This is page numbers 1397 - 1454 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was tlicho.

Topics

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, I think what the Member is talking about is that there is a 10-year agreement on the intergovernmental services that we have entered with the Tlicho as part of this agreement. So the current programs and services that the GNWT is providing plus others, there's an agreement through the negotiations that GNWT will continue to provide these programs and services for the 10 years. So there are other programs in there that if need be, will be negotiated. The intention here is that the Tlicho will have 10 years to build a capacity to run the programs themselves. So it's in the agreement and it will be dealt with through the other Tlicho community service agency legislation that will be coming forth. Thank you.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Ms. Lee.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If other Members have questions to ask, I will just stand down my time until later. Thank you.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The chair will recognize Mr. Roland.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A couple of areas, and I'm going to bounce back and forth a little bit here. In chapter 7, section 7.9.1. refers to the government and the Tlicho government shall exercise their respective powers to the extent practical in a manner that coordinates the delivery of programs and service provided to the Tlicho citizens of the Northwest Territories. Now in the plain speak model they have a little note that says the Tlicho government, Canada and the GNWT will fund new and existing programs and services, they will work together to make sure programs and services are delivered properly. I'm seeking some clarification. Who would initiate the new program or new funding for new programs than those existing already for program and delivery services in the Northwest Territories?

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Bargery.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

Bargery

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The clause that the Member refers to is in there primarily because there are some concurrent law-making jurisdictions that may result in program and service delivery. The clause is in there to ensure that there's a coordination of programs and services that would be delivered. The agreement itself doesn't speak to new program areas, other than what's delivered. So if there is a new program area, I guess that would be up to the government responsible to fund, if that was the question, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bargery. Mr. Roland.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, under chapter 26, the economic measures section, 26.4.1, "It is intended that this chapter be implemented through programs and policies which are in place and from time to time without imposing any additional financial obligation on government." Can we get some clarity of that section?

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Bargery.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

Bargery

I think this clause is an important clause to ensure that there isn't any financial obligation, but some of the programs and policies in place, for example in the GNWT would be the business incentive policy, one of economic incentive-type program that would be intended through this particular clause. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bargery. Mr. Roland.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the deputy for that response. One other question, and it comes under chapter 7, 7.4.4(n) solemnization of marriages on Tlicho lands. How would the Charter of Rights and Freedoms apply in this area? Knowing that the laws of Canada are changing in that area, will that allow for same sex marriages and so on?

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Goldney.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Goldney

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The provision referred to is one of the jurisdictions set out by the Tlicho governments, and again the Tlicho constitution provides that the Tlicho government is bound by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, so the same laws that it applies are in the same way that our laws are bound by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If a court was to ultimately rule on the issue of same sex marriages was a discriminatory practice that wasn't justified under the Charter, that same ruling would apply to Tlicho laws.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1441

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Clause 4. Ms. Lee.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a question on the intergovernmental services agreement. I'm just reading through this plain speak, which is actually quite helpful because it does say very clearly what the agreements are agreed on. It says here under section 7.10.3 that under the intergovernmental services agreement, Canada and the GNWT will continue to pay for and manage programs like health, education, welfare family and social services. I see that this is in line with the jurisdiction that the Tlicho government is taking over, because I believe that's parallel to I think it's section 7.4 where it speaks about the areas that the Tlicho government is going to cover. It's one of the areas that the government is going to take over. I think this is the kind of area that people want to know more about. I know certainly the people who I represent want to know what sort of implication and impact this agreement would have on the GNWT, and the money question is a big issue. So I'd like to know from the Minister, seeing as he's the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs but he's still a Minister of the territorial government, a public government, and I'd to know what sort of implication, to his understanding, does this have to the financial status of the GNWT. Is it understood that this money that will be going to the Tlicho government to deliver these programs, will it come out of the GNWT budget, or is there an understanding that there is going to be new monies coming from the Government of Canada for the Tlicho government? Thank you.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1441

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1441

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, the Tlicho community service agreement will deliver services to all residents; education and social services in the Tlicho communities, much like the Dogrib Community Services Board does now and it will be established under our legislation. The current cost to the GNWT to provide that will still be there, so the funding will be coming from the GNWT for that. We're saying that it will minimize any incremental costs to the GNWT. So there will be a very small extra cost other than what we're currently providing to provide that service. Thank you.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1441

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Ms. Lee.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1441

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I must confess I'm still not clear as to how this is going to work. I understand that we're looking at a time quite a few years down the road, because I understand that the Tlicho government has set aside 10 years to have the opportunity to build capacity. Understandably the government and its people are going to be asked to do a lot and there are a lot of things to take care of in terms of training its people and getting their human resources up to capacity and such. So I understand this. But in the end, five or 10 years down the road, are we envisioning a situation where we'll get the transfer payment from the federal government, the pot of money that we do now, but that in the simplest terms, if I could just put it in a simple way, we're sort of agreeing on a formula financing with the Tlicho government where the Tlicho government will tell us that they will be serving 2000 people and provide programs A, B, C, D, E for 2000 people or whatever, because usually it's per capita, and we would expect to have this X dollar amount. Is that a simple but a correct way of looking at how the Tlicho government will be funded? Thank you.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1441

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Mr. Bargery.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1441

Bargery

Mr. Chairman, under the agreement, as has been noted, the Tlicho gain certain law-making authorities and can deliver programming to Tlicho people. What they've agreed to through the intergovernmental services agency, as the Minister noted, is to deliver those larger social envelope programming to all residents through an agency established through our legislation. For the first 10-year period things will operate in that respect, much the same way as they do today through the Dogrib Community Services Board. The Tlicho have the ability to make laws, deliver programs for Tlicho people in future. The funding of those programs in future, I guess it's unknown at this point. One option would be the GNWT could vacate the education dollars, for example, for Tlicho citizens and the Tlicho could take those over. There's no obligation to doing that, but that's one that could be envisioned could flow through us. I hope that answers the Member's question, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1441

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bargery. Ms. Lee.