This is page numbers 5321 - 5360 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

Topics

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. A short, final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was going to ask about the 30 percent of gross income being unrealistic and crushing, but I think I will hold off on that and just ask the Minister in respect to these rental arrears.

It is stressful. It is urgent. What sort of time frame are we talking about for these people that are living under these crushing debts of tens of thousands of dollars with very modest incomes? They need relief. When will it happen? Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, speaking territorial-wide, obviously we have heard of the situation with the one constituent which four months is an awful long time to wait or hear an answer on providing all the information that we have asked them to provide. Looking at it territorial-wide, obviously it is going to be a challenge.

With all the folks coming back to the LHOs now, getting their assessments done, there is a lot more of that face to face. They will have an opportunity to bring in some verification of income. That will be taken care of. The adjustments will be made. We will do our part as the Housing Corporation and LHOs. We will do our part in sharing that.

A lot of the arrears are written down, but we are asking tenants to do their part in verifying income. I think, with them coming into the LHOs, we are going to see a lot of the arrears.

We all realize that there was a $4 million increase in the amount of public housing arrears during the transition period. We are hoping to get the numbers stabilized and actually have a true arrears number. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation as well.

I talked in my Member’s statement about flexibility of programs. The lack of flexibility is, I think, a problem across the government as a whole, not just the Housing Corporation. But there are certainly

certain areas within the Housing Corporation where the programming lacks flexibility.

I highlighted in my Member’s statement one example where the programs are set up in such a way that it doesn’t encourage tenants to go back to work or take advantage of short-term employment opportunities or even, in some cases, longer term employment opportunities, because they feel that they get penalized almost immediately. As soon as they start collecting money, the rents pop up to maximum rents, or lowered, depending on the amount of money they are bringing in. Regardless, often it is better for them to not work and maintain a stable life than to work and have to get hit with so much financial expense immediately.

Has the Housing Corporation done any research into the program, especially this particular program, about rent collections to ensure that they have some flexibility that will allow them to assess each situation on its own merit and work with the clients that have arrears, that don’t have arrears, so that they can maximize work opportunities and not fall behind but get ahead for a change? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is an argument that we’ve heard a lot of across the Northwest Territories and all my visits to the communities saying that the rent is a disincentive to work. We hear stories where folks have been paying $32 a month, they get a seasonal job, their rents increase for the time they’re working and that is a policy that the LHOs are following. I’ve had some discussions with senior officials, but we have to understand, though, that for the amount of time they’re not working and they’re paying $32 a month, we’re subsidizing them a huge amount and during the time that their working is their opportunity to pay back some of the subsidy that they’ve received. Because once they lose their seasonal job, they’ll be down to $32 a month again, and again Housing will be subsidizing them. So it is an argument that we’ve heard a lot of across the Northwest Territories and one that we recognize is a bit of a challenge. Obviously, hearing it so many times, it’s one that we have to look at quite seriously. Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I hear the Minister and I understand what the Minister is saying, but at the same time individuals who aren’t receiving subsidies, their salaries may change over the year, there may be peak months, there may be depressed months, bills may change, but when I have a month where I happen to make some extra money, I get to put that money where I want. I get to put it towards debts if I choose or I get to buy myself a new guitar if I choose. Whereas these

individuals -- and I’m not talking necessarily seasonal, I’m talking really short-term employment opportunities -- when these individuals have an opportunity to get a little bit of money, they can’t get ahead because we take it from them and put it towards their rent right away. I fully understand, fully understand the importance of collecting from people, but it’s important that we give these people an opportunity as well.

So can I get the Minister to commit to researching this situation, to investigating this situation and come to us with alternatives? It may not be the same for everybody. It needs to be flexible. So will the Minister do that for us? Thank you.

An Hon. Member

Great question.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

As part of the rent scale review, I mean, this is one of the things that we were hoping to have a look at, is exactly what the Member and a bunch of other Members, and not just Members, it’s actually people across the Northwest Territories. So it’s a message that we’ve heard and it’s one that obviously we’re going to have to have a look at and see if this is something that we should consider doing. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I will keep it short. When might we, as Members, and when might the public start to see this research start and when might we see some sort of recommendations coming out of this review? Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

As we speak we’re doing a review of the rent scale right now and this is a discussion I’ve had with senior management over at the Housing Corporation. As for an exact time frame of this particular one, I know we’re hoping to have the rent scale review completed and implemented by April 1st . But as far as the actual

questions the Member is asking, I’m not sure of an exact time frame. I will confirm that and I will pass it on to committee. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to ask my question to the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.

An Hon. Member

No way.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

I spoke earlier about the eligibility and it’s a concern as I travel around to my communities within my riding. A lot of people are saying that they’ve applied, they’ve got their rejection letter saying that they’re not eligible. So it

raises the concern to me, Mr. Speaker, just how many people are eligible for NWT Housing programs. We’ve got a community core need income threshold level. So I’d like to ask the Minister just what range of a client are we looking for. How much can they make? Well, he can pick one of the communities in my riding. How much can they make and what’s the lower limit they can make too, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s our intent to try and get as many people into homeownership as possible. That’s why I’ve asked the corporation to come up with a few different options as to how we can fit more people in the program. The core need income threshold is one of the arguments that we’ve heard quite a bit. It varies from the different communities as to the number of bedrooms in that particular community, the maximum construction costs. I have a list of all the core need income thresholds for all the communities across the Northwest Territories. I can commit to the Member that I can have copies printed off and distributed to the Regular Members. Thank you.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

In some of our communities in the Northwest Territories we did get some new houses, but the number of affordability problems continues to increase and this trend raises questions about eligibility for housing programs. So just once again, perhaps if I ask a different question a different way, Mr. Speaker, if I can. The current intake was completed October 14th . Does the

Minister have enough statistics to compare the number of clients that applied this year as compared to the last three years? Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The applications that we’ve received, as Members know, the deadline was October 15th . The applications that we’ve

received for PATH, that’s the actual homeownership, we’ve got 110 assessments that we’re doing right now. As far as applications for the HELP units, we have 183 territorial-wide that we’re doing the assessments on right now. Thank you.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

I was just trying to get a comparison to the intake for this year and how many people are actually eligible as opposed to the intake we took from last year or, say, the year before. Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The numbers that I gave were the applications that we received for the coming fiscal year, the ‘11-12 fiscal year. Those assessments are still underway. We’ve only had about a week and a half since the close of the applications. So as far as the actual numbers that were approved, we don’t have that number yet. Once the assessments are done, then we’ll have

the number of applicants that have been approved. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. In terms of the eligibility guidelines, should you have a community that doesn’t have enough applicants or else a lot of applicants are being rejected because of those guidelines, is the Minister willing to consider reassessing or relaxing his guidelines so that people in the upper limit, people that are over this net can be eligible for programming and some flexibility for the lower incomes as well? I believe that the people who can afford it should be in those units. Thank you.