This is page numbers 609 - 640 of the Hansard for the 15th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

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Further Return To Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, part of this process, which was supposed to be a good news story, was to recognize it. In many cases, there were incumbents in positions and incumbents who had been practising for years, incumbents with an often wide array of different training, education and skills. We want to recognize that. If my

memory serves me correctly, I made a commitment in this House last week that the intent is not to lay people off. We would have a grandfathering or arrangement here, as well as doing past learning assessments on incumbents. We are in the process with the community wellness workers, as well as the mental health workers, to look at those assessments and ensure that the incumbents are given the opportunity to upgrade and that their service, experience, their northern background and community experience is recognized in this mix. So, Mr. Speaker, there has been an intent to recognize that we have to be careful how we view this, and it makes no sense to bring in or try to find people from the South when the key to delivering these programs is going to have trained northerners to do that. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister brings up a few valid points. I guess if some of these positions are going to be grandfathered, there are no further issues with respect to those incumbents who could benefit from that. But as the Minister indicated, those people who are under community wellness worker training, that's one of the examples where it's working. My point is there is no training available to implement this program currently in place, and the suggestion being proposed by authorities that are responsible for implementing this is if you had someone who could do this job but doesn't meet the qualifications, bring us a proposal. My point is that that is a backwards way of doing it. I think the government should have looked into who is available out there, how many positions are we looking for, and how do we fill the gap? So I would like to ask the Minister if he has done any studies. What has the department done to look at what the needs are and what are the current incumbency rates and how does the department propose to fill the gaps? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Further Return To Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have developed a job description. It has been classified both in terms of the criteria for the qualifications, as well as the pay. We've also recognized that there is work to be done at the community level we've attempted to tie in to the broader strategy. We know that there are incumbents. We've been working through the authorities, and in a majority of areas this program was rolled out successfully. There is still work to be done and we are committed to working with the authorities and communities to ensure that we do that in a careful way of recognizing that there are people with communities in those positions who have provided a very valuable service all these years. It's not a type of service that you can just arbitrarily do away with. It should be recognized for what it is, which is a very valuable asset. We are going to work with the authorities to set up the trade. We've managed to develop the criteria for the community wellness workers' training. There is training in other jurisdictions and other post-secondary institutions for the mental health side, and we are going to work to see what we can provide in the North. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Supplementary To Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Minister's long answer without the information I was asking for. Mr. Speaker, I need to know from the Minister if he could provide me, inside or outside of this House, information as to how many mental health and addictions workers are going to be hired under this program. How many of the incumbents would need extra training and what specific training proposals are being considered to bring in the new people? Mr. Speaker, I will remind the Minister that we approved the budget already in March. It's high time that the department has a plan in place to implement this. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

Minister of Health and Social Services, supplementary plus one more.

Further Return To Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would be happy to provide the Member, through the Social Programs committee, with all the information we have as it pertains to the alcohol and drug and mental health strategy, all the information she has requested both as it applies to the community wellness workers and the mental health workers. As well, I would be happy to extend the offer for a briefing to the committee to discuss the situation and any other concerns that they may have resulting from the review of what has been implemented to date, which is now in year two. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Question 183-15(3): Mental Health Addictions Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, relies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Handley.

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document entitled the Government of the Northwest Territories Annual Report on the Affirmative Action Policy.

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

I would also like to table, Mr. Speaker, the document entitled Ministerial Travel Report, January to March 2004 and Home Travel Report, January to March 2004. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at this time I would like to table, for the record, the Members' Conduct Guidelines for the Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

Item 13, tabling of documents. Ms. Lee.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a document to table. It's the transcript of CBC's special report on Friday, May 28, 2004, and it's with regard to sobriety in leadership. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

Item 13, tabling of documents. Pursuant to section 164 of the Elections Act, I wish to table the report of the Chief Electoral Officer on the administration of the 2003 general election of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

Pursuant to section 68 of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, I wish to table the 2002-2003 Annual Report of the Northwest Territories Information and Privacy Commissioner to the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories, dated May 31, 2004.

Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motion for first reading of bills.

The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

Item 16, motions. Mr. Allen.

