Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome back to the Chamber. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Jackson Lafferty will be absent from the House today to attend the federal/provincial/territorial Labour Ministers meeting in Ottawa.

I also wish to advise Members that the Honourable Bob McLeod will be absent from the House today to attend events related to the 2010 Olympic Games in Vancouver.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. [English translation not provided.]

Mr. Speaker, between 2004 and 2009 the housing needs have grown from 16 percent to 19 percent across NWT. Mr. Speaker, that should not happen. My estimates are that the NWT Housing Corporation has in excess of $100 million per year to address social housing needs across the Northwest Territories.

In addition to that, CMHC’s affordable housing money, the NWT Housing Corporation, in my estimate, spent around $900 million to address social housing needs between 2004 and 2009.

Mr. Speaker, how does a corporation that is designed to address social housing need to spend that much money and lose ground? I can tell you how, Mr. Speaker: no strategy, no focus and simply not knowing the real needs of the small communities.

Mr. Speaker, from 2004 to 2009 the core need in Yellowknife remained constant at 9 percent and since 46 percent of the households are in Yellowknife, that means the actual core need in the other communities is actually 28 percent.

Mr. Speaker, when you remove the regional centres and Yellowknife, the needs in the smaller communities are at 42 percent. Mr. Speaker, that shows the NWT Housing Corporation is not focussed in the right areas and does not have a strategy that combats the core need issue for housing. That, after spending 800 to 900 million dollars in that time period.

Mr. Speaker, the NWT Housing Corporation needs a strategy to address core need issues for housing in smaller communities. The NWT Housing Corporation has to develop programs and policies that actually work to take people out of core need. Mr. Speaker, this type of miserable failure should not be ignored by this government. I have made many suggestions on how things could be improved. Very few of my ideas were taken seriously. I will have questions for the Minister at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Over the past few days I was in Deline and I was witness to the hand games that were played there, Mr. Speaker. This is the first annual traditional hand games that the Deline First Nation have hosted. There were 37 teams from the Yukon, Alberta and Northwest Territories in total.

Mr. Speaker, there were just over 260 to 280 hand game players. There’s about 40 hours of singing and drumming. The traditional hand games brought out a lot of excitement from the people in the tournament. People played all hours of the night.

I want to say that on behalf of the Sahtu region I want to congratulate the winner from the community of Wrigley who won the hand game tournament. Meander River came in second. To put on this type of event requires a lot of volunteers from the community of Deline, to the First Nations, to the land corporation, to all the volunteers that came out and cooked and looked after the people who came out to visit.

The hand games were a truly successful event. You could just see the culture come alive when the young kids come and play with the hand games. They educate themselves to learn about their culture and way of life, working as a team. They are being educated on how to play the game in a good manner.

The hand games are a lifelong tradition of the people of the Sahtu region. Certainly when they played, a lot of people came out to witness it. It was a fun-filled weekend and I want to say to the people of Deline and the organizers how much I appreciated being there to witness a part of our culture I’m certainly proud of.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I want to follow up on a return to written question asked by my colleague from Weledeh, Mr. Bob Bromley, on October 26, 2009. I have some very deep concerns about this government’s relentless pursuit of sole-sourcing contracts.

I would welcome former employees, senior managers, and deputy ministers to bid on contracts with the Government of the Northwest Territories. My difficulty is when contracts are handed over to former senior staff on what would appear to be a silver platter.

Is there not something wrong with a deputy minister who is relieved of their duties and months later handed a sole-sourced contract by the very government that let them go? Who are they hired by? Oh, that’s right, other deputy ministers. Isn’t that convenient? Where does the direction come from? Other DMs or is it a political direction to hire these former deputy ministers?

There are a number of communications and consulting firms here in the Northwest Territories. Why would we sole-source contracts to former senior staff without going to, at the very least, an RFP or tender?

The public asks us as political leaders to govern in a fashion that is fair, open, and transparent. We are the protectors of the public purse here in this Territory. With all of the latitude given to this current

cabinet to sole-source contracts to former staff, it is apparent that this Cabinet just does not care about what the public thinks or what I or other Regular Members think about their addiction to sole-sourcing contracts to former senior staff. Why is this happening when the work should rightfully go to RFP? If the government listens, they might actually get a more thoughtful and better product at the end of the day.

I have some very grave concerns over the contract to coordinate the Northwest Territories cultural participation at the Vancouver Olympics. Why was this contract sole-sourced and for how much? I will have questions at the appropriate time.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Some researchers from famous American universities and large management consulting firms were interested in why public sector projects sometimes fail. They studied 75 major initiatives since World War II and found that three major problems are caused with well-meaning endeavours and it caused them to fail time and time again.

The first problem is known as design free. The project looked great in theory, but when everyone supported it and it moved forward, it certainly was unworkable in the real world.

