This is page numbers 5095 - 5126 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was work.

Topics

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Under the Northern Accord agreement it states:

Nothing in this agreement will abrogate or derogate from any of the provisions included in any aboriginal land claims settlements including the following subjects:

a) land use planning;

b) environmental impact screening and

review;

c) land and water use permitting;

d) wildlife management and compensation;

e) surface

rights;

f) subsurface

rights;

g) benefit

agreements;

h) creation and management of national and

territorial parks and conservation areas;

i)

resource revenue sharing.

For greater certainty, the oil and gas management are required in the establishment of pursuing this agreement shall be comparable to those in the land claim agreements.

So this agreement states that you have to follow the land claims agreements with regard to how you implement devolution.

So I’d like to know why we aren’t following the Northern Accord as it was laid out, to ensure those provisions of the land claims agreements will be upheld.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

As I had stated earlier, much like the comprehensive Dene/Metis claim, the Northern Accord work had a lot of work done that led up to that. As to actual implementation, we’ve been using the agreements that have been signed off, that have been voted on and protected under the Constitution and our work as signatories when those parties or those agreements were ratified. The Northern Accord was a process that led up to and many hoped that it would be finalized, but much like the Dene/Metis Comprehensive Claim it did not proceed beyond that. In fact, we do now use the agreements that are in place and we continue to do that.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d just like to ask the Premier exactly how many aboriginal groups were in the negotiating process, at the table negotiating this latest devolution agreement since previous statements by the Premier in which he put this arrangement on the back burner, as he stated. Can you tell us how many aboriginal groups were actually at the negotiating table when this was being negotiated between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the federal government?

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

We’ll be able to document the fact that we’ve had all groups at the table through the process up until April. That’s when the Gwich’in decided to pull out from those discussions.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to follow up on the questions asked by my colleague Mr. Bromley on how we can take a more

common sense approach to things which seem to have an obvious and simple answer, but because policy is strict and there isn’t a lot of latitude for discretion to be applied it makes it difficult to plead these cases.

The cases that Mr. Bromley refers to where we have students in southern Canada who need medical attention and because medical travel must originate in the Northwest Territories to be covered, the fact that these students couldn’t then access any kind of travel assistance even if it would be far less than what it would cost to come home and fly from here, but they can’t access any kind of support. It doesn’t make sense. Mr. Bromley clearly referred to it as a common sense approach.

We know, as a government, that we can’t have policies that have too much discretionary latitude attached to them because then we don’t have any way of controlling it and we don’t have any way of controlling costs and the whole thing can just go awry. But there must be a way.

I didn’t really hear anything very specific being responded from the Minister as to how we could deal with these sorts of things. I have a suggestion and I’d like to ask the Minister what she thinks of this. We need some kind of a person, a point of contact in the government, where people or MLAs, on behalf of constituents, could make a case for where the government needs to alter a policy in order for it to apply to a certain set of circumstances; somebody that the government trusts is not going to put the government at some kind of risk and somebody that will also be understanding and apply some common sense and discretion to the situation. I suggest some type of an ombudsman. I’ll ask the Minister, first, what would she respond to having somebody in the Department of Health with that kind of ability.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. An ombudsman or some kind of an arbiter or in many cases, no matter what Health and Social Services issues, they end up on the Minister’s desk. The important thing in a society based on rule of law and rule of rules, we need clear rules. Even an ombudsman would need a rule to arbitrate or rule on these things.

On the specific issue in question that we have here -- just so that Members know that the Department of Health and Social Services is not completely without common sense -- the Members could imagine cases where, I mean, see some merit as to why we need to require the medical travel originating in the NWT. Because we use out-of-town uses, we audit cases where things come out of the Territories, because sometimes people move away and they use our medical benefits and such.

That’s why. But in the cases of students, there’s no question that our students who are living and going to school outside of the NWT should be able to get their medical procedures from where they live. That is a definite anomaly and I am looking to change that.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

That is encouraging and I’ll be very interested in seeing how the Minister plans to address that. I’ll be looking forward to some proposal being brought forward.

The Minister referred to these kinds of situations landing on her desk. I would question whether or not, considering the number of portfolios, the amount of workload that the Minister and her executive assistant carry, the fact that the Department of Health and Social Services is the largest department in our government, if this is the highest and best use of the Minister’s time for her to take on that role herself. Is it not possible to delegate this to a reasonable thinking, critical, analyzing person and have this person accessible to everyone? Not everyone has the same access because not everyone can advocate for themselves and not everyone has an MLA that they feel they can go to that can advocate for them. So does the idea, and for a lack of a better word, an advocate or ombudsman, does the Minister believe that has merit or would she just like us to continue sending these off to her executive assistant?

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

I definitely feel that notion, that idea does deserve merit for us to further explore. I think, under the given resources, I don’t think we can create an entire office, but I think there is definitely room for us to consider it. I would like to further work with the Members to consider some kind of appeal for certain benefits under health care. It’s usually about insurance services, what’s insured, what’s not, medical travel, maybe supp health benefits.

