clause 13, it is very open, it is a very common one that we do as legislators and as government. But based on the responses from the Minister and his staff, I have considered that to ensure for our government's sake that we don't put something in place that someone can just throw a challenge at. I figure we can tighten it up as far as we can as the Government of the Northwest Territories by making that clause a little more clear to the fact it specifies to the federal legislation. So on that, Mr. Chairman, I do have a motion to amend clause 13, that would reflect the response that we received from the Minister and his staff on this area and I would be prepared to move it at this time.

Mr. Roland, you have a motion to introduce. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The motion is being circulated. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 13, as amended. Agreed?

We will go back to preamble. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I apologize that I was absolutely unavoidably absent from the House yesterday and I was not able to speak to this bill under general comments and I would like to make a few remarks on this just at this juncture if I could.

Mr. Chairman, this is a very unique piece of legislation that comes to us for approval very late in our mandate. However, the Government of the Northwest Territories has been at the table and involved with the interests and positions of our government being put forward on a consistent basis. This is just one of three pieces of legislation that our government will need to deal with as part of the ratification process for the future agreement.

We do have a process for taking legislation such as this out to public consultation and I believe the these public hearings are sometimes as much about creating awareness as they are about receiving feedback. Many times legislation is complex and it would be unreasonable to expect the average person to have the resources at their disposal to consider it in great detail. It would be more likely to receive support or non-support for the principle and the intention of the legislation.

I am here in this Legislative Assembly first and foremost to represent the interest of my constituents in Hay River South and I was able to speak to several of them about this particular piece of legislation, but as Members a large part of our work calls upon us to look at decisions and legislation that affects our people on a territorial basis. So it is important, while having a focus on our own constituency, to also view our decisions through the lens of a territorial-wide perspective.

I fundamentally believe that a treaty such as the one signed by the Tlicho was an agreement between the federal government and the Tlicho people. Although the outcomes of meeting the obligations of the treaty may have an impact on our government and how we will do things in the future, we are essentially not a direct party to the agreement. We are being called upon to pass legislation which says that this government recognizes, affirms, validates and understands and agrees to the way in which this agreement will consequentially affect us. In this way, it is not a typical piece of legislation drafted, crafted and brought forward by our government. It is more amply described as a response to a federal government making good on a long-outstanding commitment as outlined in a treaty, and as much as it impacts us, I believe it has been good that we have been afforded representation at the negotiating table throughout the process.

With respect to the issue being raised by the North Slave Metis Alliance, there are many outstanding issues of rights and land and self-government which will be negotiated and signed in the future, and I am not comfortable with our government being put in a position of having to referee or being put in the middle of disputes as to whether one agreement infringes on another group's right. I believe that this is a case that needs to be taken up with the federal government and I am not in a position to make a judgment on those complexities. The North Slave Metis are asking for time. The ratification legislation required to be passed by the federal government hasn't progressed yet so I think that there is time to put their case forward.

So, Mr. Chairman, our government does have a process of taking legislation to public hearings, I respect that process and the commitment of Members who have spoken to that process. Everyone has agreed, however, that after 12 years and $28 million invested in negotiations, it isn't likely that this legislation is going to be significantly altered. This is just one of three pieces of legislation our government is going to need to pass. I would like to suggest that in preparation for public consultation that will occur on the next two subsequent pieces of legislation, that perhaps the territory-wide information and awareness initiative be undertaken by our government to inform anyone who is interested as to the substance and implications of the Tlicho agreement or any other land claims and self-government impacts generally for that matter.

Mr. Chairman, I do not believe that there is a great deal of risk for the Tlicho people if this legislation were deferred. However, I do believe that the passage of it today is as much symbolic as anything else, and it sends a message of support for this and many other aboriginal government partners that our central public government will work with it in the future as claims and self-government commitments made by our federal government are acted upon.

So for all of these reasons, Mr. Chairman, I have tried to express here today, I wanted to say that I won't be supporting third reading of Bill 34 today. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of points I would like to make as we finish this up. Mr. Chairman, first of all we've been inundated with many media requests to speak to this process in the last few days and so much paper you can't believe it, but I think one of the main concerns that has been expressed by the North Slave Metis on behalf of Metis people, and I believe that they are raising some legitimate concerns, but I believe these concerns are more correctly put to the federal government. I would hope that both the GNWT and indeed the Aboriginal Summit if they see fit, would work with the Metis people and take their case to the federal government. I believe they do need to be recognized, their rights need to be recognized and I hope the federal government can see the light.

Mr. Chairman, my main concerns throughout this have been about process, and the Premier the other day in speaking to the bill asked us to use our best judgment and asked us to take a leap of faith. Well, I have to say, for me, Mr. Chairman, this is not about a leap of faith. I certainly support the agreement, I support self-government and I believe that it will be better for the Northwest Territories. I also support the devolution of authority to the GNWT from the federal government for very similar reasons, and I think that this agreement will do more good for the people of the Northwest Territories to have it passed than to not have it passed. But, Mr. Chairman, my concern has always been with the process.

