This is page numbers 4805 – 4846 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Topics

The House met at 1:31 p.m.

---Prayer

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Good afternoon, colleagues.

Before we begin, today my constituent Persis Gruben turns 96 years old in my hometown of Tuktoyaktuk.

---Applause

Persis’ mind is very sharp and she’s still an active member of the community. I can only imagine the changes she’s seen throughout her lifetime, from dog teams to snowmobiles, umiaks to powered boats, and telephones to cell phones. Like most small communities in the NWT, we are subsistence harvesters, and to have her knowledge of the land, culture and language is remarkable. Persis is an inspiration to our community and we are very blessed to have her.

Persis, happy birthday. We’re wishing you many more, and God bless you and your family for the day.

Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment

Mr. Speaker, small businesses and entrepreneurs are the backbone of our community and regional economies.

To encourage economic diversity and sustainability, the Government of the Northwest Territories has long supported the interests and growth of this highly valued segment of the North’s economic community through a variety of programs and services.

As we mark Small Business Week this year, the GNWT is moving forward with the implementation of its NWT Economic Opportunities Strategy. This

strategy offers a plan to expand and diversify the NWT economy outside of its rich resource sector in areas such as agriculture, tourism, fishing, manufacturing and the traditional economies.

Later today I will be tabling the NWT Economic Opportunities Strategy Implementation Plan that maps out the priorities, methods and resources to address the strategy’s 117 recommended actions.

It reflects, in part, our commitment to improve supports to NWT businesses and to grow a stable and attractive entrepreneurial environment.

The work of ITI, along with our partners, has confirmed that there are great opportunities for us to balance and diversify our economy in all regions and in all sectors. Our partners, including the NWT Chamber of Commerce, the NWT Association of Communities, the Northern Aboriginal Business Association, and Canada’s Northern Economic Development Agency (CanNor), will be integral as we work to implement the strategy’s recommendations.

The engagement process that informed the Economic Opportunities Strategy also offered valuable insights into how we deliver business support programs and services. We are now

addressing many of the challenges and

barriers that were identified, and acting on the initiatives and ideas that were identified.

We are addressing issues of red tape. Our planned actions on 11 of the recommendations identified in the NWT Economic Opportunities Strategy are designed to better target, streamline and coordinate government programs and services.

We are also finding ways to better target government resources and funding to realize identified regional priorities, to do a better job of promoting and marketing programs and services that are available through government to support NWT businesses, and to deliver more of our information and services online.

Though this strategy is in its early days, we are already seeing its benefits.

Our destination marketing organization, NWT Tourism, is operating the newly established Conference Bureau, which was a recommendation of the strategy. The Conference Bureau better positions this territory to attract more business

travellers and provide spin-off benefits for transportation suppliers, hotels, restaurants, artisans and tour operators.

The Economic Opportunities Strategy also recommended working to expand the export and domestic market of Great Slave Lake fish. With industry feedback, we have created a new brand, point of purchase materials, packaging, and promotional items for producers and retailers to help market the NWT’s fresh fish product. We are also proposing $1.5 million in 2015-16 and will be looking for partners to replace the fishing industry’s outdated federal infrastructure and to generate new capital to stimulate an era of self-sufficiency for our commercial fishing industry.

Economic diversity and sustainability is, foremost, reliant on a competitive business environment in which NWT residents have the tools to invest, overcome challenges and prosper.

On April 1st the Business Development and

Investment Corporation will celebrate its 10th anniversary. Over the last decade the BDIC has been serving small businesses across the NWT, offering loans, grants, business information and support.

In the coming years the BDIC will spearhead a number of services to further assist small businesses. Initiatives include developing a framework that will connect NWT businesses with opportunities around the globe and expanding its small business training and counselling services. These services will provide small businesses with national and cross-border networking, trade opportunities and business mentorship.

Through the evolution of business support programs and services, ITI and the BDIC will continue to excel as essential resources for economic development in the NWT.

The responsibility of developing a competitive economic environment belongs to us all as we work to achieve our goal of a diversified economy that provides all communities with opportunities and choices. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, it has been a challenging summer for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. During this past summer the Taltson hydroelectric plant and the transmission lines between the Snare plants and Yellowknife were threatened by forest fires. Fortunately, all major infrastructure was preserved; however, these same fires were responsible for half

of the power outages experienced on the Snare system.

The same drought conditions that contributed to this being one of the worst forest fires years in history is also responsible for low water on the Snare system. Water levels at Snare are at a 64-year low and prompted the corporation to apply for a 3.7 cent rate rider to cover the additional 16 million litres of fuel it anticipates burning up until June 2015 at a cost of about $20 million. This government recognized that customers could not afford an increase in power costs and agreed to cover this unavoidable expense.

Mr. Speaker, the corporation recognizes the current way of operating is no longer sustainable; rates have reached their limit of affordability. What occurred this past summer, while an environmental anomaly, has been a catalyst that has initiated serious discussion on potentially game-changing direction and focus.

We look forward to the upcoming Energy Charrette as it will provide direction and guidance for the future of power generation in the territory. NTPC and the Government of Northwest Territories are open and willing to consider any generation option that is sustainable and reliable and that does not increase the cost of power to the customer.

In addition to a new direction, this government also needs to look at what it can do to invest in infrastructure to keep power affordable. While an interconnecting transmission grid, both within the territory and to the southern grid, is still a long-term goal, it is not attainable in the short or medium term. Instead, this government and NTPC will continue to work together to investigate, research and test alternative options that will lower the cost of generating power, reduce dependence on diesel, especially in the thermal communities, and that will potentially create opportunities for economic development in the process.

The ongoing collaboration between the corporation and this government is a great improvement and is continually strengthened through projects like heat sales in the South Slave region. GNWT and South Slave towns will be offered surplus energy from the Taltson system at reduced rates with all revenues going to support conservation efforts and renewable energy projects.

Mr. Speaker, NTPC has made inroads in alternative energy and conservation this year. Construction of the solar farm in Colville Lake started in August with completion expected this month; more than 800 of the thermal zone’s 2,000 streetlights have been converted to LED, and the Net Metering Program was launched in April, giving residents the opportunity to install alternative power generation systems on their property and receive credit for power they produce. This is just a sample of the work being done. More information will be available

on the “Energy Alternatives” section of NTPC’s website in the coming days.

Conservation as our lowest cost alternative to building additional generation is an important area of focus for NTPC. The corporation is working at developing an extensive conservation section to their website as a first step in informing customers about the way they presently consume electricity and how they can be more efficient with energy use. Beyond their website, NTPC will also be sending out conservation information with customer bills along with running a conservation campaign later this fall.

Mr. Speaker, the corporation continues to build capacity in the territory through its hiring local people into apprenticeships and this year has hired an additional three Northerners in positions where they are developing skills on the job and have full-time employment.

As we move into the last year of this government’s mandate, it is important to keep moving forward, making thoughtful, educated decisions that are in the long-term best interest of the residents of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories has a vision of a strong, prosperous North. We know that creating this North starts with healthy, safe communities where people can prosper, free from the fear of violence.

October 5 to 11, 2014, was the 14th Annual Family

Violence Awareness Week. There were several events held across the Northwest Territories to bring attention to the serious ongoing problem we have with family violence among our residents. These events included a radio phone-in show in Fort Good Hope, school presentations with elders and youth in Tuktoyaktuk, workshops on the Hay River Reserve, four events in Fort Liard, including a community potluck, Fort Simpson high school students decorated and displayed anti-violence T-shirts and Inuvik held a scavenger hunt and barbeque. I want to congratulate all the communities who participated in these and other activities.

Northwest Territories Family Violence Awareness Week draws attention to the issue of domestic violence and encourages residents to stand together to stop the violence. This year's focus was on the bystander in family violence: co-workers, friends, family members and neighbours.

This is challenging, Mr. Speaker. How do individuals and government respond to what is

often viewed as a private family matter or a matter for the police? I believe the role of government is to provide programs and supports to help prevent family violence and treat its impacts and to also demonstrate leadership.

