This is page numbers 3067 – 3106 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Topics

The House met at 1:31 p.m.

---Prayer

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Good afternoon, colleagues. Today, before we get started, I’d like to pay tribute to my wife’s grandmother, who passed away this past summer. I’m reading her eulogy.

Delia Bourke, nee Cardinal, was born outside Fort Chipewyan in the area known as Ambarass Portage in the winter of 1926. Her parents, Jean-Baptiste and Mary Adelle Cardinal, resided in Ambarass Portage in the spring and winter months while working on their trapline. The remainder of the time was spent living in Fort Chipewyan, where they raised 14 kids while they fished and lived a traditional way of life on the land.

Delia was the second child born out of all of her siblings and left home at a very young age. In 1945 she met her late husband, Victor, and they were married shortly after on September 12th the

following year in Fort Fitzgerald, Alberta. Soon after, they welcomed their eldest son Fred and daughter Doris.

In 1961 the small family moved to Fort Smith where they resided there for their remaining years. While living there, Victor and Delia had a total of 16 children: eight boys – Fred, Albert, Allan, Donald, Lloyd, Raymond, Tommy, Edward and Curtis – and five girls – Doris, Dorothy, Nancy, Rita and Judy.

Victor worked at Northern Transportation Company while Delia stayed at home and raised her children. Having 16 children back in those days was a tough feat as the town was still developing and not able to provide the necessities; hence, the family would resort to hunting and picking berries just as their parents had done in the past.

Delia did not live a fancy, expensive or flashy lifestyle, but she knew what was important to her and that was her family. As her family grew, she remained the very core of the family, a focus of love and affection to everyone she knew.

Delia’s mother, Mary Adelle, always taught her girls to take care of all the family responsibilities and have a traditional woman’s role in the household. You can truly see how that tradition carried on

through Delia’s life, as she always lived her life fulfilling those roles that her mother taught her so well. Delia’s hobbies are also a reflection of her mother’s teaching, as she loved to cook, pick berries and sew. She was very resourceful when it came to their day-to-day lives raising all the children. Delia would sew most, if not all, of her own and her children’s clothes and also made her own animal hides to sew moccasins and mittens. Beading was also one of her favorite pastimes.

Delia’s life seems to have been simple and uncomplicated as a stay-at-home mother, but raising her own 16 children and many grandchildren is what she believed she was destined to do. Delia truly loved children and you could see that love whenever she would meet a new addition to the family. With numerous amounts of grandchildren, great-grandchildren and even great-great-grandchildren, you can see how Delia was surrounded with love each and every day. Even in her sick condition, she always kept a high spirit and greeted everyone she met with a smile.

One story that a family member shared was how New Year’s was always a time of celebration to enjoy with family. I thought I would share this because of the amount of people who have a memory about that time. Passed-down traditions still remain very dear to the entire Bourke family, as family functions surrounded by loved ones are commonplace. From the food to the conversation and laughter, the family all had numerous amounts of stories that would be too much to mention today, but those traditions stem from Delia’s side of the family and friends.

Delia’s family and friends have shared countless stories and memories in helping to write these words. A recurring theme that arises from all the shared stories is perseverance, humility and humour. Living 86 years, with many of those years as a widow and losing loved ones, Delia persevered and lived with humility. Having a sense of humour is quite an understatement to those who knew her. She always made everyone laugh, and loved to talk and tell stories, most of which ended in laughter.

Although we spoke today a lot about her very early past, the recent past is more a reflection of how Delia’s demeanor and character touched the lives of many people that had the chance of meeting her.

She made a big impression on all staff at the care home and even those who hadn’t known much about her shared just how sweet of a lady she was. Delia’s husband passed away in 1991 and throughout all these 22 years that he’s been gone, she still would say that Victor was the love of her life. With her endless stories she told about him and her family, you could see just how much love they had for each other. Now Delia is reunited with her husband and children in the Kingdom of Heaven.

We all have fond memories of Delia and these we must hold dear in our hearts and cherish them, as she cherished us. Just before closing, I wanted to mention a small story that sums up just how Delia lived her life and how her spirit was still high and strong. In the days before Delia had passed, she asked her daughter Doris, “How old am I again?” Doris replied, “You are 86, mom.” Delia then replied, “Really? I don’t feel that old. I still feel like I’m 16.”

I would like to convey my sincere appreciation for their support and generosity to: Honourable Michael Miltenberger, Dennis Bevington for attending the funeral of Delia; and Mr. Ken Hudson, president of the Fort Smith Metis Council; and the Kaeser family and Kaeser’s Store, for all the hard work they do when you pass through that community. They really do a good job. Thank you so much.

Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Minister of Education, Culture and Employment

Mr. Speaker, bullying is a complex social issue and has potentially devastating effects on student achievement, attendance and mental health. Unfortunately, we have all seen the most shattering results of bullying across Canada, and we are focused on ensuring this does not happen in the NWT. Everyone has a role to play in making sure our residents are safe and feel safe in their communities, at home, and at school.

We responded to a motion for anti-bullying legislation by proposing amendments to the Education Act in the spring session. This includes a definition of bullying and cyber-bullying, a Territorial School Code of Conduct and requirements for district education authorities and district education councils to implement safe schools plans. We are very pleased at standing committee’s approach to include the students across the NWT in their public consultations on Bill 12.

Further, we have developed a Territorial Safe Schools Plan, which includes policies and

procedures that we have shared with the education councils and authorities. We are finalizing a workbook that includes guidelines, intervention and procedure reporting.

Mr. Speaker, this is a multi-year investment with many partners, including Aboriginal governments, the Northwest Territories Teachers’ Association, school administrators, other government departments, families, communities and students.

In all of our research, and working with our partners across Canada, we have found that youth must be the voice of bullying prevention awareness. Through blogging, videos, mentoring, poster campaigns, and standing up against these issues, individually and in groups, youth across Canada are emerging as ambassadors. They will be key to the awareness campaign beginning in the next month. It will include multimedia tactics such as radio, web, and videos to target student participation, as well as resources for parents and communities.

A strong, prosperous territory begins with a strong society sustained by a healthy environment. Safe schools are an investment in a future where all of our children grow up to become healthy, educated members of society and can participate in creating safe, sustainable and vibrant communities. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister of Human Resources, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Human Resources

Mr. Speaker, increasing employment opportunities where they are most needed is a key priority of this Assembly. We need to connect our labour force with the available public service jobs across the NWT. As part of our Workforce Planning Strategy, the Department of Human Resources is developing a Regional Recruitment Program. It will incorporate unique approaches to recruitment with on-the-job training so that people across the North have opportunities to be supported in their development as public servants.

The GNWT actively recruits Northerners to fill vacant positions, especially in the regions. At any given time, there are approximately 150 to 200 vacant regional positions available within all departments, boards and agencies in communities. The Regional Recruitment Program will assist to place Northerners into these vacancies. This program is a tool that will help with the decentralization efforts.

Mr. Speaker, up to a maximum of $15,000 per trainee is available to fill vacant regional positions with a candidate who can train on the job to be able to perform 100 percent of the job duties. Funding

support can be used in a variety of ways, including sending the trainee to another community to learn on the job from co-workers, paying for training courses, or other creative approaches that position the candidate for success in the position.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Human Resources will provide support to managers through a new decentralized regional recruitment officer position. This position works with hiring managers, trainees, regional training committees and regional employees of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Together, they will develop specific plans that set out the training and development needed for the individual to ultimately be successful in the position.

Work is underway to implement this program before the end of this calendar year, and trainees are anticipated to start to be on the job early in 2014.

Mr. Speaker, having the staff in place to deliver programs and services to all residents is a key priority. Filling vacant regional positions with Northerners is a great way to develop our labour force and provide opportunities where they are most needed. I am very excited about the potential of this program to help reduce barriers to entering the workforce and support employment and training across the NWT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

Minister's Statement 84-17(4): Bakken Tour
Ministers’ Statements

Kam Lake

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment

Mr. Speaker, responsible oil and gas development has the potential to grow and diversify the Northwest Territories economy, and help create a sustainable, prosperous territory. Nowhere has this reality been more apparent than in the Sahtu region. There is a lot to learn when it comes to ensuring our residents are prepared for rapid development, and any development continues to minimize environmental and social impacts. Today I would like to share the lessons learned during a recent trip to the Bakken oil formation in Saskatchewan and North Dakota.

I recently led a tour of the Bakken oil formation, to learn more about challenges and opportunities of rapid development, drilling operations and community engagement. This group included members of the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure, MLAs, Aboriginal and business leaders from the Sahtu region, National Energy Board staff and GNWT representatives.

I would specifically like to extend my appreciation to Mr. Norman Yakeleya, MLA for Sahtu, as well as Mr. Bob Bromley and Mr. Robert Hawkins, representing the Standing Committee on Economic

Development and Infrastructure, who assisted on the tour to represent the NWT Legislature.

We met with government officials in Saskatchewan, to hear how they regulate tight oil resource developments. We also visited various drilling operations and saw how they create unprecedented job growth and opportunities while protecting the environment.

North Dakota’s unemployment rate is one of the lowest in the United States due to this development. In fact, we were told that the Aboriginal groups who are located at the centre of these developments have a zero percent unemployment rate.

Mr. Speaker, we spoke with members of the Three Affiliated Tribes on the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation in North Dakota, to hear how they are dealing with and benefitting from the booming development, and heard about how the tribes are taking advantage of the opportunities this development presents. We also had an opportunity to discuss their views on best practices and issues of environmental sustainability.

The general consensus was that drilling has been operated safely and sustainably, and has been the key to unlocking significant riches for the tribes. Some of the Native American contractors offered to help people in the NWT prepare for development and production in our area.

The one thing we heard time and time again was how important it is to prepare residents to seize the opportunities from this development.

That is a priority of this government: to ensure development continues in a timely yet environmentally sustainable way, and that local residents and businesses benefit to the fullest extent.

We committed to present the facts to the public about hydraulic fracturing and to hear any concerns. To this end, we have been working with the communities of Norman Wells and Fort Good Hope, to support workshops to ensure residents are informed and can ask any questions they have. Participants from Colville Lake, Fort Good Hope, Norman Wells, Deline and Tulita have attended or will attend upcoming workshops. Each workshop is being delivered by the Indian Resources Council, a neutral third party that was suggested by community leadership.

Mr. Speaker, these are the lessons we have learned: We need to work with industry to ensure we know where they need assistance. We need to continue to push for infrastructure such as roads and additional housing so we are ready for this development boom.

We learned that these areas experienced the same issues with lack of infrastructure as any area that

experiences rapid and significant development, and how they are overcoming these challenges. We learned that drilling can be done responsibly and in an environmentally safe way and that it has been the key to prosperity in these areas. Most importantly, we realized how imperative it is to continue to work with community leadership and residents, to ensure they are fully prepared for the effects of development.

The departments of Environment and Natural Resources and Industry, Tourism and Investment have been working jointly on the development of hydraulic fracturing guidance documents. Work on this initiative continues and these guidance documents will be shared with the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure and we look forward to receiving your input.

Ensuring NWT residents benefit to the greatest degree possible from any development is a major priority of this government. We will continue to benefit from this exploration growth, and our residents will be well-positioned to seize training and job opportunities. We need to get our people working, so they can be free of poverty and make the choices that are right for their families.

By taking the time now to learn more about development and maintain our consistent dialogue between industry, NWT residents, and Aboriginal organizations, we will ensure the petroleum resource sector continues to be part of our diversified economy that provides all communities and regions with opportunities and choices. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I want to make my Member’s statement to commend the Department of Transportation on a program that just keeps growing within their mandate. That’s the Drive Alive! program, Mr. Speaker.

These programs do change communities and society’s views towards public safety. So far, from what I can see, they’ve been very effective. The recent one, called Buckle Up NWT, is one that had a very creative and innovative idea of having a contest to promote seatbelt use. I’m happy to say that Hay River was the community that won that contest and I also congratulate the other communities who also participated in that program.

Certainly I don’t think Hay River would have won this contest without the support of our local volunteer fire department, our local police detachment, our fire chief, Ross Potter, and his volunteer firefighters, who are very, very active in our community in promoting safety at all times and they seized upon the opportunity to be involved in this Buckle Up NWT Program.

As a result, we had the good fortune to have Ms. Leela Gilday and Godson also accompany her and come down to Hay River with department officials and put on a concert at the Hay River Golf Course. It was amazing. I’d like to have them back again. I don’t know if we could afford it, but in this case the Department of Transportation sponsored this and it was amazing to see them in action.

So in closing, I just want to encourage the Department of Transportation to continue with these creative initiatives that they undertake to promote safety. I understand there’s another one that has been announced today by press release, which is to encourage the safe driving of young people. These are seemingly maybe small steps, but every bit helps and it’s good to see this kind of initiative coming from our government and the Department of Transportation. I just want to thank them today. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I’d like to talk about my community of Aklavik and the Willow River road project. We’ve discussed this project numerous times and I feel that I need to remind the Minister that funding needs to be secured in order for this project to take place.

There is a Mountain Road Committee set up consisting of leadership from Aklavik, which also includes a few elders. This committee has been pleading for the Willow River road project to be included in our budget, an allocation of sufficient funds to be committed to this project. At this time I might add that my constituents in Aklavik were very happy for the funding received in last year’s fiscal budget to assist with Willow River road. However, to keep the momentum going, we’d like to have a steady flow of funds going to Aklavik for that road to be all-weather and community accessible.

Would the Minister take a look at our budget and continue with a training program that Aklavik residents can take advantage of? We also have local businesses and contractors in Aklavik that are willing to train local residents if funding allows.

The Mountain Road Committee also completed a feasibility study. This study has yet to be implemented, due to lack of funding. I urge this

Assembly, again, to take a serious look at the project that Aklavik has been requesting for so many years. Results of the road would only have positive impacts on the community of Aklavik: access to gravel year-round for the community’s use; family outings such as picnics and scenic drives; multi-use for the school in terms of educational purposes; and lastly, to attract tourists to Aklavik and also big game outfitting. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. There has been discussion lately about the educational renewal in the Northwest Territories. In theory, the renewal is supposed to strengthen student success and enhance the quality of education in small community schools. It’s also supposed to improve the way we measure student achievement.

I’m pleased the Department of Education recognizes the need for a renewal. However, along with many of my constituents, I’m not confident they’re headed in the right direction.

The thing is, parents in my constituency are terribly concerned about the poor quality of education in our small community schools. They’re afraid of the future of their children. Why is that? A big reason is that their children aren’t learning the right material. As a result, they just aren’t passing the Alberta achievement tests.

Let me tell a couple of stories to illustrate the point. Two Grade 11 students in my riding are at the top of their class. They’re bright kids. They’re really into physics. But they both scored around 30 percent on the departmental exams. Two Grade 3 students were at the top of their math class, but in Grade 4 when they took the Alberta achievement test, they scored in the bottom 25th percentile, which is a

virtual fail.

These students are not being taught what they’re expected to learn. They aren’t learning the NWT curriculum in a way that prepares them for standardized tests. It’s a sorry situation when our best and brightest can’t even pass departmental exams.

What is even worse is the department’s response to the dismal results on the Alberta achievement tests. You might expect to see them redouble their efforts in order to fix this problem. Instead, they want to eliminate the test altogether. That’s not a viable option. It only sweeps the problem under the rug, leaving us without a standardized measurement of student achievement.

Education renewal is being advertised as an open process guided by input from the public. For the record, my constituents want quality higher education, not another way of justifying poor results.

I will have questions for the Minister of Education at the appropriate time. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We came, we saw, we can frack. With the recent tour down to North Dakota and eastern Saskatchewan, I want to thank the Minister for taking us, the leaders, members of the committee, on the exploration of hydraulic fracking in that region.

Hydraulic fracking in the Sahtu promises to secure our energy future if we do it right and responsibly. We are looking at hydraulic fracking as our path to greatness, and anything to do with greatness is a risk. For example, people put men on the moon, and that’s a great risk.

I want to say that our land is rich. For example, just look at the recent approval of another giant mine in the Yellowknife area, and we’re hearing about producing our potential on the hydro development by examining transmission lines to the South.

The Sahtu Dene Council clearly stated their support for economic development opportunities within the Sahtu region. This opportunity will create employment for its members. The GNWT statistics profile reported in 2010-2011 that the majority of the Sahtu members were on income support. Tulita, population of 552, had 286 clients. Fort Good Hope, population 585, income support clients 254. As you can see, the results from these stats, a lot of my people, the majority of my people were on income support for that year. That tells us that our people are dependent on this government and income support, and that is their main source of income.