The second problem was overconfidence. No one took the possibility of failure seriously. The budget was unrealistic, the timelines were impossible, and there certainly was no backup plan.

The third problem was complacency. This is when the government does something poorly simply because that’s all it knows. It seems to me that the Deh Cho Bridge in some fashion has plugged into these plagues in one various way or the other.

Mr. Speaker, for facts here, the legislation was passed to build the bridge back in the 14th Assembly. It was hailed at that time as a great leap forward on this particular project. Then, Mr. Handley and his Cabinet in the 15th Legislative

Assembly went alone and entered into a Concession Agreement at the last hours of their government as it ticked away, and, of course, the express overwhelming confidence of this project, which in essence isn’t really on record for the fact that it’s tied the hands of this government.

Now, we all know about the glitches of the Concession Agreement along with the zero support from Ottawa, which I would define is truly the real scandal. Where is Ottawa’s help on this project?

Mr. Speaker, we know that the Minister of Transportation in our 16th Assembly is working hard

to help through this project with the cost overruns, and is now, through our time-tested process, as usual, is calling upon Members to ask us for $15 million more in supplementary funding. Mr. Speaker, I will agree that in no way a 9 percent increase to this project should be viewed as a scandal in any way. It should not be painted in that fact, because most of our public projects have bigger bumps that they’ve ridden through. But, Mr. Speaker, the Deh Cho Bridge Project has been fraught with challenges from the beginning. I wonder if it ever got off on the right foot.

Mr. Speaker, our choice is clear right now. We must find a way to complete this project, the challenge before us. Mr. Speaker, I’ll have questions for the Minister of Transportation about what have we learned to make sure this project does not fall off the rails again, and certainly what is being done to get money from Ottawa to help us support this project that needs to be built as infrastructure in the NWT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One more time I’m going to stand up in the House and I’m going to speak to the accomplishments of Brendan Green, and this in the context of a day on Friday, February 26th , when Brendan will compete

at the Olympics in the Men’s Biathlon Relay Competition.

Mr. Speaker, in honouring this and sending our best wishes to Brendan for this competition, people in Hay River in the schools, in the businesses and in many other places will be wearing something green on Friday. So, Mr. Speaker, although we are not allowed to have props in the Legislature, I would like today to also challenge my colleagues here in the Legislature as a show of support for our young Olympian from Hay River to possibly look through your wardrobe and if you could find something green to wear on Friday, I think that would be a tremendous show of support for Brendan, and we wish him all the best.

Just getting to the Olympics, Mr. Speaker, of course, is a tremendous achievement. I know there’s been a little bit of disappointment in some of the Canadians on the part of owning the podium, but, you know, we are still hopeful for Brendan and the Biathlon Team. But whatever they do, we will still remain very proud and supportive of his achievements to date. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. People are drawing a lot of attention lately to the cost of living. Frustration has spawned a Facebook page, public meetings, and you can’t see the news without hearing the words “high cost of living.” I want to recognize this initiative and respond to it.

The cost of living being too high means living pay cheque to pay cheque, never getting ahead of the bills, holding multiple jobs, and no savings for emergencies or the future. Fifty percent of small community households have an annual income of less than $30,000 and much of their housing is in poor or uninhabitable condition. Even people with greater incomes in lower cost communities are struggling with the high costs of today.

There are two important government responses that can significantly address the high cost of living. First, get rid of poverty. If acted upon, the House call for poverty reduction by integrating services such as child care, education and literacy training, community and individual healing will go a long way in helping both the working poor and easing abject poverty. With success, people will have greater ability to pay bills and get ahead, they will pay more taxes and start more businesses, and they will need less government support, all of which are important contributions to lowering the cost of living.

The second responsibility we have is to address one of the biggest pressures people are pointing to as the cause of their inability to meet their costs: energy bills. Energy costs are part of essentially every aspect of our lives. Fortunately, there are ways that we can provide cheaper energy that will also provide more employment and business opportunities and real environmental benefits. Rather than pursue these in a meaningful way however, government does endless reviews and opaque shifting of costs that ultimately benefits nobody.