The Department of Health and Social Services and the Department of Justice provide many of the programs and services our residents need to prevent and to deal with family violence. Their work is often guided by the advice and input from the Coalition Against Family Violence. Members will recall that the coalition is a multi-agency group working collectively to reduce the incidence of and to more effectively respond to family violence in the Northwest Territories.

It has been through the work of the coalition that many of the more innovative approaches to addressing family violence have been developed, including emergency protection orders and the men’s healing program. I want to thank all members of the coalition for their ongoing commitment and dedication, in particular the Status of Women Council, which chairs and provides administration for the coalition.

Government leaders also have a role in stopping family violence. Earlier this month I met with the Northwest Territories Metis Nation and with the Tlicho Government. We discussed the impact family violence has on our communities and how we need to demonstrate leadership and take a stand against family violence as governments.

The Government of the Northwest Territories is committed to stopping family violence. It is a serious problem that impacts all Northerners, and I will continue to raise this issue with all of our Aboriginal government partners in the weeks and months ahead.

We are all affected by family violence, which means we all have an interest in stopping it. By working together with the Coalition Against Family Violence, with our Aboriginal government partners and with communities, the Government of the Northwest Territories is dedicated to improving the safety, security and well-being of all of our residents.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 3, Members’ statements. Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In August Prime Minister Stephen Harper was in the South Slave to announce new funding for northern agriculture. The Prime Minister announced

$2 million in funding to help establish a permanent campus for the Northern Farm Training Initiative in Hay River – in Hay River, I like the sound of that – and up to $2 million to launch the Northern Greenhouse Initiative.

The Territorial Farmers Association has been working on a permanent campus for the Northern Farm Training Initiative since 2012. The association has operated market gardens, built greenhouses and found innovative ways to enhance agriculture in the North for the last 40 years. The new facility will help deliver agricultural training especially designed to meet the needs of our communities. Construction is planned starting 2015.

Students will have the opportunity to develop skills in farming, greenhouse technology and raising livestock and take the information they glean back to their communities. They will also be able to sell flowers and produce from the campus.

Another part of the Prime Minister’s announcement: the Northern Greenhouse Initiative will support the development of commercial greenhouses and ways to enhance the productivity of existing greenhouses throughout the North.

The Northern Farm Training Initiative will be at the sight of AgNorth, a pilot project in agricultural technology that utilizes specialized LED lighting and hydroponics to grow produce indoors year round.

Proliferation of community gardens and the increasing number of people finding creative ways to build greenhouses into their lives and homes are evidence of a growing interest in agriculture in the North. The Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment is developing an Agriculture Strategy.

With the recent announcement of training, technology and much appreciated capital this past August, we are sure to reap the rewards going forward. Mr. Speaker, I would be remiss if I did not mention the untiring efforts of a couple of young ladies in our community: Kim Rapati, who’s involved in the Territorial Farmers Association, and also Jackie Milne. If you’ve met Jackie and talked agriculture, you’re not likely to forget her any time soon. I’d like to thank them for their tireless efforts, which I believe played a part in bringing this program to fruition. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. It continues to be a rough ride down Highway No. 7. Kilometres 0 to 20 were scheduled to be chipsealed this summer, and the contract went out to a southern company. The Department of Transportation told me it had done its due diligence and assured me that Fort Liard and other

Northerners would still receive some benefit, even though this contract went south.

In order to secure the contract, the BC company provided certain assurances as to their intention to use services from two northern companies out of Fort Liard. My constituents inform me that this did not occur at all. To date, only one person was hired from the community of Fort Liard; none of the local businesses have seen any economic benefits flowing from this contract award. When we give out contracts to southern companies, we lose important taxation benefits like personal income taxes and fuel taxes that can be flowed back to the Northwest Territories. Also, the community, the whole community, the leadership wanted this contract negotiated, but once again, DOT did not allow that to happen.

Negotiated contracts are designed to help our communities to be sustainable, give them a foot up and to give them work where there’s no work to be had.

Also, when southern contractors make promises, we simply must be doing the weekly checks to ensure that these contractors are fulfilling their obligations to the community and northern businesses, not just saying they are and promise the world and do things differently once the contract is signed.

This seems to happen time and time again in the North, and we must stop. We may not be able to prevent vehicles from breaking down on this infamous highway, but this is the kind of breakdown we can’t even blame on permafrost.

I strongly recommend that this government carefully monitor contracting practices, especially when it comes to southern companies. We want to do business in the North and build capacity for local businesses. Thank you very much. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s been a busy summer and fall in the Sahtu, from the youth hand games tournament to the retired NHL stars Rob Niedermayer and Brendan Morrison dropping by Deline for some world-class fishing and visiting the birthplace of ice hockey in Canada. It was another successful summer with our ninth annual Canol youth leadership hike. Our Dene and Metis leaders came together and held successful meetings across the Sahtu, including the SSI AGM in Fort Good Hope and recently last week in Deline with our regional Economic Strategy workshop.

Our rivers and mountains are busy places this fall with families out on the land looking to fill their

freezers with moose, lots of moose, lots of caribou and plenty of fish.

Today I want to take a moment to reflect on the lives of the people we have lost in the Sahtu since the last time we gathered in this Assembly. We have lost people from all age groups, some who contributed over several generations and some who have left us way too early, such as the late Faye Kara Grandjambe and the pilot, Mitchell St. Germain, two young people, one born in the Sahtu and one starting a career in aviation in our region.

Our region is rich in culture and spirituality. We rally around each other and come together to honour these lives, young and old. I want to thank everyone in our communities who come together to help at community feasts and support the families who’ve lost loved ones this summer and this fall. I also want to ask Members of this House and people across the Northwest Territories to continue to offer prayers and thoughts for those who are here in Stanton Hospital and who are people who may be in between medical treatments here and in Alberta. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cancer is a word we hear all too often. Whether we’re just more aware of why people are getting sick now or whether there actually is more cancer amongst our people, it is ever present in our lives and none of us here in this room or elsewhere in our territory, none of us have remained untouched by cancer. It’s a scary business being diagnosed with cancer, and patients are often left to their own devices after a diagnosis.

Over the years, volunteers with the NWT Breast Health/Breast Cancer Action Group have worked very hard to provide supports for breast cancer patients. One of the programs put in place and funded by them was a position at Stanton Territorial Hospital called patient navigator. For a number of reasons that position became vacant, and it has remained vacant for several years now. The one position identified to assist patients with navigation through the health system after a breast cancer diagnosis has been left unfilled.

Of course, it’s the patients who suffer the consequences the most. At a point when patients and families are facing the biggest challenge of their lives, they’re left to navigate and manage the system without assistance.

In the spring of 2014, the NWT Breast Health/Breast Cancer Action Group published a report. It was the findings of research from 2013,

with recommendations to, as they put it, improve the breast cancer journey. There are 18 recommendations in their report and all 18 are clear and timely.

One recommendation, number eight in particular, states, “establish regional cancer care coordinator and breast cancer system navigator positions. Cancer care coordinators will be health care professionals who will coordinate a patient’s cancer treatment and after-care. System navigators may be laypeople who understand and can help patients navigate the breast cancer pathway, respond to questions and act as the support person for the patient and her family.” I could not agree more.

Yet the one navigator position in whole of the NWT remains empty, and from what I can tell, it is being re-profiled to a coordinator position, a position further removed from patient care than a navigator.

At this time, cancer patients are diagnosed without the vital medical, emotional and personal support a navigator can provide…

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Not only do the breast cancer patients need a cancer system navigator but patients diagnosed with any kind of cancer need the special help a navigator can provide. Staffing the one position we’ve identified should be a top priority. The Minister of Health and Social Services must find a way to ensure that all cancer patients get the support they need immediately after diagnosis.

I will have questions for the Minister at the appropriate time. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ve been here for three years and I’m going to continue to dwell on the issue that Hay River needs dredging. The community of Hay River is the hub of the North. We do a lot of transportation; we have a railhead there. We’ve been asking for many years to get dredging in the Hay River.

