This is page numbers 645 - 700 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Revenues, recoveries and transfer payments.

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

Go back to page 5-7, department summary, Public Works and Services, operations expense, total operations expense, $44.218 million.

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Asset Management

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Cap 7, Public Works and Services, capital acquisition plan, asset management, $200,000.

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Systems And Communications

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Systems and communications, $320,000.

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Petroleum Products

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Petroleum products, $923,000.

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Total department, $1.443 million.

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

The Chair Leon Lafferty

Does the committee agree the Department of Public Works and Services is concluded?

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 676

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Leon Lafferty

I would like to thank the Minister and his staff.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 11th, 2003

Page 677

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

The next department to deal with is the Housing Corporation. At this time, I would like to ask the Minister responsible if he has any opening comments. Mr. Allen.

Minister's Opening Comments

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roger Allen

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to present the 2003-2004 budget for the NWT Housing Corporation. Mr. Chairman, as this will be the last budget of the 14th Legislative Assembly, I would like to take this opportunity to look at some of our accomplishments as well as the plans to ensure we continue to address the housing needs of our residents.

Mr. Chairman, we have requested a total contribution of $52.971 million, which represents an increase of eight percent over the corporation's 2002-2003 allocation. Including other revenue sources of $47.263 million, the corporation will spend over $100 million on housing in the NWT this year. This figure includes contributions from our federal funding partner, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation.

The contributions outlined in these estimates will allow the Housing Corporation to work towards fulfilling the affordable housing strategy, which provides for suitable, adequate and affordable housing for all NWT residents. The Housing Corporations' affordable housing strategy aims to create approximately 780 new homes for low to moderate income families across the NWT over the next five years. Mr. Chairman, this year alone the Housing Corporation has completed 652 projects of which 205 were projects that put families into new homes, and 447 repair projects. In addition, we have completed 243 service maintenance calls to low income seniors and disabled families to ensure their homes are operating safely and efficiently. The corporation also provides stronger supports to private market developers to assist with the development of additional market rental and homeownership homes. These steps will provide much needed support to build housing infrastructure to keep pace with the current cycle of economic expansion.

Mr. Chairman, the Housing Corporation has developed specific goals and strategies to assist with the expansion of private housing by working with the private sector to establish an environment that encourages the construction of new private housing. An example of this includes recent changes to our guarantee on interim financing program that now provides guarantees to lending institutions for developers that have a 10 percent equity position for new home construction and 15 percent on new rental unit construction. Mr. Chairman, this is a substantial reduction from the previous 25 percent equity requirement and the corporation has also reduced its fee for this service from 1.5 percent to only half a percent.

Mr. Chairman, the NWT Housing Corporation has taken the lead on the issue of homelessness. The corporation led a GNWT interdepartmental working group to address homelessness and completed a comprehensive strategy, which I am now reviewing with my Cabinet colleagues. It is important to note that the Housing Corporation has set aside $500,000 for the funding to address this serious issue in the upcoming year.

The estimates also include new funding to address disparities amongst what the corporation has identified as the critical six communities. What this means is that six communities have been identified as substantially further behind in their housing development and overall housing need than other NWT communities. They include the communities of Lutselk'e, Hay River Reserve, Fort Providence, Fort Liard, Wha Ti and Fort Good Hope. Mr. Chairman, it is hoped that by focusing the much needed $1.7 million to catch up funding towards these communities, we will be able to make a real difference in addressing housing needs to similar levels as other communities across the NWT.

Finally, Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to report that the NWT Housing Corporation continues to forge new partnerships and joint projects with community and aboriginal development corporations. The Housing Corporation is completing the final stages of its universal partnership agreement that provides for substantially greater decision-making authority at the community level. Mr. Chairman, both the joint ventures and the new universal partnership agreement will go a long way to give our communities and aboriginal groups the tools they need to help solve their housing problems in the community and by the community.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to conclude by saying that funding provided to the NWT Housing Corporation will be well spent, creating solutions to the housing issues that our territory and our residents face in the upcoming year. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This concludes my remarks.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

I would like to ask the committee responsible for reviewing this department if they have any comments. I will call on Mr. Bell.

