This is page numbers 891 - 922 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

Topics

Members Present

Honourable Brendan Bell, Mr. Braden, Honourable Paul Delorey, Honourable Charles Dent, Mrs. Groenewegen, Honourable Joe Handley, Mr. Hawkins, Honourable David Krutko, Ms. Lee, Honourable Michael McLeod, Mr. Menicoche, Honourable Michael Miltenberger, Mr. Pokiak, Mr. Ramsay, Honourable Floyd Roland, Mr. Villeneuve, Mr. Yakeleya, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Speaker's Ruling
Item 1: Prayer

Page 891

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Good afternoon, Members. Before we proceed at this time, I would like to provide my ruling on the point of order raised on Tuesday, October 19, 2004, by the Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Mrs. Groenewegen rose on a point of order during question period after a question and answer exchange between the Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya, and the Minister of Transportation, the Honourable Michael McLeod. Mrs. Groenewegen's point is that the Minister, in responding to a question, was making reference to confidential proceedings in a standing committee and, in doing so, was inferring committee compliance with certain government initiatives. I quote the Member for Hay River South, page 1885 of the unedited Hansard: "I just wanted to raise a point of order that when Ministers share information with standing committees like GED or the Social Programs committee, that we are obliged to keep that information to ourselves and not to raise it in direct reference in the House in order to obtain information about future years' plans. I want to raise this because Minister McLeod was just referencing the plan and decisions of his department. He made reference to the fact that these were discussed with the GED and the GED approved them, and it makes it sound as if this was done at the initiative of a standing committee, as opposed to the department. We share information in the standing committees, but referring to decisions in direct reference to consultation of information that happened and communication that happened within the standing committee is inappropriate in the House."

In addressing this matter, I have reviewed unedited Hansard from October 19, 2004, in particular Mr. McLeod's response to Mr. Yakeleya on page 1883 and 1884, which gives rise to Mrs. Groenewegen's point of order. "Mr. Speaker, we have plans to invest $40 million into the Sahtu roads. We have met with the GED committee and they have advised us that some of our investments should be moved. This year we decided to move $1 million out of the Sahtu, we also are planning to move money out of the Ingraham Trail program into Highway No. 1."

In stating her point of order, I note that Mrs. Groenewegen did not identify which rule of the House the Minister infringed upon. In fact, strictly speaking, we do not have a particular rule stating that Members shall not refer to in camera committee discussions in the House. However, I draw Members' attention to Rule 2(g) of the rules of the Legislative Assembly which states that, "point of order means any departure from any written or unwritten rule or custom of this Assembly or of parliamentary tradition." In this instance, the House is governed by its own precedence and long-standing parliamentary traditions and conventions.

In terms of precedence, I am guided by a ruling by Speaker Whitford on February 14, 2001, in which he rules: "It is an infringement of our rules and contrary to parliamentary practice for Members to refer to committee proceedings that have not been reported to this House. Specifically, I want to caution Members about making reference to what may or may not have been said or who may or may not have been in attendance in any proceedings or events outside of this House."

I am also guided by page 885 of Marleau and Montpetit House of Commons Procedures and Practices: "It is not in order for Members to allude to committee proceedings or evidence in the House until the committee has presented its report to the House. This restriction applies to both references made by Members in debate or during oral question period."

In this matter, Mr. McLeod is relating information respecting the plans of his department. He is certainly permitted to do so. He alluded to advice he received from the GED committee on proposed expenditures for roads in the Sahtu and throughout the territory.

It is relevant in this case to determine whether the advice Minister McLeod is referring to is specifically included in a committee report that has been tabled in this House. In reviewing the public reports of the GED committee, I can find no specific reference to the advice Minister McLeod referred to in the House on Tuesday. While the committee's Report on the Review of the 2004-2005 Draft Main Estimates does make reference to general discussion in committee about the allocation of transportation funding, there is no clear and specific reference to the Minister having received advice on the matters he referred to in the House on Tuesday. I can thus only conclude that any discussion must have taken place at an in camera meeting of the committee and was not specifically included in its report to the House. Therefore, I find that the Member for Hay River South does have a point of order.

As a cautionary note, I would like to take this opportunity to review a number of matters with all Members. While this matter has been addressed by way of a point or order, breaches of committee confidentiality can also constitute a breach of privilege, if raised as such. I again refer to Marleau and Montpetit from page 838 of their House of Commons Procedures and Practices, and I quote: "Divulging any part of the proceeding of an in camera committee meeting has been ruled by the Speaker to constitute a prima facie matter of privilege."

