This is page numbers 1355 - 1396 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was tlicho.

Topics

Further Return To Question 423-14(6): Main Street Paving Program
Question 423-14(6): Main Street Paving Program
Item 7: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Item 7, oral questions. Item 8, written questions. Colleagues, I'd like to draw your attention to the presence in the Speaker's Gallery of a former Member of the Legislative Assembly, the 9th Assembly representing North Slave, Mr. James Wah-shee.

---Applause

Item 8, written questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My written question this afternoon is for the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. Will the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation work with the chiefs of Yellowknives band, today known as the Rocher River people, considering opportunities he discussed yesterday related to the Taltson River hydro development? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to Opening Address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Clerk, I think you had one.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, I table a response to Petition 6-14(6) presented by the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta and responded to by the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment on the financial assistance of students in Aklavik.

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Ootes.

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled, "The GNWT Response to a Vision for the Arts in the Northwest Territories." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Motion 21 will remain on the Order Paper until tomorrow. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act; and Minister's Statement 89-14(6), Infrastructure Canada Commits $65 Million to NWT Resource Highways. By the authority given the Speaker by Motion 4-14(6) the House is resolved into Committee of the Whole to sit beyond the time of adjournment until the committee is prepared to report, with Mr. Krutko in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

October 8th, 2003

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

I'd like to call the Committee of the Whole to order. Item 19, consideration in Committee of the Whole and other matters. Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act, and Minister's Statement 89-14(6), Infrastructure Canada Commits $65 Million to NWT Resource Highways. I'd like to ask what the wish of the committee is. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that we proceed with Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Agreed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

We'll begin with Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act. At this time, I'd like to ask the Minister responsible for the bill if he has any opening comments. Mr. Antoine.

Minister's Opening Comments

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have opening comments. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First, I want to thank the Members of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight for referring Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act, to Committee of the Whole for consideration.

I'd like to take a little time to provide some context on how we have gotten to this point and deal with some specific issues concerning the legislation.

Mr. Chairman, there are three pieces of legislation required to be passed in the Legislative Assembly to give effect to the Tlicho agreement. The bill we are considering today, the Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act, and two other pieces of legislation will be considered in the next Legislative Assembly, the Tlicho Community Government Act and the Tlicho Community Service Agency Act.

Bill 34 approves and gives effect to the Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act. It gives effect to the Tlicho tax treatment agreement, provides a mechanism for the transfer of personal property and provides legal recognition of the Tlicho agreement, the Tlicho tax treatment agreement and Tlicho laws.

The Tlicho land claims and self-government agreement was signed by the three parties in Rae on August 25th, after more than 10 long, hard years of negotiation. In reality, the negotiation of this agreement took much longer if you take into account the time spent negotiating the Dene/Metis comprehensive claim. The work that went into the comprehensive claim and its ultimate breakdown was, in many ways, the origin of this claim. For the Tlicho this has been a long, difficult and expensive process as the negotiations of this agreement were financed by loans from the Government of Canada.

As you can appreciate, Mr. Chairman, there have been many important events and hard earned milestones on the way to this agreement for the Tlicho. The Tlicho people worked with their neighbours in Akaitcho and the Deh Cho to negotiate agreements that ensure that all parties' interests are protected in overlapping areas. These side agreements show that our people can collaborate to ensure that self-government and land claims agreements can be negotiated without compromising third-party interests.

This agreement is unique in that it's the only agreement that I am aware of that was initialed twice by the chief negotiators. After the first initialing last fall, the three parties undertook an unprecedented public review and comment period where they invited comments from all interested individuals and groups. More than 40 groups were directly invited to review the agreement and to comment. The public review and comment period built in a series of meetings with individual groups, including several public meetings on the agreement. This public review and comment period resulted in a number of changes to the agreement. More importantly, it provided an important and public opportunity for interested parties to raise any issues of concern.

