Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for Human Resources, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In fact, no. The version of the program that we are moving to will not be a customized version. That is what has led to the problems. The problems that we have had have been trying to move away from a program that was modified in ways that were...It is difficult to find words to explain why it was done that way because I am not sure. I really can't explain why the modifications were made to the program in the first place, but I can tell you that moving to a plain Jane version...

---Laughter

No pun intended at all. Moving to a vanilla version, Mr. Speaker, has met significant difficulties. We don't believe the problems are with the software, Mr. Speaker. The contractor who delivered the program to the government was specifically quizzed on whether or not they had the skills to deliver a working system. They told us they could move us from the compromised system we were using to a fully functional system. But it is evident that they have not been able to do that at this point.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Finally we are hearing some solutions. By the way, for the record, I want to say that Jane is not plain, because I have worked with her for four years. I can say that is a fact. Mr. Speaker, the fact is there is the problem right there. It has been changed and modified. Mr. Speaker, what are we going to do to bring back the integrity of this system to both the employees who work in Human Resources, who are probably getting backlashes every day on this problem, and also the fact the employees who have to know that the integrity of the personal information is out there and they are not 100 percent sure if it is confident or even confidently being handled? So the bottom line is, what is he doing to ensure and restore confidence back in the system that obviously has been changed, modified and who knows what else? It is good to hear we are going forward with something better. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since we discovered the issue, we went past the contractor that we had hired to implement the software. So we did buy the software from Oracle PeopleSoft. We actually hired another company to do the installation because Oracle PeopleSoft doesn't usually do installations with the program. Their responsibility was to ensure that the proper tables and interfaces were in so that the program would work in our system and that we could migrate the information from the old version of the software to the new version. Since we ran into the problems, we are unable to

get expedient resolution from the company that we had contracted with to deliver the software, we contacted Oracle. Oracle very quickly sent somebody to Yellowknife who has stayed here to ensure that we are able to get the program working in a manner which it should be. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, their responsibility is not the answer. Their problem is not the answer. Mr. Speaker, I want to hear the Minister say that it was his fault in the sense of...Boil it down to the fact that he knew about this months ago. Now we have chopped up a system and who knows what we have. Will the new system be tested to ensure that it works properly before we put it back on line and we put our employees' personal information at risk once again? I can tell you for a fact, e-mails were floating around even earlier this week with personal information of various employees out there. So the fact is that it is still happening. When will it be fixed? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In fact, we ran a system in parallel before moving it to go live and it seemed to work when it was running in a test system. For some reason, when it moved into the production system, it didn't work. I can't answer why that happened. In fact, it seems we are having some trouble getting to that answer. Mr. Speaker, the issue that the Member refers to this week was not a software issue. That was a human issue. That sort of thing can't be solved by new software. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, it is great that we are running a parallel system that is not doing anything correctly and we are running the actual program that we don't have any confidence in but we are continuing to do that. So, Mr. Speaker, why are we bothering to continue to invest in a program that continually shows us bad results? I want to hear that now, because we are wasting everyone's time and money. Why do we continue this? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure where the Member is getting his advice that the program is at fault. What I said was the manner in which the program was modified in the first place is what has caused this problem. Eight of 10 Canadian provinces use this. Another province is moving to PeopleSoft. One of the other territories uses this program, as well. So it is the program that is most widely used in Canada in terms of dealing with pay and benefits. The program itself is not the issue. The manner in which the program was changed previously and now trying to move to a non-modified program, one that is fully functional, has caused some problems.

Mr. Speaker, I am confident that, with the assistance of Oracle, we are going to get this situation resolved. I would like to point out that the last pay, for instance, did run pretty well directly. There were very few instances of problems with the last pay. The real problems we had were in the two July pays and we think that we resolved the problem. We haven't got the full functionality of the program that we were trying for because of the modifications that were done previously. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister of Human Resources, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Absence Management was a brand new module that we have not used in the past. So when we turn that off, then leave is being handled in the same way that it has been up until the new software was installed. So it is the same process as was used prior to July 3. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

I would like the Minister to assure us, and I don't know what I can really stake on that assurance because I stood in this House and told the Minister that we had a problem about this previously. He categorically denied that that problem existed. He subsequently found out it did exist and now I am asking for those assurances again anyway. I would like to ask the Minister what assurances can he provide to us that now, going forward, we have a system that works and is

not going to see managers and staff spending inordinate amounts of time trying to sort this out? Is he confident now today that we have a system in place that is functioning properly? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not confident that we have that system in place today, but I am confident that, with the assistance of the software manufacturer, who now has a representative here in Yellowknife working with us, that we will get to that very quickly.

As I said, we managed to get the last pay out without any significant issue and I am confident that that demonstrates that we are on the road to getting there. Whether or not we will ever be able to implement the Absence Management module, I don't know. We were hoping to, because it would improve the functionality of the system; but even if we can't, the system would have the same level of functionality that it had prior to July 3rd when we tried to bring that module on line.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have to assume that the Government of the Northwest Territories is a pretty sophisticated client and we have spent, as I said, a very large amount of money on ensuring that we have a modern and efficient system in place. I would like to know what is the Minister doing to protect the financial interests of this government with respect to the purchase of this and all of the subsequent costs that have occurred by its failure to function properly? What is this Minister doing to, I suppose even assess what those costs are, and to protect this government from further expenditure? Thank you.