The Sahtu chiefs are in favour of development; however, they want to be sure that their concerns about ecological integrity of our lands, waters and animals are protected.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Our land is powerful and has many promises. What we do as keepers of the land will determine the quality of the life we live.

I call upon this government and our people to take the time to learn about hydraulic fracking and about the balance that we need to consider, and also about having the EDI committee play a role in the

upcoming guidelines and public education involving hydraulic fracking in the North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to speak on something that has always been near and dear to my heart and that is the mental health and addictions. I know we have been almost beating this to death, I guess you could say, and we do that for a reason, because we want to protect the people of the NWT.

It was great to have the Minister of Justice table in the House yesterday the 2012 coroner’s report. It just so happened that it happened at the same time I decided to do my Member’s statement. However, what I did last night and this morning was I reviewed that report. I just want to share some stats with Members and people of the Northwest Territories today.

In 2012 there was a total of 99 deaths in the NWT, 19 which were accidental, eight were suicide, five homicides, five that were classified as undetermined or unclassified at all, and 62 were natural deaths.

I would like to speak to the suicide portion of that. Unfortunately, of the eight suicides, five had confirmed the presence of alcohol. I look at these stats in 2011 and 2010 as well. In both years, of the seven suicides in each year, four of them also confirmed presence of alcohol. Suicide is very big to me because in 2012 six of these eight suicides happened in the Inuvik region. That needs to be addressed.

Before I go on, I will talk a little bit about the accidental deaths, which were also very alarming. Of the 19 accidental deaths, 12 were alcohol or drug related. All the cold exposure of motor vehicle accidents and any blunt head trauma incidents all involved alcohol.

This goes to show that all the work that we’ve been doing over the past two years that we’ve been in session here, plus all the work and all the questions Members have on this side of the House do need to be addressed and do need to be answered too. We do need to revise the Mental Health Act. In fact, the last time the Mental Health Act had any significant amendments was actually assented in 1985 and there hasn’t been any significant amendments since then. We do need detox beds or detox centres and not beds, and more seriously, we do need treatment centres to combat these issues. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I continue with lessons learned from our fracking tour and applying those lessons to the North. Too much of anything can be a bad thing. Fracking is about too much of many things, too much of so much that I made a list:

• too many trucks on too many roads;

• too many wells flaring too much gas;

• too much fresh water going down a well and too

much dirty water coming back up;

• too many pipelines, oil pipelines, gas pipelines,

freshwater pipelines and produced water pipelines,

• too many workers coming in from faraway

places; and driving it all,

• too much money.

This is what scientists call cumulative effects. One well, fracked under perfect conditions, can appear to be a manageable risk, so when big money is involved, things can get out of control, and that is what we saw in North Dakota and rolling across the globe today.

We learned that a loaded truck of gravel kicks up 100 pounds of dust per mile. Massive North Dakota traffic creates 10-inch-deep ruts in paved highways. Imagine what they will do to our winter roads, and we thought last year was a bad winter.

We learned that oil wells produce gas that must be flared if there are no gas pipelines. In North Dakota they flare so much gas, you can see from outer space a frack field lit up like New York City. Again, imagine what the Sahtu will look like here.

We learned that each pad with four wells requires 600 truckloads of water, 2,500 tons of sand and 1,200 barrels of chemicals. We learned that you need a multi-well pad every four miles in every direction.

We learned that each well goes deep into the Earth through layers of water and oil that should not be connected. When sealed, their integrity is meant to last forever. Go figure.

In Saskatchewan, abandoned wells are considered one of that government’s biggest liabilities. We learned that what is sent down the well is bad, but what goes back, so-called produced water, is much dirtier. We may feel like we have unlimited fresh water, but only 6 percent of our water is refreshed through rain and snow each year.

We learned that fracking does not just fracture the earth deep underground. Fracking development also fractures the landscape with a network of roads, well pads and pipelines. We know that this

completely changes the way our northern land and animals function. And we learned that once you start, you have a hard time stopping.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

We learned that once you start, you have a hard time stopping. Workers and companies come from all over, and local people get priced out of their own communities.

We do need development, but it must be sustainable. Tomorrow I will explore what is the sustainability question here, and suggest an alternative economic development that benefits local economies and every single resident.

I will have questions today for the Minister of Environment. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. October 18th to the 26th is designated Teen Driver Safety

Week across Canada, and it’s a great time to raise awareness and talk about the reticence that teen drivers might have and hopefully they can improve their skills and awareness and hopefully prevent injury. More importantly, this awareness talks about some of the extra risk-taking behaviour of some of our teens, and hopefully deal with some of the lack of experience they may have as drivers.

For the record, our Graduated Drivers Licence Program in the NWT, administered by the Department of Transportation, is a great program and I believe a lot of these are encompassed within that program. But we should never go too far. We should always look outside the box and look for opportunities for our young people to not only become better drivers but to actually get drivers’ licences themselves.

So keeping this theme in mind, in recent travels to the Sahtu I was able to speak to a number of business community leaders and business leaders, and talked about some of the opportunities our teens, our young people, are having to achieve. One of the comments that came up time and time again is that our teens do not have drivers’ licences. Once they graduate, it’s very difficult for them to find work, because a lot of them show up for jobs without a driver’s licence and they’re turned away. So we started talking about some solutions here, amongst some of these business leaders as well as community leaders, and I talked to some of my colleagues all over the Mackenzie Delta and all the way down to the South Slave. One opportunity

showed itself here, and that opportunity would obviously involve the Department of ECE and the Department of Transportation. That is talking about the sponsored driver education training and licensing that we can put in the schools.

These young people are our future and we keep talking about economic opportunities that await them and we talk about all the mineral development infrastructure and everything that we’re doing, but these jobs require, a lot of times, prerequisites such as a driver’s licence. I know many of you out there are thinking well, geez, Daryl, what about the liabilities, the costs, administration. I agree; these are things we need to iron out. But we need to invest in our future; we need to invest in our youth. We have to give them purpose and we have to provide these ladders of opportunity.

Need I remind our Members here, their 17th Assembly Caucus priority is Believing in People and Building on the Strength of Northerners. Teen driver training education and licensing in schools is a very simple step that will have huge benefits. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to carry on from my statement yesterday and address another provision that I feel is lacking in the Residential Tenancies Act. Sections 30(1)(b), 37, 38 and 40 of the act reference the landlord’s responsibility for tenant safety. I agree with my constituents, who believe that the act does not go far enough towards ensuring tenant protection.

Landlords should have to make sure their buildings are safe and secure from crime. This will mean patrolling their parking lots, laundry rooms and hallways on a regular basis. This means educating their tenants about security threats and taking them to task if they allow unsafe practices in their buildings, things such as not escorting guests out of the building or allowing strangers entry into the building. Yellowknife, unfortunately, has a number of examples of lack of safety in this area on which we can draw.

Even if the rental property is a stand-alone dwelling with one tenant, landlords must be held accountable to provide adequate outdoor lighting, motion sensor lighting and working alarm systems. The RCMP should be enlisted to perform security audits and the reports should be shared with tenants. Landlords, in my view, should be held to a higher standard than individual homeowners in regard to safety and security. The act requires a landlord to make premises reasonably secure. I

believe this determinant is in the act, but it does not specify how to do that.

Yellowknife has a number of multi-use buildings, particularly in our downtown, and the city is moving towards developing more. We have buildings with commercial space and residential space beside or above that commercial space. Occupied space of commercial spaces do not generally represent a problem, but if the commercial part of the multi-use space is unoccupied, the landlord must do a lot more so that the space and the whole building is adequately secured at all times in order to ensure the safety and the protection of the tenant or tenants. This is a difficult issue to correct.

The Residential Tenancies Act already has clauses which reference landlord responsibility. How much more should be required? Of that I’m not sure, but I do believe some sections or some regulations should be made stronger. So I ask the Minister of Justice to consider this problem, this concern, as he and the department consider amendments to the Residential Tenancies Act. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’ve all been hearing loud and clear about the problems in the city over this past summer. These are problems, destructive problems of violent behaviour that has been reaching and affecting all people from across the city from tip to tip.

When in a civil society did we call this normal? When do we consider this acceptable? I assert to you it is not normal, but the calls of action I think have been over shone by the calls of status quo.

Politicians have been called to lead, but in my view, they seem to rather be led. Politicians are expected to act, but all I hear from our politicians across the way is you’re asking what would others do.

It’s time this government wakes from its deep slumber. There is more going on in this city and there is more going on in this territory with the hopes and dreams of the sugar plums of devolution dancing in their heads.

There are real problems in this territory that are being ignored by the hopes of devolution. A year ago I asked the Health Minister, and he agreed to the idea, about creating a collaborative plan, working with the RCMP and Health. It was an idea I brought to the table. It was an idea about getting social workers to join in partnership with the RCMP on our most active nights down on the streets. It would create a positive relationship, a great contact, sometimes when people need friends most. It would help people to provide guidance of

those who are in trouble and in need of a little help. It gave them the opportunity sometimes to find a friend who had no friends.

As I’m sure is no surprise to this Health Minister and to many people in this room, many of those folks who are in the throes of addictions have nowhere to go. Many people on those destructive tailspins end up making choices that change their lives, but seriously affect the lives of many others. So the unacceptable behaviour continues and the slumber goes on.

I read even this morning in the paper, as recently we see that destructive behaviour once again rearing its ugly head as it preyed upon an innocent family at three in the morning and threatened their safety. The people want more foot patrols by the RCMP and you can see they’re responding, but the RCMP cannot do this alone. They need a collaborative partnership with Health.

So, once again, I call upon this sleepy Cabinet and, more specifically, the tired and restless Minister who is doing nothing on this problem to get social workers on our streets and help our people and take back our city. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On October 15th Professor James Anaya with the UN Special

Rapporteur on the rights of indigenous peoples concluded a nine-day visit to Canada. As a Special Rapporteur, Professor Anaya has a mandate from the UN to monitor the human rights condition of Aboriginal peoples worldwide, to address situations in which their rights are being violated, to promote practical solutions to human rights abuses by governments.

In his closing statement, Mr. Anaya said, “From all I have learned, I can only conclude that Canada faces a crisis when it comes to the situation of indigenous people of this country. The well-being gap between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal people in Canada has not narrowed over the past several years, treaty and Aboriginal claims remain persistently unresolved, and overall there appear to be high levels of distrust among Aboriginal peoples toward government at both the federal and provincial levels.”

This is a damning indictment of the government’s treatment of Aboriginal peoples in Canada. When is the Government of Canada going to listen? When are they going to do right by Aboriginal peoples, to recognize not only their fiduciary obligation to deliver programs and services but their moral

obligation to improve the lives and living conditions of Aboriginal peoples in Canada?

While I’m glad to see rapporteur Anaya shine a light on the truth on the appalling conditions faced by Aboriginal peoples in Canada, it is unfortunate that he did not come to the North. The last visit of a rapporteur to the NWT took place 13 years ago. What has changed since then?

In 1999 elders figured prominently in addressing the UN Rapporteur Martinez regarding the testimony of treaty-making and promises. Today most of those elders have passed on and those promises are unfulfilled. Elders like Ted Landry of Fort Providence, who is regarded as a Dene political historian, are incredulous about the lack of integrity displayed for the Government of Canada in honouring the treaties it has made. Since the Royal Proclamation of 1763, which marks the first big recognition of Aboriginal rights for the Crown, Aboriginal peoples have struggled to see those rights realized. Here we are 250 years later and we still have unsettled claims in the NWT. Self-government negotiations are underway.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Here we are 250 years later and still we have unsettled claims in the NWT. Self-government negotiations are underway in almost every part of the NWT but only one Aboriginal group, the Tlicho Government, has achieved the goal of governing its own people. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have made my Member’s statement on the hydraulic fracking that potentially is going to happen this year in the Sahtu. The company of ConocoPhillips is going to do two exploration wells. With the recent trip to the Bakken formation and seeing the activity down in North Dakota and southeastern Saskatchewan, it certainly was overwhelming. There you can see the different jurisdictions, the different rules that apply in that area, and so it is like the Wild West, really. Up in the Sahtu we have some provisions and some regulations in place, plus we have some time to do it right and do it responsibly.

I am going to ask the Minister of ITI for getting it right and doing it right and doing it responsibly what are types of things we need to look at between now and when Conoco starts their experimental, exploratory hydraulic fracking this winter, so we know that we’re in control, we’re in the driver’s seat on hydraulic fracking in the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My belief is we are on the right track when it comes to getting ready and preparing ourselves. Part of that getting ready has been the fact-finding tour to southeastern Saskatchewan and to North Dakota. Also, last year we had another fact-finding mission to Calgary. I think more of the education component has to be front and centre, especially for community leaders, people in the communities in the Sahtu who are going to be most impacted by development. We also need to continue to work with community governments, leaders in the area. We have to continue to work with industry.

In speaking to industry, the Northwest Territories today has the toughest regulations when it comes to oil and gas, and the development of oil and gas, the exploratory drilling of wells. It’s the most costly and most regulated part of North America, from what I understand. We need to ensure that we continue the dialogue and continue to move forward with the sustainable development of our territory. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, with the technology of hydraulic fracking and understanding that there is a risk to the hydraulic fracking, we saw that in the Bakkens and we’re certainly going to see it in the Northwest Territories.

I want to ask the Minister what types of mechanisms are in place right now to limit, to address some of the risks that potentially could happen. It is no different than the people in NASA when they started out to put a man on the moon. There were risks associated with it. It is no different than what we are doing in the Northwest Territories with hydraulic fracking. How are we going to address these risks that this new technology would bring us prosperity or it could bring us devastation?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, we have to just continue with developing industry best practices when it comes to developing the resources that we have here in the Northwest Territories. I think that will bode well for us.

There has been a lot of research done on the integrity of wells that have been drilled and fracked. Again, I think it all comes down to putting the facts on the table. I know the United States government has done a great deal of work in that regard in trying to identify any contamination of groundwater

from the drilling and fracturing of wells. I don’t believe in a million wells that were looked at that they found one instance of groundwater contamination.

I think the facts really do have to get out there. We will try to get the facts on the table so that the people of the Sahtu, the people of the Northwest Territories can make these decisions as we move forward. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Certainly when we were in the east part of the east corner of Saskatchewan, we were actually at a frack site. We were actually in the operation and actually we were fracking. There was no earth shattering water spewing out of the hole. It is actually quite safe. I would like to point to the Minister in terms of having the information out there. Clearly, the facts need to be looked at.

I want to ask the Minister in regards to the employment for our people. In 2010-11 $976,000 was paid to income support clients in the Sahtu. We want to reduce that. How is the Minister going to address the needs in our communities in regards to the employment and the exploration activities in the Sahtu so that we can reduce the income support payments to our members in the Sahtu?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, through education and training programs, and opportunities through industry, through government and working in partnership with land corps in the Sahtu, I think that’s how we are going to realize people taking control of their lives and getting opportunities to get jobs and provide for their families. I mentioned it in my Minister’s statement earlier today. We need to do something about the fact that people are on income assistance, and this opportunity that we have in front of us in the Sahtu is a great opportunity, something that if we go about it the right way and we plan for it, I think that the Member and Members of this House will be really impressed with how we can turn this into a real positive story and get people to work in the Sahtu, not only people from the Sahtu but also people from other regions of this territory. They will have work available to them in our territory. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regards to equality in the Northwest Territories, we see and I’ve read in the newspaper – the Yellowknifer – this morning, that the federal government approved another mine for the Yellowknife area, another diamond mine. So all its benefits, once this mine is approved, this region will see it.

I’m asking the Minister why we don’t have the same type of benefits in the Sahtu region that we know the hydraulic fracking can bring to us. I ask the Minister, would he then seek the guidance of the

EDI, maybe working with the EDI committee members to go into the communities and go and look at some of the guidelines to move on the hydraulic fracking.

We need the same opportunity as down here in the Yellowknife area up in the Sahtu. You don’t see our Members talking about the diamond mines in this area.

I ask the Minister, would he look at working with the EDI committee on how to involve people through the education process, in supporting the issue of hydraulic fracking.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, fundamental to all this is a diversified economy here in the Northwest Territories. It’s great news that the federal government has approved Gahcho Kue, and that will be very beneficial for the territory and the North Slave region.

