This is page numbers 6849 - 6882 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was safety.

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Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, on my left is Mr. Russell Neudorf, deputy minister of the Department of Transportation. On my right is Ms. Kelly McLaughlin -- sorry, Mr. Chairman, on my right is Ian Rennie, legislative counsel with the Department of Justice.

---Laughter

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Welcome, witnesses. General comments. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think it’s a good thing that the Minister is not sitting in a car.

---Laughter

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’d like to say at the outset that I’m extremely pleased to see that these amendments have finally come to this point. I think it’s a good start. I am one of those people who believe that we ought to be also legislating against the use of hands-free devices in a vehicle. They’ve been proven to be as distracting as many other things. I know the Minister feels that it is covered under the Motor Vehicles Act under penalties for distracted driving. I would hope that in a year or two’s time that we will do an evaluation of the effect of this particular change in our Motor Vehicles Act and that we will evaluate the effect that banning cell phones has had and consider banning hands-free as well.

I think it’s important to note that the NWT Association of Communities supports this bill and they wrote to committee and also, I believe, to the Minister, to express that support. They represent all of our communities and I think this is an issue that is going to affect all NWT residents no matter where they reside.

I also noted at the end of June of this year there was a little note in the Yellowknifer paper on the 29

of June from the RCMP urging motorists not to

use cell phones, that summer was coming up and kids were out of school. They, as well, recognized the dangers of driving and using cell phones at the same time. They see the results of accidents that occur. It’s a small wonder that the RCMP is supporting this kind of a change.

Certainly I will not be voting against this motion, but again I do hope that in a couple of years’ time there is an evaluation of the effect that this ban is having on our traffic accidents, and that we will then consider to make it even more restrictive for people driving distractedly and put greater penalties in place.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I’ll allow for all the individuals to make general comments and then we’ll go to the Minister for responses. Next I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this opportunity to comment on this legislation. I want to start by saying that I’m pleased to see this legislation come forward. This legislation does begin to address the many, many constituent concerns that have been raised from my Weledeh constituents who have had near misses as they’re walking along the road, some in vehicles. This is a real concern and I believe this is a sincere effort on the side of the department to address this.

Unfortunately, however -- and I cite largely the material provided by the department here -- this doesn’t go far enough. Citing from these documents, the first thing I want to note is that a consistent message in the literature is that hands-free cell phone use when driving is no safer than handheld use.

Parsing into that a little bit and looking at the credibility of the research behind that statement, I want to note that the Canadian Automobile Association, the CAA, has argued that it is not enough to ban drivers from using handheld cell phones, because research shows that hands-free devices are just as dangerous. My concern here is that our public will have a false sense of security. I want to basically let them know that this is a good start but they cannot afford to let their guard down when they’re out walking, because of this legislation. There’s no evidence that this goes far enough.

Another example, the most recent study published on January 29, 2010, by the U.S. Highway Loss Data Institute highlights the concern that handheld cell phone bans offer little real safety benefit. The department has also provided me with information research from the American Automobile Association Foundation for Traffic Safety which has shown that drivers have a false perception that hands-free devices are safer. They point out that the conversation is the primary distraction and not the device itself.

Complicating the use or the matter of parsing this out is the lack of statistics respecting how effective the law is in reducing the number of jurisdictions. So whereas research shows this it’s very difficult to demonstrate it on the basis of statistics, that’s largely because there are no jurisdictions currently collecting specific data on collisions caused by cell

phone use. I want to acknowledge that that is a challenge. What is tragic here is that I have not yet heard the Minister commit to any effort to gather statistics for the basis of an evaluation on which this legislation could be improved, if the evaluation demonstrates it needs to be. Having made this point, I want to ask the Minister again, will the department collect the appropriate statistics to enable them to evaluate the effect of this legislation and return to it to bump it up as that evaluation indicates.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Next I have Mr. Abernethy and Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Excuse me, Mr. Chair. I’d like an answer to that question.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

We were going through...

