This is page numbers 4101 - 4140 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to follow up with some more questions to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. I wasn’t really satisfied with the responses that I got from the Minister on the fact that we are treating folks who go out for training for apprenticeship training differently than we are treating college students. I’m just wondering, according to the Minister’s logic, why the Government of the Northwest Territories, because we have infrastructure on the ground for post-secondary studies here and programs running in the Northwest Territories, why do we fund students to attend southern institutions in the area of nursing or teaching, for example. Can the Minister explain that to me?

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. We do fund all students as best we can; the 1,400 post-secondary students that are out there and the apprenticeship students that are out there. I think we have to keep that in mind that this particular campus that we’re talking about, it’s also geared towards apprenticeship because, as I stated, we’ve invested so much already and we continue to invest in upgrading our facility so it’s one of the top of the line courses that is being offered. At the same time, other students are taking those post-secondary programs as well at Smith campus and Inuvik campus or Yellowknife campus. We do sponsor all the students, but there are at times courses that the students want to take outside and then it’s their choice to do so.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Again I’m just having trouble understanding the Minister’s logic because, yes, we have an investment in Fort Smith, but the same could be true for the Aurora Campus here in Yellowknife at Northern United Place where we as a government have contributed a tremendous amount of money into the Northern Nursing Program that’s now affiliated with the University of Victoria. So why doesn’t the Minister go out, round up all the students we have in southern Canada and put them here in Yellowknife so that they can get educated here in the Northwest Territories? His argument makes no sense. I want to know why apprentices are treated differently than college students. Why are they made to go to Fort Smith?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

I think there’s also a cost factor to keep in mind where we have students who are going to NAIT or other southern institutions that we pay well over $5,000 for one student. If you add let’s say 100 students in the Apprenticeship Program, that’s $580,000 going outside the Northwest Territories where that can be spent to our campuses in the Northwest Territories. We say we have 1,400 students going south. I’m sure it doesn’t cost us $5,800 for one student. There is a fee that we pay at the NAIT campuses, because they have their own NAIT institution act that they follow that we have to pay for a seat. Those are some of the differentiations in how the cost factors are in play. But it is $580,000 that we are looking at.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I think we should treat everybody fairly and equally. That includes apprentices and anybody wanting to further their education. If that’s in southern Canada, then it’s in southern Canada. Either we’re going to support people or we’re not. Apprentices should not be treated any differently than anybody else. I’d like to ask the Minister if he has any flexibility whatsoever when it comes to this policy so that when somebody is caught in a predicament where they can go to a third year and get it done while they’re already there, which makes absolute sense, is there any flexibility that the Minister has to make sure that this can happen. What’s right should happen.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Yes, there is flexibility where if a program is not being offered at our campuses, we send students down south such as we did with this individual on his second year. So we continue to promote that. But we do have to keep in mind that we do have campuses here in the Northwest Territories that we need to sponsor and support. It’s our true northern campuses.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I think the Minister is missing my point. The point is that this individual can start his third year almost immediately. He can be concluded that third year prior to April 7th when the program

starts in Fort Smith, which would enable him to come back home to Yellowknife and pursue his further apprenticeship. I would like to ask the Minister, has there been allowances under the policy in the past that saw individuals allowed to attend back-to-back years at NAIT or SAIT?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

The intake, again, is for March at NAIT and three weeks later it’s at Fort Smith campus. So there is not much time difference. At the same time we’re not just talking about one student. We’re talking about other students that will be lining up at our door saying, pay for our institution down south. We don’t want to close down our facility in Fort Smith, Inuvik, or Yellowknife campus. That should be our first priority, supporting our campuses in the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 9, written questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Would the Minister provide the following details specific to inclusive schooling funding particular detailing each community and school districts over the past three years including the projected trends for the next two school years:

1. How many students are categorized as

inclusive students that require one-to-one support that would not otherwise be able to attend school safely?

2. How many students are categorized as special

needs students that require special assistance with modified school plans?

3. How much funding is provided to each

community and district school board for each question as highlighted and categorized above?

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Item 10, returns to written questions. Item 11, replies to opening address. Item 12, petitions. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have two documents I would like to table today. One identifies the contents of the Christmas present that was given to the Legislative Assembly yesterday by the Anti-Poverty Strategy supporters. The second is a listing of the Anti-Poverty Strategy supporters.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS every person has the right to a standard of living adequate to the well-being of their families and themselves;

AND WHEREAS approximately 10 percent of Canadians, or 2.9 million people, lived in poverty in 2007;

AND WHEREAS in some NWT communities, up to 50 percent of households have a total income of less than $30,000;

AND WHEREAS 40 percent of NWT households with a senior have incomes below $40,000;

AND WHEREAS health indicators, educational achievement, child apprehension rates and family violence can be directly related to poverty;

AND WHEREAS poverty is human-made and can be overcome;

AND WHEREAS the GNWT currently has no official definition of poverty and no clear and integrated strategy to combat poverty;

AND WHEREAS it should be a priority goal of the GNWT to eradicate poverty in the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS eradicating poverty will significantly contribute to the achievement of all of the Legislative Assembly’s goals and priorities;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that the government develop an Anti-Poverty Strategy for the Northwest Territories;

AND FURTHER, that the Premier initiate discussions towards this strategy in partnership

with business, organizations and those living in poverty;

AND FURTHER, that the government and partners start by developing a definition of poverty;

AND FURTHER, that the Anti-Poverty Strategy identify specific, measurable targets, with clear cross-departmental mechanisms for coordination and integration of actions;

AND FURTHERMORE, that the government provide a comprehensive response to this motion within 120 days.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The motion is on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I brought this motion to the floor of the House because I believe poverty is a huge issue in the NWT and I believe this government can do better in our efforts to eradicate poverty. We already have a number of programs and services in place, programs and services whose goal it is to assist those residents of ours who are marginalized, to reduce the level and amount of poverty in our Territory. But these many activities are not coordinated across our government system and they are not coordinated with the activities and non-government organizations and local governments.

