This is page numbers 2863 - 2918 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was income.

Topics

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member's statement I talked about the bariatric surgery and my current situation. I have questions for the Minister of Health. I guess I'm basically looking for direction from the Minister of Health. Why does the GNWT not pay for bariatric surgery?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this time the bariatric surgery is not part of the formulary; however, it can be, depending on what type of programs the doctor will recommend to an individual that may require bariatric surgery, depending on the body mass index. So, based on that, there would be several programs an individual could go through and nutrition programs, a routine that they would have to go through in order to become eligible for bariatric surgery. Thank you.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Along those lines, the department has indicated to me that it is insurable if it's medically necessary. Can the Minister explain to me what is medical necessity? Does it matter if you're 50 pounds overweight, 100 pounds overweight, 200 pounds overweight? When does it become a medical necessity to lose this weight?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

At one point when morbid obesity is being considered to be endangering an individual's life, then it would be considered medically necessary. Thank you.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

I think the longer that somebody is obese the more likely it's going to cost the system, and cost the system in different ways. As I indicated, I was a big cost on the system before with insulin and large volumes of Metformin a requirement.

As I indicated, the department will receive its money back quickly on bariatric surgery by reducing the amount of medication required. Has the Minister looked into the cost recovery process due to weight loss done by bariatric surgery? Thank you.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Not officially and we understand that if an individual did receive bariatric surgery and then he was to come off some expensive diabetic medicines, then the recovery would be fairly rapid. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Minister indicated, a person could come off those medications really quickly and the money could be obtained quickly.

Can I get commitment from the Minister that his department will look into doing bariatric surgery sooner than later and helping these people in the North that are heavy, heavy people that are way overweight? I'm not talking about somebody that's 20 or 30 pounds, I'm talking about somebody that's 100, 150, 200 pounds, like I was.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

The department is interested in cost containment, and if we look at bariatric surgery and we recognize that the surgery is cost beneficial to the GNWT, and of course, changing the life of an individual that is morbidly obese, I will commit to looking into at least doing a cost-benefit analysis of that.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday I gave a Member's statement about the challenges which I had in accessing information from this government. More specifically, it was for a public government office building that's being built here in Yellowknife. I subsequently tabled, with this House, copies of my attempts to obtain a copy of this contract with the Department of Public Works. I also tabled an abstract from the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, Section 3(2), which states that the act is in addition to and does not replace existing procedures for access to government information or records.

Yesterday the Minister of Public Works and Services stated that I failed to follow the usual procedures in getting a copy of this contract. I had the opportunity to take a look at the debate in this House when the access to legislation was passed. That was in 1994. This is in reference to page 265, of 1994, October 13th, that I'll table later on today. At that time, a concern was raised that the act would be used to deny information to MLAs, could take away their privileges as a Member. Then the Minister of the day for Justice, Mr. Kakfwi, clearly indicated that the legislation was, and his words were, “...in no way replaces current procedures in place for accessing information, which includes MLAs.”

Given this background, will the honourable Minister of Justice and Minister of Public Works and Services commit to providing me a copy of the sought after contract without being redacted and without the necessity of me having to apply under the ATIPP Act?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The Minister of Justice, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As MLAs, as Ministers we have a responsibility to protect the rights of privacies of individuals and organizations. We also have a responsibility to share information as much as we can with our colleagues. But there is a law. The ATIPP Act requires public bodies to protect the business interests of third parties, while balancing the right of the public to access information held by public bodies. Request for access to contract information is assessed against the protection afforded to third-party business interests contained within Section 24 of the act. This section requires public bodies to review whether disclosure of business information could, among other things, harm the competitiveness of a contractor providing services to public bodies.

Also, Mr. Dolynny has tabled Section 3(2) of the ATIPP Act, which requires or provides that this act is in addition to and does not replace existing procedures for access to government information or records. Section 3(2) means that public bodies can, and should, apply policies and procedures related to routine disclosure of government information, without requiring individuals to resort to making requests under ATIPP.

Unfortunately, Mr. Dolynny has not identified the policies or procedures to which Section 3(2) might apply, and under which of the contracts in question should have been disclosed to his constituency assistant as a matter of routine.

My record speaks for itself. I've been open and transparent with committee. I've been open and transparent with Members, and I've done everything I can legally to provide them legally appropriate documents. In this case, the law is clear. I cannot give the Member a copy of this contract without going to the public body or the organization that the contract is in party with.

