This is page numbers 6245 - 6300 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was agreed.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The Member is throwing accusations out there and talking about ethics and I take offense to that. All the proper processes were followed, it came down to -- and I’ve heard from folks in Norman Wells -- the fact they just don’t like it and in the words of one member of the Norman Wells Community Council, we got beat to the punch. That’s the basis for all of this. If there needs to be a transparent review of how this land was disposed of, we welcome that, because all proper processes were followed. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you. Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, I disagree with the Minister. The community put in their interest for this land in 2002. So the Minister knows full well that they have expressed a long-term interest in this.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister has given away all of the land surrounding this community. There are no options for this community. Do we not have a fiduciary role to our municipalities and how much trust can we expect from our municipalities in the future as a result of this action? Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. The Member disagrees with the Minister because he doesn’t like it either, as he disagrees with a lot of

things that go on in this Legislative Assembly. Mr. Speaker, the land in question is not going to impede the Norman Wells community from expanding. There’s still plenty of Commissioner’s land within the municipal boundaries. The Norman Wells Land Corporation saw an opportunity to acquire some land for the future of their people and what they want to do with them, so they made application. The application was reviewed. Hereby they now have the land.

Again I say, Mr. Speaker, that all the proper processes in this particular case were followed and it just came down to the fact that they didn’t like it. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement today I talked about the concerns, but certainly with support, for the single bag program that really I think demonstrates good environmental stewardship and I think makes a lot of sense when it comes to plastic bags. I’ve heard a lot of people, if not every person I’ve spoken to on this particular issue, that they do support the initiative that is targeting plastic bags.

Mr. Speaker, where the concern arises from people is many people have been shocked, or certainly taken by surprise in one manner or another, that paper bags are included. I’m wondering if the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources can explain the rationale as to why paper bags were included in this particular levy when most people feel that they are recyclable and biodegradable and they don’t even meet what would be considered good stewardship of our environment. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When we looked at the lifecycle of the plastic bag, the paper bag and even the ones that are called biodegradable bags and compared it to the lifecycle of reusable bags, clearly all three were found wanting in comparison to the reusable, and that while paper may biodegrade in a landfill somewhat faster than other products, it takes more energy to produce and ship, it weighs more and in effect causes just as much waste or more than plastic because it’s bulkier. In fact, we have an initiative currently underway in its second phase where we are canvassing the North to see what interests there are and what options and innovations are there to deal with some of the

massive amounts of paper products that we now currently put into our landfills. This is one way to reduce some of that burden on our landfills. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. I wouldn’t disagree with the Minister on his comments about is it waste and is it needless waste, and I’m paraphrasing, in my own way, that more bags are probably bad. I think that that’s a common understanding out there, but the problem is, I don’t think people understood when they were supporting the bag levy process and certainly the reduction initiative, that paper bags were included in this particular initiative.

Mr. Speaker, in going forward on this particular case, is the Minister’s department going to do further work on this initiative? Would he be willing to inquire with the everyday citizen, and I’m trying to step aside from these special interest groups, would he inquire with the everyday citizen as to what type of cost this has on the lives of Northerners, what type of impact on the cost of living has it affected Northerners? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you. I would suggest it’s had a marginal and probably positive impact on the overall broad cost of living in the Northwest Territories. This is entirely a voluntary fee. People do not have to use plastic bags or buy bags at the store. As well, we also know that we are extending the life of our landfills, which has a significant cost for all of us who are dealing with Municipal and Community Affairs. You look at the cost of maintaining landfills and putting new ones in place, it is significantly less burden on the environment, as the Member himself pointed out in his comments, where you see bag products scattered across the landscape no matter which community or how far north, south, east or west you go.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Undoubtedly the Minister and I are certainly on the same page on this particular issue. I believe in the reduction initiative. That shouldn’t be confused over the concern that’s been raised to me, the fact that paper bags have been included. That’s really the particular issue, which is what type of consultation specifically pointed to paper bags would be part of the reduction initiative that the 25 cent levy would be applied to them outside of the average special interest group which was fully in support of banning practically everything.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

The work we’ve done in this area has been I think very successful. There’s been significant consultation and the recognition that there are, in this particular issue, three types of bags that are clogging up the landfills and scattered across the countryside. Paper, while in some people’s mind it may be something that’s seen as what’s the problem, is very energy intensive, it’s bulky, it takes up a lot of

waste that when you combine it with all the other paper product waste -- for example, the tons and tons of paper generated by business and government or the wastepaper products with cardboard in them -- it’s an enormous impact and negative impact on our environment. This adds together to help us address that issue.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m in full support of reduction where we can and certainly where it makes sense. The question I really have now for the Minister is: is part of this program, what type of analysis and evaluation was ever taken into consideration about the spurred off, unforeseen industry of making all these recyclable bags that people now have tons of and in the sense that instead of using paper bags as a clear, biodegradable, environmentally sound, reasonable option, a lot of people are now buying all these multiple bags or getting stuck with them when they go to conferences and meetings? It’s created an industry in itself. Did the department do any type of evaluation in that regard?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I will commend the Member for taking full advantage of the niche opportunity that appeared as I am as well a personal recipient of some of the bags that he’s put out as Member for Yellowknife Centre. I think he’s to be commended for that. We know just on the plastic bags alone, that we’ve eliminated millions and millions and millions of bags from the environment and replaced them with reusable bags that have a much greater life expectancy and are reusable. I think it’s a very good step and I know the Member fully supports that.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services and follow up on my Member’s statement. I know we have a lot of hard decisions coming at us with respect to health and social services as the system evolves and becomes more affordable. Clearly, without question, our training programs need to be considered and reviewed as well. I just want to make sure that we’re reviewing them with full knowledge.