In the coming days I will speak in depth to these shortcomings and missed opportunities for friendlier energy and how our energy supply system must be fundamentally revised to achieve meaningful advances in our fight against the high cost of living. Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I’d like to welcome anyone in the gallery today. I hope you’re enjoying the proceedings. Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said in my Member’s statement, I believe that the Deh Cho Bridge process has had many challenges. Mr. Speaker, I also want to clearly say that I don’t think a 9 percent increase on this project is a scandal, by any measure. Mr. Speaker, what I think is the true scandal of this project is where is Ottawa’s help on this potential project. I’d like to ask the Minister of Transportation, when was the last time Ottawa was asked for money to help support this project? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for Transportation, Mr. Michael McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my information tells me that the last time a request was put into the federal government was in the life of the last government. It was brought initially forward to the Transportation people and I think the issue was then moved to the Finance department. In the government we have not sought to renew that request. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I’d like to know why hasn’t a financial contribution to this project been pursued at our ministerial or Premier level to the federal government, again, to support the cost of this project. Why hasn’t anything been pursued since? Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, the indications that we had from the federal government was that either this project to have to move forward as a P3, because the project had started already prior to the P3 program becoming active and having the board set up, we didn’t qualify. We had been also asked to be considering using the Building Canada funding for the bridge if we thought that his was a high enough priority. At the time it was decided that there were many other projects that could utilize the Building Canada funds, therefore, that’s where we would invest, as the bridge project already had financing arranged. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, my clear evidence of this House, many Members asked many questions repeatedly. Not just once. Not just twice. Not over one year. Not over five years; maybe even longer than that. Mr. Speaker, the point being is that many Members continue to challenge that mighty mountain by raising an issue up and saying we’re not going to give up. So has the government given up on Ottawa, and if they haven’t given up on Ottawa, when can we expect another letter asking for financial support for this particular project? Because I can guarantee you that there is no

infrastructure project across Canada of this nature that would be left in the dark by Ottawa’s support. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, right now we don’t have any current plans to be formulating a request to Ottawa. We don’t see a program that would allow us to have any dollars invested from the federal government. However, having said that, I don’t think that it would stop any informal discussions with the federal Ministers to see if there are any potential avenues for them to invest. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’ve explained that I believe this is where one of our serious problems lies. Would the Minister commit to this House to work with the Premier to make sure we get a letter off to Ottawa, whether it be the Prime Minister, one of the infrastructure Ministers, whether it’s the Finance Minister? Personally, I don’t really care who. The fact is we need to make sure we get a letter to one, if not all of them, explaining how important this project is to this Territory. Would the Minister make sure, loud and clear in this House, that he’ll commit that a letter of this nature will get done right away? Thank you.

I certainly can commit to working with the Premier to see what options there are and what involvement the federal government could be requested to assist us with in this situation.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Earlier today I spoke of the core need of the NWT Housing Corporation. I have questions for the Minister.

I realize that in five years, 2004 to 2009, this government has had at least six Ministers. I’m just making that point to see if the government is trying to maybe stay with one Minister to try to get things resolved.

I’d like to ask the Minister, in his year of being Minister of NWT Housing Corporation, if he has determined why the Housing Needs Survey has grown in the last five to six years.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are many reasons that the core need would rise. It’s not just a matter of putting the product on the ground. The affordability is a

contributing factor; suitability of housing and adequacy. We’ve taken steps to address the core need. With the money that’s been invested by the federal government and matched by this government, we’re quite confident that within a year or two we’ll have addressed or made a serious dent in the core needs in the communities.

The Minister speaks of the money that’s going to be coming to the corporation over the next couple of years or so. Has the Minister looked at what exactly would be needed to lower core need? Has he taken a good comprehensive look at what is needed to lower core need?

We have a pretty good idea that we know what it will take to address core need. That’s why the corporation, using the money that is due to run out next year -- the federal infrastructure money is due to run out in 2010-2011 -- we’re taking steps to channel a lot of that money into the communities with the highest core need so we’d be able to address a lot of the issues, whether it be major M and I projects, which is one of the contributing factors to the high number of core need, talking about the adequacy. We’re taking steps to address that and there’s a huge investment being made in repair projects across the Northwest Territories.

The Minister speaks of a strategy and knowing what it takes to lower core need. Does the Minister actually have a strategy to address core needs in the small communities, to address the communities that have the highest core need? Has the corporation developed an actual strategy to address that issue?

The strategy that we have to address core need is to make an investment in the communities with the highest core need. We’re quite confident that will address a lot of the issues as far as core need goes. We have about a year and a half left of the federal money they have invested plus what we’ve contributed. Since 2004-2005 we’ve actually invested about $224 million into trying to address this and the money has gone to a lot of the communities that are in highest need. That is our strategy for the next couple of years, is to take what we’ve learned from the Community Needs Survey and allocate money based on the numbers that we receive.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for that response. Will the Minister do a complete review of the NWT Housing Corporation’s programs and policies with means of lowering core need and developing programs that can be delivered effectively in the small communities?

We’re always looking at ways that we can bring the core need numbers down and the investment that we are making, whether it be in the public housing stock or through the Homeownership Programs. It’s an ongoing process. We’re always looking for ways that we can improve the delivery of our programs with the investment that we have. We’re quite confident that when we meet again next year for the budget session that some of our numbers should go down. The communities that need the most investment to bring their core need down will be getting the most investment. We’re quite confident that we’ll see a decline in the core need numbers. We also have to understand that affordability is a contributing factor to the core need numbers too. If the economy picks up, I think that plus the investment we’re making we’ll see the core needs start to come down.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Premier and they’re about the high cost of living today.