At the end of this process, the agreement was initialed for a second time and the Tlicho people voted to ratify the agreement. A total of 93 percent of eligible Tlicho voters participated in the ratification process. Eighty-four percent of those voters were in favour of the agreement. I'm sure that you will agree, Mr. Chairman, that by any reasonable measure this is an overwhelming endorsement of the agreement.

For these reasons, the Tlicho are anxious to proceed with the steps necessary to get to the effective date. At this time, the Tlicho will begin to implement their agreement and move forward to secure a prosperous future for their people. They view this legislation as a critical and symbolic step in this process.

Mr. Chairman, this bill is also important for the implementation of the vision of the Northwest Territories that Members of this Legislative Assembly set out at the beginning of our term. Towards a Better Tomorrow is the framework that all of us agreed upon. It communicated our collective vision to all people in the Northwest Territories.

Towards a Better Tomorrow stated our commitment as a legislature to work in partnership with aboriginal governments so that aboriginal people would have greater self-determination over their social, cultural and political destiny.

One of our common strategies is to foster mutual, respectful and cooperative partnerships with aboriginal governments. We commit to supporting negotiation and implementation of land claims and self-government agreements. During the term of the 14th Assembly, we have made a lot of progress by supporting aboriginal people's desire to be full partners with us as independent governments and to work with us towards other important initiatives, such as devolution and resource revenue sharing.

The positive relationships that we have built with aboriginal groups over the past four years are extremely important. All of us, whether leaders at the territorial level or the self-government level, must continue to work hard on these positive relationships.

I believe that if we support this bill's passage during the 14th Assembly it will send a clear signal to aboriginal leaders that we are a legislature that supports self-government as we stated at the beginning of our term. It would further demonstrate that our commitment to partnerships on any initiatives goes hand in hand with our collective will to finalize self-government and land claims.

Concerns have been expressed by some MLAs that passing legislation to give effect to the Tlicho agreement will change the entire system of governance in the Northwest Territories. In many ways, Mr. Chairman, our system of governance in the Northwest Territories is constantly changing. These changes will be slow and incremental, as we move forward with new governance arrangements in all regions. The bill we are considering today is one step in this process.

In considering this bill and the Tlicho agreement, it is important to point out that the agreement applies to people on Tlicho lands or living in Tlicho communities. The agreement ensures that all people in the Tlicho region, whether they are Tlicho citizens or not, will receive comparable levels of programs and services.

Mr. Chairman, the community governments that will be established on the effective date will represent both Tlicho and non-Tlicho citizens. The Tlicho community services agencies that will be established pursuant to territorial legislation will deliver programs and services for all residents during the first 10 years of the agreement and possibly longer. These are the examples of how our government and aboriginal governments can work in collaboration to ensure the interests of all people are protected.

Also, we should remember that all residents of the Tlicho are and will continue to be protected by the Constitution and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Given this agreement, constitutional protection does not take away individual rights within our society. Furthermore, there are specific provisions in the Tlicho agreement that protect the existing and future rights of other aboriginal peoples.

I know there have been concerns raised by the North Slave Metis Alliance with respect to their rights. In an ideal world, Mr. Chairman, all negotiations would proceed at the same pace and result in agreements at the same time. This, unfortunately, is not the case. To ensure that processes are not held up, we must look for ways to protect the rights of other aboriginal people as agreements are being completed. We believe that section 2.7 of the Tlicho agreement provides the specific guarantees that ensure the protection of rights of other aboriginal peoples.

Mr. Chairman, we're asking Members of this Legislative Assembly to pass the Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act. It is another signal of our commitment to ensure aboriginal people have greater self-determination over their social, cultural and political destiny. This agreement and legislation to approve it is an important step in this process.

I say all this to provide some context behind a decision to support the Tlicho in their aspirations and to move forward with this legislation during the 14th Assembly. This legislation is an important first step in implementation of the Tlicho agreement and one that we hope Members will support.