---Interjection

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

As we began, I noted, after Ms. Bisaro, that I will allow all individuals to speak and allow the Minister to answer the questions after you do your general comments. Mr. Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think this is an important piece of legislation. I’m glad to see it finally coming through. I thank the Minister and the department for doing the work to bring it forward, including the research that was identified and quoted from by my colleague Mr. Bromley. Every one of us I think has seen or almost been involved in an incident resulting from somebody who is driving while distracted. The incidents that I’ve witnessed have almost always been when somebody’s texting, which is a significant distraction, in my mind, and/or dialling a phone. I’ve seen a number of them a lot closer than I’d like to have seen. So I’m happy that this piece of legislation is coming through. I think it’s important. I think it’s a great first step. Eventually we may get to the point that my colleagues are talking about, but for now I think this is a really good first step and I’m happy that the department is taking it. Those are my general comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Next I have Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the Minister and the department for bringing forward these amendments to the Motor Vehicles Act. I feel strongly that road safety is more than a convenience; it’s a right for all. Often at times we forget about the privileges and rights we take advantage of and start to turn privileges into rights and get confused by what they really mean. The fact is we do have a right to want to feel safe and be safe on those roads, and this amendment addresses one of the privileges that people are using at this time and I look forward to the change on the roads. Whereas people are using the cell

phones as a distraction and it does put safety at a compromise for pedestrians and other drivers alike.

This is a real compromise that I think will move forward for public safety. I’m confident the steps taken by Bill 16 will ensure that our roads are that little more safer, which is really where the laws are finally evolving to address modern times and realities. When laws were conceived in the Motor Vehicles Act back in the day, cell phones weren’t an issue at the time. Now they have to be re-addressed in a way that responds to the changing of the times.

I’ve raised this issue of distracted driving, like a number of my colleagues here, on numerous occasions. I suspect every one of us is very pleased to see that the department has heard the concerns. I’m grateful for that and I suspect my colleagues are grateful as well.

The Minister, as I’ve raised questions in the House, has recognized the importance of these particular issues, and I will truly say that, although there was much jousting in question period over the years, to hear him today read his comments to the record really shows that the department and the Minister have heard the concerns raised by many. In my view, personal responsibility is important, but clearly Bill 16 is one of those things that help address an area where the individual responsibility has taken over and forgets about others on the road.

I’ve said, and I continue to say, that this issue is really not just about distracted driving but about public safety. I think this is putting public safety first, which is important. It’s not just my voice or my colleagues’ voices in this House that demonstrate the importance of this particular matter; we’ve heard this echoed by many people. Some of the champions, as we know, are SADD -- in this case they call themselves Students Against Distracted Driving -- the City of Yellowknife has spoken in favour of this, the NWTAC has spoken in favour of this, a number of my constituents have echoed serious concerns about this particular issue. Many provinces have all recognized the importance of addressing this particular issue in one form or another.

Many will say that the downside of having to give up the right -- or I call it privilege -- of being able to use their phone while they’re driving is quite challenging and unfair, but the downside is quite low when you think about it. The downside is that when people have their phone ring and they still feel the urge or necessity to answer it, all they need to do is pull over and answer it. To me the downside really is low when you balance out the impact by taking that call what could happen.

I had spoken to a constituent of mine, Michele Thoms, on many occasions on this particular one. She’s the SADD student advisor over at St. Patrick

High School. She had invited me in to talk to the students a couple of years ago regarding this particular problem, and the youth themselves recognized how important it is to have modern legislation address, attack, and certainly solve problems out there. To them, they couldn’t understand why years ago the government hadn’t responded quicker to address this particular problem.

I’m just going to wrap up by saying I thank the department and the Minister for seeing that this is an important issue to respond to. I’m glad that we’re responding to it in our mandate within this 16

Assembly. It would have been disappointing if it had continued to drag on, but clearly the government recognizes how important this need is for public safety on our roads. Of course, we all know the challenge of regulating and managing good behaviour of everyone is always a difficult one, but this is just one more step to make sure that our roads are safe for others.

As cited already by I think Mr. Abernethy and maybe even Ms. Bisaro, people can provide countless stories until the cows come home about driving experiences where they’ve seen people drive through red lights, not stop at stop signs, near misses of pedestrians, people driving and wandering all over the roads, and all while using their cell phones in one form or another. Does this law answer every particular problem? I suspect it doesn’t, but I’ll certainly say it’s an effort worth noting, and a compliment needs to go to the department and all those involved who took the time to respond and encourage the department to address this issue.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Next I have Mr. Jacobson, Mr. Yakeleya, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Jacobson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Basically I’m happy to see this bill come forward, An Act to Amend the Motor Vehicles Act. I’m in full support of it. The communities in our riding that do have cell service, it’s just good safety for the children in the communities that we represent. I’m in full support of the bill.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department’s initiative is a step closer to another safety awareness for our people who are using our roads, especially ones that are driving. This bill is a good step towards safety.