The group of citizens in Yellowknife, and perhaps across the Territories, are working through electronic means as well as individually and together have had a lot of press and a lot of profile. I certainly appreciate their initiative in discussing this and trying to come up with solutions.

I’m wondering what the government is doing to recognize this initiative and meet with this group of people. Have we met with them, made contact with them, and offered our perspectives and willingness to work with them?

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Although we’ve heard something of discussion out there about a group who has gone on-line to raise concerns about the high cost of energy there has been no request made to Members of this Cabinet nor, as is my understanding, to Regular Members as well.

I hope we don’t have to wait until somebody asks us to do something when we see a need out there. Obviously there’s been considerable press, as I’ve mentioned: radio coverage, newspaper coverage, electronic coverage. I was asking what initiative we have taken to step out and meet these people halfway. Perhaps the response I got means that we haven’t done that and I would ask if the Premier would be willing to get our government to actually do that, to recognize the citizen effort here and offer to meet with them.

The record will show that we’re not waiting for a request to do anything about this. In fact, previous governments have been dealing with the issue of the high cost of living in our communities in quite a number of ways. You can look at almost every department within the Northwest Territories where we are taking initiatives to try to help with the cost of living. Whether that is a fuel subsidy for seniors, property tax issues for seniors or income support basket for residents, our housing program helps deal with that. This government itself is looking at alternative energies and investing the dollars to look at alternative energies to help stabilize our costs or even reduce them. We’re taking quite a number of initiatives as a government to help with the cost of living issues in our communities. When it comes to the one group alone, no, we haven’t gone out to them. There are many groups out there we meet with on an ongoing basis to deal with the core need or high cost of living issues.

I appreciate that response from the Premier. I’m wondering what this government is doing to actually reduce the cost of living beyond buying out a reduction in the cost of living and putting it onto the back of our taxpayers indirectly, sort of hiding those costs in a way. Not that I don’t appreciate those programs; we need them as part of our strategy. But what are we doing to actually reduce the costs of services to our people and the cost of living directly?

This government has made huge investments in looking at alternative energies, that being some of the biggest cost drivers. When we looked at the overall impacts, two factors come to the forefront around the cost of living and that is transportation and energy costs. So we’re looking at expanding, for example, hydroelectricity to smaller hydro potential initiatives in our communities. So we’re pursuing that. We’re looking at wind energy. We’re looking at a number of other factors; biomass. But those are yet to come and have the potential to reduce the cost of living or stabilize it in our communities. The other area is, for example, on our winter roads or ice crossings, when we try to speed the acceleration to build up the ice crossings so that the trucks can get across and deliver goods to our communities

All of these, Mr. Speaker, require an infusion of cash to help makes things happen across the Territories and that still costs us. Many governments across this country look at subsidies for individuals to help offset. Even in Manitoba where there’s hydroelectricity, everybody pays the same cost, but we know that the cost of delivering service in remote communities is offset by those who live in the larger centres just because of the population base. So aside from what we’re doing, the energy review that’s happened, we’re working on our response and working with Members to

come forward on that to help stabilize the cost of living and energy in our more remote communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Once again, I appreciate the comments from the Premier. He named a lot of good programs that I’m hoping actually get on the ground and start to reduce our costs. But the phrase that caught my attention is yet to come. We’ve been talking about a lot of things. We’ve been planning a lot of things. Let’s just pick hydro, for example, I think eight, nine, 10 years we’ve been planning small hydro, small hydro, Mr. Speaker, in Lutselk'e and Whati. Yet, here we are spending more money and time thinking about it. When will people actually see these things on the ground in a way that starts reducing our costs? I recognize there are front-end costs to that, but we can’t keep studying these things to death, Mr. Speaker. When will it happen on the ground? Thank you.

At times it can be frustrating in trying to move things along, but in our style of working with our community governments and aboriginal leadership we have to work through a process. Hopefully, on the Lutselk'e project, for example, the mini-hydro there, we began to move that ahead at a faster pace. Whati is another area where we’re working on run-of-the-river technology. Some of the decisions that have to be made though are should we be looking at a bigger expansion or leave it to the community size when it comes to the hydro pieces. Biomass, when we look at replacement of diesel generators is the time to look at a natural conversion of those things so that we’re not having to duplicate the efforts or come up with additional cash when things are as they are. The yet-to-come benefits are the ones where those hydro projects are in or, for example, our runway expansions and our ice road technology improves. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Mr. Speaker, I’ve got some questions today and suppose I’ll ask them of the Premier. In getting back to my Member’s statement, I wanted to talk about sole-sourcing contracts to former deputy ministers. I’d like to begin by asking the Premier if there is any political direction given from his Cabinet when it comes to sole-sourcing contracts to former deputy ministers. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have a number of contracting methods as the Government of the Northwest Territories -- sole-sourcing is one of them, negotiated contracts, RFP, public tender -- and we use all of those in a range of accessing services, whether it was with past employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories. We don’t give a specific direction and each department has these ways of seeking whether it’s a sole-source or a tender process. But departments have that initiative that they can use. When they come forward to request exemption is when we would deal with it. Thank you.