It used to be a federal responsibility. We’ve been talking, I’ve been talking, my colleagues have been talking about dredging requirements. This year has been extremely low. As everybody knows, water levels are low everywhere, but now it is a critical situation.

Now we need our government to go to the federal government to get the money for dredging. We know it’s a federal responsibility. Our government

has told us that several times, but we’ve been trying to encourage the government to find ways, get a cost analysis, figure exactly what we’ve got. The government is handing out money everywhere else, $20 million here, $10 million there, $40 million there.

We need dredging in the Hay River now. Not soon, not later, now.

I will have questions for the Minister of Transportation. I know he’s had meetings with the federal Minister this summer. Was dredging of the Hay River on that agenda? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Aging In Place Action Plan
Members’ Statements

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many of us agree that all Canadians should have the options of elders living in their own homes and communities for as long as possible. This basic strategy will help reduce the needs for facilities, will lessen the impact on our health system, improve service integration and ultimately enhance our seniors’ quality of life.

In keeping in this context, Our Elders, Our Communities was a report tabled in this House on June 2, 2014, by the Minister of Health and Social Services. Upon reflection, many Members suspected this was a preliminary framework for the government’s Aging in Place action plan, which was based on the recent Continuing Care Review.

Unfortunately, this recently tabled report lists a framework for a number of recommended actions, yet again, what we’ve come to expect from the Department of Health and Social Services, this report, shamefully, does not include any specific targets or timelines.

Well, I’m sure everyone in this room will agree that Aging in Place strategies will no doubt offset some of the demand for long-term care beds in the NWT. We need to strongly ask, what is the government’s plan to ensure enough beds will be available when this territory reaches this critical phase? How critical, you ask. Well, let me tell you. The recent Continuing Care Review predicted that in the next 15 years the NWT will need, at a minimum, an additional 200 long-term care beds and over 60 dementia care beds.

With very little dedicated in this current infrastructure budget and with no targets or timelines for this new Aging in Place strategy, I ask again, to this government, to this Department of Health and to its Minister: Where is the real commitment to our elders? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Aging In Place Action Plan
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment opened up his comments today, mentioning that small businesses and entrepreneurs are the backbone of our community and regional economies. It is no more prevalent than in the community of Inuvik. It is getting to that time of year again when the Peel River and the Mackenzie River start to freeze up and it starts putting a little bit of a delay and backlog into the delivery of goods and services up into the Beaufort-Delta regional centre and into the communities.

Today I want to talk about small business, especially in the community of Inuvik, during those freeze-up and breakup times with the ferry operations. Speaking to some of the business owners in Inuvik, there was a concern, and a growing concern, of the ferry operations up in the Beaufort-Delta region during the freeze-up and the breakup, and I do understand that the amount of days that the ferry wasn’t in operation was less than if we waited for the ice road to go in or if we waited for the breakup to happen; however, a ferry in the middle of the river moving at a snail’s pace doesn’t mean it is operating. There are a lot of businesses that said, during the ferry operations they were waiting for the goods while it was on the other side of the river, and basing their orders on the fact that we were supposed to have the ferry operations open for a longer period of time.

Today I want to talk about how we help our businesses in Inuvik. How is the Department of Transportation going to communicate some of this information in terms of the ferry operation, because of the time it is going to get the trucks and the vehicles across the ice crossings so that we get the services and the goods on the shelves in our stores and the services into the community?

There are a few issues that are raised here, and I will have questions for the Minister of Transportation. But like I mentioned, these businesses are integral to the local economy, to the region, and I feel like we need to have their support there for our small businesses, so that they can continue to operate and they can continue to make the revenue that they need to pay the bills and continue to provide the services up in the community of Inuvik. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The Indian and Residential School Supplement has been in effect for the better part of a decade. The supplement has five components, including the common experience payments, intending to recognize the harmful impact of the residential school experience. A total of $1.9 billion were allocated for common experience payments.

In the Northwest Territories, 5,000 people received these one-time lump sum payouts. The average payout is about $20,000. Although the formal common experience payment process ended two years ago, $40 million remains in the pot, so the federal government announced an extension of sorts, offering a one-time personal credit of up to $3,000 to anyone who already qualified for a common experience payment. The credit can be used for a range of educational activities: for programs at university, college or trade school, or for activities that build knowledge about Aboriginal culture. People can transfer these personal credits to family members, or pool them to develop programs that promote traditional knowledge.

The 2013 Minister’s Forum on Addictions called for more on-the-land programs to help with healing, and along with Mr. Paul Andrew, who chaired the Minister’s Forum, encouraged people to pool their credits together and use the money to benefit the entire community. For example, the pooled money can be used to pay elders, facilitators and camp assistants. It can be put forth for food, cooking supplies, camp equipment, books, art supplies or office technology. The application deadline is October 31st and the chosen school or organization

has until December 1st of this year to redeem the

credit.

These deadlines are fast approaching, but there is still time to collectively join elders out on the land and get that education going. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Housing Issues In The North
Members’ Statements

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m going to use my Member’s statement to talk about the facts, so here they are: In 2009 the NWT Community Housing Survey said that 19 percent of Northerners are in core need of housing. What matters little more than your health and your family than housing? Everything starts at home. While we continue to talk about revitalizing our declining population here in the Northwest Territories, we have communities suffering the negative effects of

population leaving. But where do we start? Well, if there are no places to access housing, be it in Yellowknife, be it Paulatuk, be it Fort Good Hope, what do people do? People move to larger centres. What happens there? Their communities get smaller. Connect the dots – I hope the Finance Minister is – we have a declining population.

How do we get a teacher in a community that has no housing options? We’ve heard that complaint in Liard. We’ve heard that complaint in other small towns. How do we get a tradesperson in Norman Wells because they have nowhere to live? What about Tuktoyaktuk? What about even sometimes in Inuvik? These are real issues.

While this government continues to curl itself up with pipe dreams or focus in on its individual mining or fracking projects, it continues to forget about what matters to Northerners. We have to start at home. That’s where family is built and that is certainly where opportunities are built. In my view, what matters more than that? We want healthy families. We want housing options. They help families to be happy. They will have a better outlook. There have been many studies and many discussions over the years about family violence declines when suitable housing is there for people. These are all things that should be heralded by this government as job number one, but, again, focused in on the pipe dreams, mines and fracking, and other opportunities.

When they say they’re open for business, I ask, where? Because no business will come if they’ve got nowhere to live. I’ve heard from many people across the territory that they’d like to go to a small community but they don’t have the options. If you look at the average of this government right now, as I see in some scribbled notes in the backrooms, I see they’re going to implement less than one house, new house, across every community across the Northwest Territories.

What I’m saying is we have 33 communities in this territory, and we’re putting less than 33 new housing options on the ground in the North. Can we do better? I think we could do a lot better, because if we want to grow our population, as our Finance Minister says, if we want to get more investment from corporate and personal income tax, we’ve got to have people here, and those are the people who will help revitalize our North. Let’s get it done.

I’ll have questions, certainly, for the Minister of Housing to find out what he’s going to do.

Housing Issues In The North
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s now been a year and a half since the largest flood in the Mackenzie Delta in the last 10 years. At that time, about 15 families had their camps flood. There were even cabins that floated down the Peel River. To this day, only two people were provided compensation.

One of the policies for the application is the applicant must make 25 percent of their yearly earnings harvesting off the land. Many of my constituents do not sell what they harvest off the land because they share what they harvest with family, friends, and also barter with others, which has been our tradition for many years.

This is a growing concern in our communities, and I will be raising questions for the Minister later today.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For years this government has professed support for renewable energy and concern about cost of living. While enjoying reduced costs from converting our own infrastructure to renewables, we’ve hung communities out to dry. Soaring power costs to ratepayers and drains on tax revenues of hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies have been the result.

A sad case in point was the Fort Liard Geothermal Project. The Fort Liard Geothermal Project was led by private developer, Borealis GeoPower in partnership with the Acho Dene Koe First Nation of Fort Liard. The federal role was a commitment of $7.9 million, provided that investors could be found to finance the other half.

A third-party review confirmed that the project was technically feasible. Feasibility was again confirmed when the company rigorously and successfully met every regulatory and financial obligation required for a Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board permit in less than a year. Based on this, a line-up of investors was prepared to fund the other 50 percent of the project, requiring only the customary power purchase agreement from our 100 percent owned Power Corporation.

NTPC and GNWT were aware of the timing and of the existence of the sunset clauses related to the federal funding as well as subsequent timelines required to confirm investment. As a result of NTPC’s procrastination and failure to provide the signed power purchase agreement needed, the federal funding lapsed and the Fort Liard Geothermal Project folded.

To be clear, what was lost here was a 20-year contract for power to be provided at one-half to two-thirds of the cost of the day, a huge savings to the people of Liard, to the NWT power system and to the environment and the loss of local jobs that were to be generated. This travesty was the result of a philosophy of monopoly for power generation and distribution in the Northwest Territories for NTPC with an endorsement by this government, leaving accelerating costs of power accruing to the public.

Is this government serious about exploring renewable energy sources for community benefit, as opposed to just our own government benefit? Where was the direction to this wholly owned corporation to provide a timely power purchase agreement?

Clearly, and shamefully, despite backing by the community, by regulators and investors, by the federal government, the buck stopped with us and we failed our people. How often has this happened across the NWT before without it being profiled in the House? What other opportunities to actually reduce cost have we passed over, choosing instead to remove motivations and spend our millions on hollow subsidies while costs soar?

Borealis Geothermal remains convinced of this project’s feasibility and committed to the Liard project and claims investors are still interested, even without the federal subsidy. Does this government have what it takes to pursue this opportunity?

I will have questions. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. McLeod.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize and welcome from the Status of Women Council of the Northwest Territories, Lorraine Phaneuf, executive director; Annemieke Mulders, programs and research manager; Samantha Thomas, community development coordinator. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Menicoche.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’m very happy to recognize my partner, Lucyanne Kendo, in the gallery this week, and also my stepdaughter, Brittany Jewel, who’s showing off her haircut to the whole of the Northwest Territories today. Welcome.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Mr. Hawkins.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to make mention of several Yellowknife Centre constituents. I’ll start on the end with the NWT

Status of Women. We have Annemieke Mulders, Lorraine Phaneuf and I believe Samantha Thomas also lives downtown. She’s shaking her head, but I’ll take her anyway. Sitting next to them is the lovely Ms. Katherine Robinson. She’s devoted many great years of service here at the Premier’s office and to help many Members here, and she’s done a wonderful job. So, thank you very much for each and every one. Thank you.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Bouchard.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize two young Pages we have here with us this week: Mr. James Beaulieu and Austin Cayen, and also their chaperone, my own constituency assistant, Myrtle Graham. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. I’d like to welcome everybody here in the public gallery today. Thank you for taking an interest in our proceedings.

Item 6, acknowledgements. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I rise to acknowledge and congratulate Weledeh constituent Zhalaani Drygeese-Yelle on her recognition as Top Young Trapper in the North Slave region under the Genuine Mackenzie Fur program.

---Applause

It’s excellent to see her here in the gallery. Apologies for not recognizing Zhalaani. Perhaps her family is here too.

Zhalaani, a resident of Detah and in Grade 12, will graduate this year, but she is also learning about the traditional skills of her culture from her parents. Zhalaani’s parents believe in teaching their children both traditional and modern skills. A member of the Yellowknives Dene First Nation, she went on her first caribou hunt when she was nine and is now being recognized for her excellence in trapping muskrat and beaver. Obviously, her proud parents, Bertha Drygeese and Gerry Yelle, were successful and have much to pass on.

Mr. Speaker, I invite you and all Members to congratulate Zhalaani on her achievement and wish her well as she pursues her two paths of excellence. Well done, Zhalaani!

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I go back to item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery?

---Unanimous consent granted

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wish to acknowledge my constituency assistant, Josh Campbell. Lorraine Bezha, as you know, has gone to get her education and career in Fort Smith.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery (Reversion)

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Item 7, oral questions. The Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to congratulate our Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment on being named the president of the Pacific Northwest Economic Region and all the work that his department is doing with the geoscience office in undertaking of forming of the office of the regulator of the oil and gas operations in the Northwest Territories.

I want to ask the Minister of ITI to update the House briefly as to where his office is at in adopting and creating new policies and guidelines as the regulator.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the decisions that the government made was to regulate the oil and gas industry ourselves here in the Northwest Territories and grow the capacity here in the NWT, and we’ve done that. We’ve got an office set up separate from the Department of ITI, the office of the oil and gas regulator. It’s got an executive director; we’ve got staff in place at that office, and we’re looking forward to regulating the industry. We don’t have a lot of activity taking place currently, but we’re looking to see some more activity in the future. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. I want to say that we have a saying in the Sahtu: If you shoot a moose right the first time, you’ll have enough meat and hide and you’ll feed the family.

As the regulator, we’re setting up this office now in the Northwest Territories. Is the Minister in this

fashion, are we learning the hard way or are we learning the amazing and fast way? Can the Minister guarantee that we’ll be engaged in shaping the new regulation body, which stems directly and philosophically from the 17th Assembly priorities of

their positions and goals? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

What we have is an opportunity here, an opportunity to get things right, and it is our belief that we can regulate the industry ourselves. We have put the pieces in place that are going to allow us to regulate the industry here in the Northwest Territories, and we feel very competent that who best to regulate the industry than Northerners. We’re very proud of the decisions we’ve made to date and we’re proud of the opportunities that we have going forward and certainly look forward to working with Regular Members as we continue to strive to get the best regulatory system in place here in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Also, we have a saying in the Sahtu: fought over many years of our own sovereignty, institutions and culture.

Will the process of the regulations of oil and gas in the Northwest Territories respect the sovereignty of the Sahtu people, their settled land claims, the regulatory boards that we have? Will this process respect that there are land claims in place, there is sovereignty in place, there are processes of regulating oil and gas through the co-management boards that we have set up? Would that be respected?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

The quick answer is yes, it will be respected. We have independent land and water boards across the Northwest Territories. It’s not our intention to do anything to fetter their decision-making authority. What we want to do is get out. We inherited the filing requirements from the National Energy Board. Our intention is to get out draft requirements and filing requirements to the public and other stakeholders early in the new year, and we are moving forward with that plan.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Minister. Can the Minister go a little further? Can he give us more certainty than the honourable Premier did last week in the House? The regulatory office is at the heart of the next vital economy engine for the Northwest Territories.

In this country, shale gas is helping to shut down the dirty coal industry south of the border.

Does the Minister and Cabinet agree to share the draft regulations with all the Members of this House before Christmas and April 1, 2015? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

It’s our intention, certainly once the draft requirements are ready, we will certainly look at sharing those with the Standing Committee on Priorities and Planning and the Regular Members. It is our intention to do so.

As for the date of the end of December, our time frame right now is early January, and we’re hoping to ensure that we hit that we target of early January. So, at the earliest opportunity, we will be ready to share those draft filing requirements and new regulations with the Regular Members. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to follow up with my statement earlier today. Recently, Borealis GeoPower in partnership with Acho Dene Koe First Nations of Fort Liard and the federal government developed a geothermal power project, the feasibility of which was confirmed by a third-party review. The company met with every obligation for a Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board permit. The failure of NTPC to provide a power purchase agreement stopped the project.

Let me start with one specific. What was GNWT’s investment of taxpayer dollars and funds into this project? That is, including third-party review and other costs that we covered, how much did we contribute to the evaluation and development of this project proposal? Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The records indicate $190,000. Thank you.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

A power purchase agreement from the Power Corporation was a condition for the federal funding available. Despite a three-year window in which to provide the necessary power purchase agreement was not forthcoming from NTPC. The government has said that it provided the terms for an agreement, knowing full well that this falls short of the requirement for the PPA. This failure cost residents, businesses and government millions of dollars in the loss of local jobs. Borealis was willing to shoulder all financial risks.