Roger Allen

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

WHEREAS discussions on devolution and constitutional reform have been ongoing for several years with little or no change resulting;

AND WHEREAS the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada continues to have authority and control over many aspects of the Northwest Territories and the operations of the Government of the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS the Northwest Territories deserves a seat at the Confederation table on an equal basis with provincial governments;

AND WHEREAS there is an urgent need for the Northwest Territories to gain control over its resources and a share of the associated revenues;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu, that the Premier immediately signal to the people of the Northwest Territories, to this assembly and to the Prime Minister his intent to pursue provincehood for the Northwest Territories;

AND FURTHER, that the Premier begin immediately to seek the support of provincial Premiers for the Northwest Territories to become a province;

AND FURTHERMORE, that the Premier report back to this Assembly on his progress during the fall session. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Allen.

Roger Allen

Roger Allen Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure today to speak to the motion that I put forward. Mr. Speaker, the bill of intent is an alternative to devolution. The Premier has clearly advocated to the northern leaders and in his travels, and I want to state some of his replies to a number of questions back in the early part of the session. I am just going to paraphrase a number of statements he made. He is clear about...(inaudible)..."We are looking for arrangements similar to what the provinces have where the people of the North are responsible for the land, the resources of the North and we have a fair resource revenue sharing agreement."

He points out also that how negotiations are split between the Department of Northern Affairs who is handling the devolution of powers and the Department of Finance, which is looking after the royalty issue. This is a fatal flaw in the view of Handley who insists that the territory is not interested in seeing more responsibilities and costs without an agreement for resource revenue sharing. In finality, he says this has been going on far too long, let's get on with it.

Mr. Speaker, my riding of Inuvik Twin Lakes, as I stated in my reply to opening address, in which I stated very emphatically they want political transformation and it's discouraging to them the time it takes the Government of Canada to make a commitment to devolution and resource revenue sharing.

I want to point out that this motion states that people want political transformation and this is one method of achieving it. The procedural format is fairly standard, Mr. Speaker. What is important in the context of this statement is that it is time to get ownership of the lands and resources and control as a Premier. There was a statement several months ago that it takes 30 to 50 years to assume ownership, but that was 100 years ago, Mr. Speaker. In today's high tech era, it shouldn't take that long with the way information flows back and forth. I think it's incumbent upon ourselves as legislators in the Northwest Territories to really emphasize the need to gain ownership, otherwise we are going to be like the other two territories where they will take out the minerals, have a tremendous amount of resource revenue and at the end of the day, which could be 30 to 50 years after the lands are depleted of their wealth, we will assume the liabilities. I think that has occurred in the past with Giant Mine and perhaps this year with Con Mine. There are a number of other gold mines that are laying dormant that have environmental issues relating to them that extend not only into the Territories, but other provinces as well.

So we need to look in the context of this motion at our place in Canada that goes beyond resource and revenue sharing, but also addresses our sovereignty issue. I don't think we are any different from Quebec. Quebec has often called for referendums to secede from Canada. I don't

think we want to go that far, but we certainly want to have the public interest of Canadians to support our ongoing initiative to try to work through to provincehood.

We also need to address the essential points, Mr. Speaker, in the sense that we need to plant a seed. Currently we sit under the federal statute. Let me cross-reference a number of issues in terms of our Legislative Assembly. The two major differences between the legislative powers of the territories and that of the powers of provincehood are the powers of the provinces to amend their constitution and control the management and sale of public lands.

The Constitution of 1982 grants each province the power to amend its own constitution. The constitution of the Northwest Territories is the Northwest Territories Act, which is a federal statute. Therefore, only the Prime Minister of Canada has the right to amend the constitution of the Northwest Territories.

That's why it's important, Mr. Speaker, in trying to redress our constitutional issue that we ask the Premier to take this and work with the federal government and also the Premiers to see if we can garner support for the Northwest Territories. Hopefully the Yukon and Nunavut will embrace such an undertaking and initiative.

I might add, Mr. Speaker, other addendums are in effect as well, and each province has the sale and management of public lands. Those lands in the Territories remain Crown, which is federal land. Aboriginal governments who settle land claims are also large land owners. Unlike a province, the three territories do not have the power to deal with the lands within their boundaries. That's a key issue, Mr. Speaker. If we are going to promote and work with industry and we talk about partnerships with aboriginal governments, I don't think we have the constitutional framework to do that. I think it really translates into a meaningless way in how we govern ourselves. We don't want to deal in the past tense, Mr. Speaker.

