Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. No question there. Moving on. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, one of the areas you hear a lot of concerns about from the local contractors is that they’re building to take advantage of Housing Corporation contracts because the way that they design those contracts in which they don’t have the capacity to either bid or bond some of these contracts, especially the contracts which are basically supply, ship and

erect. I think that a lot of them feel more comfortable dealing with the labour only aspect of contracts where the Housing Corporation provides the material, brings it into our communities and they construct them. That makes more economic sense and also it’s an easier fix for a lot of the smaller contractors who are just starting out and they can’t compete against the big boys. A lot of the other bigger contracts who do have a side business in regard to hardware supplies and whatnot, they have an advantage over these smaller contractors because they have the business. I think that the way these contracts are being struck, it very much undermines the capacity building of ourselves as government and what they’re trying to do to provide economic opportunities for our communities and develop that capacity in our communities so that they can stay there.

I think it’s also important that at one time you were able to go to the local housing authority and they have their housing materials warehouse and, basically, there was the ability for you to go there. Because if you don’t have a hardware store in the community you either have to go to the regional centres or, in most cases, Yellowknife or Whitehorse. I think that used to be the practice. I’m not too sure on the status of it these days in regard to individuals who may have a furnace problem, in regard to requiring a part that may be at the local housing authority and because it’s an emergency, it’s the middle of winter, you want to be able to get the problem solved as soon as you can. It is an emergency, but if the Housing Corporation can assist by having the part on hand, in the local warehouse for the housing authority, that they’re able to solve the problem and then the person pays back or replaces that item in regard to some sort of a billing process.

I’d just like to know on those two matters exactly where is the government on those two issues and what are we doing to ensure procurement for communities.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, a couple years ago we had an issue where we were looking for material supply, and it was a tender that was for the whole Northwest Territories. So we had some concerns from some of the district providers, so that was changed and they broke it out into districts so the districts would be able to provide quotes on it.

The supply, ship and erect, it is a concern to some of the smaller operators. The ones I know have the capacity to deal with it, but there are some that are just comfortable doing the labour part of it only because they don’t want to have the responsibility of ordering the material and having the material

brought in, because that is a lengthy process and it’s quite long.

We don’t have an issue or a problem in breaking it down to labour only, if it is the wish of the Member and it makes good sense, especially if it is a lot of the smaller communities where they are able to do the labour. It is not really a big issue. We are more than willing to look at that and see if we can do that.

The Member’s second point about the LHOs helping people in the community that have furnace issues, I worked as maintenance supervisor in Aklavik for so many years. I must have cost the Housing Corporation an awful lot of money because -- I’m confessing now --

--Laughter

people would come and borrow things. A lot of times it was an emergency. We had maybe 25 percent of the people return the stuff, but we still had some problems. That would be a decision that would be made at the local level. They know the community. They know who will give back. I know for a fact that most LHOs will not leave people in a bind. If they need a piece if their furnace is out, if they are able to, they will go and fire up their furnace or give them the parts to fire up their furnace. That is something that the housing community does. If we have more and more people returning -- and it was a problem with contractors too. Contractors would come and borrow a bit of material here and a bit of material there, saying that they would bring it back. Some of it you got back and some of it you didn’t. It is usually up to the discretion of the LHOs, but they are pretty good at making sure that they don’t leave people in a bind and wanting to help out where they can. As a corporation, I wouldn’t want to overstep their authority and say you have to do it or you have to bill it because, if you start... Well, we’re not into the material sale business. Usually it is a trust thing. We will give you the part if you bring it back. It works in some communities and it doesn’t work in some.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to move a motion.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Go ahead with your motion.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The motion is being distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question has been called.

---Carried

Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also think this government has to do a better job of trying to work with local contractors to be able to deal with the repair aspect of housing. One of the problems we seem to have a problem with is the area of seniors’ homes. I am trying to work them into my statement here. I have three minutes.

Thank you, committee. We will just put a pause for a second here. Thank you, committee. We will now continue. Mr. Krutko was speaking. Mr. Krutko.

Do I get my three minutes back?

---Laughter

I was just stalling for time, but the issue I was talking about was in the area of elders programs in our communities, especially a lot of the elders need some maintenance of their dwellings. We talk about trying to keep elders in their homes. Especially it seems like a lot of times there are challenges to get people to do the work in the communities. I think that we as a government have to find a way that we can provide the service but also do it in a way that it is… If we can’t do one community, maybe look at bundling these programs.