Standing Committee On Social Programs Comments

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

The Standing Committee on Social Programs met on January 16, 2003 to consider the main estimates for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Since reviewing the corporation's 2003-2004 proposed budget during the review of the 2003-2006 business plans in September of 2002, the standing committee noted a $747,000 increase in the amortization estimate, as well as a $1.72 million increase relating to the community development action plan which will help address serious housing issues in Lutselk'e, Hay River Reserve, Fort Providence, Fort Liard, Wha Ti and Fort Good Hope.

Accountability And Universal Partnership Agreements

Members of the Standing Committee on Social Programs have many concerns with how the NWT Housing Corporation, NWTHC, will monitor programs and services delivered by local housing authorities, LHAs, under universal partnership agreements, UPA.

While supportive of the concept of empowerment and allowing LHAs to make their own choices in how to deliver housing programs in their communities, there needs to be systems in place to ensure public money is being spent effectively.

Past experiences suggest there needs to be an emphasis placed on the inspection of new construction and renovations. Members are aware of serious deficiencies in the construction and maintenance of social housing units. In some cases the same LHA or development corporation that constructed or renovated the social housing unit was also responsible for signing off on the unit as complete. This is unacceptable to committee members.

The NWTHC spends a significant amount of money per social housing unit because of the high cost of construction and materials in the North. To ensure value for money, it is essential an efficient inspection program be in place.

In discussion with the Minister and his officials, committee members were informed that part of the annual audited financial statements included the auditor verifying work was accomplished by taking a representative sample.

For example, members note an auditor would be qualified to ask a social housing client whether the LHA added a porch to their unit. The auditor would not be qualified to determine whether the porch was properly tied to the rest of the structure, whether sufficient insulation was placed in the floors and walls and whether the porch was adequately blocked or pinned to bedrock.

In response to a question asked during the business plan review, the NWTHC stated that the corporation usually conducts interim and final inspections on construction projects. Committee members were concerned with the use of the word "usually". It seems to imply there is an ad hoc approach to ensuring the terms of construction contracts are fulfilled and that the NWTHC is receiving value for money.

During the business plan review, the Standing Committee on Social Programs questioned the need for the Housing Corporation. If the corporation's focus is on developing community capacity through the development of such mechanisms as universal partnership agreements, it stands to reason there should be an oversight function as part of the process.

Members believe the Housing Corporation is evolving into a funding mechanism for local housing authorities to ensure the orderly flow of funding from Canada Mortgage and Housing and the territorial government to the communities. The committee questioned whether this function could be accomplished through the use of a shell corporation administered through a government department and has asked that the future of the Housing Corporation be examined as part of the transition planning to the 15th Assembly of the Legislative Assembly.

Prior to the adoption of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, Members of the Legislative Assembly were kept well informed of the activities of the NWT Housing Corporation within their constituencies.

The members of the committee understand the need to protect the privacy of persons accessing social housing, but would point out that the total lack of information now available to members hampers their ability to monitor the activities of the Housing Corporation and represent the interests of their constituents.

There is an unnecessary amount of time being spent on verifying information provided to members by their constituents with officials of the Housing Corporation. Members of the committee also believe the NWTHC is wasting valuable resources on determining the amount or type of information they can release to Members involved in constituency work.

The committee appreciated the commitment of the Minister and his officials to work on a protocol that will allow for the release of information to the Members of the Assembly in a timely manner that respects the privacy of the client and addresses the needs of the Members.

Harmonization Strategy

The Standing Committee on Social Programs notes harmonization of the way income is calculated by the Department of Education, Culture and Employment's income support division and the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation will become effective on April 1, 2003.

Members are pleased this oft-delayed initiative is being implemented and believe the new system provides for the equitable treatment of all residents of social housing. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment and the NWT Housing Corporation are to be commended for their efforts in ensuring the development of an equitable program.

There will be glitches as this program is implemented. The Housing Corporation is encouraged to work with clients to mitigate the effects on their households.

Regional Reorganization And The Housing Corporation

Members note the NWT Housing Corporation reorganized their regional structures from three regions to five districts aligned with land claims two years ago.

The standing committee is not opposed to regional reorganization but are concerned with the apparently ad hoc approach and the lack of coordination, planning and direction provided by Cabinet to the departments.

It is obvious that regional reorganization, whether official or ad hoc, has cost implications to this government. If the purpose is to align the administrative structures of the departments with land claim agreements, the associated costs must be part of self-government negotiations with the federal government and should not be absorbed by the GNWT.