The one issue that I have is going to have a concern for me -- and I want to ask the Minister if he would elaborate later on -- as to the portable use of handheld electronic devices in our region on the winter roads. We know that we have winter roads that we rely on these handheld devices for our

safety, for knowing if there are big semi-trucks coming in our direction, safety for our people in our vehicles. Also these handheld electronic devices are also used to service oil rigs and oil leases, camps that are going to be starting up in the Sahtu this winter for working, and not all companies have extra money to buy these radios that should be mounted on the dashboards. So these handheld electronic devices would be a big help if we had some clarification on that from the department’s attention. Otherwise you’re going to have a few companies in the Sahtu being charged under this new law here. That’s something I would not support the department on.

The restrictions on the cell phone talked about here, I think, again, as I said, the Minister is in the right place to do this. It’s the right time. But also all cell phone users, you know, in Yellowknife here sometimes, and other areas, people who are on their cell phones sometimes don’t look at when they’re crossing the street or not. They’re so busy on their cell phone they don’t look around and see if a vehicle is coming or not. I think there’s a general awareness campaign not only for people who are driving vehicles but for people in general who use cell phones. Some of them use these headsets and they cross roads, they don’t check. Just like when we had people who were hiking with us on the CANOL Trail, we said there’s no personal electronic device for the headsets, otherwise they won’t hear the animals or they won’t hear us or that. So you’ve got to be safe about it. It’s just good general education awareness about these devices that it could be good, but also it could hurt you. This reminder here is a good one in a general sense. The legislation itself is good. It talks about some specific things.

The other point I wanted to ask the Minister, in his remarks back to us, is that there are lots that have animals in them, cats and dogs, in front seats, on people’s lap. Sometimes you don’t know who’s driving, the person or the dog, because you see the dog in front of the person. I experienced that last week here in Yellowknife. I had to take a look twice because that little dog’s face got in front of that person’s face and I thought that the dog was driving. Well, it’s scary. I want to know, because that kind of legislation is needed or we’ll find it somewhere else in the regulations for distracted driving.

I want to ask the Minister on that one there, because they put people at risk, too, having the animals in the front seat or the back seat. I have a little boy who goes to school here, and every time he gets into the vehicle I know his life is in my hands, and if someone is not responsible for their driving, well, it affects me, it affects my boy. My boy, I love him so much. If anybody has some things with the animals there, think about my boy’s life over a dog’s life or a cat’s life. That’s serious for

me. I know it’s funny sometimes, Mr. Chairman. It is when you think about in, but when you come down to really think about it, we have children on the road, we have children in our vehicles and we have to be reasonable, someone said responsible, and think about it.

For me, I want to say I support this amendment to the Motor Vehicles Act. I would like to get some clarification on some of the issues that I’ve brought up and I want to know that some communities do not have cell phone coverage. Some communities rely on the handheld devices. We don’t have a SADD chapter in the Sahtu but we have a lot of good kids who write a lot of good educational posters and awareness about the dangers of drinking and driving, about seatbelt safety and all those other things. I mean, we’d certainly like to see them up in our region and start a chapter, you know, not just as in Yellowknife.

As a legislator, I’d like to see things happening in other regions such as my own in the Sahtu, and we use the winter roads. We don’t have all-weather roads here. Winter roads are somewhat different from the roads in Yellowknife, Hay River, Inuvik, Simpson, Res. My people depend on the winter road. That’s our lifeblood and not to restrict us in the Sahtu there.