One of the things that I want to talk about is the process here today on how it’s possible that former deputy ministers get sole-source contracts with this government, and it goes back to the reply to a written question asked by my colleague, Mr. Bromley on a contract with BDK Applied Management Services for consultation and communication services provided to the Department of Finance. I’m just wondering, Mr. Speaker, if we want to talk about process, what process is followed that allows contracts to be sole-sourced to former deputy ministers. What process is this Cabinet and government following when it comes to handing out contracts like that? Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, the process for seeking or sole-sourcing, again, depending on the initiatives that are there and, again, all of the requirements to fit into either sole-source or negotiated contracts all have limits that would apply before there’s direct involvement from a deputy minister level or coming to the Cabinet or FMB table. So there are a number of processes that would be involved, whether it is specifically an initiative from a department and a Minister right on through the whole system. So we have processes in place and those are used as we seek to get the work done of government. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, as I understand it, some of this work performed by BDK Applied Management Services for consultation and communications services is, in fact, for our participation in Vancouver at the 2010 Games. I’d like to ask the Premier -- we have known about our participation at Vancouver 2010 for a long period of time, and again, getting back to the process -- why didn’t this go to RFP or why didn’t it go to tender? Why was that sole-sourced, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, the work at the Olympics was one where it’s pan-territorial, so any initiative under that would have worked through the system of deputies that we had in place, and, again, involved the other territories. So I’ll get all the information on that.

By the way, just coming back from the NWT Day, it was a huge success, so our program delivered in Vancouver is getting the attention of the world as the Olympics goes on. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, know the work that’s been done down in Vancouver with Northern House and our participation there has been good. I’m not talking about that, Mr. Speaker, I’m talking about a process that’s allowed a former deputy minister to get a sole-source contract with this government. By the sounds of it, the Premier is saying that he’s got this working group of deputy ministers that review former deputy ministers. I think, Mr. Speaker, there’s something wrong with that. Will the Premier commit to having a look at the policy when it comes to sole-sourcing contracts to former deputy ministers and senior staff? Thank you.

Let’s be clear, though, the Olympics side of it, I don’t believe there’s a tie between what the Member has raised as a sole-source contract and the actual Olympic program that’s in place. For deputy ministers and senior staff of the Government of the Northwest Territories, past, that is, we can definitely sit down at some point and set some time up to go through the policies of this government. We’re using what’s been in place. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one of the prevailing issues that keep coming across my desk, whether I’m getting a phone call, a letter or an e-mail, Mr. Speaker, is medical travel. That, as well, seems to be fraught with challenges. I’d like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services what is she doing to lead some type of initiative that clears this up. Because medical travel seems to be a challenging issue and it appears, clearly, that it’s complicated as well. So what initiatives are being done to examine medical travel and make sure it’s clearly laid out for the public what they qualify for and don’t qualify for? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The rules are quite clear about what our residents are eligible for. If they are getting medical or doctor services, they get medical travel associated with that, and there are some extended health benefits

where they will be entitled to medical travel. So without more specific information, I’m not sure if I know what the Member is referring to. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister I believe last week, in response to one of my questions, said medical travel is under review. I’m just wondering what is specifically “under review.” We’ve even got a letter that had been sent not that long ago to our offices that said it’s being reviewed. So what type of review process is medical travel under at this time, and is the Medical Travel Policy posted for all who wish to see it on either a website or some type of government access? Thank you.

Absolutely, there is detailed information on the Department of Health and Social Services’ website on the Medical Travel Policy and what the public needs to know about what it does. The same with the extended health benefits or any other programs and services that the department provides.

The review we are undertaking doesn’t have to do with who qualifies for medical travel or not because that part is clear. What we want to do is to make sure that our system is working the way it was meant to be, that everyone who is eligible for service get them in a way that is smooth, and that our practitioners are keeping in close touch with the files so that there’s seamless service delivery to our residents, that there is proper follow-up and checkup, and that when referrals are made that they are looked into. So we’re working to make sure that our system runs efficiently. Thank you.