As your Speaker, I have noted a number of occasions during the 15th Assembly that Members, both Ministers and Regular Members, have inadvertently referred to standing committee business and issues in the course of debate and in question period. In some instances, the issues had been previously reported from committee, but often that has not been the case. Now that the matter has been raised and all Members are aware that such references are a serious transgression, I know my caution will be taken to heart.

I can also understand that often it is not clear what references are allowed and which are not. Certainly, when discussing multi-year planning initiatives, some of the information related to past or current years is likely public knowledge, whereas future plans and initiatives may not be. Clearly, the government has the prerogative to disclose matters not yet public as they see fit, even if these matters have been discussed with committee in camera. However, neither Ministers nor Regular Members are permitted to allude to in camera committee proceedings or evidence until the committee has included these proceedings in its report to the House.

As the current point of order illustrates, this is obviously a very difficult distinction to make in many cases, and it is not one the Chair can be expected to be aware of in all instances. Therefore, Members on both sides of the House have a duty to ensure that they are mindful of the rules about confidential information and are respectful of one another at all times. This is one of those areas where it might be prudent to err on the side of caution so that the privileges of all Members, individually and collectively, are protected.

Thank you, Members. Before I go on, I would like to draw your attention to the visitor's gallery. I would like to draw your attention to the presence of Captain Tony Evans of the HMCS Yellowknife.

---Applause

With Captain Evans is the HMCS sponsor, Pat McMahon.

---Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Bell.

Minister's Statement 59-15(3): Mackenzie Gas Project
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 892

Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to provide Members with an update on the Mackenzie gas project and our ongoing preparations for this exciting development project.

As the Premier stated in his sessional statement at the opening of the session, the Mackenzie gas project is a key to the long-term strategic interests of the Northwest Territories and the socioeconomic future of our territory. The Government of the Northwest Territories remains committed to this project, to the joint panel process established to review it and to ensuring that northerners fully benefit from this development.

The proposed Mackenzie gas project is an ambitious project that includes: natural gas gathering facilities in the Mackenzie Delta, a gas processing plant near Inuvik and natural gas and gas liquid pipelines down the Mackenzie Valley to bring the production to market.

With the filing of the environmental impact statement and associated federal regulatory applications by the project proponents, the scope of the project has now been clearly defined and the formal approval process for the project has been set in motion.

The environmental impact statement is a large and complex document, totalling several thousand pages. Our focus in the short term is ensuring that we can conduct a full and thorough review of this document. To take advantage of the expertise that exists within both the GNWT and federal governments, we are working with our federal partners to establish a series of teams to review specific aspects of the filing. We have also established internal committees to coordinate the review and approval of interventions related to the socioeconomic and environmental mandates of this government.

The Joint Cabinet/Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight Pipeline Planning Committee, established to provide advice and guidance to the government on the Mackenzie gas project, has met to consider how we can best prepare for this project. The work of the joint committee will focus on the issues, interests and priorities we must consider in our planning and preparation for this project.

As noted earlier, this government is committed to ensuring that northerners fully benefit from this project. One mechanism to ensure this occurs is through the negotiation of meaningful socioeconomic agreements with the proponents. Over the coming months, the joint committee will consider and advise on the priority areas that we believe must be addressed in these agreements. These priorities include employment and training, infrastructure, social impacts, community capacity and economic opportunities.

The proposed Mackenzie gas project has the potential to create enormous economic opportunities and benefits for the Northwest Territories. We are committed to ensuring that NWT residents can take advantage of these opportunities and that the proposed Mackenzie gas project is undertaken in a manner that is both environmentally and economically sustainable over the long term.

Mr. Speaker, this government is committed to these objectives, and we are taking the necessary steps to ensure that they will be achieved. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 59-15(3): Mackenzie Gas Project
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 892

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Labour Standards Act lays out employment standards for non-unionized businesses in the territory. It was first enacted in 1968 and was based on legislation in effect across Canada. It has been amended over the

years on a piecemeal basis and now the act is disjointed and at times difficult to interpret.

The Department of Justice has initiated a review of the legislation and later today, at the appropriate time, I will table the document: Renewing the Labour Standards Act of the Northwest Territories: A Consultation Paper.