Mr. Chair, that’s all I wanted to say. I am supporting the bill. I need some clarification or there is going to be some more rumbling.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Next I have Mrs. Groenewegen and Mr. Beaulieu. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to speak in favour of the bill. I’ve heard from many constituents on this issue and seen the error of my ways. It is important to people. It is important for safety on our roads. I would like to thank the Minister for bringing this legislation forward and will be supporting it wholeheartedly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Next, I have Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, will be supporting this amendment to the act. I think it’s important for the safety of other drivers and pedestrians on the road that you’re not distracted while you’re operating a motor vehicle, so I would support that. Both talking on the cell and texting on the cell while driving seem to be unsafe things to do. This would restrict that, so I support the bill. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next, Mr. Ramsay.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to lend my comments to my colleagues that have spoken in favour of Bill 16. I am very

supportive of the amendments to the Motor Vehicles Act going forward through Bill 16 that would address texting and cell phone use in vehicles. I think it’s a big issue out there for public safety, and as technology improves, these phones are used for much more than just phoning and texting. You know, you can get on the Internet, those smartphones and things like that, and driving around, I mean, you can see it, and oftentimes I find myself having to pull over on the side of the road and try to finish texting or phoning somebody.

If there are some penalties out there for doing that type of behaviour, I think it’s going to be a good deterrent and something that should be addressed, because we’ve got a lot of children out on the streets walking around and all it takes is a second for an accident to happen. You look down and try to press a key on your phone and the next thing you know there’s a little kid on a bike running out in front of you or a car coming and you’re outside of your lane or something.

I think this is a step in the right direction. Long overdue. The rest of the country’s been moving forward with this. I know we’ve been talking about this for awhile so I’m glad to see it here. I’m fully supportive of it and I wanted to thank the Minister and his staff for the work that they’ve put into these amendments. Also, I know some of my colleagues spoke of SADD and their involvement in this, as well, and I think that’s to be commended as well. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Members. We’ve done general comments. With that, I’ll allow the Minister to respond to the general comments. Minister of Transportation, Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, also, to all the Members that made comments. This issue of distracted driving has certainly come forward as an emerging issue. When it was raised here several years ago there has been a lot of research done in here with distracted driving. We’ve had many organizations -- the NWT Association of Communities, we had the RCMP, people from SADD, the city -- come forward and bring some information that would support the need for new legislation. We also, of course, had many of the MLAs raise the issue and bring examples and also concerns by residents of the North to our attention.

We worked hard to try to find a balance on this piece of legislation. We know some people are not totally satisfied that it didn’t go far enough. There are so many things you can include in a piece of legislation such as distracted driving. You can include drinking coffee. You can also include smoking a cigarette or putting on makeup, animals, children in a vehicle. We always encourage that every driver should minimize distractions. The proposed legislation reflects common current best

practices from legislation from all across Canada and since last year there are probably about seven jurisdictions that have adopted similar legislation. So we’re seeking a balance between enforcing safety and making sure that it is enforceable, and we’re also mindful of the fact that we’ve got to obtain public support.

There has been a question raised about how do we measure effectiveness of this legislation, and right now there is currently information that’s collected by the RCMP, and the information that’s collected on collisions also includes information on driver distractions as a potential cause in the collision. We also summarize these statistics in our annual reports. Transport Canada also currently conducts surveys in each jurisdiction that reports not only on cell phone use but on seatbelts. We also will be conducting roadside surveys like we do with our seatbelt information. We also intend to evaluate the effectiveness of this legislation in probably two to three years when we have enough statistics.

The question that was raised about winter roads, right now this legislation provides the authority for regulations to be developed to exempt certain classes of users from law, and it can also show how the device may be used. So it’s intended to develop regulations to permit the handheld two-way radios on winter roads, but at the same time we still expect people that are out on winter roads that are using handheld devices, to stop and pull over.

With the question on animals in the vehicle, right now we still have legislation, Section 154 of the Motor Vehicles Act, Driving Without Due Care and Attention, as a tool that can be utilized to discourage that. We certainly can relay the concerns from the Member.

We are also supportive of the SADD organization, Students Against Drunk Driving. We know that there are some areas of the Northwest Territories that don’t have a chapter. We certainly support any initiatives. Of course, it needs a champion in that region to pick it up and make it work, but we certainly would support any type of initiatives of that nature. We intend to have this campaign in all of our communities, the larger centres and smaller communities. I think we have a very effective campaign planned that will not only go through this year but also next year so that people are well aware that this is a concern, and our goal is to reduce the number of accidents that are happening and have people pull over or not use any electronic devices while they’re driving. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Mr. Bromley.