There are opportunities elsewhere in this territory. The government has done a lot of work in advancing the Economic Opportunities Strategy where we’re going to talk about how we’re going to diversify the economy with agriculture, forestry, fishing and also tourism. This is an opportunity that’s before us, it’s something we can plan for, it’s something we can work toward, and it’s a very exciting opportunity.

It’s been a good last week here. We also have talk by Imperial about revamping the Mackenzie Gas Project. The prospect of that would have a profound impact on this territory, and certainly the development happening in the Sahtu, the exploration and development, because they’re after the oil that’s in the ground in the Sahtu, but a big by-product of the extraction of that oil is gas. So I think if this gets some legs, the talk again about the Mackenzie Gas Project, it could be very, very big news for this territory. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Earlier in my Member’s statement I spoke about the Alberta achievement tests and some of the failings in our teaching in our small schools, in achievements, and concern of parents. When the Minister talks about education renewal, what exactly is he renewing and is he aware that what’s being taught is not what’s expected to be learned with that type of approach? Concerned parents have come to me time and time again. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister of Education, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Part of the education renewal is to look further into our educational system, how we can improve the programming and the courses that are being delivered, especially in the small, isolated communities. It has been brought to our attention in this House and by Assembly Members, as well, that we need to improve our education system. That’s where we’re at.

We have reached out and gauged the general public, the parents and educators, to hear their views about where we should improve. Some of the highlights that they’ve come across are: system accountability; professional capacity, with respect to teachers and also the support staff; assessment practices in the small community schools, which has been a priority topic within the small community schools; and also the Early Childhood Development Framework that’s before us in this House, and now we’re going to be developing action plans towards that inter-departmentally between Health and Social Services and my department. There is also an inter-departmental approach with respect to all the different departments that need to work together. These are some of the areas of focus within the Education Renewal Initiative that we are moving forward on. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

The Minister said something interesting about getting out to the communities and that’s what I’ve also heard is that parents want to be engaged. So I look forward to the rollout of that plan, but more specifically to my issue, what alternatives are Education, Culture and Employment considering to the Alberta achievement test and why is the department thinking about changing the way it measures student performance? Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi. We are closely monitoring Alberta education changes. There are changes that are coming and we’re monitoring very closely. The Alberta achievement test, it’s also changing in their jurisdiction. So how it’s going to look, we’re not sure at this point, but we are working closely with them and there are various assessment tools that we use within the schools within the Northwest Territories as well. Assessing students will continue to be a priority of this government, this department. The education system will not change as a result of the Education Renewal and Innovation Initiative that’s before us.

So assessment is part of the whole Education Renewal Initiative and again, Alberta is changing their overall educational system. They’re changing their Education Act and we are following their curriculum, as well, the Grade 12 examination and so forth. So if there are any changes that are coming then we need to be prepared for it.

So within our Education Renewal Initiative within the Northwest Territories, we are making changes

that will benefit the students, benefit the communities of the Northwest Territories. Mahsi.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

In my research from the past six years, our students have not improved when they’re taking the Alberta achievement test. So do we actually understand why our students are failing the Alberta achievement test and can the Minister explain this phenomenon? What factors are involved here and why are we consistently failing these Alberta achievement tests in our grades? Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi. We’ve also done our research, as well, throughout Canada, national and also international research. We also sought out some information and ideas from positions from the northern people and provided direction for the changes that we need.

The Education Renewal Initiative is based on the fact that we need to change our educational system and share in the feedback of the general public, the parents, the grandparents, our educators, who feel that we need to change our educational system. We’ve heard over and over from Regular Members on can we improve in those areas so our Grade 12 students can go directly to post-secondary. We are working on that with the Education Renewal Initiative.

The Early Childhood Development Framework is another area where we’re focusing on the early ages so they can be prepared when they graduate from Grade 12 and go directly to post-secondary, university.

The Education Renewal Initiative will also address these issues through the development of a comprehensive K to 12 Literacy Strategy that’s based on the input of the general public as well. So these are just some of the key initiatives we are pursuing as a department and we’ll continue to push that further. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’m glad the department wants to see improvements. My constituents and my parents want to see improvements, too, but dropping the Alberta achievement test, I’m just not convinced that’s the right thing to do right now. You’ve got to have some other baseline to measure student performance if we are going to improve it.

So will there be an overlapping time period and how will we ensure that we’ve got quality baseline that we can measure improvements in our students in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

As I indicated, Alberta is changing their Education Act as well. The Alberta achievement test may be in a different format, some sort of an assessment that we need

to follow as a guideline. We’ve done that for the past how many years now and with this whole Education Renewal Initiative and the Early Childhood Development Framework, that will definitely improve our education system throughout the Northwest Territories, K to 12, even at that early age. At that point in time, those individuals that are doing their 3, 6 and 9 assessment tests, we’re hoping that it will improve over the years.

So those are our goals and objectives and we are reaching out to the general public to seek their input and we’ve sought that and we’ve got that already. So we are moving forward on this on the right path. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Following up on my Member’s statement earlier, I’d like to ask the Minister of Transportation what training opportunities are available for residents of Aklavik in connection with the Willow River access road and other roadwork going on in the region? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In respect to training opportunities for communities in the Mackenzie Delta, I would expect there would be training opportunities as a result of the Inuvik-Tuk highway.

In regard to the Willow River access road, we still haven’t got the funds earmarked for the Willow River access road. So without any funding for the construction of that road or advancing that road project, there would be no training opportunities. Thank you.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Is the Minister willing to work with the leadership in Aklavik on next steps in the implementation of their feasibility and planning studies? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Yes, I would like to, at the earliest opportunity, get a chance to meet with community leaders in regard to the Willow River access road in Aklavik, and going forward we do have to find a way to get some further funding into Willow River access road program. The community can avail itself of accessing the Community Access Road Program that they have in the past. So that opportunity is still available to the community. We’re also hoping with the new Building Canada Plan that communities across the Northwest Territories will have opportunities for additional funding programs to look at programs like the Willow River access road, also communities have access to gas tax

funding as well that they could earmark for projects like the access to the Willow River. Thank you.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

I’d just like to ask the Minister, will he accept my invitation to visit my riding? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Yes, at the earliest opportunity in the schedule, we can work out the schedule, but as soon as my schedule permits, I’d be more than happy to visit the communities in the Mackenzie Delta. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are addressed to the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources. I would like to ask the Minister some questions as a bit of a follow-up to the motion that this House passed the other day with regard to the Giant Mine Remediation Project. I think the Minister is well aware that Members on this side of the House, particularly Yellowknife Members, are very interested in the recommendations from that report and are very interested in knowing what the GNWT is going to say about that report.

So my first question to the Minister is to know from him how Regular Members, particularly Yellowknife Members, can have input into the GNWT response into the Giant Mine Environmental Assessment Report. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the federal process that we’re engaged in as one of the responsible Ministers, there is no real opportunity for input into a separate government, into our position as we work at the table with the other responsible Ministers from AANDC, NRCan and Environment Canada. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. That’s unfortunately what I was expecting. I appreciate this is a federal response, but I also know that we as a government are sitting at a table and we are presenting a position. I think it is a responsibility of this government to allow Members to have some input into that position.

So I would like to know from the Minister, my question is whether or not I, as a Yellowknife Member, other Yellowknife Members, other Regular Members who want to, why can we not, or can we not have an opportunity to sit down with yourself, as Minister, or with other Members or staff of the government to know what the GNWT position is

and to have some input on to the GNWT position, not the federal position, but what we’re saying at the table with the feds. Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

There are officials from all the responsible Ministers’ departments working collaboratively on a response to the recommendations of the review panel, and that process precludes the ability to sit down with us specifically to lay out what the Members would like to see. If the Member wants to have a discussion with myself and with officials from ENR about the report, we’d be happy to do that, but there is no door or no table where the MLAs can come to the seat, come to the table with all the other officials as we collectively work on the response. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

That is what I’m asking. I’m asking for an opportunity for Members who want to hear from you as Minister and from staff, what we are putting forward in this joint group that is developing a response, a federal response. We get briefings all the time, and what I’m asking is for a briefing on what the GNWT is saying at the table where this federal response is being developed.

Will the Minister commit to a briefing to myself, in particular, but to any other Members who wish to attend to know what we are saying at the table with the feds?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I will make a commitment to sit down and provide a briefing of what is possible, given the constraints that we function under, and it may not be the full detail that the Member is requesting. This is a process that is defined under the federal process and it’s not one where there’s an opportunity for that type of debate, but I will commit to check to see what is possible, given the Member’s request.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thanks to the Minister for the commitment to look into it. I would certainly hope that there would not be anything except perhaps a legal requirement that stands in the way of this kind of consultation. We are a consensus government. We share the responsibility with the federal government and we as Members share the responsibility with our Minister on this particular response. I think it is imperative that the Minister do everything he can to allow Members on this side of the House to have some input into what we’re saying to the feds. I’d like to know from the Minister when I might expect a response on his commitment.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Before we prorogue at the end of next week.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Michael Miltenberger. The Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier, Mr. McLeod. I just wanted to highlight I reference several elders and I just wanted to mention the elders like Leo Norwegian, the late Leo Norwegian, Gabe and Mary Cazon, George Boots, the late Paul Wright. Just a few elders that were at the meeting with Mr. Martinez back in 1999, and a lot of them have passed on. It’s unfortunate that a lot of the promises that were made in the treaties remain unfulfilled.

What recourse do First Nations have at this point to address especially the unsettled land claim areas? Now, we take the view that those regions that don’t have settled land claims are basically called historical treaties and First Nations are encouraged to negotiate at the table. Sometimes there are conflicts and what recourse do First Nations have? My question is to the Premier. What recourse do First Nations have when governments ignore and do not address their concerns?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The honourable Premier.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

Governments have a historical and special relationship with Aboriginal, specifically treaty, people. Here in the Northwest Territories, we have an opportunity to show the rest of Canada and the world how to improve and do things better in the area of negotiations, settling land claims and working together, having a good relationship with Aboriginal governments, and I think we’re making a lot of progress in that area.

I’ve said many times that in the historical treaty areas that the Member is talking about, the difference is that those Aboriginal governments believe in the oral version of the treaties. They don’t believe in the written version of the treaties. The Constitution of Canada refers to the written versions and modern land claims and self-government, so I think that’s a decision that Aboriginal governments have to make.

We as a government are working. We have the process with the Dehcho First Nation to try to find a way to move forward, and I think we’ve been having some good discussions. We’re hoping to establish a similar arrangement with the Akaitcho at some point and I think that’s been happening. As everybody knows, it started out as a Dene and Metis comprehensive land claim, but because of their differences and development, it split out into a number of regional land claims and even to community land claims and self-government, so for those that feel they want to make progress, they’ve looked at those other options as well.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

I think the NWT prides itself in providing leadership in terms of First Nation issues and leading the way in terms of coming up with key agreements. The unfortunate reality is that if you negotiate and if you don’t agree with governments, governments have the power of withdrawing funding and basically walking away from the table, which leaves the option of First Nations to seek perhaps a remedy through the courts. Other parts of Canada do have systems in place, and I’m encouraged that the Minister has indicated that we want to show the other parts of Canada how to improve the system of working with First Nations.

Would the Premier agree in principle to the idea of having a commission that could be struck up between the First Nations and governments to oversee disputes that go unabated, that are not addressed, and to try to perhaps speed up the unresolved land claims process?

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

I think we have taken the lead in that area once again. Once devolution is implemented, we will have an intergovernmental council; we will be working with all of the Aboriginal governments that sign on to devolution, working together, and I think that in that way that’s the best way to resolve disputes. For those that haven’t signed on yet, we’re still very optimistic that we’ll hopefully see that happen within the next year or so.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Does the GNWT support the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission extending beyond July 1, 2014? If so, how has that support been expressed to the federal government?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Mr. Nadli, I’ll allow the question if the Premier will take it, but it’s two different topics. If you want to redo your question, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Premier update us in terms of how it is that this government is working with the federal government in terms of ensuring that work with truth and reconciliation continues? Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Same question. Mr. Premier.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’ve been a very big supporter of the truth and reconciliation process. We think they have been doing an excellent job. If we are asked and if we are prepared to continue to work with them, we will work with them to include the history of residential school in our curriculum, working with Aboriginal governments, and I think that we would be prepared to work with them if we are asked to do so and try to extend the process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The questions I have today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services in regards to some campaigns. I want to know what is out there for people who are suffering from mental health and addiction disorders that might eventually find where the outcome is suicide.

I’d like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services what partnerships does the government have right now in terms of any kind of helplines that residents of the Northwest Territories can access. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The department has three helplines for an individual. One is specifically kids help line and then two general helplines. Two of them are 1-800 numbers and one is a helpline for the city of Yellowknife. Thank you.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, how about in the communities? I know, looking through the department’s website, I was looking for phone numbers, if somebody needs to contact somebody in the community or an isolated community. That’s where we need to get the services into these small communities that are isolated.

Does the Minister have any campaigns or any future work going into the small communities for implementing either an intervention team or a helpline? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Health and Social Services works with the various health and social services authorities across the North. Specifically, right now we are in touch with the Sahtu, Beaufort-Delta and the Yellowknife Health and Social Services in delivering some programs. One is the applied suicide intervention skill training, which we are running in the various programs in the various communities within those regions. We deliver those and we have some funding targeted to that right now. We are spending about $260,000 in that specific program to deliver those programs to help people identify where potential suicide could be a possibility. Thank you.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Speaker, that kind of goes into one of my other questions in terms of funding. This $260,000 for this specific funding, how many communities are going to be able to access that funding for the training specifically for their needs? Can the Minister let me know how many communities this will be applied to or that will be able to utilize that funding? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, in addition to the applied suicide program workshop which has that budget, our plan is to go into three communities in the Beaufort-Delta, hold a couple of workshops here in the city, Norman Wells and Fort Good Hope. But in addition to that, we are going to be delivering the Mental Health First Aid Program, which also works in conjunction with this. We want to deliver that program with about $125,000 to deliver that program in Inuvik, McPherson, Norman Wells, Tulita, and then throughout the year we will also be delivering three more of those programs here in the city of Yellowknife. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Mental Health Act was first assented in this House in 1985 and there haven’t been any significant amendments to reflect the need that we have in our communities. I know, with the money that the Minister has mentioned, we can’t get into all the communities, so we have to find another way and that is through campaign and awareness.

Can the Minister give me any answers if there are any big suicide-specific campaigns that the department might be coming up with within the next year or in the near future? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, in January of this coming year, 2014, we are planning to have a train the trainer workshop targeted at suicide intervention and mental health first aid to try to train up some individuals that can go into all of the regions and work with people. Then the trainers will then train individuals in the community, trying to identify the potential suicides in the communities and also work on developing some forms of protocol when there are alarm bells going off on potential for individuals that may be contemplating, or ideology of suicide. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are to the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources. I would like to chat about fracking in the Sahtu. This week the Minister of ITI explained that it was the responsibility of ENR to look at the social and environmental impacts of fracking.

I am wondering: How is our ENR Minister working to ensure that fracking projects such as those being promoted by ITI are sustainable? By sustainable, I mean that we are looking at the three pillars of sustainability: economic, social and environmental. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As a government, we are looking at the whole issue of fracking. We are looking at how we manage the balance between environment and resource development in the Sahtu. In this case, the issue of fracking is a major piece of technology that’s being used where there are risks, but we are of the opinion that we can manage those risks. One of the things that we are doing and have been working on for some time at the behest of and encouragement of Members is the guidance document that is going to be on its way to committee this week about this government’s position and guidance to industry and to regulators as what we see as critical key best practices that will provide the assurance that, in fact, we are taking the steps to manage the risks involved with fracking. Thank you.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister. I’m pleased to hear this government understands sustainable development is not something you just say without meaning anything. I think that people in our communities understand that too. I am surprised that the Minister has already made conclusions about what is sustainable here. I didn’t think we were that far along in our studying up on this subject.

Could the Minister explain the role that ENR has played in making sure that the fracking education workshops – I believe that was the ITI Minister’s term – that are being held in the Sahtu this week provide information on the potential environmental and social impacts of fracking? That is how we ensure that there are third party environmental and social experts presenting to the residents so that they can learn about the issue as they would like to. Mahsi.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

That issue has been raised by the Member already. I believe the Minister of ITI indicated we are prepared to make sure we have the type of workshops that are balanced and reflect not only the possibilities in terms of economic development but the risks we have to manage and the challenges that are associated with that and the obligations we have. As the Minister of ITI said repeatedly, we have to work together to balance. So that work is underway. Thank you.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I guess that is recognition that the fracking education workshops are a partial education indeed. As we learned in North Dakota, the cumulative environmental and social impacts of fracking are very much related to how many wells were fracked and the rate at which we permit this development. So under devolution, could the Minister explain how much authority the GNWT will

have to control the scale and pace of that development; that is, who will say this is too much and how will we decide that. Mahsi.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

There’s going to be a number of things that are going to happen after April 1st and the MVRMA will continue having

a role to play. We will be defining our role as it pertains to being the regulator.

In terms of development, we will work with the land and water boards that are there, we will work with industry and all the other processes that are there to look at cumulative impacts. We are going to focus initially as well – and we’ve already indicated this publicly and to committee – that we are at work through the Environmental Research Fund that is partially funded by industry to look at the groundwater mapping, wildlife baseline gathering information so that we collectively have the information, that critical baseline information, to help us make the assessment and determination about cumulative impact.

There’s going to be, clearly, a political component about the pace of development. Member Yakeleya mentioned that as well. We all want to do this the right way. We want to do it in a balanced way and we want to make sure we maintain the balance between the environment and resource development. So we are very cognizant of our responsibilities and our role collectively to be good stewards both in this Legislature and all Northerners, I would suggest. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This type of development, fracking well pads every four miles with up to 40 wells per pad now, roads and pipelines criss-crossing the land has never taken place in an area this far north and with the challenges the Sahtu poses. I know the Minister is aware there’s a world of difference between what we saw, for example, in North Dakota/Saskatchewan where you can put in a road in an afternoon and reclaim it in a couple of days.

Could the Minister explain how ENR will decide how much fracking or development associated with fracking is too much, given that we don’t have these sorts of baselines on which to base this information? Mahsi.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

One of the things that is happening with devolution is we are setting up a lands department, and one of the ideas and plans with the lands department is between the lands department, ITI and ENR we will be able to form a development assessment component or process that will allow us to provide the oversight and proper input in all those areas. Of course, in this case we’re working with exploration. As exploration is done and if it proves out, clearly we

will be moving ahead with that process, with tour discussion with the Sahtu members, the people in the Sahtu, the various environmental assessment process to determine the rate and intensity, the issue of cumulative impact, that we’re not going to be dealing on a project-by-project basis. While there will be a project-by-project approval process, clearly we have a broader obligation to manage the issues that the Member has raised. We’re designing our systems to do that. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Canadians were shocked yesterday when they heard Mike Duffy reveal that it’s the kids in short pants that are pulling the levers in that government, Mr. Speaker. Time and time again I’ve asked the Health Minister about doing things. I’ve asked for support for addictions; he closes the Nats’ejee K’eh Centre. I ask him to put social workers on the street, he quietly behind the scenes ignores it although he publicly, a year and a day, he says he’d be happy to do it and help people on the street.

The question that remains is: Is the Health file too big for him and who’s making the decisions over in the Department of Health, because it clearly isn’t the Health Minister. Who is pulling the levers in the Department of Health and if this file is too big, there’s lots of room over here. Mr. Speaker, will he clear this up for the people of this House?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, the Health file is not too big for me.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

As I said a moment ago, this Minister committed in this House to provide social workers to help in partnership with the RCMP. The RCMP wanted it, the Minister agreed with it, I went upstairs to his office and talked to him and he thought it was a fantastic idea. Little to anyone’s knowledge, the mandarins behind the scenes all made these decisions that nothing would happen and the Minister was fine with this. What happened to that promise he made publicly here? Look at the streets today in this city. What has he done to improve this city and the health of Northerners? I would like to know.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Certainly putting social workers in RCMP cars is not going to prevent the violence in the city. However, we have looked at the idea of having social workers ride along with

RCMP. We’re trying to identify some of the challenges that surround that. One of the main challenges surrounding that issue is we don’t have the staff to do it. Social workers are very busy. They have a social worker on call that the RCMP can call upon in a child and family service issue. If it’s a child protection issue, then a social worker is on call to do that, but to have social workers riding around with the RCMP to prevent violence in the city is not something we can do. It is something we aren’t funded to do and something we don’t have the human resources to do.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

This Minister, a year ago, said this was a good idea. I talked to him in his office and he said it was a great idea. He said he’d appoint someone to solve this problem and work on this problem. A few days ago I heard from this very Minister, oh by the way, there’s a briefing note on my desk we never sent to you that explained over and over why we couldn’t do this. To this day I still have not been informed in any way why we can’t do this other than the fact of the Minister stating, I don’t know why we can’t do this. Who is in charge of this department and if he isn’t, come on over here. We’ll welcome you back in great arms because we’ll put someone over there that can do the job because this Minister doesn’t.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

On October 15th at 9:23

a.m. I sent an e-mail to Mr. Hawkins explaining the problem. So if he hasn’t heard about it to this day, it’s because he hasn’t read his e-mail. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, the Minister knows this is nothing. He could have come a year… It took a year to get any response from him. A couple of days ago, he then all of a sudden broaches the idea of, oh my goodness, I’m surprised… Mr. Speaker, I quote the paper, “Lately it seems things are getting a little rougher around here than they’ve been.” Again, I ask the Minister of Health and Social Services, other than doing nothing, put something on the table that he’s truly done to improve the lives of Northerners, or get out of Cabinet because you don’t belong there.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

Sorry, Mr. Speaker. I don’t know what else to say other than there’s an e-mail here; it’s got four points on it. It explains the situation. It explains that we’re continuing to work with the RCMP. We have a good relationship with the RCMP, and Mr. Hawkins asked me about this in March and today is November…

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

October 22nd …

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Minister of Health and Social Services

I thought there was 12 months in the year, not six. Thank you.

---Interjection

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Hawkins. Member for Yellowknife…

---Interjection

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

No. Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hard to follow that. My questions today are going to be for the Minister of the Department of Transportation. Earlier in my Member’s statement I noted that many community teens did not have drivers’ licences and I brought forward an idea that the Department of Transportation should consider a driver education and licensing program in our Northwest Territories schools.

The late Ed Jeske would be really proud today and I’m sure he’s got a smile on his face because he taught many Northerners how to drive. I think some of his students are actually here today. So his concept was very simple and I’m just asking if we looked at modernizing it for a purpose. Let’s get drivers’ licences in the hands of drivers in all of our communities.

So with that, aside from the Graduated Licensing Program, can the Minister tell us what other programs or initiatives does the DOT subscribe to that helps teen drivers with skill improvement, provide experience and teach safe driving? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Member for the question. It’s good timing; this is National Teen Driver Safety Week. We’ve also launched Project Gearshift, which is aimed at getting the types of behaviours and schools engaged in learning about safe practices when it comes to driving.

The Member asked what else we’re doing, and I know that in the Northwest Territories in the past when I grew up here in Yellowknife that we did at one time have driver education in the high schools here in Yellowknife. That’s no longer the case, but students in the high schools here in Yellowknife and in Hay River, where we have professional driver education training, can still get high school credit toward their diploma through learning how to drive through a professional driving instructor. We also are working toward having an app made and working with, it’s called The Passing Zone Inc., it’s flashcards, an app that’s going to be available in high schools across the Northwest Territories in the coming year. It’s based on the NWT driving manual and I think that’s going to go a long way, as well, to getting students in high schools across the

Northwest Territories more information and the ability to get a driver’s licence. Thank you.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Great, thank you, and I appreciate the Minister’s response. As he mentioned, a new project that we just received here, a new news release from his office, Project Gearshift, we’re looking forward to reading the terms of that and looking forward to that.

Can the Minister of Transportation inform the House what percentage of our teen drivers aged 16 to 20, how many of them have a valid driver’s licence and if there is any regional disparity in that data? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I don’t have the parameters that the Member wants, but I’ll give him the stats in the House, the stats that I do have. Yes, there is regional disparity in that. The number of young drivers, youth that have a Class 7, a probationary Class 5, or a Class 5 licence among youth aged 15 to 24 is the parameter that we have, if you look at Yellowknife, Hay River and Fort Smith, 67 percent of youth 15 to 24 have one of those three types of drivers’ licences. If you get outside of those three centres, that number drops to only 33 percent and it is something, through this work that we’re doing with Project Gearshift and other initiatives, that we’re actively trying to target small communities and get programs and services in there that will enable young people in the small communities to get a driver’s licence. Thank you.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

The Minister’s statistics are just reaffirming what we’ve seen in visual here as we were doing our community visits here. So can the Minister of DOT describe why do community teen drivers, those areas where we don’t have a current Department of Transportation licensing office, where do they get their Class 5 driver’s licence? What is the process? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you. Depending on the location, teen drivers can either drive to a location where testing occurs, or examiners visit communities on a regular basis. In cases where we don’t have examiners in the community, the testing is based on need and the examiners would go into the community based on need. That’s currently how it works in the smaller communities. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course, need was just identified by some of the statistics we heard, only 33 percent of our community teens do have a driver’s licence. So I would be the first to agree that the creation of a DOT drivers’ education and licensing program in schools would open up questions such as liabilities, insurance premiums and overall costs of the program. However, with the GNWT having some of the lowest WSCC rates in the Northwest Territories

and leveraging our access to fleet vehicles and insurance, I believe we are in a perfect position to initiate a pilot program.

So would the Department of Transportation Minister be willing to work with the ECE Minister counterpart and consider a pilot project to establish a DOT driver education and licensing program in our schools? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you. When it comes to the safety of our teens and youth here in the Northwest Territories, we’re always willing to talk with anyone, and I certainly will have the discussion with the Minister of ECE on this. We have to look at the high rates of preventable collisions, injuries and fatalities amongst our young drivers. For now, our focus is going to be on Project Gearshift and opportunities to get professional driver training into other high schools around the Northwest Territories and to young people who need that necessary training to get their driver’s licence. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to ask the Minister of ITI about the process of devolution, the role of the National Energy Board. I know we will have some working relationship to them and I want to know about the oil and gas activity specifically to the hydraulic fracking in the Sahtu, that the National Energy Board will work with us, or actually they’ll be our employees in regard to enforcing the regulations of this drilling program.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. After April 1st of next year, the NEB will still have

regulatory authority in the ISR offshore in regard to pipeline development and pipeline operations in the Northwest Territories. Currently our government is having a discussion and some dialogue on how best to approach the regulatory aspect after April 1st of next year and those discussions will continue. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Certainly. With the transition of the National Energy Board having a new employer in regard to the enforcement of the oil and gas exploration, would the National Energy Board be obligated, then, to follow the guidelines that the Northwest Territories Assembly as a whole would want to enforce in regard to the operations such as the hydraulic fracking method?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you. A lot of this remains undecided today. However, my belief is

that we need to be making decisions here in the Northwest Territories related to the development of our own resources and we’ll see where we get with the discussions.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. As part of devolution and of devolving powers to the Northwest Territories, will some of the discussion look at the possibility of the Northwest Territories having its own type of a National Energy Board regulator, legislation, something that would be built and be worked on by the northern people and enforced by the northern people?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you. Again, a lot of this has yet to be determined, and as we march toward April 1st , this will all come into much greater

clarity.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The whole apparatus of the National Energy Board will be mostly under the Minister, so how can the Assembly itself guess that we can go through that discussion, because the policies and the regulations would flow from the Minister on overseeing this new working relationship with the National Energy Board. The Assembly itself being part of the input to give advice on the regulations and policies to the hydraulic fracking that could possibly happen in the Sahtu.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

We’re going to keep all of our options open, and again, I think this will certainly become much clearer as we get closer to April 1st next year.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The time for oral questions has expired. Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. The Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following three documents, entitled Public Accounts of the Government of the Northwest Territories, Interim Report for the Year Ended March 31, 2013; Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 3, 2013-2014; and Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 3, 2013-2014. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document, entitled 2012-2013 Status of Women Council of the NWT Annual Report. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table the Status of Women’s three questions to NWT candidates on severe shortage of quality and affordable child care which exists throughout the NWT, and the response of all candidates including many in this House today. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Pursuant to Section 266(2) of the Elections and Plebiscites Act, I wish to table the Auxiliary Report

of the Chief Electoral Officer on Issues Arising from the 2011 General Election, October 2013.

Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices for motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills, Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 3, Wildlife Act; Bill 13, An Act to Repeal the Curfew Act; Bill 14, An Act to Repeal the Pawnbrokers and Second-hand Dealers Act; Bill 15, Gunshot and Stab Wound Mandatory Disclosure Act; Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Justices of the Peace Act; Bill 17, An Act to Amend the Protection Against Family Violence Act; Bill 18, Apology Act; Bill 19, Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2013; Bill 21, An Act to Amend the Dental Profession Act; Bill 22, Territorial Emblems and Honours Act; Bill 24, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act; Tabled Document 70-17(4), Electoral Boundaries Commission, Final Report, May 2013; and Tabled Document 107-17(4), NWT Capital Estimates 2014-2015, with Mr. Miltenberger, NWT Housing Corporation, Municipal and Community Affairs, Public Works and Services, Health and Social Services. By the authority given to me as Speaker, by Motion 1-17(4), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider business before the House, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I would like to call Committee of the Whole to order. There are a number of items before us on our agenda. What is the wish of the committee today? Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. We would like to continue consideration of Tabled Document 107-17(4), NWT Capital Estimates 2014-15. We’d like to start with the NWT Housing Corporation and, time permitting, Municipal and Community Affairs, Public Works and Services, and Health and Social Services. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. We’ll commence with that after a brief break.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. The next item we have before us is consideration of the capital budget for the NWT Housing Corporation. Let me repeat myself. I call Committee of the Whole back to order. The first item we have before us this afternoon is the NWT Housing Corporation. It is here as an information item. I would like ask the

Minister of Housing if he would like to make opening remarks.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I have no opening remarks, Madam Chair, but I will bring in witnesses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. I will ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses in.

I would like to ask Minister McLeod if he would please introduce his witnesses for the record.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. To my right I have Mr. David Stewart, president and CEO of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. To my left I have Mr. Jeff Anderson, vice-president of finance and infrastructure, NWT Housing Corporation.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. General comments. Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a few comments I’d like to make. I’m very glad to see the seniors’ complex that’s planned for Aklavik. It’s much needed in the community and it’s good to see that in the budget.

I’d just like to also emphasize that there are a lot of people moving back to the communities of Aklavik, Fort McPherson and Tsiigehtchic over the last couple of years here and a housing shortage has come underway. I strongly believe we’re in need of single unit multiplex units in the communities. I think that would free up a lot of room for my constituents. Also in our plan, as of now there are no plans for new units in the communities of Fort McPherson and Tsiigehtchic, and I just wanted to stress that it is much needed as a lot of people have moved back.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. We look forward to getting the project underway in Aklavik for the seniors. We also have, as the Member knows, earmarked seniors for Fort McPherson.

As far as the public housing portfolio goes, I mean, we’re always looking at our communities with the most need, and when we do our allocation of public housing replacement units we tend to target those that are in most need. Right now, the two communities, I mean, there is a need in every community and we have to weigh that against the other communities, and that will help us determine where some of our replacement units go. But if there is a shortage in the community, I mean, we would be well aware of it and we’ll target some of our initiatives towards those communities.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Next for general comments, I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have one topic I would like to bring up and that’s the energy initiatives. I know the Housing Corporation has been looking into biomass initiatives and they have other energy projects. We will talk about that under detail, but just in terms of the biomass initiatives, I’m aware that the corporation is facing ever-increasing pressures, as every resident and business is in the Northwest Territories, of heating and power, but on the heating front, I’m just wondering if I can get an idea of where we’re at. I think we’re looking into feasibility studies and I was hoping to see some comprehensive multi-dwelling biomass projects. Could I get an update on where we’re at with that generally? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Madam Chair, we have a couple that are underway right now. One is in Detah. It is a stand-alone system that is connected to the seniors five-plex. The other is in Ndilo. That is a stand-alone system connected to a seniors five-plex. We do have some money identified for some more initiatives across the Northwest Territories. I think we are early in the stages, or we are in the feasibility study part of it right now. We do have a couple that are on the go. We look forward to getting more on the ground here within the next couple of years. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Madam Chair, thanks to the Minister for those remarks. It is great to hear about the Ndilo/Detah projects. Those are this fiscal year rather than next. I look forward maybe to getting an update a year after they get operational so we can hear what lessons are being learned and applied. It sounds like there are not any more new ones being proposed for this coming fiscal year, but maybe the following fiscal year. Thank you. That is all I have.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Madam Chair, as far as biomass goes for this coming fiscal year, we don’t have it identified anywhere but we do have… It’s in the notes that we provided. There are some solar panel initiatives that are being undertaken this year that identifies a location. That could take place during 2014-15. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. General comments. Next I have Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. First and foremost, I think it is important to give credit where credit is due. After going through the old Hansards and going through some of the opportunities that this area had, has been definitely noted in the scriptures of the very four walls of this

institution. I have to commend the hard work that has gone in during the life of the 17th Assembly.

Again, I don’t want to earmark any one particular individual. I know it is a team effort here, but there has been an enormous amount of cleaning up and putting back on target what is one of our largest expenses. It is hard to get compliments out of Range Lake office, so take them when you can. This is a good job, Madam Chair.

That said, I think it is also prudent for me to talk about where we are spending our money and opportunities where I see that I have to ask the appropriate questions.

We know that all communities are in need of new infrastructure, large and small. I know full well that we have a certain amount of money. I know that we have money that is sunsetting from the Government of Canada and that we are going to have to be very creative over the next 20 to 30 years in terms of how we distribute these monies and look after the needs of all Northerners. But all Northerners includes the city of Yellowknife. I for one don’t want to take money away from communities. That is not the intent of my question. My intent is always fairness.

Earlier today one of the other Members talked about population moving back into the communities. I can assure you that statistics are showing quite the opposite. There has been a migration from the communities to the urban centres. The last 10 years or so, it has been an 8 percent-plus in-migration. The urban centres, including Yellowknife, are becoming larger. With that, a lot of the community patrons and residents are moving into a more regional base.

Given that statistic, right now in the city of Yellowknife, there are 168 people currently on a waiting list for housing needs. When you look at that number, it’s pretty daunting, it’s a big number, it’s a large number. If you had to put that number up against any other communities, it would probably represent a large number of our communities out there. The interesting thing is that of the 168, and I don’t have the full statistics on it, but I can assure you that a lot of them are from the communities that are now here in Yellowknife.

When I look at some of the breakdown that we have here in the activity summaries as we are going to go through here, I notice that there is a good distribution. I think there is some stewardship behind this, but again, with that number I indicated earlier from Yellowknife, there isn’t very much happening to address that large number. I will start that first part of my general comment in that breath.

The second part of my general comment has more to do with we know that there have been a lot of initiatives that the Housing Corporation has undertaken to reduce or mitigate costs of energy. We know that. We know there are retrofits. We

know there are biomass programs. We are looking at cells, photo PV systems. I encourage the housing authority to come up with more and more of these initiatives.

That said, we have not really heard the statistics yet in terms of what has been some of the bigger savings in a general sense. Has there been an overall 7, 8, 9 percent savings in energy costs overall?

I am just clarifying some of the generalities. If we can get those two things on the opening comments agenda from Range Lake, that would be appreciated. Then again, I want to thank the hardworking crew down there. I want to make sure that it is resonated loud and clear with all members of the Housing Corporation. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Madam Chair, first of all, we appreciate the Member’s comments. I think the good work that is being done at the Housing Corporation is reflected in the budgets that we bring forward and how our funding is spread evenly across the Northwest Territories. Yellowknife, being one of the largest centres, in the last couple of years we have a few major projects here in Yellowknife. In the last seven years, I believe it is, we spent approximately $28 million in the capital. We spent $167 million in the smaller communities and about $66 million in some of the large communities, Inuvik, Hay River, Fort Smith, Fort Simpson, Norman Wells. We make a real effort to allocate our funds fairly and equally.

Part of the problem in the smaller communities is Housing might be their only option to getting a place to stay, whereas some of the larger communities, you are able to get some other types of accommodation. That’s why we introduced the Rent Supplement Program. I think it goes a long way in helping some of the residents in some of the larger communities get a place to stay at a fairly reasonable cost. We try and distribute our funding equally across the Northwest Territories, again, recognizing that Yellowknife is one of the larger centres and there are many more options here.

As we go forward, you talk about the 168 people on the waiting list. If you looked across the Northwest Territories, the waiting list in a lot of our communities are not as large but if you go percentage-wise, based on population, it’s almost equal, if not more. Their options in the small communities are limited. In the next couple of years we are targeting a lot of the smaller communities, but we’re not ever going to overlook some of the large communities and the needs they have there. As we come forward with future budgets, I think you will see that we’ve made an effort to respond to all the needs across the Northwest Territories, be it large or small communities. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Oh, Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I’m sorry. I apologize. I was so concentrating on the first point the Member made, I forgot about the second.

We are monitoring the one unit that we have up in Inuvik. We are able to monitor the use there as far as utilities go. I am committing to providing data to all the Members on some of the savings that we are seeing because of using a few more energy-efficient systems plus the work that we have done on the units themselves.

Right now it is fairly early in the game. We do have a new system where we are able to monitor the utility costs for pretty well every unit in the NWT Housing Corporation portfolio. Once we start doing that, we will be able to identify which of our communities and which of our units have a lot higher energy costs. We have a unit in one of the small communities where we are seeing that their utility bills are quite high. We would use that information to possibly do an energy retrofit on that unit with the hopes of bringing the costs down. So we will be able to monitor all our units closely and, again, I will be more than willing to provide information to the Members as to some of the savings we’re seeing because of all the work that we’re doing. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

I appreciate the Minister’s response to that. I encourage the Housing Corp to look at all the different pilots that are out there. The one in Inuvik that a number of Members here had the opportunity to go visit was quite impressive and one in which will probably set the gold bar standard what we’re going for and trying to achieve. That said, we need to create an environment where we’re doing more than just a pilot. We need to be looking at all our rollouts, looking at all energy efficiencies out there. So I encourage the Housing Corp to come up with more ingenuity. I know there are great ideas out there and I’m really trying to foster an environment that the Members on this side of the House are more than willing to hear those innovations. We want to see those innovations. Don’t be scared to bring those innovations forward. You will probably get a lot of support if you do so. Let’s not rest on our laurels, Madam Chair. Let’s take a look at every opportunity, every unique building type. I’ve heard so many great ideas on this side of the House in terms of model, design and opportunity for employment for construction.

So keep up the good work and thank you, Madam Chair, for allowing me to do general comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I will assure the Member that we won’t rest on our laurels. We’ll continue to explore all new types of technology out there and see how we can incorporate that into the design of our units. Then we will realize quite a

savings because the costs of utilities aren’t going down. I think we see that every year. I think last year we had to come to the Assembly for an additional $1.2 million to help our LHOs with utility costs. We have, through our Modernization and Improvement Program, been able to identify some of the units and do some major energy retrofits on those, and I think in the long run we’ll realize more savings. Once that data becomes available, we’d be more than willing to share it with the Members so we can see the results of some of the initiatives that we’ve undertaken. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next I have Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. A couple of points I want to relay to the Minister. I do appreciate the need and the foresight to look at the seniors needs in Fort Good Hope. The Minister has responded by putting a seniors unit there for the people. I understand from the elders in Fort Good Hope that they appreciate they’re going to get a seniors duplex. They’re looking forward to working with the Housing Corporation.

I do want to say, in the seniors duplex, if there is a possibility of looking at an alternative to the heating facility, I know you have a solar panel in the numbers here, Madam Chair. I am looking at alternatives like biomass or wood pellets.

I was in Norman Wells over the last month and there was an agent in Norman Wells that has the bins, the wood pellets, wood pellet boilers and smaller units for facilities such as this one for residential home units. That’s something I want to ask the Minister about. Not being aware why the Housing Corp is going with the solar system, it may have its valid points, but I just wanted to ask about wood pellet units. That might be useful and more of an advantage for the people and support the local economy in the Sahtu. I wanted to raise that, Madam Chair.

I am also very pleased that the people in Colville Lake, I believe when the Minister was there, spoke about a unit for the seniors or having a seniors place there. I know there’s a discussion going on with the department right now. It was a good surprise when the Minister said they were looking at Colville Lake. That means the Minister is responding to some of the requests from Colville Lake. They are looking at this duplex to help them out. Usually you don’t have any type of rental units in Colville Lake. I want to tell the Minister that the people in Colville Lake are quite happy.

The last point I want to raise, while I have the time, is the issue of affordable housing. It’s critical to us in our smaller communities. I see the Minister has committed to $875,000 in the budget. That might be construction up to five units. In small communities, we need this type of support for critical staff in our small communities. That’s been a big issue of

having qualified staff, either nurses, social workers, educators or one of the land corporations or one of the municipal council governments. They need to have these essential people in our communities. I’m not sure how we are going to do the selection of which communities are going to be chosen. I don’t know what the ratings are going to be, drawing straws or criteria as to which region is going to be looked at as having the most pressing needs. I am going to throw in my pitch for the Sahtu for one of the communities. That would be appreciated. I am reminded of a staff person in Norman Wells that has taken on the job within our government but finds it very difficult to have a house in Norman Wells. I can also say that for all the other communities. I thank the Minister for responding to that new initiative for critical staff members in our communities.

Last, Madam Chair, I also want to make a pitch for the Homelessness Assistance Fund. The Minister has committed some money for this in our communities, the hard to house clientele. This initiative shows there’s going to be some movement in our small, remote, rural communities. This money will go to renovating some houses to support this initiative in our communities. I want to ask, again, that one of the communities that I visited and I was quite shocked to see that a lot of people were living in tents, in makeshift warehouses and some of them in pretty bad shape. For whatever reason, some families were in there with young children without any type of electricity, fuel or sewer. These kids were being sent to school. I don’t want to go into how they got themselves into that situation. It was dire straits for them. So there are some people who are homeless in the small communities. A lot of them are still going house to house. Some of them are being put out into situations where they have to go into a neighbour’s warehouse or in a tent. Those ones are very difficult to work with because they seem to have other issues that they need to deal with and they aren’t dealing with them. So what do we do? They’re homeless and not going anywhere. The alternative is you see them coming to places like Yellowknife, you see them in the city of Yellowknife and they’re not doing too well in Yellowknife either. It’s really a difficult situation for MLAs to say how we help them. How do we really help them? How do we help the communities? We see a lot of them also in Yellowknife and when they go back home, they’re okay. So I guess it must be a never ending issue or problem for us as MLAs from the small communities, and the MLAs from larger centres that have attracted the people from the small communities to live here. So I’m hoping that one of the initiatives for the homelessness initiative would be looked at in the Sahtu and possibly one of the communities. Again, I’m not sure of the criteria;

however, I’m going to make a pitch for the Sahtu to be considered as one of them to look at.

So, overall, I want to thank the Minister. I understand that the money from Ottawa is slowly being turned off and then we’re opening up other internal funding to meet the needs of the people in the North, and the Minister is dealing with it the best he can with the resources they have, and at the same time follow through on our vision for the North and the funding that we get. So I’m fairly pleased with what I see in front of me and I have no major issues with Housing at this point. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member raised a lot of interesting points. Again, we appreciate the support of the Member. The $835,000 he spoke of was an internal allocation to try and address some of the housing issues for professionals in the community. However, we’re looking forward to bringing forward initiatives to this Assembly, with the support of this Assembly, and we’re looking forward to bringing some initiatives forward that would help try and address some of the issues in a lot of the small communities that have challenges with housing for staff. So we’re looking at updating committee soon on this initiative.

The other initiative, while we do have four pilot projects this year, we haven’t determined which communities they’re going into yet to have some of these hard-to-house units in the community. We’ll take an existing unit, do a little bit of work to it, and it will be a place where folks that are homeless can go and lay their heads down. So it will hopefully address some of the issues that they’re facing in some of the smaller communities and see how this works. We’ll go forward from there. We haven’t determined the location of these yet.

We had originally thought in the seniors that were going into Good Hope of going biomass, but one of the challenges we’re facing right now is the fact that the supply is not where it should be right now for some of the other communities. Once supply improves, I think we should see more and more of the biomass. So right now we’re sticking to the solar panels for that particular unit in Good Hope.

As I’ve said a couple of times before, we’re always exploring ways that we can improve our use of fossil fuels in some of our communities, and as pellets become more easily available to a lot of the outlying communities, I think you’ll start seeing the Housing Corporation taking initiative and start going that direction.

So, again, I appreciate the Member’s comments and support, and we look forward to working with committee as we work on the next few initiatives that we have on the go. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. General comments. Next on my list I have Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have a few comments and questions and I’d like to reiterate Mr. Dolynny’s comments about the work that the department has been doing. I should say the corporation. The corporation has been doing a very good job of staying ahead of many of the problems that have existed for quite some time and they’re working very hard at trying to solve them. So it’s nice to see. Of course, I do have some concerns.

Mr. Dolynny mentioned the 168-people-long waiting list. My concern, and I’ve expressed it to the Minister many times before, is with transition housing, particularly in the city of Yellowknife, but elsewhere in the Territories as well. I don’t see anything in the information that we’re presented within the budget here that is going to address transition housing, and I appreciate that we have funding that has come from the Housing Corp for Betty House and that is going to be under construction soon. But it’s a drop in the bucket compared to what we need. We also need transition housing elsewhere across the Territories and it’s not something which I see addressed. So I have to highlight that as a concern for me.

There’s no information here, so I would like to ask the question to the Minister of the number of vacant units that we have right now. I know the department has been working at bringing that number down and it’s been a couple of years, but I would like to know where we’re at. I won’t even guess at what number we were at a while ago, but I’d like to know how many vacant units we have. Of those units, I’d like to know which ones are scheduled for demolition, because there are vacant units that we can put people in, but there are vacant units which are unable to be used. How many do we have to still get rid of completely and get them off the books? How many are vacant and what are we doing to fill them with actual people?

Lastly, a concern specific to my community, specific to Yellowknife, and it probably applies to many other communities, as well, but there is a dire need in Yellowknife for more public housing units, particularly for single individuals, people who are living on their own. The Minister knows how expensive it is to rent here. It’s pretty much impossible for a person who is in a lower wage job as a single person to be able to afford housing, and many, many people in that category simply don’t get access to public housing because they’re last on the list. Families certainly come first and a single individual is basically not a priority with the housing authorities. I have a problem with that and I understand why that is, but I think we have to do something to address that problem.

In terms of other units, I know that the corporation is replacing old units here in Yellowknife and getting new ones, but I understood a while ago we had this cap on the number of housing units we can have. That’s a concern for me. We need to be able to add to our public housing stock. I appreciate it’s an expense, but we can’t simply be getting rid of old units and adding new ones to replace them and keeping the same number of units available at the same number forever.

So I’d appreciate some comments on some of those and that’s all I have, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. As far as the vacant units go, we’ve got 75 public housing units that are vacant and I think we’ve got a number of them that are under repair in addition to the 75. So those are ready to be allocated.

On the affordable housing side, we’ve got 58 units that are ready to be occupied and we have a number that are under repair in addition to the 58. So as you can recall, from a number of years ago, we were up to, like, 135 vacant units. So the number has gone down quite a bit.

I share the Member’s concern. We’re challenged with adding on to our public housing stock because of declining CMHC funding. So that’s why, if you look at our notes we always say replacement of public housing, because as we put a new unit into the system, we’re going to have to take another one out. We have 89 units right now that are ready for disposal. These are surplus units or ones that, with the new standards nowadays, we’ve got to do the hazardous assessment on them and then that adds quite a cost on to them. So we’ve got 89 that are scheduled to be disposed of.

The public housing in Yellowknife, again, we just completed I think it was a 19-unit apartment building here in the capital. We recognize that there’s a need here, too, and the Rent Supplement Program I think was taken advantage of. I think the Territorial Rent Supplement Program, I think the bulk of our clients were from the capital, which, as the Member has said and I totally agree with her, is that the rent here is quite high. So that’s been taken up by some of the larger communities where there is a bit of a challenge. Again, it’s a fine balancing we have to do. I mean, we want to be able to meet the needs of all across the Northwest Territories. The Member mentioned the money we put into the Betty House and I think it was $2.3 million. A little more fortunate here in the capital that they do have a few places they’re able to go. Again, the challenge is in the smaller communities. I think the Member mentioned that too.

It’s a start, but the hard to house pilot program I just spoke about is a start. We have a new homelessness coordinator hired who started in August, very enthusiastic, and part of her duties are to try and gather all the information from across the Northwest Territories on what some of our challenges are, so we’re looking forward to seeing the results of her good work in the near future.

Again, it’s a fine balancing act. We have to make sure we meet the needs of the capital, the larger communities and the smaller communities, and we think over the next couple of years with some of the investments that we’re making, I think we’ll be able to address some of those needs. I mean, it’s an ongoing process and will there ever come a day where we’re able to meet all. I wish we’re around to see it, Ms. Bisaro, but it’s a start, and I think there’s been a huge improvement.

Again, I appreciate the comments of the Member on the work that folks at the NWT Housing Corporation are doing. A lot of that work, I think, would go by the wayside if it wasn’t for the political support that we receive from committee and from this Assembly, so we appreciate that. I think that goes a long way to us advancing some of the initiatives that we have on the go.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next for general comments I have Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Chair. I, too, would like to express and acknowledge the efforts of the Housing Corporation and the staff in terms of a lot of the fundamental challenges that we face up here in the Northwest Territories, particularly more so in the riding that I represent. It has always been a challenge just trying to meet the people in the homeless shelters interests and concerns. I think the Housing Corporation has come a long way and I look forward to at least the continued relationship with the management and the staff, so kudos to the corporation.

At the same time, there are two parts to at least my general comments. I’m interested in terms of the status in terms of the efforts towards trying to be energy efficient, in terms of the projects related to converting the fuel-fired water tanks and where that’s at. I’m curious as to whether we’ve made any progress on that front.

The other things I wanted to concentrate on, or at least highlight, is there are always challenges for the local small communities. There are a few jobs. I know, fortunately, there are a few people that work for government, and those are not devolution jobs, by the way, in the small communities. A lot of them are seasonal jobs, as well, and part-time jobs. Of course, the cost of living is pretty high in small communities and there are some young families that aspire to try to gain independence and create a healthy climate for their children, so they aspire to

own their own homes and get out of public housing. I know there was mention made of efforts to try and create programs that could meet this certain sector of the population that are young, aspiring to own their own homes, and whether there are programs out there that could meet their interests.

In that regard, there are also some fundamental challenges that remain, particularly on the K’atlodeeche Reserve. There are jurisdictional matters. But at the same time, I understand that there are some efforts to try and do some retrofits on the reserve. Just recently we had an effort by this government of opening up a wellness centre and I understand it’s been in the making for a long time. It’s been achieved, and it serves as the model, in terms of an iconic achievement of having multi-level governments cooperate and collaborate and ensuring the interests of the public are met in terms of their needs. So I’m hoping to hear perhaps some positive updates as to what kind of efforts have been made to try and at least sort out those jurisdictional matters on that front.

Also, at the same time, I know there are smaller communities that I represent that aspire to trying to at least manage the housing initiatives in their community, and whether they could aspire to perhaps have their local associations established in those communities. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member’s first point there on the hot water tanks, I think we’ve got about 1,234 units in the thermal communities and about 90 of them are still on electric hot water, so we’re looking at opportunities to convert the rest of those. That’s 7.3 percent of the ones in the thermal communities. In the hydro communities we have 22 percent of our units that are still on electric. For the number of units we have, I think the fact that we have quite a number of them on oil fired and, again, always looking forward for opportunities to improve that.

The Member spoke on the K’atlodeeche Reserve. I mean, we’ve been working with them for a number of years now since I’ve taken over the portfolio. We had a number of vacant units there. I think we still have a number of vacant units there, but there’s an issue, again, of jurisdiction. I think the band had recently passed a band council resolution so that they’re able to give title to some of the land to their beneficiaries, I think, through a lease arrangement or something. They had to go through Canada for that, and I think they’ve got a band council resolution, is my understanding. Once they have that, there is opportunity for us to identify some homeownership clients, because as the Member knows, land tenure is one that’s part of the agreement, and if they’re able to get land tenure then we’re able to see those units be allocated if

there are eligible clients. If not, again, we’ll have to look at the fact that we may have to turn some of these over to public housing like we’ve done with a lot of other units across the Northwest Territories.

As far as local housing authorities go, some of the Member’s communities, I think, don’t have public housing units in the communities. I mean, we’re always willing to sit down with the community. I think the one community in particular, they’ve got three vacant units there. I’ve been to the community and I’ve heard their concerns with those three units. We are looking at turning those into a public housing unit so we can allocate them, because it’s not doing us any good and not doing the community any good to see all those vacant units. Again, I point out the fact we had 135 vacant units a couple years ago, some that were vacant for a number of years. We’ve managed to get that number down, and we’re still working on getting the number down even further.

There is opportunity there to enter into some kind of an agreement with the local government where they might be able to administer, or if they have the capacity they could even do the maintenance on these units because it saves us from having to send somebody into the community to provide maintenance. We’ve got a couple of agreements like that already in place with a couple more remote communities, which works well for them and works well for us.

We’re looking at ways we can work with the community to try and get those three units allocated and off the books.

As far as homeownership goes, ideally we’d like to see as many people in our homeownership programs as possible. We’ve tried every which way to get people into homeownership. We’ve expanded the criteria. We’ve expanded the income threshold so people that are making a little bit more can get into homeownership. What we’re very careful in doing now, and I think we’ve been guilty of this in the past, in our eagerness to try to get everybody into homeownership, we put some into homeownership that actually didn’t belong there and we set them up for failure. Many of them have quit claim to their units and they’ve gone back into public housing. That’s why with the HELP Program, it was supposed to be a bit of a transition from public housing into homeownership. You were given two years to see if you qualified or if you could make it as a homeowner.

Ideally, we’d like to see as many people as we can in homeownership but we have to do our due diligence to make sure that we’re not setting a lot of our people up for failure. We have been guilty of doing that in the past. We want to learn from those mistakes and make sure that we don’t do them again in the future. We’re starting to see that, as this next generation comes along, there is a lot

more work. We would like to see them get into homeownership. We will work with them any way we can. We have expanded the criteria on our programs quite a bit in the last couple of years to try to accommodate as many people as was possible. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Anything further, Mr. Nadli? Next I have Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I am pleased to see a lot of these expenditures in all the communities and most particularly the seniors centre in Fort Liard, much needed and much overdue. I am most particularly interested in the Homelessness Initiative and some of their plans, and certainly Fort Liard has one of the worst core needs in my riding. There is lots of overcrowding. I don’t know what criteria would be used to identify the communities that fit the program guidelines of the Homelessness Initiative. I’d just like to ask the Minister what kind of criteria they will be using for this particular program.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. We’ll be sending a letter out here to all the communities soon. What we would like to do is we would like to work with the community organizations, because we need to have somebody in the communities to oversee the operation of the pilot projects in the community. We will be sending a letter out soon, explaining some of the criteria. As long as we’re able to find a partner in the community, I think that improves their chances.

I know with only four, the need is high across the Northwest Territories with only four. We’ll have to spread those out quite evenly all across the Northwest Territories, possibly one in each region. We’ll see how those work and if we have success with that, then we will look at probably adding more on in the future. Again, I can’t make that guarantee right now. We have to see how these four projects work. We wanted to find a partner in the communities. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much. When I first heard about this Homelessness Initiative program, I was quite excited. I certainly would like to see it as ongoing in future years for sure. I would like to know some of the definitions like small communities, because an initiative or program like this will certainly suit the needs of Fort Simpson. Many, many residents have approached me and said, lots of people come in from the small communities, they’re stuck there for weather. Often sometimes they actually stay in Fort Simpson, and the same thing that Mr. Yakeleya talked about, culture, faith, staying at cousins, et cetera. I’m not too sure the intent of this, but I certainly can see an application in the community of Fort Simpson and

utilizing this for the benefits of the homeless people that live in Fort Simpson. As well, there is a large population of young people that are living with cousins and they are conserving as well.

I would like to ask about their guidelines. Is it specific to small communities? Often, small community programs, they often call Fort Simpson a regional centre, so that’s concerning. That means Fort Simpson, even though it is a small community, doesn’t benefit from some of the small community programs. I would just like to ask the Minister that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We’ll look at all the communities that don’t have an option there right now. If there is a need in Fort Simpson, obviously, in our opinion, they would be an eligible community. Again, the major piece of this is finding a good community partner to work with. But to answer the Member’s question, Fort Simpson would be eligible. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Any further general comments?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Detail, okay. Then I will turn Members’ attention to page 3-12, NWT Housing Corporation, information item, finance and infrastructure services, infrastructure investment summary. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you. I just have a quick question on the general budget here. Each year our CMHC contribution has declined. It is a financial sustainability problem. We have been implementing a new strategic plan through the Housing Corporation with a lot of support from this side of the House for initiatives that have been put forward by the Minister and his staff. I’m just wondering if I can get a quick update on where we are at and how the strategic plan implementation is improving our status in terms of long-term financial sustainability. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I will pass that on to Mr. Stewart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Stewart

Thank you, Madam Chair. I think, overall, the issue around the declining funding is there really are a lot of elements that are going in to trying to manage that. Obviously, our top priority is to work with our federal partner and see if they may reconsider that decision to get out of the social housing business. We work very closely with our provincial and territorial colleagues on that. The Minister is the chair of the P/T forum, the Housing forum, and the Ministers met in June and were developing a number of materials to help engage

with the federal government, to both demonstrate the need but also to talk about that partnership and a way forward on that. We’re looking forward now to a meeting with the federal Minister on that.

That said, we can’t sit around, as the Member knows, and wait and hope that the federal government changes its view. So we’ve implemented a number of things in terms of looking at our own management of the units, and the cost and energy costs are a big portion of that. We’ve looked at other revenue opportunities. We’ve looked at other programming options like the Transitional Rent Supplement, take a little bit of the pressure off, the Public Housing Program and steps like that to alleviate some of that pressure, and then probably very importantly is the investment that the GNWT has made to offset that, with the support of this House, to offset some of those declines that we have seen in these past few years. A lot more work needs to be done, but I think we are taking some steps to try and manage that and make sure that the worst option which might be reducing the stock is one that we don’t have to take. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Stewart. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that response. I wonder if the Minister would commit to giving committee a briefing on that and the contributions from the various measures we have been taking and a real look at… If our hopes are denied by the federal government, what are the realities and what progress are we making on our own at addressing those?

At the same time, I would just like to ask, the last couple of fiscal years, $14 million, almost $15 million each year, a little bit more last year than in this current fiscal year, and this year $31.4 million, a doubling. I’d like a quick explanation of this doubling of the budget for this year and how that’s come about. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will commit to the Member and all Members that we will provide them with a briefing as to some of the steps that we’re taking.

The president said that I am the chair of the P/T Ministers of Housing. We had a quick meeting in the spring and there was a concern from all the Ministers from across the country on the declining CMHC funding. What happened is we are losing. Last year I think we lost close to $1 million. They weren’t feeling it as much down south as we were up here because it’s a big portion of ours, but they’re starting to feel it now, so you’re getting the Ministers from the larger jurisdictions saying, hey, hold on a second here, we need to talk. We’ve

been saying that from day one because we feel the effects a lot quicker. We have a commitment I think through the Premiers conference in Niagara on the Lake that the new federal Minister of Housing has made a commitment to meet with the provincial/territorial Ministers, which is a huge first step, and then we can make our case to them. We had hoped to have that meeting here in the capital this fall, but unfortunately, with the elections and everybody sitting, we weren’t able to pull that together. So we’re going to try to pull that together quite soon.

Again, I will commit to providing Members with a briefing on some of the steps that were taken. If you look at all the little steps we’re taking, even the biomass and the energy efficiency, that’s all geared towards saving us some money that we can put back. Our rent collections are actually improving quite a bit. We have one community that went from 26 percent to 86 percent, which is huge. That goes a long way in helping us to reinvest some of that money.

I will have Mr. Stewart touch on the second part of Member Bromley’s question. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Stewart

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member may recall that there were a number of initiatives that the Housing Corporation committed to do last fall, including the seniors facilities that we were using internal resources for. That’s partly reflected in the 2014-2015 Main Estimates. Those are the resources that we had from our working capital that had built up over time, so we’re going to be investing that money into additional housing. You will see the increased amount in ’14-15 and for the next few years as we actually implement the investments we had discussed last fall. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Stewart. Anything further, Mr. Bromley?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

It just seems that we are more than doubling our budget here and where is that money coming from?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Stewart

Thank you, Madam Chair. Over time, the Housing Corporation has – probably over the last eight to 10 years – accumulated some working capital that we use for dealing with project overruns and those sorts of things. That value in our financial statements has been growing over time and that’s a good thing, but we also didn’t want to sit on a bunch of cash that could be put back into housing. So we are doing that reinvestment now to get that working capital level down to what I would consider more standard kinds of levels, and those

are the investments you are seeing over the next few years that are allowing us to address some of these issues that have been long-outstanding issues. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Members, NWT Housing Corporation, information item, finance and infrastructure services, infrastructure investment summary. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a couple of things I wanted to follow up on. The Minister mentioned we passed up on investing in biomass for some housing we are developing in Fort Good Hope because of the lack of supply. Unfortunately, I heard the same thing from Education, or it might have been Public Works and Services in the same community just a year or two ago for their new school. This is a problem when we consider these things independently, ignoring other government facilities, and since the school project turned down biomass, we know we have a supply in Norman Wells, an adjacent community.

There is a cost to conversion if a supply comes over later, and it’s much cheaper if we design the facility from the beginning to use biomass. Maybe I will leave it as a comment. I would welcome any comments from the Minister, but just as a comment, we need to get together. We can’t be doing these things independently when, if we got together, our utility rates would be going down. We’ve heard this is an issue for the Housing Corporation, a significant issue. We need to get together across departments. This government needs to play a role, albeit temporarily, in supply, if need be. With the school and housing and other government facilities, we could have an economic supply there, but dealing with them independently, we lose the opportunity to bring a supply of energy to the community that’s cheaper for residents, as well, and would benefit them. Just a comment there. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. We work with the Arctic Energy Alliance and they’ve done an assessment and even go into feasibility, and if there are opportunities, and once the supply increased, we have to play a role in that, then that’s something we would have to consider. We can convert these over to biomass quite easily. We thought with the solar panels it would be a bit of a start and then as supply improves, they can be converted over. So we haven’t ruled out all our options. We are still looking at the feasibility right now. We have until next summer. Construction will start in the next fiscal year, so we have a bit of time to do a bit more research, and if there’s opportunity there to incorporate this in, by all means that would be the wise decision to make. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for that from the Minister. A couple of other things, there’s been a lot of interest expressed on small houses, especially for seniors. Where are we at on that, Madam Chair? Are some of the units being proposed here small houses for seniors, or small units? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Not in this present budget. There’s none of the small units the Member is talking about for seniors.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Are we thinking of that? I mean, are we preparing to respond to that interest in smaller units?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Stewart

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member is correct; there is clearly a demand for single units that are out there. The Housing Corporation did some work a number of years back on the concept of a small unit. The costs were higher than I think made sense in terms of looking at that versus one-bedroom/two-bedroom type units. I think there’s some more research that needs to be done. I know there was a northern housing conference recently where there were a number of discussions around smaller units and those sorts of things, and I think it’s one of those areas of innovation that Member Dolynny spoke about that I think we have to continue to do the work and see if there are some options there. It really is the cost that has to drive us on that one and then recognizing that families continue to have fairly major needs as well. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Stewart. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. My last one. I see 159, according to my math, major retrofits proposed in this draft budget. First of all, I’m assuming these will include the attempt to bring our standards up to AEDG or as close as we can get. What proportion would this put us at now for all our units, given all the other renos we’ve done AEDG? If that’s not handy, maybe the Minister could provide that at some point in time. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member is correct; these 159, we call them modernization and improvement projects, they are to upgrade our energy in a lot of these units because a lot of them are older units, so there’s a lot of good work done on them there.

As far as the number, we will have to pull that information together for committee and then I will make a commitment here that we will provide them with that information as to the number of units that we’ve had over the last few years that we’ve gone

through the NMI process. So we’ll provide that to the Members. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I would be irresponsible not to ask about the plans for Detah and Ndilo. I don’t see any in the plans here for this coming fiscal year. I know there are needs certainly on the quality of housing, perhaps on the quantity as well. Could I get an indication from the Minister what the plan is for Weledeh?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We’ve got about $340,000 earmarked for Detah/Ndilo. That’s mostly in the homeownership side of it to help homeowners improve their programs. I think we still have some vacant units out there that we’re needing to deal with right quick here too. So $340,000 that we have earmarked for Detah/Ndilo in this upcoming year. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. NWT Housing Corporation, information item, finance and infrastructure services, infrastructure investment summary, agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed, thank you. Let’s turn back, then, to page 3-10, NWT Housing Corporation, information item, infrastructure investment summary. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed, thank you. Does the committee agree that this concludes consideration of the NWT Housing Corporation’s budget for capital?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed, okay, thank you. Thank you, Minister McLeod, Mr. Stewart and Mr. Anderson. I’ll ask the Sergeant-at-Arms if he would please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Is committee agreed we’re ready to move on to the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed, thank you. I’d like to ask the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Minister Robert C. McLeod, if he’d like to bring witnesses into the Chamber.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes I would. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. I’ll ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses to the table.

For the record please, Minister McLeod, could you introduce your witnesses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. To my left I have Mr. Tom Williams, the deputy minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. To my right I have Ms. Eleanor Young, who is the assistant deputy minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. To start off, do we have any general comments on the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs? Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have one comment and one question, I guess. I think the Minister is well aware that as communities accept more and more responsibility for their own affairs, they are also, at the same time, gaining more and more buildings and infrastructure, therefore, more and more costs. This infrastructure budget has remained the same for quite some time, but the responsibilities of communities have grown. This infrastructure budget can’t stay the same forever. So my question to the Minister is: When are communities going to see an increase in the infrastructure budget so that they can, as we are doing as a government, they need to do some of the deferred maintenance and so on that is required? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member is correct; the infrastructure budget itself hasn’t changed from the $28 million in 2000, but what we’ve done is we’ve heard from the communities and they are challenged, they are getting more and more buildings and they’re challenged with the O and M side of it. But we have made it a little more flexible with the capital budget where they’re able to use 10 percent towards their O and M.

As far as increasing the infrastructure budget, their biggest concern right now was the O and M side of it. We’re working with Canada to try to find out what our share of the new Building Canada Program is going to be. Until we hear that, we’re not anticipating any change to this particular budget. Maybe there might be some we look at next year.

I think we’re challenged for the next couple of years as far as our fiscal situation goes, but we’ve heard loud and clear from the communities that they appreciate very much the infrastructure they’ve been given over the years and the flexibility to choose their own projects, but their biggest challenge was the O and M. So we’ve put in there that they are able to use 10 percent towards their O and M. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Okay, I didn’t really hear from the Minister when or if – I hope it’s when – there will be

an increase to this infrastructure budget for communities. Is that in the future anywhere? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The earliest that there would be an increase to the budget is 2017. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Next for general comments I have Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have a comment I’d like to make on this department. The communities are very thankful for this capital funding that they got. Gone are the days when they put in a wish list of what they’d like to see in their communities. Now the communities make their plans of what they’re going to do and every year you see the communities building, building up their infrastructure and a lot of people working in the communities. I just wanted to thank the department and hope this keeps going in the future. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you for that general comment, Mr. Blake. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to respond. We appreciate the Member’s comments and he’s absolutely right; the communities have taken this responsibility. There have been some challenges, but for the most part they’ve done a fantastic job at determining their projects and their priorities, and you’re absolutely right when you say gone are the days when you tried to get your project into the capital system. So it’s been working and we’re quite pleased with how the communities have responded to the challenges of administering this themselves. They’ve done a great job. In many cases they’ve done it probably cheaper than we could have done it as a government. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next for general comments I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to follow up with Ms. Bisaro’s comment about the status of this budget staying the same since 2000 at $28 million. I think operational costs have certainly become a challenge and I know the Minister was dead on with that, but unfortunately, I think the expenses, general expenses, part of that equation means that infrastructure expense costs have escalated quite considerably at the same time. For example, I think our Minister of Finance has told us that we used to spend $75 million in our capital budget and we were happy to do that when we could achieve it, and that probably was about 2000 or maybe even a few years later than the year 2000 when we set this at $28 million. As everybody knows, we’re up regularly over $150 million, typically over $200 million. So there is a disconnect here.

I have to disagree with the total perspective that the Minister presented that it’s just operational costs. I think, in fact, the cost of putting infrastructure on the ground without even operating it has escalated considerably over that period of time. Just by way of supporting Ms. Bisaro’s concern that we hear from communities that the $28 million was welcome, the new approach was welcomed, but the amount just doesn’t seem to be having the same capacity that it used to. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. There is a full formula review underway right now including the infrastructure dollars, and we’re targeting ’16-17 as probably the earliest we can make the increases. Then we try and access any other monies that we’re able to through the Building Canada Plan and any other monies, the gas tax money. I mean, if there is any opportunity for us as a government – and we’re getting quite good at it – trying to access any pots of money so we can pull it into the Territories and distribute it to the communities, they’ve done a pretty good job with that. The review is underway and we’re targeting ’16-17.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. General comments. Next I have Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much. I raise the same concerns about getting an increment in the capital expenditures in MACA and a couple years is probably not soon enough for some of the communities out there that have growing infrastructure needs.

Aside from that, I just wanted to ask the question about the Wrigley water plant and what’s the process there. I know that’s not in this capital plan but it’s an old Build Canada funding. Thank you very much.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. I’ll refer that question to Ms. Young, please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Young

Thank you. Yes, that is a Building Canada project and the design is complete. We have a few issues with the design being overly complicated, and we are taking a look at a slight change in that design to make it more appropriate to the size of the community that Wrigley is. I believe our staff are actually going in to meet with Wrigley next week to talk about a slight change in the approach with the design to make it less complicated and more easy to operate at the community level. I believe they’re looking at actually putting a reservoir in as part of the project now to make the water quality handling a little easier, and so that project is still well underway and targeted for completion, I believe, next year.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Okay. So just with the change in scope, is it still manageable within whatever capital they had allotted?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Young

Yes. I believe that we don’t anticipate any further money from the community being required. It is something we can manage within the budget.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Young. General comments. Next I have Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Just a short comment there, Madam Chair. It’s just with the increase of the infrastructure in the communities. It’s very interesting to hear the Minister talk about further discussions and the formula funding. Of interest, I want to raise the point of type of infrastructure that possibly could be needed in the town of Norman Wells with the increase of the oil and gas activity and that sort of being the regional staging area for the oil and gas companies in regard to the different activity that’s going to happen this year and next year. Is that something that the government is looking at, that type of funding to support the town of Norman Wells on their infrastructure and the use of oil companies using their additional infrastructure, which is sewer and wastage in other areas that the town may not have the dollars to support that?

Also, along with some of the infrastructure that’s going into the communities, communities are starting to prioritize their needs, because they’re only getting so much money a year and they want to do many things. However, as you go further up north, the cost of living is high and the cost of doing business is high there. Is that something that’s considered in the formula?

I know there’s a formula, I just don’t quite understand it well enough there, and you don’t need to explain it to me now. Is that something that MACA has considered? I think that’s something that the community is getting used to, and when they take over some of the infrastructure, they don’t quite yet know if that’s a good thing or until they fully understand what it means to take over some of the infrastructure. They are planning some of their work out for themselves and it’s quite costly. Those are the points I wanted to raise. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Chair. We’ve worked closely with the communities, and communities have provided us with their five-year capital plan, because they realize how much they’re getting over the next number of years so they do a good job in prioritizing their investments over the next five years. I was looking at them, actually earlier this morning, and they’ve done a great job in some of their priorities and even

recognizing the fact that with development coming and that, you know, we’ve got to be ready for it. Again, it’s a decision that the community government makes.

We have assistant superintendents that we’ve hired in each of the regions and they are going to help – especially the one in Norman Wells – with identifying some of the challenges that may come as a result of resource development, so they will be in a good position to provide some advice and work with the community as to where some of their needs might be. But the community knows their needs better than we do and they do a good job in addressing it through their capital plans that they submitted to MACA.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Certainly, the Minister is correct on the needs are addressed by the community that knows it best in those communities, and sometimes the infrastructure, sometimes when it gets into the community, it has to go through some growing pains. I appreciate the Minister having some flexibility as to say, well, we can help you out here and there. I’ve seen that already, where some of the communities want to take over an operation but just don’t have it yet in our means or our understanding or financially and because of the new technology, and sometimes that causes a hiccup for the community. But I’ve also seen the Minister’s staff be quite flexible in helping them out. I mean, it’s not a cut and dried sort of a case here, take it or leave it. I’ve seen that flexibility with the Minister and the staff when I met with some of my constituents with the department, so I appreciate that. That’s what I wanted to come across, that there is some openness and some flexibility and some understanding that some of the infrastructure that’s going into the community in theory is good, in practicality sometimes it doesn’t quite match the theory of what we’re trying to do. But it’s also a good exercise as communities, again, looking at their top 10 list and saying, well, we can only do three this year and so forth. I mean, that’s understandable. However, I think this department is the one that gives most empowerment to the communities in terms of developing their communities. Just more of a comment there.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We see our role now as support to the communities. We work with them closely in identifying best practices, and if there’s a need to try and identify some financing that they have to go and borrow to see their projects come on stream, then we work with them. We point out some of the challenges they might face. Then, at the end of the day, after we provide them all the advice, the ultimate decision is theirs.

Again, I give a lot of credit to the communities. Through the NWT Association of Communities and Local Government Administrators of the Northwest Territories they’ve done a pretty good job in trying

to help the communities adjust to a lot of the new responsibilities they have. There are so many more people from the communities taking courses now through the School of Community Government. All the support systems are there and I like to say, at the end of the day, the final decision is the community’s, and that’s the way I believe it should be.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Any further general comments?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Detail. Okay. If I can refer your attention, please, to page 4-4, Municipal and Community Affairs, activity summary, regional operations, infrastructure investment summary, infrastructure investments, $28.002 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Page 4-8, Municipal and Community Affairs, activity summary, community operations, infrastructure investment summary, infrastructure investments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Back to page 4-2, Municipal and Community Affairs, department summary, infrastructure investment summary, infrastructure investments, $28.002 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Does committee agree that that concludes our consideration of the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Thank you, Ms. Young and Mr. Williams. I’ll ask the Sergeant-at-Arms if he would please escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Does committee agree we can continue on with capital estimates with Public Works? Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

With that, we will go to the Minister of Public Works to see if he has witnesses to bring into the Chamber. Mr. Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I do, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please escort the witnesses into the House. Thank you.

Alright, committee. Minister Abernethy, if you can introduce your witness to the Chamber, please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. With me today is Paul Guy, the deputy minister of Public Works and Services.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Welcome, Mr. Guy, to the House. Committee, we’re on Public Works. We’re going to start off with general comments. General comments, Public Works. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The comments that I have will focus around the upgrade to the Tulita fuel tank farm. We appreciate it and it’s looking like it’s coming together, and certainly, as I talked to the Minister earlier, and hopefully, once the Tulita tank farm has been completed, I would like to sit with the Minister and review the infrastructure on that project. There were some inquiries earlier when it did begin and there was some, I’m not too sure if it was a misunderstanding or a misinterpretation as to the project itself in regard to some of the community’s expectations and how the project has been carried out. I would like to, of course, when the project is done, sit down and review it and look at the project itself there. It is being carried out and I’d certainly want to know if it’s going to be done within the time schedule and the framework that was explained to us when the first project did come out on the capital plan books and the contract was signed, sealed and delivered and work started there. I wanted to ask that on the ongoing infrastructure.

The other issue I want to look at is, again, the energy conservation issues and projects with the Capital Asset Retro Fund under this program and looking at some of the issues that we have in Norman Wells with our own assets, buildings there, and helping out with the conversion. Helping out with the community there is something that I want to talk a little about and see what the department has been doing.

The gas taps will be turned off October 31, 2014. That’s one year away. We know that for sure and Imperial Oil will be turning off the gas taps to the natural gas to the town of Norman Wells. It’s quite ironic that we are sitting on a lot of fuel there, yet one of the taps is being turned off. We are looking at other means of energy, and certainly diesel, propane and biomass is being some of the energy alternatives that we could be using there. I want to ask about what’s happening in that community with our assets and I certainly look forward to seeing what’s being done to protect our assets. I will be asking questions later on about the support for business and residential homes at another time for support for my own people there. Those are my comments to the department. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. For that, we will go back to Minister Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member and I have had a number of conversations about that Tulita farm upgrade that we’re doing there. Just for the record, it is substantially complete. We’re using the old dispensers for the remainder of this year, as the new dispensers will actually be in in the spring. But for the most part, it is substantially complete and I have already committed to the Member that we would do a bit of a post-mortem on this project.

Having said that, we have also worked with the community and the Member and everybody involved when those issues did come up. I believe that we were able to address most of them. But lessons are always there to be learned, so I am absolutely willing to stand by my commitment to have a sit-down with the Member and whoever else when we are done, by way of a little post-mortem. On closure on that one, we will have that facility completely done early spring 2014, and pretty much the only thing left right now is the dispenser and a few other little tweaks. But the tanks are there, they’re being used and everything looks good.

The Capital Asset Retrofit Fund is obviously a program that we are incredibly proud of. We have been able to do a lot of good work with that. Obviously, we are willing to share any of the successes we have had with anybody. Some of the technology we have put into our buildings we are happy to sit down with anybody, both private and non-private, to talk about the benefits we can get so that people can see these benefits and hopefully start taking advantage of them on their own.

With respect to Norman Wells, we already have all the government assets off of the gas. In some cases we’re using different products. One of the things we’re doing right now, which I think is quite good, is we are currently putting in biomass on the school and the airport. We will be using biomass on the new health facility, long-term care facility, to provide heat in those buildings.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

No, thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Public Works and Services, general comments. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Just one more. I just want to again thank the Minister and thank the government for looking at the alternative heating system. I am very happy, at least for our assets, we’re off the gas and looking at alternative heating for our buildings. Certainly I will be asking later on. I had some discussion with the Minister of ENR in terms of helping the business outside the government’s

realm of responsibility, and the private homeownership is still somewhat our responsibility. I don’t know how I can word that. Anyhow, I’m happy that the school will be looking at this project along with the airport and, of course, our new health centre. So I would like you to see if you could work with the Minister of NWT Housing Corporation on the units that we’re going to be building in the Sahtu. This is the Fort Good Hope seniors unit that right now the corporation is looking at a solar type of energy unit for heating that facility, and the three projects that you talked about in Norman Wells should be enough supply to look at the seniors unit in Fort Good Hope as a means of having enough supply to maybe convert the seniors unit into a wood pellet, same as the school. We have the three major infrastructures that are going to be using biomass, so that should tell the supplier in Norman Wells we have the demand. We can bring the supply if we have the knowledge and confirmation that the Government of the Northwest Territories could use this type of alternative heating in Fort Good Hope. Any other infrastructure, the government is going to use in the Sahtu that we have a supply. We have a supply already, so they need to talk to each other to say, is it possible in Fort Good Hope. I think it is. The will is there. I want to ask the Minister of Public Works on this issue. It’s critical to the people in the Sahtu that we look at this. I think it can be done. I just want to make that comment. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I take the point. The Housing Corporation and Public Works and Services obviously are capable of sharing information back and forth. The deputy certainly has a number of conversations with the Housing Corporation on a regular basis. We will absolutely share all of the information we have and any of the technical specifications we use within the Public Works and Services-managed building projects and buildings.

Frankly, we all know that the biomass is a good product. It’s affordable, it’s environmentally friendly or certainly more friendly than gas or diesel. We are continuing to move forward. Coordinated through MECC is the Biomass Strategy. We are looking at a large number of facilities in the Northwest Territories and we’re currently doing feasibility studies on biomass projects at a number of facilities. Mr. Yakeleya, I apologize if I pronounce this wrong, but the ?ehtseo Ayha School in Deline is one that we’re looking at. The Chief Albert Wright School in Tulita is one that we’re looking at. The Chief T’Selehye in Fort Good Hope is one that we’re looking at. The ECE complex in Fort Simpson is one that we’re looking at. The Milton Building in Fort Simpson is another building that we’re currently doing some studies on to see about

putting biomass in. We will finish those studies and hopefully everything will prove out and we will move forward accordingly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Committee, again, we are on general comments, Public Works and Services.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

I’m hearing detail. Thank you, committee. We are going to defer 5-2 here and go directly to 5-4 in your capital estimates binder. Public Works and Services, activity summary, assets, asset management, infrastructure investment summary, infrastructure investments, $25.572 million. Does committee agree? Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to follow up a little bit. First of all, two things really. The Capital Asset Revolving Fund, are we planning on putting a cap on that, or are we going to allow that to build with the savings over time?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When that program was originally designed, we did have a target that we were working to, which is about $3.8 million, and eventually to have that completely self-funded. We’re rapidly moving towards that. For today, technically the answer is yes. There is a cap of $3.8 million. But I am very interested and I’m sure that others are interested, that once we are fully self-sustaining on that project, it would only make sense to look at a way to continue to expand that and fund it, obviously from within as well. The more we can save, the more we can cap that up, but right now and until we reach that, that’s our target. When we reach it, we will certainly re-evaluate.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister. I think that’s exactly what I wanted to hear. As we go down the road, the low-hanging fruit hopefully will be taken care of and some of our building practices will ensure that we have top grade and we don’t need to be retrofitting with the same degree of frequency. It would be nice to know that there is some thought being given to build for the more chewier problems we have along the way.

I brought this up once before and I don’t believe I got a response, so perhaps Mr. Guy would have the term I’m seeking here. There is an American engineer’s standard for energy. It’s more stringent than the Good Building Practices for Northern Facilities in terms of energy. From my look at it from another engineer’s eyes, it totally makes sense to adopt, and is being adopted more and more. So I’m wondering if I could get the Minister to commit to have a look at that and consider going to that. It makes even more sense in the North than it does in other parts of North America. Again, it is more

stringent than the Good Building Practices for Northern Facilities. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I’m just going back to the Capital Asset Retrofit Fund and I agree with what the Member is saying and I think we are both on the same page here. Having said that, we’re looking to get to the $3.8 million. Even when we do get to the $3.8 million, we aren’t stopping. We are going to continue to spend the money every year. It would be nice to see it grow, but let’s get to the target there first. As the Member knows, we already build to a higher degree than the Canadian Building Standards already, but I am interested to learn about this standard that the Member is talking about. Maybe we can get the Member to share with us the links so it will be a little easier for us to track it down. We, obviously, are always looking for ways to improve our buildings, to build buildings that are going to be more efficient and last longer in an affordable way. So I’m happy to have the department take a look at that and see if there’s anything we can steal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Committee, we are on page 5-4, Public Works and Services, activity summary, asset management, infrastructure investment summary, infrastructure investments, $25.572 million. Committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Page 5-7, Public Works and Services, activity summary, Technology Services Centre, infrastructure investment summary, infrastructure investments, $2.023 million. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Page 5-10, Public Works and Services, activity summary, petroleum products division, infrastructure investment summary, infrastructure investment, $910,000. Does committee agree? Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just briefly, I wanted to thank the department for something that’s really needed in the small communities. Tsiigehtchic is expected to get a fuel delivery vehicle and we are glad to have that. There are times when the community is in need of a backup fuel truck. Sometimes the vehicles break down. It’s always good to have a backup. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The way we accommodate that is the old vehicle will become the backup. It will not be taken out of the community. We will continue to use it, and many years down the road, obviously, when it’s

time, the new vehicle would eventually become the backup and it still staggers out in that pattern.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

A quick question, Mr. Chair. A tank safety valve device that we are putting into our tank farm, I know there was some issue with the Fort Good Hope specific parts and it caused some leakage to the community, to the department, and we had some issues with that. Is that somewhat being corrected? We had some losses in terms of quantity of fuel being spilled onto the ground there.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, it’s been completely resolved. There was some issue with some of the valves. There were some faulty valves that happened to be in Fort Good Hope and that was brought to your attention and you and I discussed it. We’ve dealt with that and we’ve looked at the valves that were bought that were similar, to make sure there were no more faulty valves out there. For a little more detail on that, I will go to Deputy Minister Guy, please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As the Minister said, we’ve resolved the issue with those valves. The contractor did complete the repairs to those valves and there was no cost to the Petroleum Products Fund as a result of the fuel that was lost. It was covered by the contractor’s insurance in the community. We have gone through and done an assessment on all the similar valves and we have ensured there is no issue with the valves that are in service. We will be moving forward with installing the additional valves next fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Chair, the Minister and deputy minister are correct on the issue here. I’m glad to hear that. I would remind the Minister that when there are issues like this, because we were caught off guard when we went to Fort Good Hope… Actually, we drove to the tank farm and we saw this. I wasn’t aware of it until I actually drove to the tank farm. If there is any type of reporting of future fuel spills, I would appreciate being notified by the department.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I remember how frustrating it can be not having the information and I apologized to the Member for that already and I will apologize again. It was a bit of a communication

error and we will make sure that when I know, you know. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

We’re on page 5-10, Public Works and Services, activity summary, petroleum products division. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There’s quite a drop in the budget that we see here, especially in the large capital projects in this division. I know this division is possessed about dealing only with fossil fuels and not opening the door to renewable energy, so they have a big expense for fuel tank storage. It needs to be secure. We’ve heard from my colleague about cleanup costs and so on, but there seems to be a lull, which I’m happy to see. Does that mean we have caught up now in our need to do renovations to fuel tanks and so on associated with the petroleum products division and we can enjoy a lull for a few years in those expenditures, and maybe even longer if we switched to biomass? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Chair, as long as these assets exist, we will continue to have to do some lifecycle upgrades and retrofits. This just happens to be a period in the lifecycle where there is none on the books today, but there will be more coming. We believe the next one that will need to have a complete upgrade, similar to what happened in Tulita, would be Whati. We want to do our planning on that to make sure we get it right and to make sure we have the life cycling of these things done appropriately so that we don’t experience any spillages or breaches in our tanks. So right now we’re just in a low point of the lifecycle but we know more are coming.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister for that. I know the Minister is well aware of the phenomenon such as the City of Yellowknife is investing quite a bit in composting and, through that, extending the life of their landfill and avoiding those upfront costs for another year or two or 10 or 20. That’s the phenomenon I’m speaking of here when I ask is the Minister working with government facilities and other departments as the community contemplates having a renewable source of electricity that will replace a lot of fossil fuels, and thereby avoid need for expensive renovations and upgrading to large facilities, and then perhaps moving to smaller facilities in the community of Whati, for example. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

In the communities where we have responsibility for providing the fuel, we do a bit of an analysis in the communities on what the demands are going to be. It’s not just home heating fuel; it’s diesel, it’s automotive fuel, sorry, aviation fuel, it’s all these things. I think it’s probably a little premature to assume that we’re

never going to need automobile fuel or aviation fuel. So there’s always going to be a need for some tanks, but I take the Member’s point that if we continue to move more in the way of biomass, there may be less need for larger tanks in the future.

There will likely always be some need for tanks as diesel is used for more than just home heating. But as we as a government continue to move down our strategy of greening our buildings and when we need things where we’re creating, I guess, capacity in communities where there will be market propellants, as long as we keep pushing these products into the community and start using them, we hope that other people in the communities will start to use them as well. It may in fact, in time, reduce our need to have large tanks. Today the tanks are still needed and as long as we need a large tank in, say, Whati, we need to make sure that that tank is as safe as can be. We need to make sure that it’s properly bermed and that’s it double-walled or triple-walled where appropriate, that the valves are good. So we want to make sure that what we put in there makes the most sense, but I take the Member’s point and as a government we will continue to push for more biomass in our buildings, we will continue to make those efforts.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I don’t recall making any such assumptions that we’re not going to need fuel for aircraft and so on. Whati was a bad example. I thought that was one that you were contemplating in the distant future, but I see now it’s actually part of this budget. I was meaning can we look an extra year or two down the road and start doing the work – the Minister said this seems like a reasonable approach – so that we can avoid and even delay and, in those delays, enjoy some savings for a few years to some of this work. But thanks to the Minister. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. I’ll treat that as a final comment on the subject. Committee, we’re on 5-10, Public Works and Services, activity summary, petroleum products division, infrastructure investment summary, infrastructure investments, $910,000. Committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Committee, can I get you to return to the department summary page. That’s on 5-2, Public Works and Services, department summary, infrastructure investment summary, infrastructure investments, $28.505 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that we’ve concluded with the Department of Public Work and Services?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you very much, committee. If we can get the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort our witnesses out of the Chamber. Thank you, Mr. Guy. Does committee wish to continue with the Department of Health and Social Services?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. With that, we’ll go to the Minister of Health to see if he has any witnesses he’d like to bring in the House.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have witnesses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Does committee agree to bring witnesses into the Chamber?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you very much. Sergeant-at-Arms, could you please escort the witnesses into the Chamber? Thank you.

Minister Beaulieu, if you could introduce your witnesses to the House, please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Yes, Mr. Chairman. To my left I have Derek Elkin, ADM corporate services. To my right is Perry Heath, director of infrastructure planning, Department of Health and Social Services.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Heath and Mr. Elkin, welcome to the House. Committee, we’re going to open up with general comments. I’m hearing none. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Department of Health and Social Services certainly has put some of its infrastructure where it’s needed, into our regions. I continue to thank the government for the support on the new wellness centre in Norman Wells and the territorial long-term care facility that’s associated with it. I know that’s something that’s needed and certainly the people in the Sahtu and surrounding communities that have sent out their elders to Inuvik or the Yellowknife area and to Fort Simpson appreciate that one day we will have a centre in the Sahtu, where we can have our elders closer to home who require 24/7 medical care. We certainly appreciate the support from the department to continue to push this, even though there are some dates that have been moved back because of some of the technical design issues and working in our region. So I wanted to say thank you to the Minister and his staff for moving on this issue.

We certainly look forward to the continuation of the planning study for the Tulita Health Centre. That health centre has been on the books for a while and I look forward to the Minister encouraging his staff members to conclude the issues that need to be to bring this forward to a decision level where funding

can be found for the construction of the centre in Tulita. It’s one thing to have a planning study completed; it’s another to find out where the money is going to come from to build it against all the other needs in the Northwest Territories on the medical services such as the infrastructure of this budget. So that I look forward to, seeing the Minister moving closer to moving it over, and to securing money for that facility. First the department needs to complete the planning study to build this infrastructure in the community. So I’d like to continue to press the Minister on this important issue.

The other one is the support on this is somewhat in line with my colleague from the Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake, in that we have the infrastructure. We need to now provide personnel to that community for comfort and security and protection of people and look forward to the Minister’s imagination as to how we could bring in personnel. I know we’re talking about the O and M; however, the infrastructure is there, we have the housing, we have the building. It’s not very cool to have an empty building. We certainly see a need in the small communities to put personnel into those buildings.

I guess I’m talking first things first in the health care in our smaller communities. There I wanted to ask the Minister on the different classes of communities. I have an understanding from the Housing Corporation that there are different classes as they allocate the funding for certain housing. There’s class C and B in there, so is that similar to Mr. Beaulieu’s response previously as the Health Minister, in terms of the different classes for the different types of health centres or health stations or regional wellness centres such as the Stanton Territorial Hospital? So we have different classes in our communities that receive different types of funding based on the regional and geographical area or the needs in that community.

I wanted to leave it at that. Those are my opening comments to the Minister. I do look forward to having some discussion later on, on the community programs for our communities through the Social Services, especially for some of the programs or some of the infrastructures that can be put in here in regard to the new direction that the alcohol and drug addictions programs will be taking. Is that something that we need to look at or is that something I need to come back to another time? I’ll leave it at that there at your discretion, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a health centre/long-term care combination building. It is a very elaborate building. I’m going to get Mr. Heath to explain some of the technical class, I guess, as the Member indicated, of the

building, but first to let the Member know that this is a building that is 4,000 square metres, approximately 4,000 square metres. We recognize there is a lot of staff to be trained. We’re in the process of putting the detail together and the training of the staff. We will also be going forward to the Assembly for all of the O and M that’s required to operate that building at the appropriate time. Before it opens we will have the money and we will also have the staff trained to go in there that can accommodate a building for its intended use.

For the interests of the Member, I will have Mr. Heath just explain the level of facility that we are constructing in Norman Wells.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Heath.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Perry Heath

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member talked about the classification of communities. Very quickly, for his information, we have several classes. A level A facility serves a population around 250 people. A level B facility services populations in around 250 to 2,000 in a program area. Level B/C serves large, in around 2,000, and our largest facilities are level F, which would be Inuvik and Yellowknife.

The Norman Wells facility is a level B/C facility, and it’s based on a classification that it is a regional centre. It does serve a wider population.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Heath. Next on my list I have Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to bring up a concern that’s been raised up in the Mackenzie Delta. As you know, for the last number of years the communities have asked for a long-term care facility. I know that we are expecting some elder homes, but many of the elders would like to stay within the community. I know it’s more difficult as they move on in age, but I think it’s time that we decentralize this care. I know right now we are practising bringing them into the regional centres, but I think we need to step back and go to the models that we once had. For example, the Joe Greenland Centre. I just wanted to raise that issue. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The example the Member uses, the Joe Greenland facility, is an NWT Housing Corporation facility. The Member is correct that at one point Health and Social Services had more involvement in supporting the seniors and the facility such as this. We are currently working with the Housing Corporation on providing that level of service again to the individuals at both the Joe Greenland Centre, eight units that added on to the seniors citizens home in Aklavik, and a new facility that is planned for Fort McPherson of approximately eight or nine units

that’s an assisted living facility. Part of the Housing Corporation’s inventory, but Health and Social Services is going forward with an enhanced home care project or program and our intention is to try to keep individuals in their home communities and even in their homes working, again, with the Housing Corporation on some homeownership stuff in their home communities, possibly in their homes, as long as possible as part of the continuum of care that we provide for seniors in part of a national project that is called Aging in Place.

That is what the Health and Social Services will be working on, and we agree that we need to provide a certain level of service to those communities to keep their seniors there as long as possible. However, it is very difficult and very costly to provide what we refer to as long-term care. That rating of care is expensive. It’s over $100,000 per person and is best housed in an area like Avens here in Yellowknife, Inuvik’s Woodland Manor, Northern Lights in Fort Smith, and a couple of the newer facilities that we’re earmarking as long-term care facilities, called long-term because that’s what they are. There are more services there but we can provide a certain level of service that’s required in the next level community that was essentially talked a bit about here in our last response.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Next on my list I have Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that we report progress.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. We do have a motion on the floor to report progress. If I can get Minister Beaulieu to take his Cabinet seat, please.

---Carried

I would like to thank our witnesses here tonight. If I can get the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses out, thank you.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Can I have the report from Committee of the Whole, please, Mr. Dolynny.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 107-17(4), NWT Capital Estimates 2014-2015, and would like to report progress. I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you. Do I have a seconder? Mr. Blake.

---Carried

Item 22, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Doug Schauerte Deputy Clerk Of The House

Mr. Speaker, orders of the day for Thursday, October 24, 2013, 1:30 p.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’

Statements

3. Members’

Statements

4. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

5. Returns to Oral Questions

6. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

7. Acknowledgements

8. Oral

Questions

9. Written

Questions

10. Returns to Written Questions

11. Replies to Opening Address

12. Petitions

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

- Motion 24-17(4), Extended Adjournment of the House to October 28, 2013

18. First Reading of Bills

19. Second Reading of Bills

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 3, Wildlife Act

- Bill 13, An Act to Repeal the Curfew Act

- Bill 14, An Act to Repeal the Pawnbrokers and Second-hand Dealers Act

- Bill 15, Gunshot and Stab Wound Mandatory Disclosure Act

- Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Justices of the Peace Act

- Bill 17, An Act to Amend the Protection Against Family Violence Act

- Bill 18, Apology Act

- Bill 19, Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act, 2013

- Bill 21, An Act to Amend the Dental Profession Act

- Bill 22, Territorial Emblems and Honours Act

- Bill 24, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act

- Committee Report 6-17(4), Report on the Review of Bill 3: Wildlife Act

- Committee Report 7-17(4), Report on the Review of Bill 24: An Act to Amend the Liquor Act

- Tabled Document 70-17(4), Electoral Boundaries Commission, Final Report, May 2013

- Tabled Document 107-17(4), NWT Capital Estimates 2014-2015

- Tabled Document 134-17(4), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 3, 2013-2014

- Tabled Document 135-17(4), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 3, 2013-2014

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

23. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Wednesday, October 24th , at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 6:04 p.m.