I know the Housing Corporation does annual maintenance on their housing units. A lot of times they hire summer students to help them clean out water tanks and things like that. If possible, I think that we have to look at some way of ensuring that the elders programs are being delivered, especially on the maintenance side of maintaining the elders service and maintaining their homes. In most cases we do put out tenders on them, but a lot of the times we don’t get a response. Is there a possibility of working this somehow into the responsibility of the local housing authorities?

The idea in the past was give the money to the housing authorities. Let them hire a couple extra people with the money we gave them and then add the seniors in the communities to that list of maintenance that have to be done on public housing and include the elders on that so we benefit both the Housing Corporation and we provide the service to the elders in the communities. I think that idea is still a good idea. I

think that we should be seriously considering it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, that is something that we would be willing to look at if the LHOs were willing and able to take on the preventative maintenance part of it. I think that is something that does make sense right now. We do preventative maintenance on the seniors units plus seniors can still qualify for CARE, and many of them have had repairs done through the CARE program. Preventative Maintenance Program is a big one that we have heard some concerns where people coming from out of town have been doing some of the work. This is something that we can discuss with the LHOs and see if they are able to add it as part of their Preventative Maintenance Program and that is something we would be willing to do. The money that we spend, we can just forward it to the LHOs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Committee, we are on page 5-49, information item, finance and infrastructure services, operations expenditure summary. Are there any questions? Mr. Yakeleya.

Just on the one there, I just left off and I haven’t yet talked to the Minister about this in terms of when they have packages for home units in the communities. I wanted to ask the Minister, has he checked into this issue? I don’t know if it has come to his office yet in terms of some of the units that have missing supplies. It takes them a bit to get the supplies flown into my region where everything is flown in this time of year. Now the winter road is open so they will probably be driving. However, when the packages are there, they are going to build a unit and sometimes they open the crates and sometimes some parts are not there and they have to order it. It goes through the whole bureaucracy of administration. About two or three months later the parts come in. Is that something that is an issue? I know before it used to be different. All the parts used to be there sort of thing. Now it seems like an issue, especially in the one community that I represent, also in the other communities I should say. Is that something that the Minister is aware of?

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister of House, Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, we are aware of that. There have been some concerns with that. We have taken some steps to address that. Some of it is we send the list out there. We know everything that is needed for a particular project. Sometimes some of it doesn’t make it to the community. The folks that are responsible for that project will usually do a check. If there are pieces that are missing, they will then advise the supplier

and they would have to make sure that the piece is there. It is something that I have heard about. It is not a huge issue as much as it used to be. Still, we were supposed to be providing packages to the communities and sometimes if pieces are missing, that can cause delays and if you miss shipping and things like that it can cause delays. It’s something that we’re well aware of and we’re taking steps to address and trying to not have this go on too much because it does affect the communities.

The Minister is correct in that it does have an effect on the contractors in terms of their reputation as builders and suppliers. Paying off the suppliers for the materials or whatever. It has an effect on their business and has an effect on the regional operations in terms of getting the materials in there. I’m glad the Minister said they’re looking at it and hopefully next year we won’t see this as a major issue for us in the communities.

I know there’s a real ambitious plan here to put all units into the communities. It’s a lot of stress on everybody, especially when you have materials coming in and people want to get into these units. I’m glad the Minister said he has an eye on it. I believe the staff will keep him appraised on this. This is something that needs to be cut off and said this is it. Give a clear message to the people who are putting these packages together that this is unacceptable. Especially for the Housing Corporation. You guys pay millions and millions of dollars for supplies for the company. We can’t put up with this kind of shabby business here. You’re the Housing Corporation. You have to let them know that it’s important to our community. When you don’t have all-season roads, you can’t get materials all the time. It’s key for us in our communities. I want to support the Minister in saying that this is a corporation that should stand by and go for it. You can’t have these guys do this to us. Especially in the communities where they’re not involved in discussions at a higher level. They’re just there to build the houses, get the contract, and do a job for the community.

I just wanted to say that. I’m glad the Minister is looking at it. For me it’s something that he knows I’m interested in and would like to see it handled in a way that I don’t have contractors or people coming to me asking what’s going on. I’ll just leave it at that.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Committee, we’re on page 5-49, information item, finance and infrastructure services, operations expenditure summary. Any questions?

Page 5-50, information item, finance and infrastructure services, grants and contributions. Any questions? Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A question on housing for staff, $1.5 million has been reduced to zero. I’m wondering if the government -- I know this is not a solely Housing Corporation initiative -- has abandoned the housing for staff initiative.