Currently there are gaps in the services that are available to our residents. There are holes in the poverty safety net. By working together, we can close those gaps, mend those holes and accomplish so much more. A comprehensive targeted strategy to address poverty in the NWT is what is needed.

The preamble to the motion mentions some poverty statistics. About 10 percent of Canadians live in poverty. In the NWT’s smaller communities, up to 50 percent of our households have a total income of less than $30,000 per year. Too many of our people either live in poverty or very close to the edge of it, Mr. Speaker.

Right now, I think everybody should agree that poverty has an impact on our systems and on our residents. The causes and effects are well documented. Again, I quote from the motion’s preamble, “health indicators, educational achievements, child apprehension rates and family violence can be directly related to poverty.”

For the GNWT, these effects of poverty on our residents puts added stress and strain on our health system, our social service system, our justice system and our education system. If we work together to eliminate or even reduce poverty experienced by our people, the results will be positive, both by a financial perspective and a

human one. But in order to achieve those results, we need a comprehensive targeted strategy to address poverty in the NWT.

There is no need to reinvent the wheel, either, Mr. Speaker. Six Canadian provinces have adopted anti-poverty strategies and two more are in the throes of doing so. There are several provincial strategies which we can use as a template for our own NWT one. I am advised that the Newfoundland and Labrador strategy in particular is one that we should look at with the view of using it as a foundation or base document for the development of our own strategy.

This motion calls for the Premier to initiate discussions to develop an NWT Anti-Poverty Strategy. But it emphasizes that any development must be done in partnership, in conjunction with business, organizations and those living in poverty. The development of a strategy without the involvement of these groups is a strategy destined to fail. So let’s not do that, please.

The motion also calls for the development of a definition of poverty, a definition that applies to the NWT. It’s something which does not exist at the moment and we can hardly initiate an attack on poverty if we don’t have a clear definition of the target of the attack.

The other element that must be part of any discussion is the identification of a tool to adequately measure poverty. Several measures exist throughout Canada but none applies particularly well to the NWT and there’s no agreed on measure of poverty that is used consistently throughout the government.

Mr. Speaker, every NWT person has the right to live well. The goals and the priorities of this 16th Legislative Assembly speak to healthy, educated people. We need to add to these goals. We need to make the eradication of poverty in the NWT a priority goal. This motion will get us started on that road, Mr. Speaker. I urge all Members of this House to support this motion which can only benefit our residents. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I’ll go to the seconder to the motion, the honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to stress the comments, many of the comments of my colleague Ms. Bisaro. She’s laid it out quite thoroughly there.

Basically we are at the point where we need to define in order to measure and then go out and measure poverty. I think somebody said at one of our get-togethers that if we don’t measure something, we don’t care about it. I am afraid that encapsulates some of the aspects of the issue we

are dealing with through this to get an Anti-Poverty Strategy in the books.

The historical patterns and the development of poverty, of course, are familiar to many. It involves colonization, cultural upheaval, residential schools and so on. We know that many of our communities have suppressed economies. We need healthy, vigorous economies. That’s one of the aspects of dealing with poverty.

Some of these events have been portrayed in the last couple of days and can lead to a downward spiral into poverty unless we have a comprehensive strategy in place to catch those things when they happen. This government, I believe, is developing a lot of experience in that itself.

The boom/bust development scenarios that we have experienced and seem to persist on seeking often creates the devise of those that have and those that don’t. That tends to exacerbate poverty in our communities. Those in poverty face many barriers: access to child care, which we’ve heard much about recently; housing; fuel and food costs; addictions and mental health issues and the linkages that work between those. Income security, we have a lot of good things in place, but they are not linked together in ways which capture things, so there are big gaps in between. Income security does not keep pace, for example, with rising costs. We do adjust it from time to time, but it’s not very sensitive and we know there is an extremely high cost of living today.

Developing a poverty eradication plan must be based on a foundation that ensures a more equitable distribution of benefits through the vision of socially, environmentally and economically sustainable development. We are also talking a lot about that these days.

So I see the opportunities here, Mr. Speaker, as huge. I don’t see this being a huge budget item because I think we are spending a lot, but because we don’t have a comprehensive and integrated approach, we have gaps, a lot of our folks are falling through that. If we start measuring the incidents of poverty, so we actually know how we are doing and evaluating the work that we’re doing and thus learning and using an adaptive management approach to this, we can do a lot of catch up.

So, Mr. Speaker, I obviously will be supporting this motion and I urge all Members to do so. Mahsi

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to say I will be voting in favour of this particular motion. I support any efforts to move this issue forward. Poverty is certainly a demeaning

situation where people are struggling everyday to get out of it and we have to find ways to assist in the breaking of the cycle that is meaningful and productive. Mr. Speaker, I don’t think anybody in an impoverished situation dreams that dream. This is something this government needs to commit to with a focus of saying how can we help people to break the cycle, get up on their own two feet, and celebrate the opportunities that lay before this land of the Northwest Territories.

In closing, I just want to emphasize that I do support this and I think that if we can help break that tailspin that people are in, I hope very dearly that we can provide them every opportunity that all these families deserve who are stuck in this cycle.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of this motion here today. I believe that in our small and remote communities we do have poverty issues and overcrowding issues in our housing. However, I believe that the direction that this motion gives is to have a consolidated plan for our government and that our communities with grassroots ideas and organizations that they can work with government to better help their communities. I think that we’re going in the right direction with this motion.