This is page numbers 1255 - 1298 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

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Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1292

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Handley.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1292

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, as was the case in other situations similar to this, the health board has run into an operational deficit. The government will consider some sort of plan to help the recovery from the deficit, but there's a requirement for them to do a long-term operational plan that will give us some comfort that we are not going to find ourselves back in the same situation again right away. So in the meantime, this $325,000 gives them some working capital to continue operations while they finish that long-term operational plan to get themselves out of difficulty.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1292

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Bell.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

That's a better explanation, but I just think it's interesting to remind ourselves that the last time we had a bailout situation of the health board, it was questioned by Regular Members and they would insist that this would be the end of the bailouts and we were going to hold boards to the higher standard, ensure that they were able to account for their spending and that we were not going to be in the business of bailouts anymore and there was a new sheriff in town. Apparently we have not entirely passed the year-old bailouts. Thank you.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1292

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Handley.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1292

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, I will refer that one to the Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1292

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Miltenberger.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in the broad view, we've been successful with all of the authorities to date and the Dogrib Community Services Board has worked very diligently to try to keep their costs in place. I want to point out that this is a unique situation where about five years ago or so, the government made a decision to create a community services board that brought together education and health and social services. Part of the commitment was they were supposed to do a review after three years, which has yet to take place. What we've discovered as we investigate this and look at it in more and more detail is while the Dogrib Community Services Board has some program issues, there are some other fundamental structural issues that have to be looked at in the longer term, which is what Mr. Handley referenced. There are some fundamental cost issues that have been driving the Dogrib Community Services Board costs.

Two of the amendments are the ambulance services, since they don't have an airport and they have to have means to transport their people to Yellowknife should the need arise. The other one is, once again, as we investigated this further, there's been historical under-funding on the administration side, which has also caused them to run a deficit. We have a circumstance where we have on one side of the equation of Health and Social Services and Education, a deficit on one side of the operation and a surplus on the other.

That's part of the broader review that has to take place. How do we rationalize these concepts? In the meantime, the cost drivers of the ambulance services and administrative costs require an adjustment to the base and a longer-term issue will be dealt with once the review is done and we get a clear look as a government if we are going to continue on the concept of community service boards and what we have to do to bring them together effectively right from this Assembly down to the communities where the services are provided in terms of the ability to do their budgets, common chartered accounts, legislation that allows them to do those types of things.

So this is a unique circumstance and one that we've been working long and hard on with the Dogrib board trying to resolve. This is one of the steps along the way. Thank you.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Lafferty.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

October 7th, 2003

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Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We seem to be seeing this amount every year. There is a trend now. We know it's under-funded. They are still playing catch-up because they are a new board. Why don't we start budgeting them for what they actually spend? We've seen that three years in a row, how much they are going over-budget. Somebody should have seen the light by now that they are under-budgeted and we should have made allowances for that in the business plans instead of seeing it in a supp. Why wasn't this done?

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Handley.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, we don't really know they are under-funded or how much they might be under-funded until we see the long-term operational plan that they are putting together. Once we have that, we will know whether or not this is a structural problem that needs to be fixed with more money in their budget. But until then we don't know.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Lafferty.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess they will never know once the agreement is signed, it will be out of their hands. Will the department be looking at all these issues, so this doesn't happen to other authorities that we create like the Sahtu board or a new board in Hay River or wherever? Shouldn't we be looking in the future, so that we fund these boards the right amount of money? Thank you.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Handley.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

That's right. We do have to look at it with each board. We do expect boards to have operational plans and if they run into difficulties, we expect them to come forward with a plan that shows us either how they are going to get out of it or the circumstances that led to that situation. Each of these boards is unique, so I don't think one blanket plan can cover them all. So each of them are expected to do their own operational plan.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Lafferty.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Leon Lafferty North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I didn't ask the Minister if he could do one blanket plan for everybody because we know the regions are different. The cost of providing services are different everywhere. Not everyone has low costs to go to the hospital for services like they do in the larger centres. So there is, of course, a big cost. We've identified that in 2000, ambulance services cost a lot for Rae-Edzo and the Dogrib Community Services Board. We knew that then. Why didn't we budget for that? Why three years later are we using the same excuse for supplementary funding? We should have dealt with that. Thank you.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Handley.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, we are working with the board. We want them to do that long-term operational plan. Once that's done, it will identify what the cost-drivers are like the ambulance services and so on and adjustments can be made. In the interim, what we are doing is providing them with some capital to keep their operations going, but we expect that long-term operational plan will help them put it together.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Lafferty.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Leon Lafferty North Slave

I just want to give the Minister advice that maybe he should be looking at it and giving them the funding that they need, whatever the problem is. It makes the authorities look bad when they have to come back to the House all the time for extra funding. There are a lot of responsible boards out there and when they come back for extra funding, at the fault of the department because they under-fund them, it looks bad for them. So we shouldn't be looking at this every year. We have people in place that should be able to help them with this funding. We are accurate to almost a penny when we see information here, but still we can't see the picture that we are under-funding them. It's hard to believe. Thank you.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Handley.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Yes, Mr. Chairman, and that's what the operational plan will help to clarify for us. Thank you.

Bill 32: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1293

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Health and Social Services, operations expenditure, ministry and corporate services, not previously authorized, $325,000.