Why did the government not direct this fully owned subsidiary to provide a power purchase agreement for this key energy initiative?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Work was done towards a power purchase agreement with Borealis. It was realized that a power purchase contract would be quite complex and timely to negotiate. In order to facilitate Borealis’s discussion

with financing partners like Husky Energy and one other large energy player, we gave them a term sheet which provided a 25-year contract at the marginal cost of diesel, committing customers to 25 years of diesel rates that was indexed to inflation of diesel. Borealis took this term sheet but was unable to find a partner to complete this $16 million dollar project. Our due diligence, through a third-party consultant, had the project cost at about $21 million, despite the federal government pledging $7 million towards the project.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

It’s a complex project, so we are not going to approve it and we are going to lose all these benefits.

Some say that NTPC is monopolistic. Perhaps this philosophy is based on some legitimate concerns that need to be addressed. For example, money that is tied up in the power diesel generation infrastructure, infrastructure that may be rendered obsolete when more economical and environmentally friendly power systems such as this are introduced to our communities.

What role does stranded infrastructure play in this and ongoing Power Corporation reluctance with this government’s endorsement to promote and support progressive third-party power generation projects, and how will the government deal with them? Mahsi.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, the Power Corporation is a Crown corporation, ostensibly arm’s length, but it has, in fact, evolved into a much closer working relationship, very similar to the working relationship that we have with the Housing Corporation. It is a vehicle of our social and economic policy and energy policy and sits at the table with other deputies. Comes to all the high level meetings with the chairman of the board and the president to look at how do we move on things like the expansion of hydro, how do we look at generation issues, handling things like the installation of the solar array in Simpson, the work in Colville Lake. It was referenced in my comments this morning, doing the wind mapping in places like Storm Hills between Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk. The Power Corporation is a very critical aspect of our energy policy in delivery in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I might add, Mr. Speaker, the most expensive power in the world is what this Power Corporation is producing, and this Minister is letting this go, passing up what other opportunities we have missed like this.

The Minister will be happy to learn that despite government failure and the best efforts of NTPC to stand and watch this exciting opportunity evaporate, Borealis GeoPower is still prepared to

move forward with this project without the federal subsidy.

My question is: Is this government now prepared to move forward and capitalize on this still available and valuable opportunity? Mahsi.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Of course, we are open to all alternative energy opportunities that are out there. I would point out that this project, two or three years ago, was projected to cost anywhere from $16 million to $20 million for 600 kilowatts, which is a very, very expensive price to pay. We had offered up a 25-year power purchase agreement. In addition to the cost to install, there were some very significant ongoing costs because of the high mineral content of the water. It would require ongoing scaling and potential drilling of additional holes and wells.

We would be more than willing to revisit this to see if there is any of the economics and dynamics that have changed. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated in my Member’s statement, Hay River needs dredging. I know the Minister of Transportation had federal meetings, including the meeting with the federal Minister of Transportation. Was Hay River dredging on the agenda?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Minister of Transportation, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Hay River dredging was not on the agenda because it was the meeting of the Ministers of Transportation and I didn’t have an opportunity to speak with her. But in any event, we should be talking to the Minister responsible for Fisheries and Oceans or the Minister responsible for Supply and Services, which is the Minister responsible for the Coast Guard. Thank you.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t think we have here in this House any of those Ministers, so the only Minister I can ask this question to is the Minister of Transportation.

I guess the question is: What is this government going to do to dredge the Hay River?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

We agree with the Member that dredging in the Hay River is essential to transportation of goods. We continue to urge the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. I haven’t engaged the Minister directly; however, the department has been doing some work with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, the federal department, and urging them to get the dredging done as we, too, see that as essential.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

I know some responsibilities that have been federal only, let’s say building new highways, have now become the responsibility of the GNWT. We’ve committed money to creating some of those new highways.

Is there a way that we can commit dollars to it to maybe move this project forward?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

The last time the federal government did spend money on the port was in 2012-13. We recognize that there appears to be an abandonment of that responsibility at this point. In order for me to include that item under the Department of Transportation business plan, again, I would have to go through the process here, the business planning process, and come to the Members to request that money be put into our business plan in order to dredge the port in Hay River.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister of Transportation commit to getting a meeting together of all the responsible federal Ministers to see that we can move this project forward in the future sooner than later?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

I’m more than willing to meet with the federal Minister responsible, although I can’t set his or her schedule, but I will have the department make contact with the Minister responsible to check to see if it is a possibility that we could have that discussion Minister to Minister or department head to department head to see if something can be done with the dredging in the Hay River port.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m just going to follow up with some questions to the Minister of Transportation in regard to the ferry operations in Inuvik.

I would just like to, first of all, ask the Minister of Transportation how many days was the ferry shut down when it was supposed to be open, or how many days was it operational during that freeze-up and breakup period?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d have to answer that question in two parts. First, with light vehicles, historically traffic for light vehicles was essentially shut down for almost a full month. That’s the historical data. Last year they were shut down for 19 days. Then vehicles up to 60,000, which is a threshold, I think, where the

majority of the supplies can get across the Mackenzie River, historically in the last several years the shutdown has been anywhere from 72 to 83 days. Last year the shutdown was 33 days.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

As I mentioned in my Member’s statement, just because the ferry is in the middle of the river and it’s moving at, like I said, a snail’s pace doesn’t mean that it’s operational, and it’s also a delay in terms of products and goods being transported to the community of Inuvik.

I’d like to ask the Minister of the department what is his department going to do to communicate the operation of the ferry and the hours that it’s operating and the time and length that it’s going to be taking off and arriving from one side to the other, and if it’s shut down, how is he going to communicate that to the business sector who are waiting on these goods?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

The department has done some debriefing meetings with the Town of Inuvik, the community of Fort McPherson, Inuvik Gas Ltd., people that provide the energy to the community. Internally, we know that we have dealings with the Power Corp and we try to have these meetings to debrief amongst each other and see what we can learn from what has occurred since the last season when we were trying to operate the ferry right up until the winter road was open.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

The Minister kind of got into my next question. We’ve had one year of the ferry operating, trying to operate here all season round. Now we’re putting in the winter road.

What is the department going to be doing differently from lessons learned from the first year, so we have a more efficient operating system so we get our goods and services to the residents and business owners of the community of Inuvik? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Probably the two biggest lessons learned were that we need to cut the ice sooner to get the ferry in before the ice hardens too much. That was a big lesson. The second lesson learned is we need to accelerate the construction of the ice road. Last year we were accelerating the construction of the ice road, but we need to add to that and accelerate the ice road even further.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The last question is in terms of any of these business owners who have products that might get ruined or be spoiled that have to stay on the other side of the river and can’t get to the community of Inuvik, does the Department of Transportation, who takes care of this infrastructure and operation, have a reimbursement program for who falls behind, whether it’s a contract or whether it’s in goods and services being ruined? Do they have a

reimbursement program for our small businesses that are affected when there is a delay in goods and services coming across the ferry crossing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

The Department of Transportation does not have that type of reimbursement program. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we embark yet again on another chapter of the territorial day shelter in Yellowknife, it is critical we have the right principles, standards, appropriate staff qualifications, appropriate service design and effective care practices for the success of the day shelter concept. My questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Speaker.

Admittedly, there’s no dispute that an NGO can offer a service or product at a much more reasonable cost than government. Therefore, it’s our duty as a government not to shortchange this process in any way and to make sure that we succeed in offering our territorial service.

Can the Minister provide to the House a proposed high level financial operational breakdown of the territorial day shelter in Yellowknife? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have signed a contract with the Council of Persons with Disabilities to provide the services for two years. The two-year contract is $619,400, which is just over $300,000 a year. We have also signed a two-year lease with the provider of the actual facility, which works out to $5,400 a month, which is about $64,800 a year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

I appreciate the Minister’s reply to that. It’s apparent, given the current budget, that this shelter is expected to perform only basic core functions during what we’ve been hinting as a potential reduced open for business environment. However, many, including this MLA, feel this shelter is lacking the funds needed to perform the life-changing programs associated with mental health and addictions, not to mention critical life skill programs required for society reintegration.