I’d like to know what type of appeal process is involved in medical travel. In other words, if you’re denied housing, there’s a housing appeal; if you’re denied some other type, maybe educational subsidy or income support subsidy, there’s an appeal process. What type of appeal process is involved with medical travel other than having to run it up the flagpole to the Minister’s office every single time?

Under the current system there is no appeal process for medical travel. The way the system is set up is that the health insurance office looks at the policy, looks at the guidelines and they apply the policy accordingly.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m really glad to hear we have the policy office, because I suspect they never make a mistake so that’s why we have no appeal process. It’s sad to say that we don’t live in a perfect world, so I guess my question would be to the Minister, then, is what’s stopping us from setting up an appeal process if a person is denied medical travel so we don’t have to drag it to the Assembly floor time after time after time again and we can deal with it

probably in a peer review process, especially when a lot of things are denied when they have medical letters supported by doctors’ signatures that say that they need something done? Mr. Speaker, what’s stopping the Minister from setting up an appeal process? Thank you.

I think we should be mindful of the fact that we serve about 40,000 people in the Territories and by and large the service delivery goes smoothly. I do appreciate that I get a number of files across my desk and the MLAs get them as well. But if you compare that, a few dozen a year to 40,000-plus people that we serve, and the satisfaction reports that we’ve been getting, I think the service is satisfactory that way.

Now, people are always not going to like being told that they can’t take medical travel for this and that, and it might not have anything to do with the fact of whether it’s right or not. It’s just the fact of being told you can’t do it. But according to the policy, in fact, they might not be eligible for that service because it’s not something that we cover under the program. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just had a few more questions that I wanted to ask pertaining to former deputy ministers being hired by sole-source contract by this government. I’m just wondering if the Premier could let me know if there’s a cooling off period for former DMs and senior staff before they are sole-sourced by this government. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, there is a cooling off period for DMs. I’ll have to check on the senior management file. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I was wondering, again getting back to… Again, this is about process, Mr. Speaker. The sole-source contract to BDK, I’m just wondering whether that cooling off period was respected and I want to ask the Premier, was there any discussion at the Cabinet table about the sole-source contract to this company. Was there any political involvement in the hiring through sole-source of this company?

Mr. Speaker, when departments fall within the policy that is in place, there is no purpose for it to come to Cabinet except, for example, negotiated contracts and, again, depending on the dollar value of that. Let’s be clear so we don’t muddy the waters when it comes to the Olympics. There was an RFP, is my understanding,

for that Olympic process that went out there again in conjunction with our partner territories. But when it comes to department initiatives, if they fit within the policy and the approval limits, then that’s just normal course of business that’s out there. Thank you.

I wanted to follow up on that and I just wanted to get some clarity here so that I’m sure how this works and the public is sure how it works. Who ultimately makes the call on hiring a former deputy minister through a sole-source contract? Is it the other deputy minister, their former colleague, or is it the Minister of the department that makes that call, Mr. Speaker? I just wanted to be clear on that question. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, the approval process is laid out. There are some dollar figures. So a contract could be let at a community or regional level and it could be let to a past employee of the Government of the Northwest Territories if they’re a year, two years, five years, ten years. As the record shows, and public accounts and our contracts document shows that there’s been those, an example of those, used by governments throughout different Assemblies on that initiative. Again, it depends on the dollar value. You could have directors issuing a contract all the way up to deputy ministers as well as up to Minister’s approval. So there are different steps. Again, without getting into details, this is the best we can do in providing you information. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to thank the Premier for that response, but I didn’t really get an answer that was satisfactory. Does the Minister of the various departments that’s giving out the contract, do they get involved in the decision to sole-source a contract to a former deputy minister? I think that’s a very straightforward question, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, on a normal course of business, when a deputy minister wants to inform the Minister of different contracts being issued that might cause some concern, they raise it to that level. So, yes, the Minister’s office can get involved in issuing a contract as the process allows for. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Premier as well. I want to follow up on the questions I asked over the last number of months on sole-source contracting. Obviously it

was quite a concern and we had some really good examples. I happened to be dealing with Ministers; now we’re dealing with deputy ministers and high-level bureaucrats. What steps has the Premier taken since we’ve raised these issues and the obvious concern of both the Members of the House and the public? What steps has the Premier taken to tighten up and review, perhaps review and tighten up, the contracting procedures? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have had no one from the public contact me or my office specifically; the issue has come from the Assembly here. We continue to use the policies that are in place. Any change in policy, we have a process where we go back to Members of the Assembly. If there’s a request by committee to look at that, we’ll take a look at that, as I responded earlier in an earlier question. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would say the request has been quite plain and already on the Premier’s plate for some time now, probably through committee too. So I’d like specifics. That there is no concern out there is clearly not correct, if the Premier reads the newspaper and so on. I’m hoping he will tell us what he plans to do, if he actually has not done anything yet, to review and tighten up this process for sole-source contracting.