As I’ve indicated earlier, the CHN development program, the stats speak for themselves. Things like the NP are a little bit more questionable and I think if we’re going to be reviewing things like the NP program, or, rather, the department’s going to

be reviewing the NP program, we need to make sure that we’re doing it fairly. The intent of the program and what the college is doing is northern training for northern nurses for northern jobs is why we’re running the Nurse Practitioner Program. The college is doing that, there’s no question in my mind. Health and social services on the other side has to employ these nurse practitioners. I’m not sure that is necessarily happening.

My question for the Minister is: what is the Department of Health and Social Services doing, what work are they doing with the nurse practitioner students currently at Aurora College to help them transition into northern employment with us as nurse practitioners? What is the department doing? Have they met with the students? Are they doing grad placement with them? How are they going to ensure that those northern nurses practise nurse practitioner in the Northwest Territories?

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to thank the Member for the information he provided in his Member’s statement, because it is information that we are aware of. We had our briefing session on that. We are aware of the successes and challenges in the human resource programs that we have for the health care professionals. As the Member stated, I’d like to confirm that we are reviewing the program. We have to look at it fairly and comprehensively because we do have limited dollars, but at the same time we need to meet our priorities. So we will continue with that review.

With respect to the Nurse Practitioner Program, obviously I’m very interested in making sure that the program we fund to train these people will translate into employable positions within our system. We will evaluate that and monitor that and take actions accordingly.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thanks to the Minister for that. My question was a little bit more focused on the current class. Right now if we’re going to evaluate the Nurse Practitioner Program and the end result is that the northern nurses don’t want to work in the Northwest Territories, I question the value of the program at all. If it turns out that the northern nurses do want to practise as nurse practitioners in the Northwest Territories but we’re not offering them employment, that doesn’t mean the program is a failure, it means we haven’t done our job of helping them transition in.

I talked to one of the nurse practitioners this weekend and she indicated to me that nobody from the department has talked to them at all. Nobody’s gone to the school to talk to the nurse practitioners about future employment. If we’re going to fairly assess this program and evaluate its future, I think

we need to make every effort to make sure that we’re meeting with those people and helping them transition into employment to meet the need and intent of the program as it was originally designed.

Going back to my original question: is the department planning to go to the college and meet with these students and talk about future employment for nurse practitioners outside of Yellowknife? Hay River, Fort Smith, Inuvik, smaller communities? Even Yellowknife. Is that going to happen?

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

Placing all of those nurse practitioner grads into our system would require partnership between the department and the government as an employer and the graduating students. I could tell you that we have a history of really good work in employing those nurse practitioners coming out of Aurora College. We have enough nurse practitioner positions within the whole Territory to employ every one of them if they wanted a job. It is difficult to always match nurse practitioners and other health care professionals who graduate from our education system into the exact positions and communities that they would like to have.

Earlier in the House I committed to meeting with the nurse graduates of Aurora College. I’ve e-mailed them and they said they’ll get back to me. They were very excited to hear about that. I would commit to doing the same thing with the nurse practitioners.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I fully understand the challenges of trying to place nurses and nurse practitioners in the system and I’m very pleased that the Minister is committing to meet with or have her staff meet with the nurse practitioner students. I know they’d like that as well.

Secondary, sort of, to this is the IAP Program, it’s delivered by the same instructors who deliver the Nurse Practitioner Program and it’s all interrelated with the Community Health Nurse Development Program. For instance, IAP is an integral part to the CHN Development Program. My question to the Minister is: after the assessment, if the program is going to be eliminated, Nurse Practitioner, will there be additional consideration given the IAP to make sure that we continue to deliver it in some capacity? We need to think long term on this one. This is long-term planning. That program is critical. All nurses that work in health centres need it or should have it. The CHN Development Program is dependent on it. I’d like to know that it’s going to be given some consideration separate and above and apart from the Nurse Practitioner Program as well.

Sandy Lee

Sandy Lee Range Lake

The short answer is yes, we would review each program separately and give them all due consideration. Just for the record, I think we should make it clear that a decision has not been made to discontinue the Nurse

Practitioner Program. We did let them know that current funding commitment is until 2012 but, as the Member knows, because we had an in-depth briefing, we are reviewing the entire, well, we’re reviewing the Human Resource Training Program that we have with Department of Health and Social Services, not only because we’re always under financial constraints, but also because we want to make sure that the people we train are in line with the demands of the jobs that our system needs.

As I stated in our briefing session, we do need nurses and there are practitioners, but we’re also in need of other health care professionals such as home care workers, dental therapists. We need more people to be trained in counselling. We need personal attendants to get ready for the two long-term care facilities that we’re building in Behchoko and Norman Wells. As the Minister and as a department and as the government, we want to review who we are training so that they’re in line with the needs of jobs that are coming forward for the next number of years.

The Speaker

The Speaker Paul Delorey

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Final supplementary, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I agree with everything that the Member is saying. We have to look at the system as a whole. I think that’s where I started my whole statement from. What I’m suggesting now is that it’s important when you’re looking at the NP and IAP as one program that you don’t think of them just as one program. They are two different programs and they need to be considered that way. Ultimately I support the Nurse Practitioner Program and don’t want to see it go anywhere. My question to the Minister was: will she look at the IAP as part of the whole, but also as an independent, important aspect of a separate program, the Community Health Nurse Program?