Under supp health benefits we are definitely looking at some kind of appeal mechanism. Student Financial Assistance has that. I don’t know what other social programs have them, but I think it’s something worth pursuing and I will commit right now to look at that.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Sorry, and I apologize, Mr. Speaker. I am very encouraged to hear this. This is something that I believe has been missing in the government for a long time. SFA is another area where you could combine different appeals for different departments under one person and they could expeditiously deal with these matters. I don’t envy that person’s job, mind you, because it might necessarily involve saying no to some people. But does the Minister concur that in the scope of these policies that there are extenuating circumstances from time to time which do require a common sense

solution which often would save the government money?

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

It may or it may not, but the important thing is that I think our people need to feel that they have a place they could go to that should be outside of the political process, that can’t be depending on the level or the strength of advocacy capacity of certain Members or the heartbreaking side of the stories. I think we could all benefit from having some sort of objective standard by which our people know exactly what they qualify for, what the rules are, why do they not qualify, or do they qualify, and if there is any room for improvement it has to come back here for us to make the decision. But I definitely feel that the time has come and we need to consider that.

It will be complex, I think, more complex than we think, but I think for the benefit of the next Assembly -- and these issues will not go away -- we do need an objective process. I would commit to working with Mrs. Groenewegen and other Members to see how we could move this forward.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier of the Northwest Territories. I want to ask the Premier regarding the draft Devolution and Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement-in-Principle in terms of allowing the people of the Northwest Territories ample time to look at this deal. As has been noted by CBC, parts of the deal are out there. Can we have our constituents in the regions look at this deal to see if it’s something they want to join with the Government of the Northwest Territories to initial at the start of the negotiations? I want to ask the Premier if his Cabinet has considered bringing this out to the public to have a public debate and to see if we are all in one on this matter.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have, as a government, used a process that is well established and one that is working with the parties at the table and the aboriginal organizations that have been a part of this process. We are awaiting their input with the joint letter that went out to them. We’ll have to decide at that point how we proceed as the GNWT.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

I’m asking the Premier in terms of some innovation and thinking outside the box regarding the established guidelines and policies to bring this significant deal to the peoples’ front doors and asking if this is a deal that we want to sign on

with everybody in the Northwest Territories. I have the K’asho leadership coming here today and I’m meeting with them after this House session here today. I need to let the K’asho leadership know. What should I tell them about this deal?

We have 13 days, the Premier has indicated, to get responses from the aboriginal leaders; 13 days to tell my leaders what to do for our children’s children on this significant deal here and in terms of signing on with the government. Can the Premier allow the people of the Northwest Territories the dignity and respect to debate this in an open forum?

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

The aboriginal representatives received a draft AIP in September. They at that point were hoping and I’m sure that they’ve had their discussions or are in the process of having their discussions with their elected representatives of their representative organizations and will be able to respond back. We’re awaiting that response. We’re trying to honour, much like at the regional leaders table, the role of governments and have that interaction government to government as we have been told so many times. We’re awaiting the regional organizations’ responses to the letter that’s been sent to them.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

The time frame for the aboriginal leaders to respond, again I would wait until the end of the month to see. It would have to be on Halloween Day, too, so we’ll see what type of a response we’re going to get.

I want to ask because right now I’m not hearing the aboriginal governments jumping up and down saying “sign here.” I’m hearing different views as to this agreement and it seems that we don’t have much support from the majority of aboriginal governments. I want to ask the Premier again if this is the type of sentiments and feelings out there at the end of the month, would we as the Assembly make the decision to initial or not this agreement?

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

Mr. Speaker, the work that we have done and this draft AIP that has been sent out has been many years in the making. In fact, the specific work on this area started as far back as 2001. The previous government along with four of the groups initialled off and sent it in. That work has been the foundation, the basis of the work that has gone forward. So there has been much involvement in that process and as our process is established and works, before I can sign off on that I would have to go to my Cabinet colleagues to see their input on that. As well, as we do in practice, we seek the input of Members on that before coming up to that decision point. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. A final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Premier and Mr. Krutko have exchanged on some

of the history that went on with the devolution and resource revenue sharing beyond 1988 and from there today where we have an initial agreement that we’re discussing whether we sign or not sign, Mr. Speaker, in terms of that history it also shows that the government has also changed its views in terms of the majority of aboriginal governments on board to the full support of them to some support. Now it seems like we have a government-to-government relationship and I’m afraid that this initial agreement will not recognize the aboriginal governments as being party to this initial agreement. I think there are some significant changes that need to be made, if I read it closely enough, in terms of moving forward.

I want to ask the Premier in terms of allowing the people of the Northwest Territories the opportunity to say this deal is good for us or not. Will the Premier, again, commit to some type of open forum for debate on the initial AIP?

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Premier

The work that we have done and we’re at now, we’ll be facing a decision as the 16th Legislative Assembly whether we go to

the next level of negotiations. As pointed out, even the language that’s there before protects the aboriginal rights, and it’s our role as a public government to ensure that the rights of the public as a whole of the Northwest Territories are also represented.

It’s been through the many years that this work has been done and we count on the input of Members who are representatives of the many constituencies across the North to voice their input, as we do commonly practice in our system of government. So we will go through that process. We will have to decide on a decision in the future as to do we make this and go to the next level and begin those final set of negotiations moving the file forward. At this point that’s where we’re at. We want to wait and see that response to the letters that have gone out and then, as I said to Members, we’ll be discussing as our process is established and seeking input from the Members as well. Thank you.