We could create policy on the fly here if that’s what Members like. There’s a process for dealing with policy and there’s also the Financial Administration Act that’s in place that stipulated levels of authority for contracting. There’s a Financial Administration Manual that is a part of the process. That work is actually ongoing from the Department of Finance looking at the Financial Administration Act and the FAM, as we call it, or Financial Administration Manual. That’s being looked at overall in the government how we contract. For the actual policies themselves, there are issues and questions that have been raised by Members but I can’t recall and I’d have to go back to the paperwork to see if there’s an actual letter saying a requested revision of those policies. But right now, the Financial Administration Act itself is undergoing work, as along with that is the Financial Administration Manual.

I appreciate the comments from the Premier there. What would the Premier say is the best process for Members to take here to get that review and revision happening, recognizing that of course there is a Financial Administration Act and a process described, but then there’s the actual implementation of it in a way that does not favour those with previous relationships with the government or whatever.

Let’s be clear that again, with a Territory our size and the delivery of

programs as complex as they are, we go out there at times for public tender, RFPs, RFQs, sole-sourced contracts as is the example being used today. We try to deliver the programs and services that we’re expected to deliver. It is a challenging environment. We go through a number of phases and processes of ensuring that we can get the work done and even though people who have worked for the Government of the Northwest Territories in the past, they still need to earn a living if they are to remain in the Northwest Territories. So whether it’s with our government or an aboriginal government, we should recognize that. When it comes to the actual process to use and where we go, well, everything that we do as a government will flow out of the Financial Administration Act. So that would be the first big ticket item that we would look at and how we work and how we let contracts. From there our policies are formed. So I would say that avenue of the Financial Administration Act, then the manual, and then our policies. When it comes to the interpretation of those, well, that’s a day-by-day task and as Members are holding us to account on that even in today’s session.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Obviously the proof is in the pudding. The public is very upset about the sole-sourced contracting that’s going on. There are generally many examples, and we’ve brought them to the Premier before and we’ll bring them to him again, of work that could be done by many that’s sole sourced. Last session, I believe, I raised a number of specific issues. For example, letting go identical contracts for the exact same work and the exact same time frame and letting them out on sole-sourced basis. What’s more specific than that? I’d like to ask, will the Premier be doing some sort of assessment to see what the additional cost of all this sole sourcing is and likely lower quality work than if it had been put out on a competitive basis?

I know the Member is very adept at looking at how we do things as a government and his professional expertise in areas, but he seems to cover quite an area from climate change expertise right down to now contracting, and if in fact the work that we get is quality work or not. We can debate that quality here and we do that. The issues of the work we do as a government, the nature of that work that needs to get done and the timing of that all comes into place when we make decisions. In fact, again, the Member says that the public is outraged at this or very concerned about that. Between an editorial and a number of questions in here, that’s one thing we need to deal with. Yes, we do look into those and provide information on that. But let’s be clear that at times the best experts are the ones who have experience in how we deliver programs and

services. At times the best expertise would be those where the Minister or department feel confident in the work that needs to be done and the speed it needs to be done so we can get things happening with ourselves, with the federal government, with aboriginal governments and so on. So there are times when we do use that process of sole-source contracting.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. From time to time this particular issue comes up and it’s a question about third-party insurance providers. The question really comes up in the context of whether or not the GNWT accesses that opportunity to help stave off some of the costs that are incurred at Stanton Hospital. Where this specifically arises is if somebody arrives at Stanton and one of the questions quite often asked was, were you hurt at work. So in other words, WCB starts to pick up some of these costs. Of course, then it doesn’t fall on the typical shoulders of our public purse because we have a WCB process that will help with those charges.

I’d like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services what other third-party costs we reach out to help cover some of our costs of health care.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think third-party insurance is something that we will be discussing more and more over the next number of weeks as we do public discussion on the supplementary health benefits. We have done a user profile analysis and we have learned that third-party insurance, when we are talking about third-party insurance we’re not talking about the insurance program that government could enter into but third-party insurance that every individual has access to. Third-party insurance could be WCB, but it could also be employer insurance. If you work for the government or major companies, many of the employers offer insurance as part of their package. There are some private businesses and individuals who choose to take third-party insurance for whatever reason. The information we’ve learned from our research in this area, is that for the NWT residents there are only about 40 percent of people who take advantage of third-party insurance or have third-party insurance, whereas in other provinces we think that it would be up to 70 percent or 80 percent of people at least who would have access or choose to take that, because they would

need to do that because the government programs are not as generous.