As someone who has been personally involved in the negotiation process since its very early stages, I believe the Tlicho agreement has set a new standard for land and self-government claims across the country. I firmly believe it is good for the Tlicho and good for the Northwest Territories. Mahsi cho, Mr. Chairman.

---Applause

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. At this time, I would like to ask the committee responsible for reviewing the bill if they have any comments. Mr. Dent.

Standing Committee On Accountability And Oversight Comments

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight has been considering Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act and due to the limited time remaining in the life of this Assembly has adopted a motion to report it back to the House for consideration in Committee of the Whole. Members look forward to a public discussion of Bill 34 with the Minister during the Committee of the Whole review.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Dent. At this time, I would like to ask the Minister if he would like to bring in any witnesses.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Does the committee agree the Minister bring in his witnesses?

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort in the witnesses.

Mr. Minister, please introduce your witnesses, for the record.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, I have with me Rick Bargery, deputy minister of Aboriginal Affairs. Because of the speed in which this is going, there are two other members of my team who will be showing up later.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

For the record, Mr. Minister, could you mention those two other individuals when they do come into the House?

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes, Mark Aitken, legislative counsel from the Department of Justice; and, Martin Goldney, also legal counsel for the Department of Justice. Thank you.

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. We are dealing with Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claim and Self-Government Agreement Act. General comments. Mr. Roland.

General Comments

Bill 34: Tlicho Land Claims And Self-government Agreement Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we've heard in the very brief report from the committee that Members felt that with the time remaining in the life of this Assembly and with this bill reaching second reading and being referred to committee, that there wasn't enough time to hold hearings throughout communities in the Northwest Territories that could be affected by this legislation. So it was felt that we come to this arena, to the floor in Committee of the Whole and have our questions and concerns answered by the Minister in this forum. I look at it from this perspective, my constituents back home can have an opportunity to hear responses from the government and areas of concern that I think would be of concern to them. I would like to let the Minister know that depending on the responses he would provide for at least myself, it will affect the way I vote on this bill. I did say during second reading, I supported the principle of the bill. I think it's something that all aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories are working on and have spent many years trying to accomplish. There are many arguments why it's seen as the best thing for people across the Northwest Territories.

I, myself, coming from the Inuvialuit region, they are in negotiations and working towards their end of a self-government agreement with this government as well. So as we heard the Minister say, this agreement is the first of its kind and, in fact, is trend-setting, I guess one can say. It is setting the scale and pace of future change of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Chairman, I will, when we get into the detail, have some further questions for the Minister, but wanted to, for the record, state in this process, that hopefully as we question the Minister, people across the North will see this as an opportunity and hopefully as Members address questions, they will see it as a way of addressing their concerns that, unfortunately, we weren't able to get from the public as we didn't go through communities. One of the things the Minister stated and referred to and I will have some questions later on is the Constitution of Canadians and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and asking how it would impact or benefit citizens who are not Tlicho citizens who are not in that settlement area and how that would guarantee their inclusion when it comes to how individuals are selected and represented on the councils.

We've heard in this House before, Mr. Chairman, how this was a very straightforward piece of legislation and there's nothing much to it. I don't have the exact wording but the Premier spoke to this a number of days ago. It may be a short bill in conjunction of other bills when we do a comparison. Thirteen clauses is not a lot, but this is a very significant piece of legislation. As the Minister stated, much work has been put into this. At the same time as a representative who is representing a public government and my community is multicultural, I feel that I must also represent those in my constituency in the way I would ask questions of how this might potentially impact those who wouldn't feel that they were part of a self-government group. I hope the Minister would have some responses that would sway me in a way of supporting this through third reading.

We've also had a number of other concerns, and the Minister touched on them slightly from the Metis group; concerns about how their issues are being addressed or not being addressed. Hopefully the Minister will be able to address those concerns to the satisfaction of Members. I guess from there, Mr. Chairman, I don't have a lot of other general comments. It's just more of the specifics depending on the responses from the Minister and see where we go. Thank you.