I understand this is very complex and I understand there are the 10 years, sort of the gap years, of Tlicho and GNWT to get ready for that, so there's a 10-year preparation period. But I'm trying to see what this agreement means, and specifically this financing section of this agreement for years down the road when everything is sort of implemented the way it is envisioned in this legislation. The way I see it, the Tlicho government will take over the jurisdiction of those social envelopes, whether they be education, health, adoption, custody, all the items that are outlined in section 7.4. I also understand that the Tlicho government will provide these services to not only Tlicho residents but anybody who lives in that area, that they will take over that responsibility. So logically then I have to deduce from that that the GNWT will be out of that. I don't think we're going to see the GNWT and Tlicho government both providing the same services to the same people there. In order for the Tlicho government to do that, they are going to ask for that money from the GNWT to be transferred, and we may even see a time when the money will go straight from the federal government to the Tlicho government. I don't think any judgment should be made there. I think that people want to know what the agreements mean. Is that what it means? Am I seeing the scenario down the road correctly? That's my question.
Debates of Oct. 10th, 2003
This is page numbers 1397 - 1454 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was tlicho.
Topics
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1441
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1441
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1441
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Mr. Chairman, the intergovernmental service agreement will be put in place before this agreement comes into effect. The ISA, as it is called, was negotiated and agreed upon. The initial term is for 10 years and it can be renewed as long as all parties agree. So this ISA requires this Tlicho community service agency to be established by our legislation in the territorial government, so the next term, 15th Assembly, will have this legislation in front of them to thoroughly examine it.
We are currently drafting a proposal on this one. What I indicated earlier said education and social services are going to be delivered to all residents, similar to what the Dogrib Community Services Board is delivering. So the funding and the way they've been doing the work is similar, it's just switching over from one agency to the other, and we anticipate the incremental cost to be minimal.
The legislation will have a list of programs and services that this agency will deliver, and these services must be delivered as a priority over other services. If there's an amendment, then it has to be done by the Tlicho government and GNWT. If there are additional programs and services to be delivered, then we must have consent on that, and the funding for additional programs have to be sought. If the additional programs and services are proposed by the Tlicho or Canada, then we have to look for the funding for these additional programs. As the Government of the Northwest Territories we must consult with the Tlicho government and Government of Canada before assigning additional programs and services for the agency to delivery. So, yes, there may be other programs and services that may be added to the duties of the Tlicho community service agency in the future, other than what is currently being provided in the Dogrib Community Services Board, but there is a process outlined on how that is to be done. Thank you.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister, maybe just tell us whose land claim is this anyway that we're talking about here.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this is a Tlicho land claims and self-government agreement. It defines the rights of the Tlicho. Thank you.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on 4.2, rights and obligations; does this agreement apply to Yellowknife or the Delta? Will those people be affected by this agreement? Will they be able to get rights and benefits out of this agreement living in Yellowknife or living in the Delta?
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
This agreement establishes a Tlicho government in the Tlicho area, and it defines the Tlicho rights. So does it affect people in Yellowknife and the Delta or other places directly? No.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that's exactly my point. I think everybody is assuming that everybody has to be a part of this agreement. I don't think as an MLA from the Delta that I have influence on what goes on in Yellowknife and vice versa. But as we can see, these land claim agreements are for those geographical areas that have claims settled in those areas. What goes on in the Inuvialuit land claim area is the Inuvialuit's responsibility. What goes on in the Gwich'in settlement area is the Gwich'in responsibility. The same thing applies to the Sahtu, and now it applies to the Tlicho. I don't think that we as legislators that sit here and try to make it look like we have influence on what's going to happen here, because technically the agreement has been concluded, it has been signed off by the Prime Minister of Canada, now it's just a matter of it getting Royal Assent. In order for this agreement to take effect, it has to receive Royal Assent through the Parliament of Canada. In order for those rights and obligations to be implemented, what goes on here is just a formality, it isn't going to have a...
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, I did touch on clause 4.2, and that's the section I'm talking about with regard to rights and obligations. I think I've heard people speak on different sections of the agreement which were way off in left field compared to clause 4. So I would just like to make reference to 4.2, rights and obligations.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Well, I was working on it but I was cut off, so maybe I'll try it again. My point is that this agreement in regard to the rights and obligation applies to people in the Tlicho agreement and the federal government by way of establishing legislation which will give it Royal Assent when it passes through Parliament. So in regard to what we're hearing here about how this government seems to think it has some influence on what goes on in this agreement, that will happen when the legislation comes forth to be able to establish the Tlicho governance act and other acts that apply to the Northwest Territories. Those acts are not going to be in the legislature until the 15th Assembly, which will happen sometime in the spring. So I think it's more of a formality that we're going through here with regard to what's in this act. So I would just like to ask the Minister exactly what's the intent of this procedure in light of knowing that the final decision will be made by the Parliament of Canada?
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Mr. Chairman, my understanding of clause 4 and the intent of this is that we are the binding effect on persons is I understand a standard clause that is viewed in all land claims settlement legislation with the federal government involved. What we're doing here today is part of the ratification process to move the Tlicho land claims and self-government forward. The intention is to ratify this part of it. Thank you.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to the agreement and the rights that apply from this agreement, those rights only apply to the Tlicho citizens who reside in the Tlicho area. I would like to note for the record that's who this agreement is going to affect. It isn't going to affect people living in Yellowknife or anywhere else outside of the Tlicho area. This agreement is their agreement. For us to sit here and go on and on and on and try to be lawyers and professors like we think we're doing justice, I think we're doing an injustice to this without proceeding. So I'd just like to ask the Minister exactly how many people is this agreement going to affect directly?
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Jim Antoine Nahendeh
Mr. Chairman, it will affect all the Dogrib, the Tlicho citizens. I don't know exactly what the numbers are. Thank you.
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1442
Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1443
David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
So, Mr. Chairman, with some 94 percent of the people that did go to vote with a large majority of people voting in favour, their ratification should mean something in the sense that they ratified their agreement with a large number of the population saying that this is what they can live with through the ratification process. So with that, as a government what can we do to basically change that process? It has already been ratified. Can this government change the process after it has been ratified?