We want to deal with the future, what the future of the Territories evolves into. That's important. We need to realize that as long as we remain under a federal statute, we have no methodology to develop a way we can generate revenues outside of what is given to this government through federal/territorial transfers. I sympathize with the Minister of Finance who goes down to Ottawa and other major cities across Canada and tries to negotiate a fair financial arrangement and yet come back with approximately $3.5 million to enhance our ever-growing budget demands.

I see us working more closely with aboriginal governments and also being beneficiaries of land claim agreements, and the study of the way the process works and the transfers between the federal government and the aboriginal governments indicate strongly to me that much of the transfers circumvent the Government of the Northwest Territories. I think that's not fair to the NWT as we often have to administer the funds through to aboriginal governments. When we do come up with critical management problems, we have nowhere to turn and we are not in a position to try to cost-share any of the program service and deliveries that we are obligated to.

So I certainly want to encourage Members of this Assembly to look very closely at how we function as a government. The future of this government is again at the beck and call of federal statute of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada on the devolution of programs and services. So under the financial arrangements, we have to deal with Finance Canada, which isn't willing to deal with the territorial government outside of what is normally given to us under transfers.

We are hearing Members of this House talk to problems of their constituents not accessing that level of service or being under funded. I believe this strongly gives us the suggestion that we need to support the motion and work through the process that is laid out under the federal jurisdiction. I want to assure the Members that we need to clearly look at where we stand in the Canadian Constitution and give our Premier and our Ministers the capability of sitting down face to face and having some powers. The systematic approach we want to take is going to be cost-beneficial to the Northwest Territories, not only to ourselves but to the residents.

I see it as a long-term plan, but today we need to begin to plant the seed, Mr. Speaker. I want to assure the Premier that certainly from the riding of Inuvik Twin Lakes and hopefully the rest of the Members will join in in supporting our government to assume some of those powers beyond just turning over responsibility to our constituents which, at the end of the day, will be confronted with huge fiscal deficits and having to mitigate future cost controls in terms of how we provide that level of service.

Again, I wanted to speak briefly. I had spoken briefly to the level of intent to the Constitution Act of 1982 and laid out some format of how we should proceed with it, giving the Premier the mandate to move out on this very large, but very important initiative on behalf of at least my riding, as the mover. I will speak again at the conclusion of the debate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

To the motion. Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I guess I am sad about this motion. Mr. Allen asked me to consider seconding the motion. Mr. Speaker, I heard that in order to get to the Promised Land, we have to negotiate our way out of the bushes. So I look at this as an opportunity with the Northwest Territories being the promised land because of the potential wealth that we have in the Northwest Territories and the amount of wealth that the federal government takes from the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, we are in a unique position. There are unique circumstances in the Northwest Territories. The way it's structured right now, it seems that it may not be a good place to have provincehood. However, we have the means and the dynamics in the North. There are many changes happening in Canada, where some of the provinces look favourably upon the North in terms of having some unique approaches to looking at provincehood.

Devolution is a big issue for the Sahtu. I did some canvassing in the Sahtu region and they basically said that it would be a good idea to look at some of the options of provincehood. Maybe it would have benefits for us, maybe not. It may work against it. At least have a dream, and Mr. Allen has agreed to planting the seeds for our people in terms of growing up with the big boys in the Confederation of Canada. Right now, we are a territory

and there is some perception that we are at arm's length of the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs, an administrative arm of the federal government. In some other areas, it shows we have come into some maturity as a territory and could be looked at as a province. That will take some support from this government and some other governments here across Canada.

I guess I am supporting the motion so that we can have a seat at the Confederation table. We are more than a territory and it's about time we started looking at having some discussions with our people in the Northwest Territories in terms of having the Northwest Territories become a unique province in the Confederation of Canada. This is gaining control of resources and administering our resources and looking at the revenues that could stay in the Northwest Territories. I would like to keep all the resources, but I understand a huge load of it goes to Ottawa. They have some instances where they distribute the money back to the Northwest Territories.

However, through my six months of being in the House here, it seems we are not getting anything. The needs of the North are so big that we are barely scraping the bottom. We have lots of needs in the North such as housing, health, education. We need to have more power to give more benefits to the people. I think unless we go to Canada and send a message to our people that it's high time that the Northwest Territories takes a meaningful look at all the options, have some meaningful meetings in the Northwest Territories and in the regions and look at the big picture in terms of having this territory come to fruition in terms of the unique provincehood style.

These are my points in supporting the motion that Mr. Allen put forward. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker David Krutko

To the motion. Ms. Lee.