Can the Minister indicate to the House where the funding dollars are for this? Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Health and Social Services

The day shelter at this point in time is providing some basic services, basically a warm place for people to go as well as some referral functions. We had been talking with

the provider about having more opportunities for people to come into that particular facility and offer referrals and other services. The NWT Disabilities Council intends to expand their services to include a process for more referrals and management of the day shelter. They also intend to have some adult service workers scheduled for regular office hours come in and visit as well as some individuals from public health to come in and provide visits on a regular basis. Mr. Speaker, these people already work for the Government of the Northwest Territories. They already provide these services. It’s a matter of going to people who need those services as opposed to waiting for them to come to us. So we don’t need a whole lot more money to provide something we’re already providing. It’s a matter of getting the people to connect, and the day shelter is going to prove to be a location where we can connect. Thank you.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

This is where the Minister and our ideology differ. I know the Minister takes pride for doing what’s right for the residents of the Northwest Territories, and he did the honour of opening the new shelter this fall. However, it is clear, with the information that we have today, we are still lacking the required funds for a successful NWT day shelter facility.

Will this Minister commit to making sure we have in place solid targets, proper timelines and the proper funding dollars needed to deal with all levels of withdrawal management programs for our shelter residents? Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Health and Social Services

We have processes and programs in place in the Northwest Territories for individuals who are suffering from addictions. We will have an access point for individuals. Our staff will visit the day shelter on a regular basis and those individuals who are ready to take advantage of some of the programming we have will get that treatment. So, we do have a disagreement.

I believe we have many programs and services available. I believe the day shelter is a great access point, a great place to bring people together and share information. When those individuals are ready to take treatment, we are here to ensure that they get that treatment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Minister’s response. Unfortunately, history has shown this department has failed to publicly disclose the full operational cost for the shelter service nor has ever tabled a full cost accounting analysis.

Can the Minister commit to turn over a new leaf and agree to make an annual disclosure of full cost accounting of the Yellowknife Territorial Day Shelter? Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Health and Social Services

Mr. Speaker, we disclosed in the previous contract how much we had contracted for the services for the previous day shelter. The information of what we are spending on this day shelter is out and available, but as we move on, we would be happy to provide the Member with actual costs at the end of each fiscal year, as well as committee. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services if he can commit in helping residents complete the applications regarding residential scholarships. The deadline is fast approaching. Perhaps the government services officers, or GSOs, in communities can provide assistance, or perhaps the Minister knows of other appropriate employees who can step up and assist. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment has been coordinating working on this exact issue. I don’t have any specific details, but I will commit to having a conversation with the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and share that information with the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

I don’t know whether I should continue asking the Minister of Health and Social Services questions, but I’ll try. A significant portion of residential school survivors, at the federal level the Residential School Settlement Agreement has provided numerous remedies and forms of compensation.

What is this government, the GNWT, doing to build on these remedies? Is it providing direct support such as professional counselling to the thousands of NWT residents negatively affected by the residential school experience? Mahsi.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Health and Social Services

Once again, I will pass that information along or that question along to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and I will get a more fulsome response. At the same time, all residents of the Northwest Territories are able to receive the services we provide, which includes counselling, mental health and addictions services. We do have a number of contracts with different providers for individuals who have substance abuse challenges. Those services, all services, all services that are available in the

Northwest Territories are available to all residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

I believe in his role on the Social Envelope Committee of Cabinet, the current Health and Social Services Minister may be the appropriate Minister to answer this question. I would like to know if there’s an appetite, a political willingness for the territorial government to match the federal government’s $3,000 personal credit. A matching territorial credit would benefit anyone who doesn’t manage to meet their upcoming deadline. Or could it be used by people who want to collectively organize on the land healing activities. Mahsi.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Health and Social Services

I’m not familiar enough with that particular program of the dollars being provided by the federal government to say that we are committed to it. But what I will do for the Member is I will talk to the Members of the Social Envelope Committee and Cabinet. We will get ourselves informed and we’ll be in a better position to respond. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you. Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are addressed to the Minister of Health and Social Services and I’d like to follow up on my statement about the breast cancer navigator position. I mentioned in my statement that the position has been empty for quite some time.

I’d like to ask the Minister, first off, if he could give me an update on what the department is doing to fill that breast cancer navigator position at Stanton. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member indicated earlier, the position is no longer called a breast cancer patient navigator or a cancer patient navigator. The new one is, actually, the cancer care coordinator, which still has a key patient advocate role and we are currently trying to fill that position. We are going through some internal recruitment at Stanton to find somebody to take on that role. So we are recruiting as we speak. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for the update. I can appreciate that the coordinator will have an advocacy role, but I would stress that I believe that the navigator position is a lot closer to a patient than the cancer care coordinator is going to be. Just the very name “coordinator” removes it from the actual patient who is in a position to need the help.

One of the recommendations from the Breast Health/Breast Action Cancer Group was to expand the navigator position to the regions and to patients, patients with other cancers. So I’d like to ask the Minister if that is anywhere in the thinking of the Department of Health and Social Services.

Will we see navigators in the regions? Will we see navigators for patients other than breast cancer? Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you. The cancer care coordinator will focus on navigating the system and embracing the patient-centred care philosophy. It will help improve the patient’s experience and care outcomes and empower a patient towards things like self-management, harm reduction and health improvement and maintenance.

This is a patient advocate and they will consult with a variety of health care providers in partnership with the patient. They will assist in identifying needs within the cancer care continuum for the patient and for the patient’s caregivers as well as their family. The cancer care coordinator will also work closely with the individuals in care of the roles and responsibilities. So, this is clearly an advocate position.

We do work closely with the Breast Health/Breast Cancer Action Group and the Aboriginal health and community wellness division has been doing a number of things with respect to the recommendations that have come forward from that group as well as other groups, not just them.

We aren’t, at this point in time, planning to put cancer care coordinators in every region, but we are looking at expanding the role of this particular one to be more than just breast health, and from there we’ll be able to make some more evidence-based decisions on whether this is something that is indeed needed throughout the territory. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks again to the Minister. The Minister mentioned the report and the 18 recommendations in the report and that they are doing some work on it. There are certainly several of them which I want to highlight. One I did already, but number two was to develop a standardized cancer care process, number seven, establish policies, protocols and mechanisms to ensure there’s good coordination and information flow among professionals, develop and implement breast cancer care after-care, which is something that we need in many different situations, and review the escort policy, which certainly Members have a very large interest in getting revised.

So, to the Minister, if they’re looking at this report from the Breast Health/Breast Cancer Action Group, can he tell me, have they responded to the action group on these 18 recommendations, and if

so, is there a response to that report which could be available to Members and the public? Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you. Cancer is obviously a big deal in the Northwest Territories. It is one of the leading causes of death in the Northwest Territories and to that end we are currently developing an NWT Cancer Strategy, which does incorporate input from many different groups, including the group that the Member has already referenced today. We’re also working with Aboriginal governments, we’re working with the individual health authorities, we’re working with elders and non-government organizations, communities, as well as cancer survivors. This isn’t just breast cancer. This is a number of the different cancers that people in the Northwest Territories experience. So we are taking all that data and we are developing an NWT Cancer Strategy. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Minister I would suggest since he didn’t say that they have replied to the report from the Breast Cancer Action Group I would take that as a no.

My last question is my usual time question. I’d like to ask the Minister when can we expect to have this cancer coordinator position filled. Thank you.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

The Aboriginal Health and Community Wellness staff members are working with the group, the Breast Health/Breast Cancer Action Group that the Member has mentioned and they’ve been having continued dialogue. So there has been some conversations both ways. We are hoping to have the cancer care coordinator position filled in the immediate future, but it’s hard to say for sure whether we’ll find somebody. We are currently staffing. The staffing process usually takes a month or two. We’re hoping to have it filled within that period, but we have had problems staffing similar positions in the past. So I’d hate to give a hard and fast date, but we expect it to be soon. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have questions for the Minister of ITI. As I mentioned in my Member’s statement, it’s been a year and a half now since a lot of my constituents were flooded out in the spring of 2013. I also mentioned that we had a few cabins that floated down the river, of which none of those applicants were approved for their funding.