Mr. Speaker, in this consultation paper, the department has identified proposed directions for reforming the act. Employers or employees are directly affected by this legislation and will be impacted by changes that might be made. This consultation is an opportunity for all who are interested to participate in the review of this important legislation.

The consultation paper contains a brief summary of the major components of employment standards legislation, proposes directions for change and poses questions for discussion.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Justice wants to hear from employees, employers and interested residents on the specific proposals and questions raised in the consultation paper. As well, any other comments or suggestions about employment standards in the Northwest Territories will be welcomed.

Copies of the consultation document are available by contacting the Department of Justice or visiting the website at www.justice.gov.nt.ca. Copies of the consultation paper are also being sent to unions, chambers of commerce and employers' groups.

Mr. Speaker, after the consultation process is completed, the Government of the Northwest Territories will review the comments and decide whether to proceed with reform of the legislation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I am pleased to provide Members with an update on the recent appointment of Mr. Jim Antoine as the pan-northern ambassador for the 2007 Canada Winter Games that will take place from February 24 to March 10, 2007 in Whitehorse, Yukon.

---Applause

2007 will mark the 40th anniversary of the Canada Winter Games. Nearly 4,000 athletes, coaches and officials and many thousands of other spectators and media from every part of Canada will travel to Whitehorse to experience the North during the games.

With the announcement of Mr. Antoine as the pan-northern ambassador, the three territorial Premiers and the Whitehorse Host Society are recognizing that this event will be a unique opportunity to showcase the Yukon, Nunavut and the Northwest Territories and the many things we have to offer the rest of Canada.

Initially, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Antoine's work will include coordinating the development of a pan-territorial agreement on a range of potential joint projects. These may include:

  • • a national marketing campaign featuring territorial tourism, cultural and economic development opportunities;
  • • a pan-northern torch relay;
  • • joint sport development programs for athletes, coaches and officials;
  • • joint promotion of northern artists and their works; and,
  • • television coverage of territorial athletes and performers.

Once agreement is reached on the joint projects, Mr. Antoine will lead officials from the three jurisdictions in implementing them over the next two-and-a-half years.

Mr. Chair, I had the opportunity to meet with Mr. Antoine earlier this week and I can report that he is very enthusiastic about this opportunity and is committed to working hard to help all three territories reap the benefits of this great event.

2007 will be the first time the Canada Winter Games have been held north of 60, and will also be the last Canada Winter Games before the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver/Whistler.

Promoting the games will provide our territory with an opportunity to develop coaches, officials and athletes with a view to maximum northern participation at the 2010 Winter Olympics.

To do this successfully will require an investment and the three territorial governments will be seeking out partnerships as a way to realize our goals. The pan-northern ambassador will be approaching the private sector, including businesses and corporations in all three territories, to support this initiative. Mr. Speaker, we encourage all northern companies to work with us to make this event a success.

With his distinguished career as a former Member of this Assembly, a former Premier, a former chief and a prominent hockey player, Mr. Antoine will make a unique contribution to the success of the 2007 Canada Winter Games. I am very pleased that he has agreed to help all northerners take advantage of this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. I am sure I speak for all Members of this House on congratulating Mr. Antoine on that appointment.

Before I go on, I would like to draw attention to the presence in the Speaker's Gallery of Mr. Tony Whitford, former Speaker of the House.

---Applause

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to talk about the real and lasting benefits that need to be realized from resource development in the Northwest Territories.

Everyone knows that economic activity associated with a project of the magnitude of the Mackenzie gas pipeline is enormous. It would be the envy of any jurisdiction to experience the contracts, the jobs and the boom of such a development. Mr. Speaker, we, as northern leaders, representing the interests of our constituents, cannot be nearsighted. We cannot succumb to the temptation to support development that in the short time, on the good side, will supply us with business, service, transportation, exploration and value-added sectors, but in the long term, will leave us beholden to the goodness of the government-of-the-day in Ottawa for years to come.

We are understandably interested in ensuring that we are poised to benefit from these activities, but can be assured through things such as a sound socioeconomic agreement. It's the challenge of managing megaprojects and resource development to realize benefits along the way. We are poised and ready to participate in everything from pipe coating to the transportation of tons of materials and supplies needed to build a pipeline. I know the businesses in my riding that I represent are preparing for and anticipating the needs of industry but, Mr. Speaker, there is a bigger picture and it would be irresponsible of this government to ignore that bigger picture.

After the boom of construction, there has to be a lasting residual benefit and a legacy to Northerners. That piece is a rightful and fair share of royalties.

---Applause

Without the underpinning of near-term predictable revenues from royalties, our ability as northern governments to provide program services and infrastructure is going to be seriously limited. We have already invested a huge amount in preparation for this pipeline and we have done it on our limited resources. Projecting into future needs based on the impact of population growth, social challenges and infrastructure demands, we are going to be seriously fiscally challenged. We need a vision and leadership that is farsighted.

The folly of being nearsighted reminds me of a story in the Bible in the Old Testament about two brothers. The older brother was entitled to his birthright, but because he'd come in from the land and he was so hungry, he gave up his inheritance for a small bowl of soup. Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent from my colleagues to conclude my statement.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mrs. Groenewegen, you may conclude your statement.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. As I said, the older brother came in from the land. He was so hungry that he quickly gave up his inheritance for a bowl of soup, which satisfied his temporary needs. He later tried to recover it as he wept with bitter tears, but it was too late. Just as the resources of Alberta belonged to and benefited Albertans, a fair share of the non-renewable resources of the NWT belong to Northerners and the governments that represent them.

---Applause

The land and the resources on and under that land are the inheritance of Northerners, and that, Mr. Speaker, is not negotiable. When Premier Handley and Minister Roland go to Ottawa, take this message: We were not elected to sell out the inheritance of this generation or generations to come. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is going to focus on an issue that I've raised in the House before and one that I am very interested in seeing addressed. The issue is the establishment of a permanent trust fund for the benefit of all residents of the Northwest Territories.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, as we are all well aware, the Northwest Territories is on the verge of the development of a Mackenzie Valley pipeline. Our government is spending a tremendous amount of money, time and energy on ensuring that we are ready for this megaproject, but the fact still remains that Ottawa will stand to reap the lion's share of royalties from this pipeline. Over a 30-year period, it amounts to over $21 billion. Over that same 30-year period, the Northwest Territories will receive $900 million. It just does not make sense. It does not make sense that we do not have a fair resource royalty deal with Ottawa. Why can't Ottawa start putting money away for us into a permanent trust fund so that all northerners will benefit? I'm tired of hearing why they can't. I want someone in Ottawa to tell us how it can happen.

The resources here are our resources. We deserve and must demand action from Ottawa. The state of Alaska, which has a population of over 600,000 people, has a permanent trust fund and, each year, pays a dividend to every Alaskan. It varies from year to year, Mr. Speaker, from $1,300 to $2,200. Imagine for a minute what a trust fund like the one in Alaska could do for us in the Northwest Territories where our population is just 43,000 persons. What an incentive for persons looking to move here -- teachers, nurses, doctors -- and those who are here would like to stay a little bit longer if we had something like that. It would be a bonus for living here, and the beauty of it is that everyone, aboriginal and non-aboriginal alike, would benefit.

I know the Premier and the government continue their discussions with Ottawa, and everyone is hoping and

praying a deal can be struck. Until then, it is my contention that we don't take no for an answer from Ottawa and that we demand resource royalties be put in trust until a fair solution and agreement can be agreed upon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Pokiak.

Calvin Pokiak

Calvin Pokiak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given the recent application by Imperial Oil and the Aboriginal Pipeline Group to construct a Mackenzie Valley gas pipeline and the formation of a joint review panel, it is imperative that this government maximize the amount of available training so that residents are ready for the jobs that will be available.

Past experiences with Dome Petroleum and the construction of the Norman Wells pipeline in particular have shown the Northwest Territories to lack qualified residents and the necessary infrastructure to meet the needs of the oil and gas industry. Sadly, Mr. Speaker, most of the jobs associated with these two projects went to southern Canadians. Mr. Speaker, with the pipeline project beginning its regulatory pace, it is now time for this government to prepare our people for the many jobs in construction or maintaining the pipeline.

We have $15 million for the Aboriginal Skills Employment Partnership Program. We must, in all regions, start training our people. In the Beaufort-Delta, there is talk of a new Aurora College training centre. There is also talk of building a students' residence to accommodate students from Beaufort-Delta who may be taking training in oil and gas.