This concern was passed on to the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight and was subsequently relayed to the Minister of Finance for a response.

The Minister's response indicates the government would be analyzing incremental costs and entering into negotiations with the federal government for funding to address these costs.

The committee hopes the government's optimism is justified. Mr. Chairman, at this point, I would like to turn over to my colleague, the Member for Hay River South.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Continue, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Software Development Costs And Marketing

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. During the business plan review, members questioned an apparent focus on the marketing of the Housing Corporation's Maintenance Management Operating System, or MMOS, a proprietary software program.

Members found this focus somewhat disturbing, given the belief the core business of the Housing Corporation should be to provide and help in the development of affordable housing for Northerners.

The information provided by the Housing Corporation indicates they expect to recover all of their software development and marketing costs in the very near future.

Members are willing to give limited support for the marketing of the MMOS program with the understanding that the primary focus of the Housing Corporation should be on building housing and supporting the development of the housing industry.

Collection Strategy On Mortgage Arrears

The lack of a cohesive collection strategy for mortgages in arrears held by the NWT Housing Corporation was the subject of comment by the federal Auditor General in last year's report on other matters.

Past practices did not allow for timely collection or establish a consistent process to deal with mortgages that are in arrears.

Information provided by the corporation, subsequent to our meeting on the draft main estimates, indicates a strategy has been implemented to ensure timely payment of mortgages and which also recognizes that some people's circumstances have changed, meaning they can no longer pay their mortgage.

The committee did have concerns with the communication component of the new collections strategy. The Housing Corporation needs to provide written explanations for the new policies, as well as the individual counselling proposed in the strategy.

The strategy is to concentrate on those clients who have the financial wherewithal to address their mortgage arrears and not on those clients whose circumstances have changed.

Somba K'e Healing Centre

Members of the Standing Committee on Social Programs have expressed concern in the past with the fate of this former Northern Addictions Services facility.

The Housing Corporation has been, in effect, subsidizing the operation of a facility which does not deliver any programming on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Members also note the facility has been underutilized by the present operator and, given the fact they recently lost a service contract with Corrections Canada, there is no reasonable hope of meeting ongoing operating costs.

The standing committee believes the NWT Housing Corporation has been more than accommodating in their attempts to help the operators of the Somba K'e Healing Centre maintain a viable operation.

The reality is this facility is secured through a mortgage to the NWT Housing Corporation. The mortgage was originally provided because the facility would have some benefit to the residents of the Northwest Territories. There is no reason the Housing Corporation should continue subsidizing in the absence of any tangible benefit to residents of the NWT.

The Standing Committee on Social Programs is pleased with the Minister's commitment to work with the Department of Health and Social Services to determine the best utilization for the Somba K'e Healing Centre, including the possibility of using it as a new Territorial Treatment Centre for Youth.

Transitional Housing, Residency And Program Eligibility

Members of the Standing Committee on Social Programs note there are policy gaps that need to be addressed on a pan-territorial basis to ensure that all residents have equitable access to social housing.

The Transitional Housing Program in Yellowknife is designed to help people without accommodation make the transition from outright homelessness into adequate and appropriate housing.

The paradox is that, because these people in transitional housing are deemed to be in adequate housing, they do not qualify for social housing under the point system used to determine program eligibility. The present low vacancy rate in Yellowknife and the resultant slowdown in turnover of social housing units further compound this situation.

It is obvious there needs to be minor tweaking of the transitional housing program and the program eligibility point system to actually let people make the transition into public housing where appropriate.

In discussing this situation with the Minister, Members were concerned to hear there was no overall territorial policy on eligibility for social housing, particularly as it relates to residency requirements and that each local housing authority establishes its own residency requirements. In some communities, you have to wait two years to be eligible for social housing. In Yellowknife, you are eligible in six months if you are from the Territories and nine months if you are not.

Residents of a community should not be penalized for leaving their home communities for education or economic opportunities by being denied access to social housing on their return.

Members of the standing committee believe there needs to be a consistent policy on residency requirements across the Territories that assures residents of equitable access to social housing while respecting the mobility rights guaranteed under the Charter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 679

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you. At this time, I would like to ask the Minister if he would be bringing in any witnesses. Mr. Allen.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roger Allen

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I will be.

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Does the committee agree that the Minister bring in his witnesses?

NWT Housing Corporation
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed