This is page numbers 1899 – 1936 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Topics

The House met at 1:32 p.m.

---Prayer

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Good afternoon, colleagues. Before our proceedings start this afternoon, it is my pleasure to recognize some folks visiting in the visitors gallery this afternoon. I’d like to recognize the following members of the Conservative Party’s Northern Caucus who are meeting in the NWT this week. First of all, former leader of this government, Government of the Northwest Territories, and now Senator for Nunavut, the Honourable Dennis Patterson. Welcome.

---Applause

Nunavut Member of Parliament, Minister of Health and Minister for the North, the Honourable Leona Aglukkaq…

---Applause

…who I understand was once a Page in this Assembly.

---Laughter

See? It all started here. The Yukon Member of Parliament Ryan Leef.

---Applause

Yukon Senator, the Honourable Dan Lang.

---Applause

Also with the Northern Caucus today are Sandy Lee, Minister Aglukkaq’s regional director of NWT, and former Minister and Member of this House.

---Applause

Donna Richardson, executive assistant to Senator Lang.

---Applause

This is something that the Clerk’s office didn’t prepare me for. I don’t know how to pronounce this name. I’m really sorry. Minister Aglukkaq‘s regional director for Nunavut, Elisapee Sheutiapik. Thank you.

---Applause

I apologize if I did not get that correct. A very warm welcome to the Assembly here today.

On to the orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Minister of Public Works and Services.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Public Works and Services

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In support of this government’s vision of an environmentally sustainable and prosperous Northwest Territories, the Department of Public Works and Services recently installed four more biomass heating systems in Fort Providence, Yellowknife, Behchoko and Fort Simpson.

In November Public Works and Services installed a new wood pellet boiler at the Combined Services Building at the Yellowknife Airport. This is the fifth such system the department has installed in Yellowknife, and it is expected to save the GNWT approximately 256,000 litres of fuel oil a year for an estimated annual savings of $130,000.

Elizabeth Mackenzie Elementary School in Behchoko and Deh Gah School in Fort Providence are also benefitting from this technology. Together the wood pellet boilers installed at these schools will eliminate the need for over 170,000 litres of fuel oil a year and will reduce greenhouse gas emissions by as much as 474 tonnes annually. The savings achieved by using biomass systems at these schools is expected to surpass $117,000 annually.

Earlier this year Fort Simpson’s central heating system started to operate full time on a new wood pellet boiler. This system links the community recreation complex, Bompass Elementary School and Thomas Simpson School to one boiler system. It will be able to accommodate expansion tie-ins to help heat other nearby buildings like the GNWT office building over time. Once fully operational, the system has the ability to displace up to 356,000 litres of fuel oil a year and reduce greenhouse gas emissions by an additional 971 tonnes per year.

Like the Fort Simpson system, the wood pellet boiler installation at Elizabeth Mackenzie School in Behchoko was also designed to serve multiple buildings. This installation will be able to provide

heat to the community’s sports complex and a future NWT Housing Corporation project.

Madam Speaker, these projects mark an important development in our approach to biomass technology. By designing systems that can serve multiple buildings, our government is better positioned to maximize our investment in energy efficient technologies like biomass.

These four newest wood pellet boilers are expected to save over $400,000 annually, savings that will grow should they be expanded. There are currently 20 government buildings benefitting from this technology, including our very own Legislative Assembly Building, which has contributed to reducing our greenhouse gas emissions by an estimated 25,000 tonnes since 2007-08, saving the GNWT an estimated $3.9 million total through the Capital Asset Retrofit Fund. This is effective, efficient use of public infrastructure that maximizes value while being environmentally sustainable.

Next, biomass projects are planned for the new health centres in Fort Providence and Hay River, the new office building in Yellowknife, and five buildings in Norman Wells: the new health centre, the long-term care facility, Mackenzie Mountain School, the airport terminal and the Combined Services Building.

The benefits of investing in biomass and other alternative energy technologies continue to speak for themselves, and I look forward to providing Members with updates on these projects as they progress. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Shale oil resources promised to secure our energy future and has the potential to change the North forever as the Northwest Territories grapples with the applications for horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracking required to tap in to these resources.

We have to weigh the pros and the cons of this technology. The basic drilling and fracturing process has a long history in the oil and gas industry. Experienced drillers and engineers can’t predict a well’s requirements and impacts. Technology is constantly improving. Industry has demonstrated an improvement in using less water and fewer harmful chemicals. Canadian producers are moving towards full disclosure of fracking fluid. Proper well casing and cementing prevents groundwater contamination. Once a well is drilled,

crude oil can flow up to 20 years. The economic benefits we could achieve through hydraulic fracking and development of the northern shale resources under careful regulations and controlling pace and scale could outweigh many of the risks, as the risks are huge, Madam Speaker.

In central Mackenzie Valley, shale play is considered a frontier development because previous oil and gas production is so limited here. The Northwest Territories has an abundance of water resources. We are the stewards of these resources. Our elders have always told us if we take care of the land, it will take care of us. Currently, we don’t have the capacity to deal with the wastewater from drilling and the long-term impacts of disposable wells are unknown.

If gas was to flow, even in the early stages, the existing Enbridge pipeline would have to be twined. There’s still no all-weather road into the Sahtu region. We can guess the impacts of hydraulic fracturing based on what we see in other places, but we cannot predict the real long-term impacts on the land, the animals, the lakes and rivers of the Sahtu.

We don’t have to look any further than boom towns like Fort McMurray, Alberta, or Fort Nelson, BC, to see some of the social effects of fast-paced development. This winter we have seen how exploration alone stretches the capacity in our communities. Mental health and addiction issues are the barriers to local Sahtu people in benefitting from development. Successful and responsible development of the Mackenzie Valley shale oil play will require focusing on the Mackenzie Gas Project in terms of government resources.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Yakeleya. Your time for your Member’s statement has expired.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

[Microphone turned off.]

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Mr. Yakeleya, could you please make that request again on the record.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

The Government of the Northwest Territories has been called upon to develop a policy on hydraulic fracking that recognizes the pros and cons of this technology. We must move forward on this important work to guide responsible decision-making in the future. The people of the Northwest Territories and the people of the Sahtu deserve nothing less. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I just wanted to speak about community wellness plans in the riding of Nahendeh today.

I was pleased to see each of the communities I visited on my January tour were telling me about the communities’ wellness plans, and the communities have done a lot of work getting it together, but I think it’s now time for government to do theirs.

They spoke to me about the continuous need for funding resources, most particularly when it comes to travel. The small, remote communities have additional costs of air charters and utilizing the local hotels.

In larger communities, programs like the $500,000 Wellness Program will go a lot further in Yellowknife than a community like Trout Lake or Fort Liard or Nahanni Butte. I just wanted to let my colleagues on the other side of the House know, as we move forward and start to fund our community wellness plans, we’re going to have to make special arrangements to ensure that travel costs are taken into account.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I must revisit a service need that this government has been ignoring for too long. The NWT needs 911 phone service.

In a 2009 City of Yellowknife feasibility study, a study in which the GNWT was a full participating member, the recommendation was that 911 service should be established in seven of our 33 communities to start and that it be expanded to the other 26 communities as soon as possible. Now, more than three years later, there’s been no action on this issue and it is crucial that this government recognize and accept our duty to assist the City of Yellowknife in the establishment of this service.

The need for 911 has been talked about for over 15 years. The City of Yellowknife has completed not one but two studies as they try to solve the implementation riddle. As far back as 2001, the NWT chief coroner articulated the need for 911 service and attributed a death in 2000 to the lack of 911 service.

When I brought this up in the House in 2009, I heard the MACA Minister of the day advise that the government would only be involved in the implementation of 911 service if the service was

provided to all communities in the NWT at the same time. Well, that argument will soon be invalid.

Since 2005, thanks to the NWT Broadband Project, 19 NWT communities have received enhanced broadband Internet services, and over the next two years a partnership between Infrastructure Canada, NorthwesTel and Falcon Communications will bring 3G mobile Internet services to 25 communities in our territory. Eighty-five to 90 percent of NWT residents will have cell phone service in their community in two years’ time.

A stated goal of this Assembly is sustainable, vibrant, safe communities. The best way for this Assembly to accomplish that goal is to plan for and fund the implementation of 911 service in the recommended seven communities. A phased-in approach still makes the most sense. With financial assistance from the GNWT, we can start now in those communities that already have the appropriate infrastructure and not deny the majority of NWT residents a much needed public safety service.

We have to bite the bullet and do the right thing. The City of Yellowknife is still willing to take the lead. The GNWT must partner with the city and get the implementation of 911 service on its way.

I will have questions for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs at the appropriate time.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is again an honour to say the word “Madam” Speaker today. I just want to say that on the record.

Today I would like to say thank you to the organizers, stakeholders, governments and participants of this year’s NWT Wellness Conference that happened this past weekend in Yellowknife. I had the pleasure of spending a large part of my Saturday morning going from booth to booth and talking to the various exhibitors and experts. I also managed to listen in on one or more of the many panel forums that were offered throughout the weekend.

I consider myself a traditional primary care stakeholder because of my pharmaceutical background, but I must give credit to the many other alternative healers there are in the NWT. There were too many wellness opportunities to mention today in my statement, so I wish to touch base on only a couple of the opportunities the public had to witness, such as naturopathic doctors, fitness, internal health, chiropractic, massage therapy, life coaching, yoga, prenatal and birthing, breast health, meditation, foot reflexology,

homeopathic treatments, Aboriginal healing and holistic coaching.

[English translation not provided.]

Other stakeholders, such as our Public Service Alliance of Canada, were there to advocate for health and safety. We had the NWT Native Women’s Association in attendance to help empower and support Aboriginal women in the NWT. The Healing Drum Society was there to explain their services for residential school survivors, and not to mention our Yellowknife artist-run community centre that provides a vessel of creativity would be amiss on my part.

I wish to also mention that we had a number of hardworking GNWT agencies in attendance, and I was taken aback by the incredible talent we have at the helm of many of our services, such as our Healthy Choices for Healthy Communities and our Sport North Federation, who assist in the promotion and development of our amateur sport in the NWT.

Once again, I thank the organizers of the NWT Wellness Conference and participants for a job well done for our northern residents. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I want to salute the City of Yellowknife and Ecology North as the co-winners of the 2013 Federation of Canadian Municipalities Sustainable Communities Award in the waste category. The award recognizes the impressive achievement of piloting and then implementing the first phase of an organic waste composting project.

From 2009 to 2012, the city partnered with Ecology North on a centralizing composting pilot project to learn about and test the process and to evaluate the feasibility of a full-scale operation. The three-year project looked to composting in cold climates and whether the city could do more in this area.

Twenty businesses and institutions participated, including two multi-family buildings, restaurants, grocery stores, the correctional facility, schools and the hospital. Seven hundred sixty-five tonnes of organics were collected, about 9 percent of Yellowknife’s organic waste stream. After two summers of processing at the landfill site, two batches of Yellowknife Black Gold Compost passed laboratory tests as high-quality Category A compost which can be used for any application, including for residential gardens, landscaping or agriculture.

The first sale of Yellowknife Black Gold Compost occurred in September 2012. Organics and diversions saved 960 cubic metres of landfill space, avoided about 870 metric tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions, saved $144,000 in landfill space and generated $7,000 in revenue.

Throughout these efforts a vigorous program of public education and involvement has promoted the benefits of reducing the environmental and budget costs of waste. It’s working, because people, businesses and institutions got on board. As a result, this year the city will begin construction of a full composting facility, expand commercial and institution organics collection and plan for residential curbside collection.

The Canadian Association of Municipalities and the Federation of Municipalities have recognized the success with their prestigious national award. Special recognition goes to the City of Yellowknife’s public works director Denis Kefalas, solid waste facility supervisor Carl Grabke, and Ecology North’s program coordinators Shannon Ripley, Dawn Tremblay, and assistant director Kim Rapati. I invite this House to add its congratulations to that success. Mahsi.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I had the opportunity to travel home to Inuvik this weekend and it was a really great visit. It was a very busy weekend, actually. I had a lot of meetings with a few organizations as well as many constituents regarding a whole bunch of different issues.

The one issue that I wanted to bring forth today that I’ve been fighting for, and a lot of Members have been fighting for here over the last 16 months, deals with mental health and education; two of our biggest components for government and probably some of our biggest cost-drivers for the budget here within the government. I heard that again when I went home this weekend. In fact, I heard that the Department of Health and the Department of Education have to do a more collaborative role of working together to address these issues. They have to address the mental health and addictions issues that are happening in the schools, but at the same time, our Health and Social Services department needs to also be proactive in educating our community.

It is Education Week and, although it is still Education Week, it doesn’t have to fall upon one department. All departments have a role in

educating our residents of the Northwest Territories into how we can better serve our residents with programs and services, and how we can better spend these dollars or help our residents through some of the programs that we have.

Further to the discussions that I had with my constituents back home, and other organizations, we talked about the funding formula. As you all know, the Beaufort-Delta region has a really high cost of living. Anywhere you travel in the Beaufort-Delta, whether it’s to Sachs Harbour, Paulatuk, over to Aklavik, Tuktoyaktuk, there is a really high cost to go and deliver services or programs. When we go through our funding formula, whether it is for health and social services, education or any other programs that we offer, it’s based on a territorial mechanism. We have to look specifically at the Beaufort-Delta region and the high cost of living and the travel that has to go in to providing those services.

When I talked to my constituents this past weekend, they re-emphasized two things: the mental health and addictions need to be addressed, and education in the schools needs to be addressed. The funding formula of how we spend dollars in the territory, the Beaufort-Delta needs to be looked at, and it needs to be addressed as well. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to start with this: The Access to Information and Protection Policy that governs the Northwest Territories has a particular section, called Section 5, that a person who makes a request for information pursuant to the act has a right to access any record in custody under the control of a public body.

There are some provisos, and of course, the proviso is that we cannot reveal trade secrets to third parties without prejudice of their competitive position of the third party. However, I would like to further say there is Section 5(2) of the act that states that exemptions are reasonably provided when you can sever that particular information requested without, of course, offending the person of the request. You are probably asking what am I talking about, as many other people are wondering as well.

Recently, I had asked for information regarding the Deh Cho Bridge electrical works contract, and that particular contract was issued and, of course, has been closed. The person that won the particular contract demonstrated that they had no northern

content. A constituent of mine came forward with a particular concern, and they sent information that showed and further demonstrated that they had northern content but they also showed that the winning bidder had no northern content. If you look closely at the tender documents, you will note the fact that it required northern content.

What is an MLA to do? I e-mailed the department and asked for information, and my request was simply, in summary, asking for, can I have proof that they had met the requirements under what is called section B which would have shown northern content. Of course, I stressed that if there was confidential information that cannot be shared I did not ask for that, but what I asked for was information that would be kept confined in a manner for the public trust. Of course, if it was sent to me, I assured them that I would keep it under that context.

The issue is, was there northern content in this particular project. The winner of the bid is from down south, so are we letting our contract go, perhaps in this case, to the lowest bid but to someone who did not comply with the actual tendering document requirements?

The response from the Minister’s office is basically saying no, we are not sharing this information. It is confidential the way they see it under their disclosure issues. I am going to end with this: There is no way to prove that they complied because the department won’t share it. There is no reason for me to say they didn’t comply. The fact is I am only asking for transparency, which every single Northerner deserves in this particular regard. I will be asking questions. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Premier McLeod.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to recognize guests from the National Energy Board: Gaeton Caron, chair and CEO of the National Energy Board; Lyne Mercier, board member of the National Energy Board; Bob Vergette, board member, National Energy Board; Jamie Ballem, board member, National Energy Board; Brian Chambers, professional leader, northern engagement, National Energy Board; Celine Sirois, technical leader, environment, National Energy Board; Susan Gudgeon, leader, paralegals, National Energy Board. Welcome.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Premier McLeod. Welcome to the visitors. Ms. Bisaro.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would also like to recognize Mr. Brian Chambers. He’s been an acquaintance for a long time, and a

colleague. We worked together on municipal issues when I was on city council. Welcome to the House, Brian.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Yakeleya.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I’d like to also recognize the National Energy Board team, specifically Mr. Brian Chambers – I’ve also done some work with him – and also Chairman Caron.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Dolynny.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I’d like to introduce to you and through you my newest member of the Range Lake constituency office, Mr. Grant Pryznk.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment. I understand that ITI and ENR are working on guidelines for hydraulic fracturing. What will these guidelines include?

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Minister Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We continue our work on developing guidelines for hydraulic fracturing here in the Northwest Territories and we are going to make sure that we get it right. We’ve engaged a number of experts in the area and, in fact, even today had a meeting with the National Energy Board here in our Legislature. Also, last week we were speaking to the Government of Alberta through Minister Ken Hughes, the Minister of Energy in Alberta.

There are a lot of folks out there that want to help make sure that the Northwest Territories gets this right. We’re also following developments out east in New Brunswick with their guidelines. We’ll ensure that we do get it right and we hope to have a reply to EDI’s report on fracking sometime during the life of this current sitting. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

What is the Government of the Northwest Territories doing to address the capacity needs in the communities in connection with the exploration activities?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

As evidenced through this budget that was just presented to the House, we

are taking very seriously what is happening in the Sahtu, not just on the economic side but also the social side of policing, education, things like that. In my department we’re looking at adding a business development officer in Norman Wells to help address the issues surrounding business development and opportunities for people to get into business in the Sahtu. So we are answering the call when it comes to what is happening in the Sahtu. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. I want to ask the Minister how often he meets with federal or industry representatives to discuss the needs of the development in the Sahtu region.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you. Any chance I get. Today it was at least three times. Any opportunity we get to let our federal colleagues know about what is happening in the Sahtu. Again, we have the National Energy Board here today. I met earlier today with the BDIC through my department at ITI. We really are getting the word out about what is happening there.

There’s going to be close to $700 million spent in the Sahtu in the coming few years. So we need to ensure that we are answering that call and we intend to do just that.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The vault is slowly opening up so that the needs of the Sahtu can be met.

I want to ask the Minister about hydraulic fracturing. What is the Minister doing with the National Energy Board, federal government and this government to give the people a very clear-cut educational opportunity to know about this technology that would help the industry or harm our environment? What is the Minister doing to make sure the people know what hydraulic fracturing is all about?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

We’ve done a number of things. We’ve had a number of meetings in the communities in the Sahtu. We’ve taken the Members from the Economic Development and Infrastructure committee on a fracking tour. There have been leaders from the Sahtu attend a fracking tour in Calgary as well. Sometime in April I’m hoping to get a group of business leaders from the Sahtu down to southeast Saskatchewan and into North Dakota to talk to Aboriginal leaders in Bakken about what has happened there, and how Aboriginal governments and leaders here in the Northwest Territories can translate what is happening in the Sahtu to business opportunities for their people and make a better life for them and their families. Certainly, we’re looking to get the guidelines right. It is taking us some time, but I want to assure the House and the Member that we want to make sure this is done right. We can’t afford to

mess this up. Rest assured, if there’s no fracking in the Sahtu, there will be no development, so we need to ensure we get it right.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I’d like to follow up on my Member’s statement with questions for the Minister of ITI. In my statement I talked about the recognition success that Yellowknife has achieved on composting in partnership with Ecology North. While a project such as the Yellowknife central composting facility may be beyond the scale of our smaller communities, there are valuable lessons to be learned here. One Ecology North staff active in this project is from Hay River. Ecology North has been a prime mover in the local community garden effort. I’d like to ask the Minister if he can tell us what part composting development plays in the delivery of our agricultural programs.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. David Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe composting can play a very big role. We were just down in Hay River this fall opening the egg grading facility there. I had an opportunity to tour the chicken barns that are there, and the amount of manure that is produced from those barns and how that’s going to be used as compost into developing other types of agricultural development in the South Slave. It was something that was very interesting.

I think there is a role for composting in communities that can take a look at it, and it is something that I know we have an agreement with the federal government for the Growing Forward 2 monies. It’s about $6 million over the next five years. It is something I think we should spend some time on and ensure there is a program to allow composting in communities that are looking for that opportunity.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I do note that I have used both that chicken manure and the Yellowknife composting products in my garden at home and I know many have. Obviously the goals Yellowknife sets out to achieve – waste reduction and making soil amendments available – are challenges facing our communities, all of them. Partners have learned that aggressive public education and motivation are essential for promoting participation.

With community gardens really taking off around the territory and very small transportation distances, there seems a big opportunity to begin establishing the habit of household composting as a contribution

to community gardens. My question is: Will the Minister commit to directing his agriculture program staff to examine opportunities to build composting into community garden projects?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment

Again, I think this is an important topic and it certainly is something I will agree to go back to the department to get them to have a look at. Education is a good thing, getting posters out, getting community announcements out on the benefits of composting. I think most people would understand what those benefits are. We need to do that and we’ll take a look at that, and I thank the Member for raising that issue today.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for the comments and commitments from the Minister there. Obviously there are some real linkages with Municipal and Community Affairs here. The savings in landfill costs is in the $100,000 range. Organics, I believe, are often in the order of 25 or greater percent of the waste stream. Here is another opportunity for cooperation: the possible examination of helping communities set up organics drop-off points at the landfills.

Will the Minister commit to gathering the information I’ve requested from his staff and then consulting with the MACA Minister on possible opportunities and reporting to committee on his findings?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment

That is something that we could do. Perhaps the Member could also get the EDI committee to write to us. I’d be more than happy to work with my colleague Mr. McLeod with MACA to get a better understanding of how this would work, and I look forward to a letter from committee, and the commitment of the Member to take a look at this and put some tangible things in place so that we can make a difference here.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My questions are directed to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. I want to follow up on my statement about 911 service. At the time that the city completed the feasibility study, along with a number of other partners, the recommendation was that it be started in seven communities – that’s the majority of the residents within the NWT. About 75 percent of our residents live in those seven communities. About 50 percent of our residents live in the City of Yellowknife. The start-up costs, at that point, were estimated to be about a million dollars, which was, unfortunately, beyond the possibility of the city alone.

I’d like to ask the Minister, now that we are well along our way to getting cell service in every community, whether or not he would entertain a proposal from the City of Yellowknife for partnering with them to implement 911 service.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe we also partnered with the city when they were doing the report. The Member is correct; there have been a number of things that have improved since then. What I said at the time was that we do provide a lot of infrastructure money to the municipalities, and if they wanted to use that for implementation of 911, then that would be a decision that they would make. However, looking at the overall picture, maybe there is an opportunity now to sit down and review a proposal that the city may want to put together. Short answer the long way was yes, we will be glad to look at a proposal from the city.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. McLeod seems to have a particular skill at taking the long way around to come to a yes. I thank you, Minister, for the yes. I’m smiling when I say that.

I appreciate that the Minister referenced gas tax money and, absolutely, there’s gas tax money, but I think the Minister also knows that community infrastructure needs are huge. I think Yellowknife’s alone – and I don’t have the exact figure – is millions and millions of dollars. I appreciate that he’s willing to entertain a proposal. I will certainly pass that information on to the city.

I know that this year’s budget is done, but I would like to know from the Minister if there’s any possibility of funds being included in the 2014-2015 budget. That would be the end of the two-year period when all the cell upgrades are done. Is it feasible that we could start now to look at earmarking some money for the 2014-2015 budget for 911 implementation?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

Planning now is already underway for the 2014-2015 budget. We will be glad to look at a proposal. There is opportunity for an investment from this government and something that we would have to look at. We’d work very closely with committee and we’d work very closely with communities to see if there are opportunities for them to use some of the infrastructure money they get.

The Members in this House are well aware that MACA really doesn’t have very much money, where 78 percent of our money goes out to the communities in the forms of infrastructure and O and M. There are opportunities there. Planning is underway for the next budget cycle, and if there are opportunities, I believe we’ll have to explore those.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for his response. I had a couple more questions where I was going to ask him to help us out, so I’ve already got a positive answer, so I’m a little stuck here. The Minister mentioned that MACA doesn’t have money and I appreciate that. I recognize that MACA in itself doesn’t have funds that it can give to communities for infrastructure needs. However, the government does have that kind of money, and I think if the Minister were to represent communities and make the pitch, I guess, to Cabinet to put that money in there, I think it’s possible that out of the grand picture of our $1.6 billion we could put some money in.

I’d like to know from the Minister if he will, as a champion of municipalities – which I think he is and I hope he will continue to be – do that on behalf of, at this point, the City of Yellowknife.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

I do champion the needs of the communities within the Cabinet table as well as my colleagues championing the needs of the communities that they represent. I have to tell the Member, if there is a proposal that comes forward, we have to seriously have a look at it, understanding that technology is changing. Again, we have to work very closely with the communities, because this is not going to be a system that would apply to all 33 communities that we represent.

If the city wants to come forward or any other jurisdiction wants to come forward with a proposal, we will have a look at it and see if it fits within our budget, see if it affects the infrastructure money that we give to the communities, because there’s $28 million that we distribute to all 33 communities. There are opportunities there and I do commit to the Member that we will explore all avenues and go forward from there.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I, too, have questions for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod. Recently the towns of Norman Wells and Behchoko narrowly escaped disasters with their town losing gas supply and power, respectively. I do applaud the hard work of all those who came to the table to restore these services in these communities. As is also known to Members of the House here, I have actually spoken many times about our community emergency action plans as well as our emergency preparedness for our communities.

With this in mind, I would like to ask my first question to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. What was the formal synopsis or recap with the efficiencies and effectiveness of

these two emergency action plans for both Norman Wells and Behchoko?

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The honourable Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Robert McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have to commend the leadership of Norman Wells. They acted very swiftly when the situation arose there. I have to commend them for that. They had a plan in place. I believe they were probably a couple of hours from evacuation, but they mobilized very quickly with the help of the municipal government and our folks on the ground there. That situation was handled very well. They had an emergency plan. They implemented it and it went very well. It went a long ways to preventing further disaster there. As far as the Behchoko situation goes, I think the lesson that came out of that situation was we need better work to do with the folks in Behchoko. I think there was a bit of miscommunication not knowing who the contact person was in charge. I think we learned a valuable lesson from that, and it’s a lesson that we plan on taking forward and preventing something like this from happening again.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

I, too, want to earmark the fact that a lot of people were involved with the communities and they should be commended for getting these communities back on line here. The Minister mentioned opportunities and that’s where I want to focus the remainder of some of my questions here. What did we learn from these opportunities? The Minister indicated communication. Maybe the Minister could elaborate a little bit more with respect to communication. Was there a proper communication plan for the Behchoko situation and, if so, what did we learn from that or what opportunities did we learn from that?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

I think we learned a very valuable lesson in the Behchoko situation. First of all, there should be a central contact number, central contact point. There was a bit of confusion there. That’s one of the reasons that we encourage our communities to come up with an emergency action plan. Most of our communities, I have to admit, have an emergency plan and a lot of them, from past experience, have learned some lessons and made some changes. This is one, again, that we will take some valuable information away from and to ensure that hopefully doesn’t happen. But if another situation like this arises, they are well prepared to deal with it. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

I want to definitely say the Minister was very forthright during at least the Norman Wells situation. He did actually come to the Members’ offices to share information, which I do applaud and appreciate those actions. However,

throughout the course of the day, communication was probably scarce at best, and I did have to rely a lot on news and social networking, the tweeting that was going on. One CBC reporter was doing an incredible job.

Are there opportunities within these communication plans to help improve the communication of these types of disasters with the general community as well as elected leadership. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

Madam Speaker, in situations like this with the situation in Norman Wells, we informed the appropriate Member from that constituency. If communication skills like we need to get information to all committee members, maybe it’s something we’ll have to do in the future. As far as the Behchoko situation, the protocol, we contacted the appropriate Member for that riding and informed him as to the situation there. Again, there are opportunities that we could share the information with all Members. I’d have to find out exactly what the protocol is, if we share the information with all Members or if it would be the appropriate Member’s responsibility to share with all Members. I’ll find that out and I will communicate that to the Member. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Again, I do appreciate the genuine offer from the Minister and I will definitely take him up on that offer.

Very simply, I know I’ve brought up in the House, a number of times, the number of communities that are prepared in the event of an emergency, what our plans are. Can the Minister maybe give us a brief update as to which communities may still be not on the list of having a proper plan in place or a number that may be still out there for opportunity so we can get all our communities in a safe environment? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs

I know we do work with a number of the communities to update their emergency plans. For the actual number and which communities, I don’t have that information right now. However, I will commit to the Members that I’ll compile a list of communities that don’t have emergency plans, but I don’t think there are very many. I think they all understand the importance of having emergency plans, and they’re working on those and updating ones that haven’t been updated for a while. But I’ll get the numbers and I will share them with the Members. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister McLeod. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I have questions for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and it’s with regard to the e-learning pilot project that’s happening in the Beaufort-Delta right now. As I mentioned earlier, to make any travel to the communities is very expensive. What the Beaufort-Delta Education Council is doing is very innovative and unique in getting the education courses out to the communities very promptly and very efficiently.

I want to ask the Minister of Education Culture and Employment, what are the department’s plans for the future of this project when it concludes after the next fiscal year. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I’d like to commend BDEC for the excellent work they’re doing with e-learning. This is an area that we are exploring with other communities as well. As you know, we service 33 communities. With this particular work, we’ve dealt with Alberta Distance Learning at the beginning of the initiative in 2010. Since 2010 we have continued on with the district education authority taking on the initiative on their own.

It’s been very successful to date. There have been approximately 136 students that have taken the program and 110 were successful. That’s just a capture of the success.

We provide funding to work towards this important initiative of $100,000 in 2011-2012, with possible renewal over a two-year period. So we’re at that stage. We feel that we need to continue with this e-learning, along with other communities, to deliver those academic programs that may not be delivered in small communities. So we’ll continue to make those initiatives into the communities. Mahsi.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Madam Speaker, the Minister did mention that there’s a possible renewal and he did mention the success rates of how many students go through this program and actually proceed.

In the small communities we have one teacher that might be instructing three different levels of education: Grade 10 level, Grade 11 and Grade 12 level. The e-learning program would bring students at the advanced learning into programs specific with a teacher in Inuvik or a teacher in Fort McPherson that might be teaching and other communities could come on.

What I’m asking for the Minister today, after this program – he stated just earlier that it is a very successful program – would he commit to ongoing funding for this program that would cut costs down

of providing teachers into the communities, sending teachers into the communities, providing housing and all the travel that goes on in the Beaufort-Delta. Would he commit ongoing funding for this e-learning program so that we could get more communities on base with the e-learning program in the Beaufort-Delta region so that students can learn in the comfort of the communities that they grew up in?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Madam Speaker, as I stated, the funding is in the process of renewal up to 2013. Beyond that we need to deal with the Beaufort-Delta Education Council and how we can move forward.

As I stated, I’m very interested in having the continuity of e-learning. Again, we have to service all 33 communities, so we’re currently dealing with the school boards at this point. If we’re going to commit the funds, then those are the discussions that we need to have at that level, then it will be brought back to the standing committee as part of the business planning cycle as we move forward. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Madam Speaker, I guess this kind of goes on. If there’s no commitment right now and they have to reassess, would the Minister commit to possibly providing more teachers, then, or more teacher assistants to the communities that need it? If he’s not looking at an e-learning program and the possibility of continuing this funding, which I didn’t hear a commitment from, would he commit to providing more teachers so that one teacher doesn’t have to be instructing three different levels of grade level programs? We need some commitment so we know what our Beaufort-Delta Education Council can look forward to in the future and start planning today for the future of our youth and our children. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Madam Speaker, I didn’t say if I have committed or not on this particular initiative. I stated that we need to deal with the school board and identify the importance of delivering this program into the communities.

What I can state is we are going through various initiatives within the Government of the Northwest Territories. Education renewal is before us. Part of the pillars is professionalism, dealing with the teachers. Also, there is a Small Schools Initiative, the funding that goes to the community, the programming and the delivery. So those are the discussions that will be initiated with the stakeholders. We will be sharing their input and if there’s a need for a continuation and expanding it further with e-learning, then those are initiatives we will bring forward to this House. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Final supplementary, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I understand we’re going through an education renewal process, but this program is new and I don’t feel that there needs to be renewal on this successful program that is already bringing a lot of students in the smaller communities up to par and advanced education where they weren’t two or three years ago. This doesn’t need to be renewed; it needs to be supported.

With that said, earlier in my Member’s statement I did make comments about formula funding and the money that the Beaufort-Delta Education Council does receive. They only receive so many dollars, and they stretch those dollars to ensure that they can provide these services.

Would the Minister commit and look at reassessing this formula funding so that our region, with one of the highest costs of living in all of Canada, can actually provide some of these programs and services to the communities that need it? Can he commit to that? Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Madam Speaker, the educational renewal will deal with that matter as well. What I can commit here is that the renewal of the e-learning up to two years from 2011-12, so we do have some time this year and next year, what has been laid out here.

This is an area that we will be discussing with the Beaufort-Delta Education Council. We will update the standing committee on the results of our discussion and then the next step. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My questions will quite obviously be for the Minister of Transportation, if anyone was listening to my Member’s statement. I am sure they were listening very carefully, of course, as to how important it was. Everyone was.

That said, I had asked the Minister’s office for detail on schedule B, or I should say Appendix B, to prove that the contractor had won the electrical bridge contract fairly and squarely. Maybe the Minister could, for the education of the House, say who officially won it and did they have northern content as required in the tender process. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This tender was won fair and square. It was won by Can-Traffic at a cost savings of about

$800,000 to the taxpayer here in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I want to thank the Minister for putting Can-Traffic on the record. This isn’t an issue about cost. This gets down to the bread and butter of ethics of how contracts are won and awarded and, certainly, issued.

Did Can-Traffic fill out Appendix B as required in the contract? When I e-mailed the department, they refused to show me that they even complied, so nobody even really knows. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Madam Speaker, the GNWT public tender process was followed. Three compliant bids were received and evaluated. Those bid prices ranged from $1.149 million to over $4.1 million. The lowest acceptable bid was deemed suitable and the award letter was sent out at the end of January. To my knowledge, that was followed.

If the Member would like further details, he is able to see, through ATIPP, whatever he wants to view. We provided the Member with whatever we could provide him with. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Madam Speaker, I had asked for information, even to be blacked out, to prove that they had actually complied with the contract bidding process. As I said and I continue to say, part of the Appendix B had to be filled out that demonstrated they had a northern component. This is just an awarding of a sub to a southern company to yet again come do northern work.

Will the Minister comply with my request, which is by e-mail, asking for them to prove that they filled out Appendix B? The way it stands now, they did not and nothing says they complied fairly. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Madam Speaker, they were not credited with any northern content, yet again, they were $800,000 below the next… And this is after the BIP adjustment. They were $800,000 below the next bidder, saving taxpayers’ money.

As to whether or not Appendix B was filled out, I can get the Member a yes or no answer to that. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish I had the former AG’s official comments here last week from which she talked about some of the senators’ expenses, such as accept but verify. How do we verify a yes or no? Quite frankly, a yes or no does not prove to the public that they actually complied with the requirements that everybody else was following. Yes, I’m happy that the lowest bid may be getting it, but the fact is I am happy maybe for the wrong reasons.

Will the Minister prove publicly that they complied with all the requirements as set out to the bid? All we are asking for is a fair playing field. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Madam Speaker, we want to ensure that there is a fair process. Certainly I’m not saying that the Member is correct or incorrect. I am saying that the process was followed. The contract was awarded. If the Member wants other information, I’ll do my best to get him whatever information that he needs to satisfy his requirement that Appendix B was filled out and that all the proper steps were taken in the award of this contract. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I was going to follow up to my Member’s statement in listening to the people of Inuvik, and listening to some of our educators and parents and our constituents. My question today is for the Minister of Health and Social Services.

In his action plan, we talk a lot about mental health and addictions in the communities and in the territory, but one place that we don’t really bring it up or talk about it is in the schools. I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services what is his department doing to address some of these mental health disorders such as behavioural issues, violence issues, some of these issues that are possibly happening in the schools. What is he doing? How is he working with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to address some of these mental health concerns that are happening in our schools today? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I guess the first thing under the total umbrella of a chronic disease strategy is mental health. As we develop that strategy, we are looking at all aspects of mental health. As we have travelled to the communities, it was apparent that there needs to be some counselling at the schools and so on, targeted to mental health. Also, when the addictions forum is travelling they have indicated that they would like to look at some wellness in the communities, and they are going into the schools to talk to the students there and target also mental health. Thank you.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister… I know he has a forum out there asking questions, but he’s also got an action plan

developed. I saw it in this House maybe two weeks ago. Why are we sending people out there when we have an action plan here already to be put into place?

What specifically is in his Mental Health and Addictions Action Plan, what kind of services and programs does he have identified for youth in the schools? It’s not youth outside of the schools. I want to know what is happening for them in the schools so they are not disrupting other students. How do you get these students that are in the schools the proper care and treatment that they need so they can succeed? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Madam Speaker, I think the department recognizes that, along with the authorities, this is sort of like an issue that is a looming issue right across the territory with youth. Whether or not we are going into the schools to do the counselling, it’s not as simple as the Department of Health and Social Services indicating we’re going to go into the schools to start counselling. We have to work sort of interdepartmental with ourselves and the Department of Education. They have to, in turn, work with the school boards in order to appoint counsellors for the schools. We are preparing for that.

We have the Stanton authority working with the Dalhousie University on mental health and psychiatry. These are the things we’re doing, but it will still take some work and some legal process to get the counsellors into the school. Thank you.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Madam Speaker, he didn’t really make reference to some of the things that are listed in his Mental Health and Addictions Action Plan. But it’s not all about counselling. We can talk to people until their ears fall off and still nothing’s going to go through. It’s about intervention.

What is the Minister doing to intervene with some of these students at an early age or at the junior high level or even at a senior high level?

What is this Minister doing or even working with the Department of Education to intervene to address some of these needs that these children are requesting and are asking for, or some of our teachers are asking for this intervention to address some of these needs in the schools with mental health and addictions?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Within the action plan, as the Member referred to, we are promoting understanding, awareness and acceptance of mental health. Those types of things are in the very initial steps in order for us to potentially intervene, if necessary, in the schools. But again, prior to intervention there’s a lot of other work that has to occur. Like the Member indicated, there are things in the action plan, yes, I agree, they’re there, we put

them there for a reason and these are the very initial steps to understand it. This is an issue that is becoming quite a huge issue right across most communities, and we recognize that and we are trying to address that as soon as we can. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Final supplementary, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When the department finally addresses some of these concerns, what is the department doing to ensure that students who need these extra resources and that need this help and these services are not provided in the Northwest Territories for the students that need it? In fact, these services aren’t even provided for for adults that need it, and students are very critical. They’re learning and they’re developing, and yet we’re still waiting to find out what they need. But when he does find out, how is he going to assure that they get the services when we don’t even have them in the Northwest Territories? What’s his action plan to get these services and resources for the students that need it in our communities so that they can grow, develop, learn, become educated and become part of society? What is he doing and where is he looking to send these students that need the help that they do need? Thank you.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. Some of the actions would be some of the mental health first aid, some of the actions where we’re trying to improve efficiency of services is as simple as having discussions. Just to be able to allow the students to talk about mental health, that is within our action plan. This is a fairly complex issue coupled with fairly complex processes that involve a couple of departments for us, as a department, working through our authorities to enter into the schools with mental health counsellors, we have to first do some evaluations of students. Students, in order to be evaluated, it has to be agreed by the parent that this student has a mental health issue and needs to be evaluated. So there are things that we need to do. We need to put things in place and we’re forging ahead to do that. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Yes, Madam Speaker, I’m going to continue to ask questions on this topic because it’s a very important topic. We’re letting people slip through the cracks, as we like to say it, and it’s not fair to the parents, it’s not fair to the teachers and it’s not fair to the students. Somebody has to take charge here. I’m talking about intervention and integrated services. I talked all last week about how

departments need to work together to provide services to be more effective and to providing these services and programs for the residents of the Northwest Territories.

Would the Minister of Health and Social Services commit to working with the Department of Justice or the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, and somebody take the lead to create a team to go into the schools and intervene at an early age, or in the junior high setting so that we can get these kids early on so they can be successful and get an education and, like I said, become part of society?

I’m going to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services specifically, but I’d like to see one of these Ministers step up to the plate, create the team, find the resources and go out to the communities and start addressing this issue that’s an issue to the parents, to the community and to the teachers, our staff, the ones that we are supposed to be supporting? Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will commit to having the discussion. I think we’re a ways down the road with this, but again, there are certainly pieces of the puzzle that have to be put together in this whole area. I will commit to discussing this with the Minister of Education, Minister of Justice and also to, I guess, present this possibly as a supplementary or a budget item that will be presented to the committees in the Legislative Assembly.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you. I appreciate the Minister making that comment of possibly coming back to the House with a supplementary appropriation. Just to offer a little bit more information in terms of whom we’d like to see at this table, seeing as I have some time here and there’s no other questions, we need nurses, we need social workers, we need teachers, probation officers, the RCMP officers, community counsellors.

Would the Minister take the lead, create this team, create a budget and possibly do an outreach program? Would he commit to doing an outreach program or look at a pilot project where there’s an outreach program to the communities in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

That would be quite a team alright. We would be able to work with that, I believe. What I will do is, again, take it back to Cabinet colleagues. We do have a Cabinet committee in the social envelope. So we can take it back to the chair of that committee with the Department of Justice and, hopefully, as we move along, we will also keep the Standing Committee on

Social Programs informed as we move forward. Thank you.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you. We always say it takes a community to raise a child, and the Minister’s reference, that is quite a team. I don’t know he took that in reference, but that’s all the communities when I worked with the Interagency Committee, when I worked with the Department of Health and Social Services, when I worked at the regional level, we all talked about creating this team and that was over 10 or 12 years ago. Yet we’re still looking at trying to create that team. That team needs to be developed, either regional-based or territorial-based, and money needs to go into that now. When I go home for the weekend and the majority of my concerns are around education, around health and social services, mental health and addictions, then I have to bring it to the floor and get it addressed. Would the Minister not only look at a territorial aspect but also maybe a regional aspect? Thank you.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. We can begin the work on this. It would probably be outside of this current budget process that we’re engaged in, but we can begin the work. Like I indicated, we can begin the work through the Minister that’s responsible for the social envelope, the Minister of Justice, and then at the end, I guess, also present it to the Regular Members to ensure that it’s in line with what they see as a good solution to addressing these issues. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It’s almost been two weeks since I raised the issue of gas prices here in Yellowknife and the requirement possibly of legislation, or I should say regulation on this particular issue, the only way to get to the bottom of it. The day after I raised the issue, I had a couple of Ministers – they must have been lost – on our end of the hallway for some reason or another, but a couple of Ministers had asked, did my comments in the House change the price of gas and I’ll have to tell you no, it did not, because I filled up my vehicle the other day and I noticed it’s still stuck solid at $1.38.9, or I should say frozen at that price.

My question of the Minister of MACA is he said two weeks to even consider this particular issue. Has he done anything other than just wait for industry to respond? Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think the Department of Public Works has done some work on this. I had thought that the price was going to go down with some public pressure and being raised here. Apparently that didn’t happen. I will talk to my colleague over at the Department of Public Works and see what the plan is going forward. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

In the interim, at the suggestion of my colleagues Ms. Bisaro and Mr. Dolynny, they suggested setting up a petition. As such, I have done that on the Legislative Assembly website. Of course, don’t worry, a press release will be on its way very soon.

That said, what is the government going to do about public engagement on this particular issue to raise awareness and also seek the appetite of the public? Do they want regulations on this issue or should we allow industry to enjoy the price setting as it is now?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I think through the petition that the Member has started, we’ll probably get a lot of concerns about the price of gas not only from Yellowknife. I’m sure there are residents across the Northwest Territories, Inuvik for example. I think we’re very low today. I think it might be $1.87. That’s not too bad. I’m sure they will have some concerns with that too. So it’s an issue that affects residents all across the Northwest Territories. I know some would love to pay the price they pay in some of the larger centres but, unfortunately, that doesn’t happen. I’m sure through the petition, that will be the public voice and we’d have to listen to that. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

People in Yellowknife would like to pay the price the expert down in…(inaudible)…had suggested, which was about $1.14 or so, in that range in Yellowknife. A couple of weeks ago when I raised this particular issue – and this is not a point of criticism, but I’m going to ask what the Minister has done since then. This is the area of consumer protection. This issue was a new area for him and he wasn’t familiar with it. He has been Minister for some time in this particular department. In the last two weeks, what has he done to educate himself in these particular areas as to his authority about taking action on this issue that is critical for people of the Northwest Territories?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I educated myself by checking on the gas prices here in Yellowknife. I educated myself by checking on the gas prices in Inuvik and all the other communities across the Northwest Territories to see what they’re paying. I had a brief conversation with our consumer affairs person to see if they’d been getting a lot of complaints and a lot of concerns. He said there wasn’t very much at the moment, but he was sure it was going to pick up. I had assumed, that’s why I

spoke to the Member afterwards and I asked him to give me an update, because he was going to check on the prices of gas in the city to see if they had gone down. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen. So we’ll have to decide if there are any next steps we take from here. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Will the Minister help me and help the House by allowing himself to go get educated in his area of authority on this particular issue? Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The Minister is very well aware of his authority on this issue and he continues to try to monitor, tries to protect the consumers out there. I think it’s something we as MLAs, not only Ministers, have to do. We have to make them aware, we have to make industry aware, we have to do our due diligence, do our homework to see if they are being charged fair market value. So the Minister is well aware of the authority he has not only in this portfolio but his other portfolios and we will exercise it when we have to. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Minister McLeod. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I had an exchange earlier with the Minister of Transportation that the only one element that I think was left out of this particular issue was timeliness of his response to complying with my request. The issue is that this bridge contract has been tendered. If you read the details, it looks like it’s been awarded, but has the contract been signed? So timeliness of his response to my office is significantly critical on this issue to ensure a contract isn’t dotted. If we find out that the contract did not fully fulfil its original intent and it’s already been signed, it may be too late.

Madam Speaker, would the Minister commit to have that information I requested before the end of the week to ensure we haven’t missed the timing window? Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister of Transportation, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When DOT awards a contract, obviously they are going to go back to the company that won the contract and do a technical review of the information that was provided in the tender documents to ensure the due diligence is done to ensure the work can be performed as stated in the tender, and in the case of the electrical contract for the bridge, that was done. We haven’t had Can-

Traffic do work for us before, so we were extra diligent on trying to find out and get the references, and do that technical review before that contract was awarded. Madam Speaker, any information the Member requires, we will do our best to get that information to him.

Also, I am aware that Can-Traffic did indeed provide Appendix B as part of their bid package to the Department of Transportation. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

What I’m asking is, will this information all be sent to my office. It can be blacked out hiding proprietary information. I understand that. But there needs to be proof that they complied with the requirement as stated out in the tender, which is to demonstrate that they have northern content. That is the critical issue, to make sure that information is conveyed before the final contract has been signed. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

If the Member wants to get us a list of exactly what it is he requires, the contract has been signed. We’re more than happy to provide him with whatever information we can provide him with. On Appendix B, it speaks to the company’s ability to do the work. It talks about who they would bring in as their subcontractors. It talks about their ability to get the job done in dollar values. That’s proprietary information and that’s not something we would normally share with anybody. That’s how they won the contract, that’s how they are going to do the work. Certainly, we can provide it, but we’d have to black out names of companies and dollar amounts. Appendix B wouldn’t be much to look at with all that information blacked out.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

They could have complied with the award by leaving those pages blank, as well, by submitting them. That could have been an essence of how they complied with the greater contract.

The issue is simply I cannot take good faith on this. I am looking for information that proves they complied with the requirements and my e-mail dated February 13th asks for that information. I am

not sure I need to resend it. Thank you. That’s my question. Will the Minister reconsider my e-mail sent February 13th ? Thank you

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Again, we will run this past our lawyers and we will find out if we can provide that level of detail to the Member. Whatever we can provide to the Member, we will give to the Member. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Just a caution to Members, for the benefit of the public listening in on this, referring to documents/letters/e-mails that are not before the House, it doesn’t lend itself to people understanding what you’re talking about, so I’d ask Members not to do that. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I’ll take it as notice, the answer.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Item 8, written questions. Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

1. Please provide the exact number of GNWT

contracts that have been awarded to southern contractors that were not registered under the Business Incentive Policy for the 2011-2012 and current fiscal years.

2. Of these contracts awarded to southern

contractors, can the Minister provide me with the number of change orders that were done to adjust the contracts?

3. Can the Minister provide me with the exact total

costs of these change orders?

4. Of these same contracts won, can the Minister

provide me with how many of these contractors came back to the GNWT asking for a supplementary appropriation to complete the project?

5. Can the Minister provide me with the total cost

of these supplementary appropriations?

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Transportation.

Please provide a spreadsheet that identifies all deficiencies and any outstanding work required on the Deh Cho Bridge, specifically noting the following:

• what are all the deficiencies;

• when was each deficiency identified;

• what is the estimated cost of each deficiency;

• who is responsible for each deficiency;

• when will each of the deficiencies be addressed;

• who will be correcting each deficiency; and

• for each of the deficiencies noted, if they were

part of the original scope and, if not, when they were added to the project.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services.

1. Please provide the total number of emergency

hospital visits for the fiscal year 2011-2012 and the current fiscal year.

2. Please provide the total number of visits to

health centres for fiscal year 2011-2012 and the current fiscal year.

3. Of the total number of emergency hospital and

health centre visits during fiscal year 2011-2012 and the current fiscal year, how many were alcohol and/or drug related?

4. Of the total number of alcohol and/or drug

related emergency hospital and health centre visits, how many were classified as mental health disorders with self-harming or suicidal indications?

5. Of the total number of alcohol and/or drug-

related emergency hospital and health centre visits, how many individuals were released from care and how many were sent to institutions specifically for alcohol and/or drug treatment?

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, replies to budget address, day seven of seven. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Mr. Blake’s Reply
Replies to Budget Address

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I’d just like to commend Cabinet, through this budget for 2013-2014, for taking the recommendations that came from committees. Whether it was Social Programs or EDI, Cabinet has taken a lot of advice from the committees during their business planning process. Also, Cabinet has taken recommendations from committees like the rural and remote communities. I’m hopeful we can implement more in our next budget and create more opportunities for communities.

In the communities, especially the smaller communities, there are a lot of challenges in services. I think that, working together, we can overcome those challenges and I look forward to this year coming.

Mr. Blake’s Reply
Replies to Budget Address

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Blake. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Mr. Yakeleya’s Reply
Replies to Budget Address

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to also thank the government for their –

---Applause

Well, you know, when there were things that we talked about in September, the government certainly has listened. I have witnessed this over a period of time that some of the responses to the Sahtu region, because of the oil and gas activity, that we need help in the region. The government has responded in the budget. I have listened to some of our committee meetings and there are some things you win and some things you don’t win. That’s part of the process here.

For the people who elected us in this consensus style of government, this is the only opportunity that we, as Regular Members, have a peek at the proposed budget. We compete against the department assets, against the department’s plans, from the communities’ plans, from what things that we see when we go back to our ridings as what we need in the community. There’s a big wheel there that we try to get in there to change it. I want to say that, still, the government needs some constructive criticism in this budget and I want to do that when I go back to our communities in the Sahtu.

Still in Colville Lake there is no RCMP station. One of our goals is to provide safety and protection for our people. There is no physical nurse in Colville Lake. We don’t have that yet. There are a number of communities in the Northwest Territories that do not have the safety, health, or protection of these two enforcement departments – Justice and Health. Some of our schools need to be upgraded or replaced. Members here talk about that. We have Members all around here that know that.

In the budget I know the government is doing its best with what we are receiving. We get about 35, if we look at $100 of the budget, we get about $0.75 from the federal government. We’re still under that rule, yet until we come to a place where we will be in more control of the budget.

The government with its bureaucrats at the head looking at how we protect our assets and what things we need in the Northwest Territories, we go through that process. The government, with the Cabinet on this side, has listened to us. Sometimes we don’t think they are, but they are listening to us. It’s a real juggle as to what we do. The Minister of Finance has always said, our needs far outdo the money that we’re getting from the federal government or the money that we can produce in the Northwest Territories.

I’ve been in the House for close to nine years and I will continue, still, to fight for the value of protection, health for the people of Colville Lake. I will still fight for the things that we need in the Sahtu, the basic requirements that other communities have in the

Northwest Territories. Just last year the government finally put proper toilets in our schools and health centres. It’s a good thing.

With this budget I do want to say thank you to the Ministers for responding to some of the needs in the Sahtu. We are competing against other needs in the Northwest Territories at different levels. Our region is developing. It’s developing into a region. We have the have-nots and haves in the Northwest Territories. We have proper running schools. In some of the communities we do not have some of the courses, or even some of the facilities in our schools. Mr. Menicoche talked about them. Yet we juggle our needs. Some communities have hospitals, regional hospitals, that now can have their babies being delivered there at the same community. Some communities have to fly in the young mothers and stay in Yellowknife and live there for a month and have their babies delivered in those hospitals. That’s just the situation we’re in.

I hope that we come to a place where there is some sort of equalization amongst our communities so that all the communities, for the Minister of Justice, that we could get money so that he can put RCMP in Tsiigehtchic, in Colville Lake, I’m not too sure of the other communities, Gameti maybe, Wekweetì, all around, that our communities then know that the government is true to their word in terms of protection and justice. That they can sleep just like us. We sleep and we know that there’s an RCMP station in our community. We want to give them that serenity, that feeling of being looked after. Why do my people go to a health centre not knowing that there’s a nurse that’s trained to look after their needs? We should have that kind of money to have nurses in our community.

This budget talks about the haves and have-nots. That’s our job as MLAs, as Ministers, and as MLAs on this side to hold them accountable to where the really essential needs are being taken care of. I want to say that during our discussion here, those are the questions that we ask the Ministers to be accountable for and look at some of these things. Some of our communities are just at the brink of becoming a developing community or a developing region. Some of them are still undeveloped. We need to look at that.

I applaud my Members on this side here for speaking up and asking for the needs of their own constituency, their own ridings, and the Ministers for listening. You’ve come back with a good budget for me. It tells me that you Ministers are doing your job and you’re helping my region, and other regions also, for their wishes. It’s always the same. If you had enough money, we would do a lot. I know that. I see that. The struggles as to how we put some of our needs in our region.

I want to publicly say that to this government here and this budget here that we’re working hard. It

takes a lot to make commitments and this budget address, hopefully, then will begin to look at some of the things that are very basic yet.

I said I’ve been here for eight years, close to nine years. God willing, I will finish my term and we will at least see some of these basic needs being looked at, being considered in the budget under the capital or O and M, that we can have some of these basic needs met in places like Colville Lake, Wrigley and Tsiigehtchic. Our people know that the value of protection and health care is paramount in the government’s eyes to say that we can put a position there. That requires all of us to look at where we want to put our dollars. That’s a real challenge for us. We Northerners, MLAs would like a good challenge. We’d like a good challenge to know that, outside of this building here, some of our basic needs in our smaller communities are being met, not only in some of the larger centres where they get their services.

It’s a region, I want to let the Minister’s know, that I appreciate you responding very positively to what’s happening with the oil and gas. Thank you very much for continuing to work on the budgets. We win some, we lose some, but I think our wins are getting more and more because the Ministers, for me anyway, are listening to some of our needs in the Sahtu and in some of the smaller communities. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Yakeleya’s Reply
Replies to Budget Address

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Bromley.

Mr. Bromley’s Reply
Replies to Budget Address

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just a few brief comments here. I want to start off by highlighting the statement by our Finance Minister that no non-renewable resource revenues will go towards government programs and services. Again, great concerns on this point and it flies absolutely in the face of what our Premier has said to the nation, very publicly on TV just days before this budget address, where he explicitly said that non-renewable resource revenues will, in fact, be used for programs and services, and I agree with that. So I assume there will be some correction made on that in line with the Premier’s comments.

That sort of approach actually reflects our ever-increasing tendency to make things a luxury for industry and austerity for our people. What we need is real balance between those. We need both of those categories to be supported but in a serious balance. Right now I think Members will agree we have some major deficits in the programs and services that we offer. To that end, in fact, we have made lots of suggestions, in fact, some very explicit suggestions particularly in the area of health and renewable energy, prevention and justice. Unfortunately, I saw none of those requests

responded to in this budget and we will have an interesting discussion over the next few days.

I might add that the interests of Members are so modest that we are talking about less than one-half of 1 percent of this budget. That’s sort of hard work that has been done by committee to carve down our ask into a very reasonable amount, recognizing that we do need to live within our means. At the same time, we do need to serve our people and our people are speaking to us.

I think we’re all excited about the new mines that are lining up for development in the Northwest Territories, but how many people are already being brought in from outside the Northwest Territories to work in our diamond mines? We’re failing on that front. Look at our small communities; look at the unemployment there. We have some serious challenges here and we have some amazing opportunities to do things differently to help, for example, build local capacity and build our local economies. This Member and my colleagues, I know, stand ready to work with Cabinet to really access these opportunities and make sure we do a good job there.

Although we have a long way to go, we are hopefully getting on the road and we’re here to help. I am looking forward to discussions with the remainder of this budget. I appreciate this opportunity to respond to the budget address. Mahsi.

Mr. Bromley’s Reply
Replies to Budget Address

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Item 12, petitions. Item 13, reports of standing and special committees. Item 14, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 15, tabling of documents. Minister Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to table the following document, entitled Public Accounts 2011-2012, Section I and Section II. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Minister Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Madam Speaker, I wish to table the following document, entitled Workers’ Safety and Compensation Commission, Corporate Plan, 2013. Mahsi, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Jane Groenewegen

Item 16, notices of motion. Item 17, notices of motion for first reading of bills.

Item 18, motions. Item 19, first reading of bills. Item 20, second reading of bills. Item 21, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters. Before the committee today is Tabled Document 9-17(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2013-2014; and Bill 1, Tlicho Statutes Amendment Act, with Mr. Dolynny in the chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Good afternoon, colleagues. I would like to call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 9-17(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2013-2014. We will deliberate Environment and Natural Resources as well as Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

We will commence after a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Welcome back, committee. I’d like to turn our attention to Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Miltenberger, do you have witnesses you’d like to bring in the Chamber?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, can you please escort the witnesses in, please.

Minister Miltenberger, if you care to introduce your witnesses to the House, please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have with me Ernie Campbell, deputy minister of Environment and Natural Resources; and Nancy Magrum, the director of shared services for ITI and ENR. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Campbell, Ms. Magrum, welcome back to the House. Committee, we are on page 13-21, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, forest management, operations expenditures, $32.067. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you very much. Moving on to 13-22, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, forest management,

grants and contributions, grants, total grants, $100,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Contributions, total contributions, $100,000, total grants and contributions, $200,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Page 13-23, Environment and Natural Resources, information item, forest management, active positions. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Seeing none, 13-24 and 13-25, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, wildlife, operations expenditure summary, $15.286 million. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have some questions here with regard to caribou management and caribou quotas and so on. I heard the Minister say when he responded to opening comments where he talked about the resident harvest and that there’s a possibility the resident harvest might be opened up in the fall of this year, of 2013. I didn’t hear him say anything about an opportunity for outfitters to have tags in the fall of 2013 or fall and winter 2013-14.

I am really concerned that our caribou hunt outfitters are in great distress. I know that they have had some assistance through the Sport Hunt Outfitters Marketing Program, but to have facilities sit and basically deteriorate over time through lack of use, that’s what most of them are doing.

It would seem to me that we should be able to provide some tags this fall for outfitters. My understanding, in speaking with the outfitters, is that they don’t want tags for the Bathurst herd. Not all of them, but the majority of them, from what I understand, don’t hunt the Bathurst caribou anyway. They hunt the Bluenose-East and the Ahiak herd. So it would seem to me that if we’re going to open up the Bluenose-East herd to resident hunters, we would also be able to open it up to outfitters and sport hunt outfitters.

So I’d like to know from the Minister, first of all, if there has been any consideration given to providing tags for the caribou outfitters, and I’m coming again from the perspective of a number of these businesses are within the city of Yellowknife. They may not necessarily be my constituents, but they are constituents certainly of other Yellowknife Members and, like I say, they are really struggling. Their businesses are quite likely to fold if we don’t get them some tags sometime soon. So, again, my question with regard to the possibility of providing some caribou tags to outfitters in the fall winter of 13-14. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My understanding – and I’ll ask Mr. Campbell to speak further to this – is that the majority of outfitters that the Member is talking about harvest the Bathurst herd for the most part. We have commenced discussions with the various boards, with the Bluenose-East as well. We’re having discussions with Nunavut as well as the Beverly Qamanirjuaq Board and we’ll be talking to the appropriate Aboriginal governments, as well, about the Ahiak-Beverly herd and the numbers that have come in. At this point the restrictions in the Bathurst ban area are going to continue until the next census and the population count is done.

So chances are there will be no change to those conditions in the banned area, and we are working, as I indicated, with the various appropriate parties and governments and boards to review the resident hunter harvest as a first step towards getting back so that Northerners can all harvest, keeping in mind that before we can actually move to the full unrestricted harvest for everybody, we also have to be prepared to say the herds can sustain unrestricted Aboriginal harvest as well. So we have some careful steps that we do have to follow. Mr. Chairman, with your indulgence, I’d ask Mr. Campbell to speak a little more specifically about the location of the various outfitters. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The information that we have with the collared animals shows that a majority of the outfitter locations over the years have been primarily the Bathurst herd. That is, on occasion, where the Bluenose-East do come into the northern end of that outfitting corridor around the Point Lake area, and the last couple of years I think the Bluenose-East has… Well, I know the Bluenose-East has come into that area, but as far as the Bluenose-East coming down further into some of those other established areas for that particular time of the year, they still would not be getting Bluenose caribou.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Thanks to the Minister and the deputy minister. I want to emphasize that I am not asking on behalf of the outfitters for tags for the Bathurst caribou. That’s not what they’re asking. They’re asking for tags for the Bluenose-East, and I was pleased to hear the deputy minister mention Point Lake because that is one area, one outfitter who specifically believes that the Bluenose-East are near their camp and would like some tags for the Bluenose-East herd.

So it seems to me that we’ve got perhaps not a lack of communication per se, but a lack of full understanding of where each party stands, perhaps.

I guess my next question to the Minister would be whether or not he and the department would initiate a discussion with the outfitters, certainly the outfitters towards the northern end of the range, I guess. My real concern is that if we don’t get tags to the outfitters within this next 12 months, so to speak, that they’re going to fold. They cannot keep operating with no business and they have tried to diversify, but even the diversification has been a real struggle and they’re basically losing money every year.

The outfitting business was bringing millions and millions of dollars into Yellowknife and the NWT and we have lost that revenue. I think there’s still an opportunity to get it back. I think there’s still some interest in caribou hunts from the people that take advantage of it. Apparently they’re still getting requests from clients. Are there caribou tags? We want to come and do hunts. That interest is only going to last for a short period of time. Odds are pretty good that if there are no tags next winter and the winter after that, the inquiries are going to stop coming and then these guys are truly out of luck.

Will the department look at meeting with the outfitters that some of us Members have been talking to and seriously considering their request for a limited number of tags for the Bluenose-East herd in fall-winter 2013-2014?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The issue with the caribou is a wildlife management conservation issue first and foremost. As our system is set up, the Aboriginal subsistence harvest has priority, followed by the resident harvest and followed by outfitters, commercial harvesters. When there are any restrictions, when we have a voluntary harvest quota on the Bluenose-East, we have to be prepared to say that before we can open up outfitters’ harvest to the Bluenose-East, for example, we have to be prepared to say that the herd can sustain unrestricted Aboriginal harvest as well as the resident harvest, which used to be, at one time, five tags and has been reduced to one and then to none.

On the Ahiak-Beverly side, the east side, the same criteria apply, but that’s well outside the zone of any outfitters. That continues to be the reality before us here today.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

I didn’t really hear an answer to the question there. I guess I would like to ask the Minister if he will consider meeting with these

outfitters to discuss the possibility. I fully understand that there may be restrictions.

Secondly, I have to ask the Minister when we will know whether or not there are restrictions on the Bluenose-East herd. I don’t have the numbers. I think Mr. Bromley probably has the numbers of animals, total animals in the herd and number of animals harvested. I don’t have them with me, unfortunately, but I think should it be proven that the herd is sustainable with both an unrestricted Aboriginal harvest and a limited or unrestricted caribou harvest and there’s still some caribou left over, why can’t we give out those tags? Those two things: Are there restrictions on the Bluenose-East herd and, if not, when will we know, and secondly, will the Minister consider meeting with the outfitters?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

What exists today is voluntary targets for the Bluenose-East, no resident harvest, no outfitters, no commercial harvest. Just a voluntary harvest for Aboriginal subsistence hunting. So what we have started is the process, given the numbers that we do have that tell us the Bluenose-East, in our opinion, even though we weren’t able to complete the full survey, are in the hundred thousand animal range, that we’re back to being able to sustain additional harvest.

That process has to go through not just ourselves and myself as Minister making the determination, but we have to work with all the appropriate boards, the Wek’eezhii board, the Sahtu board, the Inuvialuit board. We’ve initiated that process to have that discussion. We’ll look at what’s possible.

Right now we’re looking at reinstating the resident harvest. If in fact the discussions lead us down the path that Ms. Bisaro referenced where the general determination in the minds of all the folks that are involved in this are that it could in fact be expanded, then we’ll, of course, look at those recommendations from the various boards as well. It’s very rare that a Minister will reject the recommendations of boards. It’s remote but, yes, we’re going to look for the advice of the boards based on the best information we have.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Ms. Bisaro, your time is up. We can put you back in the queue if need be. Next on my list I have Mr. Hawkins.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d like to pick up with the same subject Ms. Bisaro has raised. Specifically two areas I’d like to discuss.

In my Member’s statement and questions back in October, I talked about identifying what’s considered a number that will trigger our system to be re-engaged on an outfitter participation level. That would be question one. Recently in some discussions with some outfitters, as few as a

hundred tags could make that much of a difference and we would no longer have to subsidize their lodges. It could get them back into business. Two questions there.

Would the Minister be able to do some work on and evaluate and possibly support 100 tags per outfitter, and at the same time, when is the work coming forward that would help identify normal thresholds when we can get them back into the business of outfitting?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The work on thresholds is underway. There has been a singular success at this point with the Porcupine Caribou Management Board. The agreement they reached in the very complex political jurisdiction with the threshold I believe the Member is talking about, that triggers certain responses without any politics, it’s just based on the science and the numbers. In my opinion, that approach would serve as well across the North. We are working towards that.

Having said that, at this point the boards have been requested to review the numbers of the Bluenose-East, and the request that they consider that they look at supporting and seeing if the numbers support reinstating the resident harvest. That work is underway. We are aiming towards next fall and we’re doing it on the Ahiak-Beverly-Qamanirjuaq as well. So that process will be reviewed, and if, as I just indicated to Ms. Bisaro, the discussion and numbers are such that there is a general consensus and recommendation that we can go beyond reinstating the resident harvest but go back to unsustained Aboriginal resident harvest as well as back to commercial, we’ll seriously consider the recommendations and they’re going to be based on the same science that we all have available to us.

Finally, if I may just reach back a bit, I did not answer part of Ms. Bisaro’s question. Yes, we’d be happy to sit down with the outfitters to talk about where we are and what the world looks like on a go-forward basis here for the coming year or coming couple of years.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I appreciate the answers from the Minister. I would like to come back to the issue of 100 tags per outfitter. I would not try to characterize that I know the science or the numbers best, so I’m not going to imply that in any way, but what I would say is anecdotally at the same time I would say that the impact of that 100 tags per outfitter, I don’t see that as causing an irreparable ripple effect to the system, especially when we have the Bluenose-East growing in the manner it’s demonstrating itself in. Would that not be a position that the Department of Environment and Natural Resources could offer their expertise and knowledge to the board for their consideration and, furthermore, for the

department’s willingness to support? In essence, would the department support a 100 tag allocation per outfitter?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

These are public boards. We have our officials involved with the boards, as well as we provide, with the Wek’eezhii especially, advice and recommendations, along with the Tlicho Government, to the boards on various matters of interest before the board.

I don’t think it would be appropriate for us to sit here today and pick a number out of the air and do wildlife management, caribou management in the bounds of this Assembly. I appreciate the Member’s intent, and we are looking at what’s possible given the numbers that we do think are there, even though we could not conclude all the work that we needed to do to get a more accurate count on the Bluenose-East.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you for that. I appreciate the Minister’s response. The issue of what’s possible, is this a concept that the department could get behind and evaluate, investigate and perhaps provide some consideration for the board? I’m not going to split hairs, 90 tags, 110 tags. Let the experts help drive that answer that makes sense. Caribou tags at 100 tags per outfitter, which I think we’re only talking about five outfitters here that are probably active that could be saved. Is that something that your department could investigate and see whether they could support and perhaps provide some information to the board to allow them to make their decision?

The issue here that can’t be forgotten is that the outfitters are an un-resourced organization, so all their studies and work are done on their own. They’re just trying to save their outfitting lodges, and provide tourism opportunities and employment opportunities here in the North. As we all know, upwards of 75 percent or more of that actual caribou meat is given back to the people who need it. There are a lot of plusses in this matrix of opportunity here.

Back to the point, which is, is that something that your department could investigate and see if you could help support and provide information to the board to allow them to make their final decision?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Before we leapfrog to the outfitters, we have to first sort out the resident harvest, which right now there is none, and what type of modest reinstatement could there be. Are we back to the stage, not only in addition to the resident harvest, but are we back to the stage of unrestricted Aboriginal harvest? If those two questions get answered in the affirmative, I would suggest to the Member, then, that yes, part of the discussion would be what else is possible in terms of trying to get harvesting back to its full status that

it was prior to the various restrictions given the plummeting numbers of the various herds.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I would disagree with one area: that we may never be back to full harvesting status. I’m not sure what that would look like, nor am I in the business to understand fully what that looks like. It could look like a combination of things and that’s why I’m asking about what support the Minister can offer in looking at this perspective from the outfitter point of view of keeping their lodges open.

I’m not going to ask him, and I know he won’t answer by saying how many tags are you prepared to offer today. We have to look at science; I agree with that point. We have to reinstate Aboriginal First Nation unrestricted hunting. I support that. I certainly can’t disagree with resident hunters being looked at in succession to those things. I just see that the missed opportunity here, as the herd grows, is that the outfitters might be ignored. It’s the balance of asking from their perspective of when is the government ready to get behind them.

I appreciate how the Minister is trying to line them up as Lego pieces and saying, well, we don’t get to the third or fourth one until we get through this first and second one, but we have to look at this as a bigger project and bigger support, because too much delay without a real incentive in the sense that something is going happen, we’ll in essence lose this industry and perhaps maybe forever, because nobody’s going to want to come back in the outfitting industry after the type of crash we’ve had.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We are intending to go back this spring to see if we can harden up the estimates of the Bluenose-East. At this point we have to work with the processes that are there. We have to err on the side of not overdoing the harvest.

The folks, the various boards and ourselves will look at all of the information that we currently have. In fact, we are going back in the spring to try and harden up those numbers. Collectively, we’ll work with the various boards to come up with their best recommendations and we’ll look at that. We can’t just manufacture herd numbers. They are what the science tells us, the counts tell us. If that changes in the spring and it’s a much bigger number, then clearly we’ll have more latitude. Right now we have some harvest restrictions all the way up and down the ladder. There’s voluntary harvest for Aboriginal subsistence harvest, no resident harvest, no commercial harvests or outfitters.

We would be as happy as everybody else would be in the North if the numbers of the herds rebounded to the point where there was absolutely no need to worry about looking to the future, other than managing ourselves so that we avoid similar circumstances that we are now in. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Hawkins, your time is up. We are moving on with questions. I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to start with the Bathurst herd of caribou. As we all know, they have essentially been closed for just about three years. With the residential harvest being well below a few hundred for several years before that, I know many harvesters that quit hunting three or four years before the closure, as did I. Yet there’s been essentially no recovery and certainly not in the reproductive potential of this herd where there’s been no change in the number of females. I’m wondering if the Minister knows why and what additional measures are being taken this year to address this very serious and delicate situation of the severely depleted herd and one that happens to serve some of our major population centres.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll make some general comments and then I’ll ask the deputy, who is much more knowledgeable about this than I am. We had a herd that was in a precipitous decline, that if we had not have stepped in, in my humble opinion as Minister, would now have ceased to exist if we had just let hunting proceed. It’s been under significant trauma. I agree with the Member that there’s only been stabilized with a marginal increase probably within the margin of error that they have for these kind of counts.

Mr. Chairman, with your indulgence, I’ll ask the deputy to speak further to what some of the possible reasons or why the number of females, the cow/calf recruitment hasn’t really rebounded.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Since the herds were declining circumpolar, they seem to line up with these long-term highs and lows. It’s been a struggle for everybody to pinpoint what exactly it is. So we continue to do work in areas such as predators, we continue to look at options on how to increase harvesting to predators such as wolves. We continue to do some work in that area, as well, on trying to determine what is being harvested by those animals, with some extra work and putting collars on them.

We continue to do the den site survey work with predators. I know we’re doing work with mines and others on grizzly bears. We’ve done some work, and I understand we continue to do work, on insects for an example, and, of course, climate change with weather, we continue to look at that as well.

Of course, we’re working with our partners, the traditional knowledge side of things as well. We continue to do some work there as well. But as far as pinpointing exactly what we think causes these long-term fluctuations, again, it’s been a struggle for everybody.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chair, there are some great mysteries out there and there doesn’t seem to be anything else we can do. I am aware that we are permitting some harvest on this herd, despite this situation and failure to recover after three years of closure. I even have heard that those tags we do permit are not able to be fulfilled because of the small population and difficulty in finding these caribou. It’s, indeed, a grave situation. I know there’s certainly cultural loss happening amongst many cultures, perhaps all cultures of the Northwest Territories, as a result of this situation.

I agree with the Minister; they had to step in. I am just very disappointed that they didn’t step in much before this. It certainly wasn’t news to anybody. There was a trend over many, many surveys, as the Minister well knows, and the destruction that was going on along the winter road was obvious to many people. Yet we are allowing some harvests to continue because we are taking a responsible approach and we recognize a need out there.

However, let me contrast that with the Bluenose-East where, for three years now, we are in the third year now, where this population has been at, according to our survey information, near record numbers. Our policy, as I understand it, is there’s a 4 percent harvestable surplus of a herd especially once it reaches those kinds of numbers. That is 4,000 animals. We decided to permit, as a government, 2,400 with open harvest by Aboriginal people, as is correct given their special rights. Those people have been taking under 1,900 caribou. For years now, others who have been completely closed, no recognition that they have an interest either, completely closed out from this harvestable surplus.

I appreciate the Minister is finally going to move on this and encourage the board to look at it, but I just don’t get the sense that there is anybody speaking up for those without Aboriginal rights here. I’m wondering – the Minister wants the new numbers – are we going to set the standard before we get the new numbers or are we going to change it after we get the numbers. People are becoming suspect. I hope the Minister will consider those sorts of things.

I completely agree that conservation is first and foremost and I agree with order. We need to provide for Aboriginal rights. We need to provide for resident hunters. We need to provide for the sport harvest for outfitters. But here we have 4,000 surplus animals, according to government policy,

and at least 2,100 of those are not being taken advantage of, or any portion thereof. Again, I think resident harvesters are talking pretty modest numbers to make people happy. We are talking opportunity, not necessarily animals.

Our outfitters, I understand that there are two of them that are in the area that biologists have told them they are taking Bluenose-East caribou primarily, perhaps almost exclusively. Those are the outfitters that I think we are completely concerned about in this case, because the Bathurst simply cannot take any more harvest. We know that. Whereas the Bluenose has sat there unharvested, despite demonstrable surplus. That is where we’d like the Minister to not just pose a question to the board but encourage the board to consider opportunity.

These outfitters, again, are faced with the substantial costs of maintenance, basic maintenance, insurance and so on. They’re getting to the point where they’ll have to walk away from it because of bankruptcy. And we know that because the government waited until the very last moment to cancel tags, they were left with a whole year’s resupply. So there’s a lot of fuel, for example, sitting out in these sites deteriorating over time and these outfitters have no resources to clean that fuel up. So there are environmental cleanup aspects as well.

I’m sure the Minister is aware of these sorts of things. He says he needs to take some careful steps. I just wonder if there’s a double standard here. I’m all for careful steps, but I think we should have careful steps for everybody, and when we have a herd that’s up at 100,000 with a surplus of 4,000 according to our policy, and we’re harvesting under 1,900 of those with an open harvest for some of the people, there are some opportunities that I think we’re being irresponsible with.

So I’d appreciate some comments and assurances from the Minister on what we’re going to do to correct this situation, and I do agree with the suggestion to make these automatic, ideally before we go out and survey herds and can change our stance. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We, the government, myself as Minister, my obligation is to all Northerners, recognizing our unique circumstances, structures and processes, which is why we have initiated the process to go to the boards to ask and suggest that there is now enough numbers that we know, and that there’s a need to reconsider and relook at the other restricted harvests, the resident harvests as a first step. I’ve indicated if the discussions are such that it leads to not only the resident harvest, but the suggestion that we can sustain at least for the outfitters in that

area, that we’d return to that outfitters’ harvest and that recommendation comes back, we will absolutely look at that with great interest. As I’ve indicated to a previous answer, it’s very seldom in my history that I can recollect ever turning down recommendations from the boards that provide very well-thought-out, good advice.

So we do have a standard. We have a standard we’re trying to apply fairly and we will look at this. We’re pushing it so that we can have a decision made by the upcoming hunting season, the fall of 2013, and we’re not going to change the numbers. We’re basing it on the numbers we now know, which will give us a good starting point. We don’t want to sit and wait here until the spring because the weather doesn’t permit. We will have lost a number of months here that we need to actually do the work with the various boards. So we’re going to do that and the Member and I agree, and I’ve said this ever since I became involved with the Porcupine Caribou Board, the need for that same type of approach, I think, is critical in all these areas, especially where you have areas where there’s overlapping jurisdiction with boards. It would make life simpler and much clearer and cleaner for everybody in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Bromley, your time is up. If you’d like to go back on… Thank you. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for the Minister’s comments. I hope that the boards are aware of the science that’s available on what is harvestable for the caribou in a conservative way, and that their decisions are based on that best information and, in fact, that they can be encouraged to make timely decisions when the evidence is clear.

I would like to ask a question with regard to the Wildlife Act. I know we’re still working at it and I’m hoping that it gets tabled soon. I do appreciate the Minister’s support. I believe he formed a committee he’s calling SWAAG, I believe it’s the Stakeholders Working Group. I’m not sure what the SWAAG stands for, but I believe they did get support to draft a report. They submitted that report some time ago. My understanding is that they still have not got a response. My further understanding is that they were assured that they would have the opportunity for an iterative back and forth approach as all other stakeholders have had an opportunity to get a response from the government and respond again to that response. So if the tabling of this act is imminent, obviously the opportunity is going to be very, very modest to non-existent here, and I guess my question is: Will the Minister assure that there is a good healthy opportunity for this group to finish their input to the Wildlife Act before its tabled in the House for our consideration? I am looking forward to that tabling. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The acronym SWAAG stands for Stakeholders Wildlife Act Advisory Group, there’s a double A in there that tends to throw people off.

They did provide a report and we’ve been looking at that work along with all the last-minute work that the working group has been taking care of. I just signed, this very day, the letter, the response to the report with, as well, a copy or a confidential draft copy of all the work that’s been done in terms of rewriting the legislation and I will be meeting next week with the board, sorry, with the advisory group, to talk about and go over the work that they did, the response that we’ve provided and the act as it has now been crafted. So that work, we’re just trying to conclude that. The intent is to bring it into the House for first and second reading, the Wildlife Act, early in March to give us a chance to conclude these final important meetings. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That’s good that we’re finally getting a response back to this working group. Now, my experience is that there’s generally a 10-day mailing period if it’s mailed by the government when they say it’s mailed in Yellowknife to a group in Yellowknife, is that the sort of timeframe we’re looking at here?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

The intent is to use the fastest means we have available, electronically probably, to get the information disseminated. Like I indicated, we’re sending out the work today with a plan to sit down I think mid-week or so next week to have a meeting with the SWAAG folks. So those are the timelines, keeping our eye on the calendar where we want to introduce this for first and second reading early in March so we can get it into the legislative process for committee before this session is concluded. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for that comment. I hope the Minister does use the fastest way to get that information out there. These days it’s possible.

My last question has to do with bison, Mr. Chair. I know we’ve gone through, again, some serious kafuffles with the bison herd, the Mackenzie Bison herd. I know at one point we had opened harvest up to those with Aboriginal and treaty rights to shoot cows and calves and whatever they wanted along the road and so on, or even off the road, shortly before we had the anthrax issue and now we’ve got a decimated herd. I don’t believe there were any extraordinary harvest opportunities given to those without these sorts of rights. Of course, this is a new species of wildlife in much of the range that’s never been there before within our living memory and so on. Is that the sort of approach we can expect with these sorts of harvesting opportunities? I know I am responding to a lot of

concern I’m hearing from constituents. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

With the anthrax outbreak, as the Member said, it came pretty close to decimating the herd. I mean, we cut it down significantly, as much as 40 percent. We didn’t find all the animals that were killed by anthrax, so there’s a total no harvesting ban. We are going to do a survey in March to see what the herd numbers tell us. These are a threatened species. This is a management area, so we have to look at keeping somewhere in the neighbourhood of about 1,000 animals, what’s considered acceptable for mammals like that as a healthy herd. We allowed tags, once we knew they were at that level or exceeded that.

Once again, as we go forward, they’ve had draws before in Providence and I would anticipate, once again, everything will depend on the herd health and what’s possible. Same criteria apply as it does for caribou for subsistence harvesting. So we’ll see what that work tells us in terms of the count. Then we’ll be able to have that discussion about what’s possible. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I am all for being careful, very careful, when our herds decline like that. Perhaps the Minister can consider all people of the Northwest Territories who he does represent as the herd recovers – hopefully they will recover with our careful management – and consider increasing the opportunity for all people of the Northwest Territories that might be interested in harvesting bison. Not that there’s a lot of them but, as the Minister knows, the cost of living is high. We want people to be on the land, and tied to the land and recognizing value of the land, so they will fight for it when they need to and look after it. So I appreciate his commitment to fulfilling that representation for all people when making harvest decisions. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I want to assure the Member again that I am very aware that I am a Minister for the territorial government representing all Northerners and we are charged with representing everybody. In this case, we have been working to do that, recognizing the circumstances.

I’d point out, in the South Slave, for example, we are taking the steps to reinstitute the bison harvest for non-Aboriginal people and we have other species where there are still tags available for moose and such. So when conservation issues come to bear and become a priority, we take the decisions necessary, hard as though they may be at times. I’ve been called a number of things, from what I can recollect over the last number of years. I’ve been called a conservative, racist, bigot. I’ve been called any number of things, but in this job you have to do the right thing. I’m very committed to

representing all Northerners. I was Health Minister for five and a half years and I can assure you we have some of the best systems in place for all Northerners. I take this job very, very seriously, as I do the requirement, my obligation, my fundamental, absolute obligation of representing everybody fairly. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Committee, we are on page 13-25, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, wildlife, operations expenditure summary, $15.286 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-26, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, wildlife, grants and contributions, contributions, $973,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-27, Environment and Natural Resources, information item, wildlife, active positions. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Seeing none, page 13-28 and 13-29, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, land and water, operations expenditure summary, $5.752 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. A couple of questions here. The first has to do with municipal wastewater and federal regulations which seem to be downloaded, so to speak, to municipalities. I’m not sure; I presume, since this is water, I can discuss this here. My concern has to do with the need for communities to adhere to regulations or whatever has been imposed upon them by the federal government. I’d like to know from the Minister whether or not there is an agreement between the NWT and the federal government to require all NWT municipalities to adhere to the new and updated regulations regarding municipal wastewater. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The regulations are, in fact, guidelines that the Member is referring to. There has been a lot of discussion around the FPT table with Environment Ministers. They are looking, especially in the North, at some of the challenges that those guidelines could have. The federal government has told us clearly that they’re working on the guidelines, but don’t expect any more money than you already have through the various funding sources that are already there. There is a huge concern by all jurisdictions that there could be

significant costs attached to whatever is agreed to. So it’s being looked at very carefully. At the same time, people are working towards it and we want to make sure we can reassure people, and people know that they have proper drinking water, and we do the right things when it comes to treating water and releasing it back into the environment. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that response and for correcting me. Thank you. I recognize they are guidelines, but they seem to be… The impression I get is, yes, they are guidelines, but you’d better adhere to them. I’m glad to hear that this is a concern across the country. I think particularly for some of our smaller communities and some of our more northern communities, it’s going to be a lot harder for them to adhere to these guidelines.

Does the government have any policy in terms of assisting communities to improve their systems or wastewater systems to match the guidelines the government is putting forward? I heard the Minister say there’s no money from the federal government, but do we as a territorial government maybe recognize that municipalities can’t handle these things on their own, and do we have any policy to financially assist municipalities trying to upgrade their wastewater systems? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

That would be a question best posed in due course to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. We have assistance to communities for water and waste treatment. We have subsidy programs. At the same time, we also do have standards. They aren’t just all guidelines. We have Health departments involved. We have concern as a government. We want to be involved basically from the headwaters, which is why we’re negotiating transboundary water agreements to the tap so when people turn on the tap, they can do so in comfort and confidence that the water meets the best Canadian standards. So that assistance is available to communities, but I don’t have that information available here in this budget that’s before us.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that. My other question has to do with our Protected Areas Strategy. It’s been moving along. We’ve been adding sites and approving sites over time. I wondered if the Minister could indicate, first of all, the number of protected area sites. I guess I want to know between 2010-2011 and 2011-2012. Have we approved, has there been a trend, a downward trend or an upward trend, I guess is what I’m trying to say, in the number of protected areas and number of sites that we’ve added to our strategy?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

The Protected Areas Strategy is one that’s under review with both ourselves and the federal government. There are currently six candidate areas that we’re looking at

that have reached, I think it’s about step five or so of an eight step process, consolidating all of the information. As we move towards devolution, the issue of how do we manage this is becoming more critical.

We’re pulling together all of the work and reports and recommendations. There are national wildlife areas that are being proposed. In some cases we have a major area, Edehzhie in the Deh Cho that has been under discussion now for some time. We are, we believe, very, very close, if not in agreement with all parties on that particular site. There are five other ones that are under discussion and review. We’re working with the federal government, who has some money in their base, to deal with those particular areas. What’s the best way to proceed which gets us, if I may, back up to a higher level here?

One of the things in the Deh Cho, for example, that we want to look and focus on, is coming to grips with the land use plan. The land use plan will set the plan for the region and will help inform what the best way to proceed with those various sites that have now been nominated. We need that plan so that we’re clear that we’re not just doing protected areas strategies and over here we’re going to have some development, we think we’re going to have a park over here. We have to get our thinking clear.

Then if I can back up one more step, the Land Use and Sustainability Framework that we’re doing as a government is providing us with a frame to be able to approach with clear thinking, and clear policies and guidelines on how we approach the table for land use planning. It also captures the economic strategy that Mr. Ramsay is talking about, the Mineral Resource Strategy that he’s talking about. Even the Water Strategy fits under that broad Land Use Sustainability Framework.

The protected area is one piece and we’re going to get to that and deal with it in due course. We have to get some of these other pieces sorted out and clarified so that we make the best informed decision possible.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that comprehensive answer. I didn’t really hear whether or not the number of our protected areas sites has gone up or down over the last little while. I gather that if there’s a review happening, we’re not adding any more protected areas sites. Is that correct?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, at this point we’re consolidating and examining what the best tools are, and we’re also very interested in using northern tools in addition to strictly relying on the federal government who will soon be vacating the field anyways through devolution.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m done.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Moving on with questions I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just some quick follow-ups there. I know the Protected Areas Strategy is going through a number of five-year plans. I think the average to actually get a nominated area protected, should it be protected eventually, is in the area of 12 to 15 years. What is the general status of the Protected Areas Strategy? Where are we at? Perhaps that’s a question being asked in the reviews that are going on, but perhaps I could just pose it as what have we achieved of what we set out to achieve, and when can we expect to see the results of the reviews, and what input will committee have on those reviews?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. At this juncture, as I laid out for Ms. Bisaro, we’re consolidating and trying to make sure we have all these other broad planning pieces in place before we proceed any farther or faster with existing wildlife areas that have been nominated and definitely not adding any others at this point. I will ask the deputy minister if he could give some of the background information of the sites and any sort of catalogue of the work that’s been done over the years.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Most of the protected areas sites are in the Deh Cho right now. There’s half a dozen there at various stages. There are a few very close to the end of the eight-step process. There are, of course, a couple of areas in the Sahtu and, as well, there’s a site that overlaps the Deh Cho and the South Slave, as well, around the Buffalo Lakes area.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that information. The regional land use programs are referred to on the narrative side of this and integrate environmental, social, cultural and economic interests. Obviously this would be important for our economic development and mineral development strategies and so on. What regional land use plans that do this integration do we have in place?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Gwich’in Land Use Plan is complete. The Sahtu Land Use Plan is down to, I think, some final issues that are going to get resolved. I think that’s going to be concluded in the coming few months. The Deh Cho Land Use Plan,

of course, is a subject that we have been talking in the Deh Cho about and we are interested in seeing if we could come to a conclusion on that as well, keeping in mind that there are politics that have happened there with Edehzhie and the K’atlodeeche folks pulling out of the process. In the South and North Slave we have no land use planning underway that I’m aware of in any substantive nature.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I guess there’s the obvious concern that this government is pushing very hard on development of resource extraction and we’re doing this in the absence of these land use plans. Obviously we need to take a cautious approach in the absence of these plans. How is the weight being given to that cautious approach, just as in managing wildlife?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I point out, as well, that I looked over one. The Tlicho as well have concluded, I understand, their land use plan.

One of our priorities in this Assembly that has been handed down from Assembly to Assembly for 17 Assemblies now is the whole issue of the sustainability, the balance between economic development and the environment, the land, the water, the animals. We still have that as a fundamental principle that guides us. We’re spending an enormous amount of time and money and effort not only to look and see if we can support economic development, but we’re doing many, many things on the environmental side with alternative energies, with the work on water, with the work on wildlife, to make sure that both those areas get the attention they deserve.

In this forum here, the debate is always there, trying to make sure we have that balance and can demonstrate that. That is our ongoing commitment.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Just generally looking at this division, what proportion of our budget is going to land use plans, water and environmental assessment?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We have $4.699 million for land and water and $1.053 million for environmental assessment and monitoring.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

What of those dollars are going to land use planning?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I don’t have that specific level of detail, but we are active, we have a full contingent at the Sahtu Land Use Planning Process, full contingent with the Deh Cho as we get back to that one, and we are fully engaged with our own staff, as well, concluding the land use and sustainability framework. We have a significant amount of time and our people and resources tied up, as well, on the water side, which is tied into land use planning, as well, I would submit.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for those comments from the Minister. On the environmental assessment monitoring side where we do screenings and then the higher level environmental assessments and environmental impact reviews, these are real opportunities to put conditions on projects. What sort of conditions are we pursuing in the order of greenhouse gas emissions to work towards the obvious need to reduce net greenhouse gas emissions in the Northwest Territories?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

One of the biggest generators of greenhouse gases, of course, is the generation of energy. I would suggest to you as we come forward in the coming weeks with our plan for the hydro development transmission line and grid hookups so we could have available for resource development reasonably priced locally generated energy that will probably be one of the single biggest deterrents to the increase of greenhouse gases. We look and we don’t have to tell the resource operators like the mines, for example, which put in millions of dollars into wind energy how to cut their greenhouse gases because it’s money for them if they do. We want to encourage them to follow along the steps that Diavik did. Of course, conservation is one area where there’s huge opportunity to save money, because right now you can’t get away from using diesel.

We’re taking a very broad, comprehensive approach to this and we want to have the discussion not just on a project-by-project basis, but what we’re going to do as a government to make sure we provide those necessary critical services, and one of the most critical ones is reasonable energy that is as green as possible.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for the Minister’s comments there. I don’t think they’re very accurate, obviously. I guess I would like to ask the Minister, what has been the greenhouse gas reductions net reductions in these industry emissions in the Northwest Territories for whatever time frame he cares to talk about. I’m very happy to see Diavik taking a leadership role on their own, and I think they’re talking about 4 to 6 percent of their energy being from wind compared to zero from renewable energy. That’s significant. The opportunity, as the Minister said, is there in a way that saves money. It’s not being taken up. Just like people have difficulties with those front-end costs even though it’s clear that they save money doing it, as well as generate jobs, et cetera. I would be happy to have the Minister correct me and say, yes, this lackadaisical approach – do what you want to do out here with greenhouse gas emissions – has shown reductions. I’ve seen no evidence of it.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

The Greenhouse Gas Strategy is a broad framework strategy and I’d point out that we have invested

millions in developing biomass first, the market, and now the industry. We are breaking good new ground on how we do solar. We’re looking at some major, major hydro initiatives with transmission, generation over the next five to 10 years that we want to finalize and come out with.

If you put all of those together, those are part of the Greenhouse Gas Strategy. The Greenhouse Gas Strategy is not sitting out there separate by itself. We’ve done all of these subsidiary strategies that allow us to meet the targets in that Greenhouse Gas Strategy. Plus we have industry on our own volition because it makes good economic sense, making significant advancements, for example, in wind.

So I think we’re anything but lackadaisical. I know we live in a cold climate, we do have a strong reliance on fossil fuels, but as a territory we’re taking very significant steps to reduce our reliance on that both for ourselves and the mid and longer term for industry. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Bromley, your time has expired. I have no one else on the list. Would you like to have any questions now? Thank you. Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, land and water, operations expenditure summary, $5.752 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-30, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, land and water, grants and contributions, contributions, $550,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-31, Environment and Natural Resources, information item, land and water, active positions. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Page 13-32, Environment and Natural Resources, information item, lease commitments - infrastructure. Are there any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Seeing none, 13-33, Environment and Natural Resources, information item, Environment Fund. Any questions? Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I just have one question here with regard to the surplus under the Environment Fund. It’s down quite a bit from the revised estimates figure for 2012-13, but it’s equal to pretty much the mains from ‘12-13, but it’s down quite a bit from the actuals in ‘11-12. I wondered if I can get an explanation on that as to the why. My

other question has to do with what do we do with this money? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that answer we’ll go to Ms. Magrum.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The main estimates are calculated on a three-year average of actuals. We tend to be conservative in our estimates. We are optimistic that that number will be higher, but that is how that $246,000 is calculated. The surplus is available each year to have a total accumulated surplus of the fund and the intent of that fund is to be used towards the development of other projects, other programs within the Environment Fund program.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks for the explanation, Ms. Magrum. So am I right in seeing, then, that there’s $2.3 million or so? As a closing balance that would be what the surplus is I think. What sorts of things do we use this for? That’s a fair bit of money. I understand we use it for something, but could I get a couple of examples of what we use it for? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Mr. Chair, of that $2.3 million projected closing balance, there is an equipment reserve which is reserved for replacement of equipment. Those are called restricted funds. We had an unrestricted surplus at the end of the last fiscal year of $1.3 million. That money is available to be used for other initiatives such as e-waste or other strategic initiatives that the department decides. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Chair, just one last question here. The Minister talked about moving on to e-waste I think in this next fiscal year. Of this $1.3 million that we have to play with, so to speak, is it currently specifically intended for e-waste or have we not yet decided what we’re going to do with this $1.3 million? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The next major initiative that we spent some time getting ready to address is the e-waste one. As we sort out the arrangements with Alberta, and the costs and they’re going to accrue both for gathering the e-waste in the North and shipping it and doing the things we need to do, that money will come into play there as our next priority. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Committee, we’re on 13-33. Minister Miltenberger, go ahead.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I should also just reiterate that we also committed in this House, I think last week, to take a look at the milk cartons as well. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Committee, we’re on 13-33, Environment and Natural Resources, information item, Environment Fund. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-34, Environment and Natural Resources, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Any questions? Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I really just have one general comment for this sort of activity. It is about six or eight pages long. I did a little survey and found that the majority of projects we’ve listed with the federal government are ending or dropping significantly in funding. There are zero new programs planned. Seven of them are being maintained. There are about 16 or 18 of these. One is actually increasing in funding, but zero new programs and it just seems like, looking at the numbers, we typically do add programs. I’m wondering, will we be entering into new agreements later in the fiscal year. Is that what’s happening here? What’s happening that we’re not generating new partnership agreements for work performed on behalf of others that are typically on areas that concern our residents and our resources? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. For that we’ll go to Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s very difficult to plan for this type of work within the fiscal year. Often we don’t know, with almost no notice. When you compound that with the fact that the federal government is under significant strain as it meets its deficit reduction targets and such, things become even more uncertain. So I can’t say with any certainty what may be coming or what may drop off the list at the end of this fiscal year. That information hasn’t been shared with us yet. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chair, that’s all I had.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Page 13-34, Environment and Natural Resources, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Seeing none, 13-35, Environment and Natural Resources, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

We’re going to group these questions here. Pages 13-36, 37, 38 and 39, Environment and Natural Resources, information item, work performed on behalf of others.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. I would like to turn your attention back to 13-7, Environment and Natural Resources. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that this committee defer further consideration of the department summary for the Department of Environment and Natural Resources’ main estimates, 2013-2014, on page 13-7 at this time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The motion is being distributed. I’ll just let everyone have a chance to take a look at it.

Committee, motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

No comment.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Question is being called.

We seem to have a tie, and in the spirit of prolonging debate and continuance, the Chair will be voting in favour of the motion. The motion is carried.

---Carried

This will conclude our consideration of the Department of Environment and Natural Resources here today. I would like to thank Mr. Campbell and Ms. Magrum today. If I could get the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses out of the Chamber. Thank you.

Continuing on with committee’s wishes, we are going to be moving to Industry, Tourism and Investment. Minister Ramsay, do you have any opening comments?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I do, Mr. Chairman, thank you. I am pleased to present the 2013-14 main estimates for the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

The department’s main estimates propose total operational expenses of approximately $50 million for the coming fiscal year, which is an increase of 1 percent over 2012-13. This includes sunsets of nearly $2.5 million, specific initiatives of $1.2 million and forced growth of $1.9 million.

The mandate of ITI is to promote economic self-sufficiency through responsible development of the Northwest Territories natural resources and the promotion of tourism, trade, investment, business and manufacturing to create a prosperous, diverse and sustainable economy for the benefit of all residents. Through this mandate, we continue to

support the commitment of our government that all residents of the Northwest Territories must have the opportunity to build a stronger future for themselves, their families and their communities.

In 2013-14 the department will support this government’s priority to strengthen and diversify our economy by proposing investments in a number of programs and projects.

Several of this department’s key initiatives centre around energy and energy projects aimed at reducing energy costs and greenhouse gas emissions, in support of the 17th Legislative

Assembly’s stated commitment in making strategic infrastructure investments and hydro initiatives.

Industry, Tourism and Investment works in partnership with the departments of Environment and Natural Resources, Public Works and Services, Transportation and Finance on energy initiatives. The Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment is proposing several specific energy initiatives for the 2013-14 fiscal year. These include:

• $100,000 for finding a solution to the natural

gas shortage in Inuvik, which is a priority for our government. The funding will be used to examine the possibility of liquid natural gas for Inuvik, which has been identified as the most promising solution to Inuvik’s energy situation.

• $250,000 in funding to complete the regulatory

application for the Whati T-line, the proposed transmission line to connect Whati to the Snare hydro system. Reducing our reliance on imported diesel continues to be a key priority for our government.

• $50,000 is proposed for the Water Monitoring

Program in Kakisa. This will allow NT Energy to further study the hydro potential of the Kakisa River, and explore possible opportunities for hydro development that could benefit the community and displace diesel-fired electricity.

The department will continue to support NT Energy in its efforts to continue to contribute to the implementation of GNWT energy planning initiatives. These include the renewal of the Energy Plan, Greenhouse Gas Strategy, the Biomass Strategy and the Solar Strategy. Funding will allow NT Energy to begin the consultation and implementation phases of power system planning, to continue managing energy projects and initiatives that examine and deliver energy solutions aligned with the goals and objectives of the GNWT.

The department is also proposing funding for the upcoming fiscal year in some key areas to support of the priorities of the 17th Assembly.

In support of the GNWT priority of increasing employment opportunities through

decentralization efforts, Industry, Tourism and Investment is proposing to invest $94,000 to relocate its Business Incentive Policy monitoring office from its current Yellowknife location to Hay River. This is in direct response to the 17th Legislative Assembly asking departments to review activities and positions with a view to decentralizing activities and/or positions.

To grow the tourism industry throughout the territory, we are proposing to increase the marketing budget of Northwest Territories Tourism by $600,000 this fiscal year and another $600,000 next fiscal year, for a total ongoing increase in NWT Tourism’s marketing budget of $1.2 million annually. NWT Tourism has historically been underfunded relative to other jurisdictions and is losing market share to other destinations. Increased funding will allow NWT Tourism to take advantage of new marketing opportunities reflected in the 2013-14 NWT Tourism Marketing Plan, and focus on opportunities that would promote development in regions that are experiencing declining tourism activity.

This funding is in addition to $1.2 million in direct support to tourism businesses through contributions to build and diversify tourism products, through our Tourism Product Diversification and Marketing Program and the Sport Hunt Outfitter Marketing Support Program. Moving forward, ITI will continue to work with NWT Tourism, and our tourism operators and outfitters to explore ways to grow this important sector of the economy.

We are seeing increased park usage in all regions of the Northwest Territories, but particularly in the North Slave region. During the three-year period between 2008-2011, the North Slave region has seen a rise of over 30 percent of overnight camping use. Ensuring a safe, enjoyable experience for our parks visitors is our top priority. Industry, Tourism and Investment is proposing $110,000 for increased parks enforcement due to increased use, and $30,000 to upgrade the parks communications system in the North Slave region to be compatible with the communications system used by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Tourism offers some of the best opportunities for growth across the NWT, particularly in our smaller communities. Investing in events such as the highly successful NWT Days in Ottawa just this month, as well as Canada’s Northern House at the Vancouver Olympics, allows us to raise the profile of our territory and showcase not only the tourism potential but also the great opportunities that exist in all 33 of our communities.

Industry, Tourism and Investment is also proposing an investment of $14,000 for increased lease charges at our Dempster-Delta Visitor Centre in Dawson City, Yukon. The Dempster Highway is the gateway to the Western Arctic, and this award-

winning centre has staff on hand to provide travel assistance and advice. Continuing to have a presence in the Yukon, at a relatively small investment, is important to encourage travel to that region of the NWT.

In addition, a forced-growth investment of $30,000 is proposed to meet our legal obligations stemming from the Prairie Creek Socio-economic Agreement, which comes into effect in 2013-14. In addition, $40,000 is being proposed to conduct annual on-site employee surveys as provided for under our four current socio-economic agreements. These surveys assess the social, cultural and economic environments as perceived by the workforce of each mine.

In addition to the activities outlined above, there are also some potential large-scale, significant developments in the resource sector that could result in major investments in the Northwest Territories. During this past year, we have seen intense interest in the oil and gas reserves of the Sahtu region. Three companies have confirmed projects in the Sahtu this season, including work on six wells, the construction of transportation infrastructure, the development of quarry sites, and ongoing scientific data gathering on water and wildlife. Upwards of $100 million is expected to be invested and will result in 350 jobs and significant economic spinoffs for local regional economies.

GNWT departments have been working together to find ways to encourage development and minimize impacts associated with the current and planned petroleum exploration activities in the Sahtu region.

ITI led a Sahtu Exploration Readiness Workshop last November in the Sahtu region with Sahtu business leaders, the local Chamber of Commerce, industry representatives and local residents, to discuss ways to ensure the development was mutually beneficial. The meeting was a success and there is potential to make this an annual event. As a result of last year’s initiative, industry is contacting us to expand the scope of the engagement. For its part, Industry, Tourism and Investment is proposing to establish a business development administrator in the community of Norman Wells at a cost of $122,000 annually. Having a dedicated position is key to assisting and developing local businesses in the region to access opportunities arising from this increased activity.

The oil and gas and mining sectors are the cornerstone of the Northwest Territories economy. Our territory has an abundance of untapped resources, ranking sixth out of 72 jurisdictions on the mineral potential index in the 2011-2012 Fraser Institute surveys, and we are just starting to realize the potential for mineral exploration in our territory.

To further explore this potential, we are also undertaking a Mineral Development Strategy, which will help to ensure there is a sustainable mining

future for the Northwest Territories and that it continues to be developed in an environmentally sustainable way. This is being developed in concert with a sustainable Economic Opportunities Strategy, which will identify new opportunities for investment and growth across the territory.

We will have an opportunity to showcase our resource and energy potential this August at the Federal/Provincial/Territorial Energy and Mines Ministers Conference. It is the Northwest Territories’ turn to host the conference and the department is proposing an investment of $227,000 to showcase the NWT and its potential to the rest of Canada. The NWT has major energy potential in areas such as hydro, wind and solar power. In addition, developing mineral exploration projects and providing support for projects that span a wider scope such as lead, zinc, silver, gold, nickel and other rare earth elements has the potential to grow and diversify the Northwest Territories economy. The GNWT is expecting to recoup approximately 90 percent of this funding through delegate conference fees and sponsorships.

Although I have outlined some new and ongoing initiatives this department is proposing, it must also be said that we will continue to support our existing programs to grow and diversify our economy. Demand for our traditional economy and small business programs continues to grow and programs are often oversubscribed.

Funding for the Support to Entrepreneurs and Economic Development Policy will continue with dedicated funding for arts and fine crafts, the film industry and the Prospectors Grubstake Program. ITI is also proposing to continue our investment of over $1 million to the Community Harvesters Assistance Program, $550,000 in promotion and support of commercial harvesting, processing and marketing of fish and meat, and $610,000 under the Genuine Mackenzie Valley Fur Program. NWT furs continue to be in high demand at auction, and there is potential for even higher sales of NWT furs as worldwide demand for our prime wild fur continues to grow. The marketing of wild fur provides great opportunities for residents particularly in our smaller communities to gain economic benefits for their families and communities.

We are also looking to continue investments in Take a Kid Trapping, Take a Kid Harvesting Program, which, with our partners, invested almost $420,000 in 52 projects throughout the NWT.

The initiatives I have touched on are just some examples of how Industry, Tourism and Investment is working on behalf of this Assembly and this government to fulfill its mission, and have a diversified economy that provides all regions and

communities with choices and opportunities as envisioned by the 17th Legislative Assembly.

I look forward to the committee’s comments and questions. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Ramsay, for those opening comments. Do you have any witnesses that you would like to bring into the Chamber today?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I do, thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Does committee agree?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. If I could get the Sergeant-at-Arms to bring in our guests.

Thank you. Minister Ramsay, if you could introduce your witnesses to the House, please.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have with me to my left, Mr. Peter Vician, deputy minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment. To my right is Ms. Nancy Magrum, director of shared services, finance and administration, Industry, Tourism and Investment and Environment and Natural Resources.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Vician, Ms. Magrum, welcome back to the House. We’re going to move on to general comments from committee and then we’ll allow the Minister to have a closing comment at the end. General comments. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ve just got a number of things that I want to mention in no particular order. I don’t think it will be any surprise to the Minister to hear me talk about the cost of electricity and what we are doing about it or not doing about it. I am particularly concerned about our subsidy program. It’s a great subsidy, it’s keeping my bills down and I’m happy for that. But I am extremely concerned about what happens when we get to the end of our subsidy for the increased power rates that we’re now experiencing. What are the next steps, is where my head is going. What plan do we have as a government to get us off subsidies? I haven’t yet heard from the government, whether it’s from ITI or whether it’s from the Ministerial Energy Coordinating Committee. I haven’t heard a plan that will make me feel comfortable that we’re not going to be providing millions and millions of dollars in subsidies until time immemorial. So that’s a real concern for me and I think it’s something that in the next couple of years we as a government need to develop a plan and have a long-range and concrete idea about what we’re going to do to deal with the amount of money we put into subsidies.

With regard to tourism, and the Minister mentioned it in his opening comments and it was in the Minister of Finance’s budget address, as well, I’m

extremely pleased to hear that there is going to be an increase to the marketing budget for NWT Tourism. I think it’s overdue. Tourism is a really large part of economic activity in the NWT, and NWT Tourism has been saying for a couple of years now that they want to expand tourism in the NWT but they need to do marketing and they need the money to do adequate marketing. So I’m really pleased to see that we will get an increase to their marketing budget this year and then again in the next budget year. I think that’s going to bode them really well. I think it will also have a big impact on many of our communities outside of the regional centres who may be able to take advantage of the marketing that’s done and develop some businesses.

A minor item, but it does have an impact, and it has to do with parks and the closing date for our parks. My understanding is that we select a date, I think it’s September 15th , and that is the hard and fast

date when we close our parks in the fall. If September 15th falls on a Thursday or a Friday and

the weather is halfway decent, or even if it’s not decent, we still would have people who would want to go out and use the parks after that date. I think it would be of value for the department to consider a flexible date for closing depending on where the 15th of September falls in a week. If it’s falling on a

Monday, well, that’s not a problem, but if it’s falling on a Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, then I think it would be to our advantage to leave the parks open so our residents can have an opportunity to get another weekend of camping in no matter where they are.

The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Office, I note in the budget that we still have that office, and I believe the budget document references that we do provide money to the Aboriginal Pipeline Group. I have to wonder why we are doing that. There hasn’t been any activity, really, on the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline for quite some time. My concern is, why are we giving money to the Aboriginal Pipeline Group?

The Sport Hunters Outfitters Marketing Program is something which has been, I think, fully recognized, been accepted and needed by our caribou outfitters. I think it went down quite a bit in money in this current budget year and I gather that there’s an increase in the next budget year. The outfitters are really struggling and I think I would like to have the Minister consider a long-term commitment to this program as opposed to just year by year. An increase in money is always a good thing. I think the outfitters, from what I understand, would like to have… It does cost them probably around $30,000 or $40,000 annually just to keep up their camps. If we could commit to a program that is three years in length as opposed to just one year, and if we could commit to the amount of money that’s required to ensure that outfitters have at least enough money

to maintain their camp in any one year, that would really be of value for them.

I haven’t heard much lately so it makes me wonder about the Come Make Your Mark Campaign. It was very loudly promoted, there was a lot of ballyhoo, for lack of a better word, about it a year or two years ago. I haven’t heard anything in probably the last 12 months. Is that program still operating? Are we still putting money into it? I wonder about the success of that program. Are we not hearing about it because it hasn’t been successful, or are we not hearing about it because it is successful? I would like to know where things are at with that particular program.

Lastly, I’m struggling with my notes here, but I think with regard to NTPC and the government, we talked about this some time ago, but where are things at with the Power Corporation, and the relationship of the Power Corporation to the government? There were some changes being made, I think, at one point. It kind of goes to energy production or electricity production. Do we as a government have the capacity to guide the Power Corporation to where we want to go? It’s hard for me to get out there what I’m trying to say. As a government, and I think it goes back to the subsidies and cost of electricity, are we able to use the Power Corporation to our advantage as opposed to having to bend to their will, so to speak? I hope that was clear. I’m struggling with words on that one.

That’s all I have. Thank you very much.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Moving on with general questions I have Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m hoping to start with a few general comments. Mine are in no specific order, either, I guess.

Obviously the first one that I would like to get some more details on the implementation of the decentralization by the department is the transfer of the positions over to Hay River and when the department expects that to happen. We’re obviously very pleased and excited to hear about that in the Hay River area. Just to see when that implementation will happen. I guess, when would we see those positions actually on the ground in Hay River? It would be nice to have a game plan from the department on how that implementation is going to be happening.

I, too, have questions about the Mackenzie Gas Project. Are there any updates to it or are we just expecting that to be at a standstill for the next year? Ms. Bisaro had mentioned the funding to the pipeline group and where we’re standing with that. Have we maintained the same levels?

I know from our side, as Members, we were asking for $1.2 million in marketing starting this year. The

department’s committed to doing $600,000 this year and then another $600,000 next year to get to the $1.2 million. I’d like to see us get to the $1.2 million this year, to the point where we can increase that amount. That’s a wish list, I guess.

Along the lines of tourism, I’d also like to, I know when we were discussing the business plans the department’s analysis of the marketing dollars that the department puts in and what kind of return we get into different areas. If we’re marketing on TV or whatever, are we seeing the results in our viewing, the results in fishing, general tourists? Do we see it in sports and leisure visitors? It would be nice to have a better indication or some more details on that as far as where our money is going.

Obviously, as the MLA for Hay River, I’m interested in the small business sector and the volume and amount of the SEED program. Is that maintaining its level or are we increasing those amounts this year? We’re, obviously, interested in seeing small business expanding throughout the Northwest Territories. I’d like to know what the status of the SEED program is.

I’m also very interested in the department’s assistance in agriculture and the fishing industry to vital parts of expanding areas for the Hay River area. Obviously we’d like to see the fishery expanded to the way of old, picking the volumes back up and what the department’s plan is to assist in that area. As well as the agriculture, the small agriculture that we have in the Northwest Territories mostly based in the South Slave area, it’s expanding throughout the Northwest Territories. I know there’s some in Norman Wells and there’s a little bit in Inuvik. What are the department’s plans to assist in the expansion of the agriculture that is basically helpful in reducing the cost of living for some people throughout the Northwest Territories and to the development of jobs?

Some of the other questions I’ll have as we go along, I know we discussed in last year’s budget the permafrost scientist position in Inuvik and I just wanted to make sure that it had been filled and what the status of that position is. If it hasn’t been filled, when will it be filled and why hasn’t it been filled?

I, too, have some questions on the energy side. I see the $50,000 for the Water Monitoring Program in Kakisa, which I assume is some sort of river generating system. I’m just wondering why the department would be doing this again. I know we’ve tried that in Fort Simpson, with limited success. What is the difference between that program and this program? Are we not just reproducing things that we’ve done before with limited results?

Those are my opening comments. I will have more detail as we go along.

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Next on my list is Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’m happy to see the Minister making some strong efforts in taking care of the opportunities that are in the Sahtu region and the development of some of the business opportunities that could take some presence in regard to the, oil and gas Canol shale play in the Sahtu region.

The Minister is looking at some partnerships within ITI and there are many types of partnerships. I look forward to seeing where there are some various levels of different types of partnerships. We have partnerships with oil and gas, partnerships with the community, with Aboriginal businesses, with northern businesses and different partnerships that would promote community self-reliance.

As my colleague indicated, one of them is agriculture. In the Hay River area they have a lot of chickens and eggs. That’s something that I really support. Every store in the Northwest Territories, hopefully, in five years should be having these Polar Eggs on their shelves and we should buy from the North. I would like to see some type of measurement.

When the Minister talks about community self-reliance, I’d like to see some type of initiative that would have the Norman Wells potatoes, for example. In five years we should be filling half of our potato shelves in our Northern Co-op Stores or Northern Stores. That would promote community self-reliance and promote the development of our most valuable resources, which is our people. So it’s things like that that I look forward to the Minister providing good quality programs and services that would obtain these highly achievable results, It could happen. So I look forward to the Minister in that area.

The Minister wants to promote and support the Northwest Territories. We are no different than him and his department. We also want to do it. We saw that in Vancouver. It was a very good job. We also saw that recently in Ottawa, where the North has been promoted as a place to potentially address dollars in our economy, our resources. This, in turn, supports local businesses and people in our small communities.

I guess what we look at is the economic prosperity that the North could have. It’s overwhelming when you look at the prosperity and the wealth in the Northwest Territories. One of the obstacles that we need to look at through the economic area is the infrastructure. It’s no surprise to the Minister that when you look at a region that has gained some attraction in oil and gas and the oil companies are going for the money in my region, we need to look at some much improved infrastructure. We should talk to some other Ministers to see this come to fruition. However, I support the Minister in creating

some of the economic prosperity in the Northwest Territories.

At the same time I’m saying that, the Minister is very cognizant of the sustainable development, the renewable resource development in the areas of conservation and the protection of our environment. The Minister noted that we have the young children. We want a good, strong environment for our children. We value the environment, and that’s where we look at how we balance the protection but also the opportunity for our children to make a living off our land. That’s where the Minister is going to be going. I look forward to some of his discussions and ideas as to how we do this. That’s exciting.

I think he has some viewpoints that need to be shared with us sometime in the future as to having a paper that would protect our environment, protect our pristine area through the Protected Areas Strategy, through our land use plans. I’ve been working with this colleague, ENR, and how do we have both. How do we use both to our most beneficial opportunity for sustaining ourselves as a young, developing territory in the Northwest Territories? I ask the Minister to come with us with some of your thoughts so we can have a good discussion.

The last point I want to ask the Minister is that I look for avenues and opportunities where you could see the North being promoted, utilizing what we have here with our culture, with our language and with the diamonds. I think you did a good job of utilizing the diamonds in the southern part of the North. When you go down south, they always talk about the polar bear diamonds. They’ve branded well. People are starting to say they want the polar bear diamonds. So utilizing and marketing those key marketing strategies that will sell the North to the southern people.

I guess I want to end off with the Minister looking at tourism, tourism in areas where we don’t yet have an all-weather road. So how do we promote? Because it will be a while before we build an all-weather road. So how do we promote small communities like the ones in the Sahtu or any other small communities that we represent? How do we get tours into those communities knowing that there is the high cost of flights, accommodations might not be up to the standards that typical tourists like, and not enough things to do? Is that something that we just have to face saying, you know what, guys, we can only attract 5 percent of the tourists, and the next 80 percent of the tourists are going to be here in Yellowknife because it is just the way the market is? We can’t keep on saying we’ll try each community. We know that’s not going to happen.

There are only so many people that can visit Deline. The world’s biggest trout was caught in Deline, 85 pounds. I don’t see any tourist marketing on that. Surely we can’t be that ignorant of the fact

that that is something we should use to attract people. Eighty-five pounds, the largest world record trout caught, but I don’t see much tourism attraction and marketing of that, or Great Bear Lake being the birthplace of ice hockey, or the biggest muskox was shot in Norman Wells.

We seem to be marketing different areas or the Nahanni on the river. We have to start marketing some of those, or the Canol. It’s considered the world’s…(inaudible)… I think we have to have some selection of our marketing in that area. That is what I wanted to ask the Minister. When you look at marketing, I asked him if he would look at the whole North and focus on some of those key areas that we have in the Northwest Territories. I’m only speaking of the Sahtu. I think we have some good things we could market, but we also have to be realistic on how much we can market. I look forward to going to the Minister and his budget. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. We are on general comments. Next on my list is Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’ll try to keep this short. Obviously the announcement in the Minister’s opening remarks about the $100,000 to find a solution for the Inuvik gas situation is something that I’ll keep on top of and always ask questions to see how things roll out over the next few weeks, after talking with Mr. Miltenberger last week in regard to this. Obviously that is probably the number one priority for me right now.

Probably second to that is the tourism, the $600,000 that was allocated that went on top of the marketing budget for Tourism NWT. They have a really good business plan. They have all their measurable goals, outcomes. It looks really great when I reviewed it a few times. It’s already in place. This was something that was done a couple fiscal years ago and just now they’re getting the funding.

Just playing on the success of NWT Days, I feel that NWT Tourism played a huge role in that in terms of their interactive displays and the pavilion that they had during Winterlude. It could have been a really good possible contributor to having all of these invitations for the GNWT to attend all of these other events. You saw the success, the professionalism, the work that NWT Tourism did while they were down in Ottawa, and the work that they did with residents of Ottawa and with the government. I feel that $600,000 is good in terms of implementing their strategy, but this is a strategy and a marketing strategy that is very detailed that they had for the last couple of years. I’m pretty sure they know where the dollars are going to be spent. Also, doing a presentation to committee, they seem pretty concerned, as well, in terms of competing spaces during Arctic Air and some of our other possibilities of marketing to certain markets. I feel that the $1.2 million should be there. That’s my

personal opinion. And I’m not sure how other committee members feel, but I’m sure they have the same kind of feelings in terms of that $1.2 million, otherwise we wouldn’t have asked for it during this whole budget dialogue process.

In terms of tourism, I know they want to focus on other markets and so can continue to press some of the tourism attractions here in the capital, but what I’d like to see, as Mr. Yakeleya just kind of touched on, is taking some of that tourism dollars and promoting some of the other regions that do need that, especially the regions that are in some economic downturns right now and can try to invest in another type of industry where other industries are not seeing much success.

If not, it’s something we can always fight for. If the $600,000 is something the Minister is going to be stuck on and the $600,000 does get spent and does show this government that NWT Tourism is capable of spending those dollars and is able to reach those markets and bring more revenue to the Northwest Territories, then possibly seeing a supplementary appropriation of the other $600,000 in this fiscal year as another option in terms of meeting the needs and the objectives of that expanded marketing strategy that they had.

I’m also very interested in looking at the parks, the investments and going on Ms. Bisaro’s comments about closing dates, I know there’s a big concern about that, especially when you have a lot of people in the Northwest Territories who like to go out camping, making those a bit longer and trying to get in as much as you can, obviously, because we do have a short summer season here, a short camping season.

I’d like to also commend the Minister and his staff on creating this Economic Strategy initiative that’s going out to the NWT. I know that I’ve sat down with the panel and had a very good discussion and I was very engaged for the full hour and a half and I’m hoping they are getting the same out in the communities and from other Members to see where we can start doing some of our other investments that will create some viable economic options for, like I said, the regions that really do need it or continue to support the ones that are being successful.

The arts and crafts, the film industry, speaking with some of the staff that are working with one of our biggest productions here, Arctic Air, and staff that say it is difficult to do work here in the Northwest Territories because of some of the incentives some of the other jurisdictions give the film industry, and yet they want to try to continue to work here but they find it very hard and it is expensive. I would like the department to seek other options to maybe get that adjusted so we can start bringing more of our film industry here, also because we do have a

great community of arts and drama and film folks here in the Northwest Territories as well.

That’s about it except for one big thing that the Minister doesn’t know I have a passion for and that’s the Business Incentive Policy. I really do feel that it needs to be reviewed and it needs to be improved. I’ve heard questions in the House today in regards to that policy itself. It’s something, in the short time I’ve been in the Assembly, I feel that needs to be address and that’s coming from people on the ground level and speaking with Aboriginal companies and local companies to make sure that when we go through the process that everyone has a fair opportunity. If we want to create diversity in the North, and economic benefits, then we have to start looking at our companies first and make sure they get hired.

Those are just some of the main concerns that I have and as we go through the detail, we’ll have some questions. That’s it for now, Madam Chair. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

Thank you, Mr. Moses Members, seeing the clock, Mr. Dolynny is next on the list but he won’t have time to finish. So I will ask Mr. Menicoche what is the wish of committee.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that we report progress. Thank you.

---Carried

The Chair

The Chair Wendy Bisaro

I will rise and report progress. Thank you, Minister, for attending, and witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, would you please escort our witnesses from the Chamber.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Can I have the report of Committee of the Whole, please, Ms. Bisaro.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 9-17(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2013-2014, and would like to report progress with one motion being adopted. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. A motion is on the floor. Do we have a seconder? The seconder will be Mr. Menicoche.

---Carried

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Item 23, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

Orders of the day for Tuesday, February 19, 2013, 1:30 p.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’

Statements

3. Members’

Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Acknowledgements

7. Oral

Questions

8. Written

Questions

9. Returns to Written Questions

10. Replies to Opening Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

18. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 2, An Act to Amend the Territorial Parks

Act

19. Second Reading of Bills

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 9-17(4), NWT Main

Estimates, 2013-2014

- Bill 1, Tlicho Statutes Amendment Act

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

23. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Tuesday, February 19th , at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 5:56 p.m.