So I’d like to ask the Minister, out of the total number of applications filed in the spring of 2013, why was there only two applications that were approved. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. The Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just received another letter from one of the Member’s constituents regarding the flood of ’13 and looking for compensation. I’ve made a commitment previously to the Member that we would review those applications for assistance. Back in ’13, I must first off state that allocated to this fund is $15,000. Both in the year ’11-12 and ’12-13 we had expenditures there of approximately $80,000 in each of those years. So it was heavily subscribed, oversubscribed, if you will, and the department had to find the funds elsewhere.

As to the reason why claims weren’t initially accepted, it would be because they did not hit the criteria that is put there in place for people to apply to the program and get the funding that’s available. That’s to a maximum of $4,500 per applicant, and again, I’d made a commitment to the Member that we will work with his constituents to try to see if there’s a way that we can get them some assistance. Thank you.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. That brings me to my next question. When was this policy put in place for the compensation applications? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you. I’d have to go back and see when the policy was developed surrounding the funding here. To my knowledge, it’s been in place for some time. That amount of $15,000 has been static going back at least to ’78. So we’d certainly have to go back and find the genesis of that for the Member, and I commit to getting that information to the Member. Thank you.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I’d also like to ask the Minister what type of education or advertisement does his department do to ensure harvesters are tracking what they sell from the harvest. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. A different line of questioning, but I’ll allow the Minister to respond if he chooses.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. For that reply, I’d have to defer to the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources on that. Of course, ENR signs off applications for consideration under the HTC program and they also validate the claim and the claimants as well. So we’d have to work with ENR on that response for the Member. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The reason I asked that question was, as I mentioned, in the criteria it’s 25 percent of what you harvest is what is required and that’s what the Minister was referring to.

So I’d like to ask the Minister, is the Minister open to reviewing and making changes to the 25 percent that is needed to qualify for the compensation application? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I believe I have made a commitment in the past to have a look at this, and again today I let the Member know that we are willing to take a look at this. It would have to be done in conjunction with ENR, and we’ll make that commitment to have a look at the program and funding criteria. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.Last week we had a fire in Colville Lake. A man’s house burnt down and he lost everything. There isn’t a fire truck in Colville Lake, per se, and they used the water truck to try to put the fire out there. Just recently I heard that there’s an elderly man in Fort Good Hope who just lost his house to a fire with the inadequacy of a stable, reliable fire department there.

I want to ask the Minister of MACA in his capacity as the Minister, is this something that he could look at with the issue of the whole fire reliability in the fire department that are working in the Sahtu region, to ensure that the hamlets, the communities, do have a stable, reliable fire department so that people could feel somewhat safe in their small communities?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.We have our assistant fire marshals that are stationed in every region, and part of their duties is to go out to the communities to ensure that they have adequate training. If the community requires training or requests training, then our folks can go in there and assist them with that. They can help them identify the types of equipment that they may need. All the communities are funded so that they are able to purchase equipment if they have a need for it.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I know some of the communities in the Sahtu certainly have their fire equipment and their volunteers in place, and they’re on stand-by, of course; they’re doing other jobs in the community.

I want to ask specifically about two communities, Colville Lake, which I talked to the chief last week as to their need to get some assistance from the department to look at a fire truck in that community because they no longer feel that there’s adequate equipment in Colville Lake.

Now, in Fort Good Hope, according to the CBC reports – I haven’t checked it out myself personally – there seems to be a lack of volunteers, or a stable, reliable volunteer fire service there. This is why the old elder’s house burnt down.

So I want to ask the Minister if he could ask his fire marshals, fire division, to ensure on a quarterly basis or a monthly basis that there are fire department volunteer members set up and ready to go in these communities.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We would like to see a good, strong volunteer fire department in every community, and the key word is “volunteer.” In every community they have to rely on the volunteers. Most communities have a fairly healthy volunteer fire department.

Once they have the volunteers or the volunteers identified, then we can work with the community as far as training goes and help them identify some of the equipment that they may need. So, we would like the communities to take the initiative to get their volunteers out, and then will work with them to ensure that there is some training that’s available to them and they’re also made aware of what types of equipment they may need.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

The communities certainly volunteer their time in some of the Sahtu communities. I guess I’m looking at Fort Good Hope and Colville Lake, if the government or the fire division can take the initiative to ask the communities to come in, look at the volunteers, see if the equipment is up to date. You have the volunteers, the training there, would like to come in. Sometimes the government has to take the initiative on these specific essential services for our communities.

I am asking if the Minister can have a discussion with his fire division and say we need to get into these communities and see what is available and how can we assist them so that houses need not be burnt down in the Sahtu anymore.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We would like nothing more than to have all our fire departments trained and adequately equipped to deal with fires so we don’t have situations like we just recently had in Colville Lake and Fort Good Hope. However, if we were to come in and say we are running a course here and we want you, you and you to volunteer, then we’re basically dictating to them how their community is run. If they come forward and say we have some volunteers, we are interested in this training, we would love to come into the community

to ensure that the community is trained and are aware of what types of equipment they would need. So I think this is an issue that is going to take partnership between communities in the Sahtu and our assistant fire marshal. We will do what we can to ensure that they have all the training that they need. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are some provisions and some programs within government that come into the communities and offer training programs. Minister, I think that’s what I’m asking if you could offer, take the initiative from the fire department, say we would like to come into Fort Good Hope, come into Colville Lake on one of the perfect opportunity dates. Because in Colville Lake, right now they’re all excited because trapping season is here.

When is the most beneficial time to come into the communities of Fort Good Hope and Colville Lake? We’d like to offer these training initiatives. You let us know and then we can work in partnership. I think that is the route that I am looking for from the leadership from this Minister, to ensure people in the Sahtu that there will be reliable firefighters in Fort Good Hope and Colville Lake so that no more houses can be burnt down in those communities.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, that’s something we can work on. We can work with the communities and say that we would like to come in at a certain time, offer some education on fighting fires and potentially a course. So, we will work with the communities and see if we can make that happen. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We could talk about problems with housing and who it affects until the cows come home, as they say, but we clearly know it affects seniors, new families. It affects large and small communities in different ways, but equally in the sense of it’s a problem.

Mr. Speaker, we could talk about suitability of houses and certainly core needs. We can also talk about the vitality of the community being destroyed as the population leaves without housing options. I’ve cited lots of examples out there, so let’s start with one of the most important questions on this particular issue.

How many new houses are going to be built in this next fiscal year in the Northwest Territories? Let’s start with that.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister of Housing, Mr. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We all recognize that housing is a big concern across the Northwest Territories, and in working with the Legislative Assembly, I think the Housing Corporation has done a fairly good job in trying to address all the concerns that are out there.

To the Member’s question, we have… Well, this past year alone we have 46 public housing units, replacement units; we have six new housing units; we have a couple of seniors units – three, actually, seniors units that are being built – then we have 29 new market housing initiatives where we are putting 29 units into communities across the Northwest Territories. We also have our modernization and improvement project of our public housing stock, about 198 units that we are doing this year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I appreciate the answer from the Minister. So, we are talking approximately, if I got his numbers correctly as I wrote them down, we are talking about 38 new houses in the Northwest Territories that will change the market in a positive way for Northerners. It doesn’t matter if you live in Yellowknife, you have affordability issues, you have suitability issues here; it doesn’t matter if you live in Paulatuk, the issues are the same. People are struggling for good options.

How does the Minister justify, on average, slightly more than one new house per community in the Northwest Territories as addressing the problem? I get it that they build them one at a time, but we are losing options of three or four. We are not keeping pace with the need.