As we saw today, committee just proposed an amendment to this bill and it was one that passed in the House. So to suggest that a public process and public consultation would have no affect since this agreement has already been signed, I don't believe that that is the case. I recognize there would be no changes made to this agreement, but to suggest that there could be no changes made to the legislation, to suggest that it is inconceivable that anybody out there in the public might have had ways to improve this bill, I don't think that's fair, Mr. Chairman. I don't know how many drafts this legislation went through, but I am guessing it was in the neighbourhood of 20 or more. Do we assume that the content and the text were identical through 20 drafts? Obviously that's not the case. Obviously there were changes, there were improvements made. It's important I think to have a sober second thought. If there is anything we can do to improve this agreement, I think the amendment strengthens and improves this legislation and I think that's the kind of thing that the public process affords us. So now having made my concerns known about process and accepting that a committee heard my case and you don't always carry the day at committee, I recognize that and I appreciate that. Having raised my process concerns, I am not left with the question of whether voting in favour of this legislation or voting opposed to the legislation, what would be better for the people of the Northwest Territories. Is more good likely to come from passing this agreement now and moving past this having made my concerns known about the process? Mr. Chairman, I believe that's the case and that's why I will be supporting this agreement.

---Applause

But I certainly hope we recognize that this is not the way constitutional development should take place. In the life of the next government, if they don't recognize the need to involve all citizens and Members of this House in developing all pieces of legislation, I think that would be truly a shame. There was a way to do this properly. There was a way to make sure that Regular Members and all people in the Northwest Territories were more involved throughout the process. I believe we need to strive to ensure that that is the case for the next pieces of legislation we see. We did nothing but raise the concerns and fears of people when, in our last days in government, we move quickly to subvert a public process and jam something through the legislature. Even where there is nothing to be legitimately concerned about, we raised concerns. To me, that seems absolutely the wrong way to go about building the very types of partnerships that the Premier spoke passionately about the other day.

Mr. Chairman, as I said, I have to support this legislation because I think more good will come of my support than otherwise. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make a few comments on the preamble. Mr. Chairman, as you can see, the clauses in the preamble are a very clear and loud announcement of constitutional law. It is a very broad statement. It is a legislative statement about the rights and powers of the Tlicho people to have their own government that is recognized under the Constitution. Like all laws, and especially constitutional law, Mr. Chairman, it is a living document. It's something that's expected to have life put into it by the people. I believe the Constitution, and I have said this many times before, the Constitution isn't just about laws, clauses and words. Constitution is about relationships. It's about relationships between the people and the government that governs them or the people they elect, the government that people elect. It's about, in this case, a new relationship between Tlicho people and the people they come into contact with in the Territories. I believe very fundamentally that this agreement will force us to work closer and have a closer relationship than before. It asks us to work closely for the benefit of all the people who live here.

I believe this is a good agreement fundamentally. It will give us stability and certainty, not only for the Tlicho people but for Yellowknife. I don't accept for one second that this has no implications other than to the people who live in the Tlicho territory. In fact, this has deep meaning for everybody in the Territories. This government has a role to play and it will continue to have a role to play in terms of giving meaning to the words that are in this document in front of us.

I believe there was a flaw in the consultation process and that has been pointed out many a time and there are many reasons why that was the case. I don't believe it's too late for us to continue to have a conversation about different relationships that are being formed and are being grown out of here. I believe the NWT government, the Minister and the Premier and the next Assembly have very important roles to continue to play. It's not about whether this government is done now, and then you go away. I don't think anything about the relationship between different peoples works that way. There has to be a role for the GNWT to inform the citizens and to incorporate people's views into this document because it's really about how we, as a very small population of people, 40,000 people in a vast land with very distinct aboriginal people in different areas determining their own future and what they want to do with their land with their people and their priorities. We have to respect that, but we also, as a public government, have to be the mediator and facilitator and to provide leadership for the rest of the territory, as well as providing coordination. I believe in going through the clauses in this agreement, it makes it abundantly clear there will be a continued role for the GNWT to play in making sure that there are agreements to address, coordination and standardization and even administration of law and funding arrangements and such. I know there are lots of concerns out there that this was not given a due process and I don't believe this is the end. There is lots of opportunity yet to be had for us to discuss this and make this work.

I just wanted to make that comment. After what Mr. Bell said, after all is said and done, we could talk about process, but in the end people remember whether we supported this or not and I said on many occasions, I don't want to see a situation where all Yellowknife MLAs oppose a constitutional document in a new working relationship, a new living agreement, that the GNWT has entered into with the Tlicho government. I understand from the Premier stating that the Tlicho government did not have to come to the GNWT for ratification. It was a choice that they made. I do believe there are people out there who are aware that these negotiations have been going on and this means in a new relationship. People want to know and we have a role to play in that. I do want to use the power and the privilege I have here to say and send a positive message that this is a good day. This is a good agreement. It's calling upon all of us to work together and to work out the details. For that reason, I will be supporting the third reading of this legislation and I will do my part to talk to the people and to explain what I know about this information and work to get more information where it's needed. I do believe this is just the start of a new relationship. Things aren't going to change drastically tomorrow, it just means we have to work much closer together. I just wanted to add that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I still have to drive home tonight. I wish I was counting how many times people in this Assembly have repeated themselves with the same message over and over. So I am not going to bother repeating what I said yesterday. I want to make some reference to some of the correspondence. Yesterday I mentioned some correspondence I received from the Tlicho, the North Slave Metis Alliance and the Fort Providence Metis Council. Today, I want to add, for the record, that we have a letter of support from the Deh Cho First Nations signed by Herb Norwegian urging all the Members to pass the necessary legislation. I do want to pose a question because I haven't heard anybody ask the Minister regarding any assistance or commitment that he could provide for the North Slave Metis Alliance to work some of these issues out. I am not sure I can ask questions at this period, but those are the two items I wanted to raise. Thank you.