I've encouraged the Member to file an ATIPP request. The Member has not filed an ATIPP request. Once the Member files an ATIPP request - and we as Members are all bound by the law; we're not above the law; it has to be applied accordingly, which basically means that the ATIPP request would go through the normal process - we would identify the number of pages that are required in the request and we would identify a cost. The Member has the opportunity then, if he were to file an ATIPP request, to actually ask us to waive the fee, which absolutely, as a Member, we would do, because we want Members to have the information they need to make informed decisions. There is a law. I as Attorney General of the Northwest Territories will not break the law to give the Member a contract. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I did table the document which I did. My office did apply for the ATIPP request. I have no reason to go collect bottles and pop cans around Yellowknife to raise $1,500 to do so. My budget does not allow me to do that.

Given that I have an obligation as an MLA to hold this government accountable, and given that this House was expressly told that the access legislation wasn't meant to replace the usual way of accessing information, will this Minister, will the Department of Public Works and Services reconsider their position and provide me with this information even only on a confidential basis?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated yesterday, we've had one application for this information. It was from a private citizen sent from his private home, with no reference at all that he was working on behalf of the MLA. The staff who actually processed the request would have had no idea that the Member was actually the one forwarding this request.

I would love to provide the contract to the Member. I would love to do it in open and in public. The problem is, there is a law. I can't break the law. I would like to work with the Member. I would like to sit down with the Member and identify what exactly he is trying to get to so that I can provide that information.

Over the last number of months we have provided significant information. The RFP was available on-line, which outlined the build of this building. We have had public discussion in committee about the budget, so everybody in the House knows what the budget is. The contract value is public. What we have actually signed with the contractor is, indeed, public. The timeline is known. We sat here in Committee of the Whole and discussed a timeline at length. The committee has been made aware of everything on this file. The contract is over 1,000 pages long and it is a third-party contract via an agreement with somebody else. An employee can sit down with the Member and walk through the contract and show him. I had to get permission from them. The way that we engage that process is through ATIPP. We happened to waive the fee for the Member, but the Member has to file an ATIPP request and ask us to waive the fee because it is clearly outlined in law. We will do that, but it has to be done through the appropriate channels, Mr. Speaker.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, believe me, the project is under budget and on time. We hear this time and time again and somehow we are supposed to believe all the information that we have here when we are disclosing witnesses. How can we, when we can't look at the information? That is basically the real problem. We have to believe that it is okay. I have the right to look at that information. I was elected to do so. I have the accountability of the people of Range Lake to do that business.

Will the Minister commit to a review of the policies and procedures around MLAs obtaining government information under the review of this so-called act that we are trying to hold dear to our heart, so as to ensure that the historical tradition and the consensus-based Legislature which we are in, of this government, will provide us as Members the continuous way so that we can do our proper business in the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Let's have a bit of respect here. Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, we are not above the law. We are not above the law. As MLAs we are bound by the laws just like every other citizen. We don't have the right, nor should we, to break the law so that we can get information that has action part and parcel of a third party. That third party may say yes, MLA Dolynny can look at that contract. We are willing to ask, once the Member files an ATIPP request. Until such a time as that happens, we can't do that. It would be against the law. I'm not going to change the law just so MLAs can have access to information that they probably shouldn't have.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will reapply with an ATIPP request. I will include in my ATIPP request my addresses, birth certificate, my picture ID and my driver's licence. If I do all that, will the Minister comply and let me have a sneak peek of this contract? Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, the process is that it will be reviewed. It will be identified how many pages are required to meet the Member's request. It will identify the cost. The letter will indicate there is a cost. The Member can certainly ask us to waive the fee. Frankly, I'm interested in helping the Member obtain this information, so we will likely waive the fee, but we have to go through an appropriate process. We have to go through the legal process. I will do that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Hawkins.

QUESTION 313-17(4):
HEALTH CARE CARD RENEWAL PROCESS

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member's statement today I talked about the scandalous situation we have here about the lost faxes or even mailed health care forms when people are applying for renewal. My situation comes down to this: We don't know how many applications have been lost, we don't know where they have gone, we don't know who has this information, and we don't know what they're doing with this information.

So my question to the Minister of Health and Social Services is: Is he willing to do a public type of inquiry into this process to find out where this information has gone, how come something seems to be screwed up, and what is he going to do to fix it to show confidence in the public system? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister of Health, Mr. Beaulieu.