I appreciate the answer from the Minister. When I say this it is not directed at the Minister, it’s the problem. I want to say this can’t be actually taken lightly. People have to be well aware that we could actually be saving a lot of money out of the public purse if we considered this opportunity and in many cases a reality. Is there a policy within the Department of Health and Social Services that when somebody arrives at Stanton or any other health centres, one of the first questions in their information forms that they fill out is do you have third-party insurance that could cover these costs that work with the public health process that we would normally pick up? In essence, I want to ask if we’re asking the people who show up if they have third-party insurance.

I think the Member may be moving ahead of himself there. I guess we could always ask the individuals, but I think we should also recognize that it’s not entirely the individual’s fault in the way we have such a low rate of people having third-party insurance. We have a system where the government pays for core health care services, which is the case all across Canada and we’re not going to change that. But we have historically covered for all of the extended health benefits that an insurance company would do in southern jurisdictions. So there have been no incentives for residents to seek third-party insurance. It’s a shame, really, because those options are available and if the people needed to do it, I’m sure they would look into it more. But we have just built in this incentive and we need to have that conversation with the public.

Actually, I’ve been trying to whittle down to the exact area I’m getting to and I think we’ve now reached the point. I definitely believe heart of hearts that the public system is truly the backstop of what needs to be out there, and by no means am I suggesting that the public system should erode. What I’ve really been trying to whittle down to is this particular point: if somebody arrives at Stanton today and is in a car accident, we don’t ask them if they have third-party insurance. Yet everybody driving a car, in that car, legally, of course, is supposed to have insurance. So in other words, those insurance companies are getting off the hook because the public system is so gracious to cover their costs. But every year people’s insurance goes up and up and up on costs. So my problem really comes down to this: why does our territorial health policy not take into consideration these types of problems of saying, well, wait a minute, you’re legally mandated to have third-party insurance in this particular case such as auto insurance. Why don’t we tap into that first, because they’re already paying for it?

I’m not sure if the Member is asking me about requiring people to have auto insurance. I’m thinking that he’s concentrating on the health insurance. No, we don’t have a system right now where a person goes into...unless they don’t have NWT health care, in which case we’d be interested in how they’re going to pay for it out of their health insurance coverage or their own pocket. As we have the system now, we do not ask people whether they have third-party insurance, because they have never really had to because the GNWT covers for all of their health care if they are eligible under specific conditions or if they’re seniors or if they’re indigent. In fact, we top up those who have third-party insurance for the percentage that they’re not covered with their insurance companies. We are looking to speak to the public about the necessity to consider having third-party coverage for those who can do it. For those who are not eligible because of their condition or because they can’t afford it, then, of course, government will always be there as the safety net to those who need it the most.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With all due respect, I don’t think the Minister sees what I’m trying to get at, which is the fact that I agree that the public system is there to top up, I agree that the public system is to back up the person as the backstop, and I definitely agree that the public system is the safety net provided to all our citizens. My fear is that we’re leaving potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars or even up to millions of dollars over the course of a number of years that we’re not tapping into the third-party insurance that is legally mandated. I’m not asking her to make sure that people who are driving cars have insurance. I’m telling you the cars that are supposed to be legally on the road are supposed to have insurance. That’s the issue. So there’s insurance covering them so if there’s an accident that person already has insurance for those health-related services. Why aren’t we tapping into that opportunity? That’s the issue. That’s what I’m trying to get at.

I’ll have to find out if our facilities ask in cases where the persons coming in are injured as a result of an accident and whether there might be health care coverage that they should be accessing first. They might be doing that already. I don’t know exactly how it works on the ground. I will ask what questions the providers ask when people come in.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to ask some questions to the Minister of youth. Over the weekend I had the pleasure of watching the hand games. At the hand games they had a lot of youth that were involved in the tournament. I want to ask the Minister of Youth on the involvement of youth more into the hand games, if there is some type of avenue that the communities can take to involve the youth almost on more of a territorial level youth hand games tournament with his staff working with the different organizations in the Sahtu communities.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for Youth, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Involving the youth in the hand games tournament would be something that I think we would encourage the communities to do and a lot of the elders. There are many programs out there that if the funding meets the criteria, then we’d be able to assist them. Thank you.

The funding in terms of accessing funding, there are various programs that Sport North and other organizations have that sometimes it becomes very difficult in terms of accessing funding for the youth. I wonder if the Minister then could possibly look at maybe one of the organizations from the Sahtu communities looking at the funding and how we can get a youth hand game tournament in the region. Again, we could have about 40 teams participating.

There are many different areas of youth funding available across the Northwest Territories. We get applications from a lot of groups that are interested in hosting different activities. Again, if it meets the criteria, we have funded a lot of youth programs in the past and this is something that working with the regions and working with the folks in the regions is something we are looking at doing again. If it fits all the criteria, then normally they would get funding, but there are many different pots out there, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.