Mr. Speaker, there is a solution to the dilemma of available training and accommodation space. In my home town of Tuktoyaktuk, we do have the facilities to accommodate up to 40 students. I speak of the two industrial camps. If the Department of Education, Culture and Employment and the board of governors of Aurora College can allocate some of the available training money sooner rather than later, we could have residents ready for meaningful employment in the construction and ongoing maintenance of the pipeline.

Once again, Mr. Speaker, if we are to realize a net benefit from resource development, I will emphasize that time is of the essence. Let's get moving on training our people so that this opportunity does not pass us by. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Villeneuve.

Robert Villeneuve

Robert Villeneuve Tu Nedhe

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Today I rise to talk about some of the important environmental concerns related to the Mackenzie gas project.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot fully express the importance of the Mackenzie Valley with regards to the cultural connection it makes between people from the Deh Cho, the Gwich'in, the Sahtu, and the Inuvialuit. Mr. Speaker, the Mackenzie Valley contains one of the world's last great free-running river systems, the Mackenzie River. Aside from being the longest river in Canada, and the Mackenzie Delta being the largest delta in Canada and the second-largest wetland in Canada, the river also plays a significant role in regulating the circulation of the world's oceans and climate systems. Northern development, the magnitude and the scale of the Mackenzie gas megaproject, will have significant impact leading to the destruction and displacement of wildlife habitat, the fragmentation of migration routes for all of our waterfowl and the disruption of northern harvesting practices and traditions, just to name a few, no matter how many precautionary measures or regulatory regimes are put in place for their protection.

Mr. Speaker, as you and my colleagues may well be aware, there have been conservation efforts and commitments by this government and the federal government in developing a strategy which includes initiatives regarding the protection of a network of culturally and ecologically-significant areas which will be affected by the development of natural resources. I would still like to stress the utmost importance of assuring the people of the Northwest Territories, Canada, and even the world, that regardless of increasing developmental pressure and growing global demands for more environmentally-friendly forms of energy, we will not and cannot jeopardize the diversity and ecological integrity of our eco-regions strictly due to the fact that we owe it to our children, their children, and their children's children.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to end my statement with a quote from Alfred Taniton, an elder who met with the AOC members during our strategy session in Deline earlier this year. Mr. Taniton, with a short analogy, has always remained with me and surfaces in my mind every time the pipeline project is mentioned to me, and I hope that, by reiterating it today in the House, it will serve as a reminder to us all about the spiritual, cultural, traditional and integral relationship we have with our environment.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Mr. Villeneuve, your time for your Member's statement has expired.

Robert Villeneuve

Robert Villeneuve Tu Nedhe

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Villeneuve.

Robert Villeneuve

Robert Villeneuve Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to finish off my quote from the elder, Alfred Taniton. I quote, Mr. Speaker, "Mother earth and everything about her is as sensitive to developments and changes as humans are to illnesses and harm. When people scratch themselves and have their skin removed, it affects other parts of our body. Although time will eventually heal the wound, we are

always left with a scar which never goes away. This is what the pipeline will do to Mother Earth." Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to speak about the need for strong leadership at this crucial time in the Northwest Territories' history.

---Applause

Land claims up and down the valley are either completed or under negotiations. Self-government will soon be a reality in many regions, changing the political landscape of the Northwest Territories. Leaders of First Nations groups across the Northwest Territories are in a strong position to negotiate the terms and conditions of future resource development in the best interests of their people.

Mr. Speaker, the potential benefits of the pipeline are significant. The Mackenzie Valley gas pipeline is expected to bring about the largest economic boom in the history of the Northwest Territories. The economic benefits for the Northwest Territories, if this opportunity is managed correctly, are enormous. Exploration of diamonds and other minerals continues. No doubt, there are more large-scale mining projects in the future.

Mr. Speaker, we are a territory that is rich in resources, and yet many of our people are still struggling to make ends meet. This won't change unless we can work together to negotiate the very best possible deals with resource companies and with the Government of Canada. I read the following quote about leadership not too long ago, and it struck me as how fitting for this time in the history of the Northwest Territories. I quote, "I started with the premise that the function of leadership is to produce more leaders, not more followers." According to the premise of this quote, leadership in the Northwest Territories has done well over the last decade. There are now more leaders working in the best interest of the people of Northwest Territories than ever before. However, as we all move our agendas forward, it is crucial that we not allow ourselves to fall prey to divide-and-conquer tactics by outsiders. We might agree to disagree on some things, but we all have a common interest in making sure we, as northerners, are the primary beneficiaries of resource development.