So the fact is: How is the Minister justifying building only one house per community as a solution? Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, I feel we’re providing more than one house per community. We looked at the community needs survey that was done. We tried to identify some of the highest needs in regions and communities, and we target our investment into those communities. Also, with the market housing initiatives, we’ve had meetings with the NWT Teachers’ Association that identified some of their more challenged communities, so we have tried to target some of our units into those communities.

We have 100 units over the next three years that are going to the communities. That’s just market housing communities. That’s not including the housing investment. I think we are doing a really good job in addressing a lot of the concern from the small communities.

Of course, we are challenged, as this Assembly knows, with the declining CMHC funding and it is hindering our ability to build new public housing

units, so we’re having to replace a lot of units. More and more people are getting into homeownership through some of our homeownership programs, so we make targeted investments. One community may not get anything for a while, but their turn will come up and they’ll get their fair share of infrastructure. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

The Minister is actually getting ahead of me on the next question, which talks about a community may not get any infrastructure whatsoever for many years to come. When he says their fair share of infrastructure, that only might mean one or two houses new to that community. It is a positive effect. Also, to be fair to the Minister, very quickly, he said that we are doing a little better than one per community. He’s right; we’re doing 1.15 house per community across the Northwest Territories. That is 38 houses in 33 communities. Let’s give him the credit he deserves by all means, by saying he is building 1.15 house.

We haven’t solved the non-market community initiative problem. We have several communities that have no housing market. Tell me how many houses he plans to build in the Housing Corp this coming year, and by golly, please be more than one per community.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

If you look at the units we provide, or if you look at the housing we provide, and if you look over the number of years, we have 3,100 units; we have 23 public housing units that we have on the ground, plus our Market Housing Initiative and our other units that we provide.

I attended a conference that spoke to Aboriginal housing down south – a couple of Members actually came with me – and I think the Northwest Territories is doing a fantastic job providing houses. We heard the story of one house every 15 years for a particular community down south, so I think we’ve done a good job in recognizing and addressing the housing needs across the Northwest Territories.

Could there be improvements? Of course there can, and that’s what we are working on with this Legislative Assembly. We are planning and we are going to be debating that in the upcoming capital budget. I think our budget for this particular year is $36 million, again, invested strategically. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Frankly, I just can’t figure out how the Minister is proud of the job he’s doing and how he keeps saying we are doing a good job when he only builds one house per community per year on average. Those statistics speak for themselves. We’ll let Northerners judge the Minister, Mr. Speaker.

In summary, 19 percent of the houses in the Northwest Territories are in core need; 31.6 percent are houses with problems of some sort. Declining funding is a terrible thing, but it is a terrible crutch to lean on that as, oh my goodness, the funding has been drying up. We have seen inaction year after year on this particular problem.

I challenge the Minister to answer this question: How is the Minister going to increase housing construction in communities for new housing as a solution going forward? Frankly, one house at a time is not solving the need. Do something today. Be bold. We need bold action.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

It’s actually 1.15, not one, as the Member pointed out before. But we’ve made significant investment in the last number of years, and I would like the Northwest Territories to be the judge of the work that the NWT Housing Corporation is doing, because they’re seeing it on the front lines. They’re seeing with the new rent scale how you go from a $4,600 full economic rent to no more than $1,600, and somebody’s rent goes from $1,200, because they’re working, to $564. I challenge anybody to say that the NWT Housing Corporation is not addressing the needs of housing across the Northwest Territories, and we’ll continue, in the fiscal environment we’re in, to try and improve the housing in the Northwest Territories.

I think, in the last number of years, again, with the working of the Legislative Assembly, the NWT Housing Corporation has done a very good job, and I would like people out there to be the judge of that. We hear a lot of comments and the housing concerns that we get from residents across the Northwest Territories. We still get a lot, but not as much as there used to be. For the most part, people are fairly pleased with services that are being provided.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of the Environment. Just a couple of questions on the cost of the Giant Mine Remediation Project now that the environmental assessment has finally been completed.

On August 11, 2014, the responsible Ministers, including our Minister, finally approved the measures coming out of the review report, and fundamental changes were made including, for example, research and development into a more permanent solution and a community-based oversight body. Those are great things, and I thank the Minister for any role he had in getting that done.

My couple of questions, first of all, given these fundamental changes, can the Minister tell the House what the new total costs are for this project?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this point there are no new costs attributed to the project. We’re looking at managing the project with the existing funds. As the work and the new direction of the recommendations are acted on, then we’ll be looking at it to see if there are any further costs that haven’t already been anticipated.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That would be a feat, and I’ll ask the Minister to keep us updated on that.

I guess my last question is: Will there be any new costs for GNWT as a result of the final assessment?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

At this point, not that I’m aware of.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have questions today for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, and it’s kind of following up on questions that I asked the Minister of Transportation in terms of subsidizing some of our small business.

Obviously, it is Small Business Week here in the Northwest Territories. I’d just like to ask the Minister, does the department subsidize any costs specifically due to the low water levels that we had on the Mackenzie River this summer? Is there any subsidy for the small businesses who might have been delayed in doing their contracts, getting work done, because they didn’t get the supplies that they needed, or is there any subsidy for any of these products that might have been spoiled or ruined because they couldn’t get up the river in time?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the best of my knowledge, I am not aware of any subsidy programs for businesses as it relates to low water levels on the Mackenzie River and the shipment of goods into the Mackenzie Delta.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

It was very unfortunate that NTCL couldn’t make one of their last trips of the Mackenzie and provide all these goods and

products to the small businesses and to the communities.

In terms of the small businesses in the community of Inuvik, are there any subsidies available for businesses where the products can’t get across the Mackenzie River and the business has to fly it in? Are there any subsidies to offset those flying costs for some of these small businesses in Inuvik?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I think businesses and transportation companies would carry the requisite insurance in the case that goods were spoiled or couldn’t make it there. I know in previous experience when we didn’t have a bridge across the Mackenzie River and we were in business here in Yellowknife, flying goods in was at the expense of the business. There weren’t subsidies in place to defer that cost. Businesses just had to endure those extra costs for the short period of time where there wasn’t the access that was there before.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Our small businesses provide an integral part into our communities and our economy, and the Minister did mention that in his statement.

With some of the things that are happening within the territory and with the weather and some of our infrastructure that we’re creating and causing some delays and challenges to get products to the communities, would the Minister look at some kind of subsidy for small business that has to endure some of these extra costs when such things happen such as low water levels, the road closures or ferries not operating on the basis that we’re telling them that they’re supposed to be operating? Would the Minister look at creating some type of subsidy for the small businesses?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

This is the first time the question has been brought to me in this venue. It is something that I can take back. I think there are a couple of other departments that we should consult with, and certainly, we could have a look at it. That’s not to say it will happen, but it’s something that I think we can look at.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The time for question period time has expired. Item 8, written questions. Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, who was appointed by Cabinet as regulator of the oil and gas operations in the Northwest Territories effective April 1, 2014.

1. At times the regulator is privy to information that

would not be in the public’s best interest to

disclose or debate, such as a company’s net profit projections. What mechanisms are in place to ensure that information disclosure will respect the public’s best interest and not place any corporation, agency or other organization at a significant disadvantage, and how will this information be dealt with in response to questions and debates within the House?

2.

How will corporate involvement and development of government programs and strategies, such as the Mineral Development and Economic Opportunities Strategy, continue under this new regime?

3. How will decisions be reached in situations

where the views of departmental advisors differ widely from the oil and gas committee or the Members of the Legislative Assembly?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committee on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Minister Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to table the “Economic Opportunities Implementation Plan.”

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Minister of the Power Corporation, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following two documents, entitled “Northwest Territories Power Corporation –

Empowering Communities, 2014 Annual Report;” and “Northwest Territories Hydro Corporation Annual Report, 2014.”

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first

reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 115-17(5), Northwest Territories Capital Estimates 2015-2016, Finance, Human Resources, Education, Culture and Employment, NWT Housing, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order. The Speaker has listed some of the things that are before Committee of the Whole today. What is the wish of committee? Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam. Chair. We would like to deal with Tabled Document 115-17(5), Northwest Territories Capital Estimates 2015-2016.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, committee. We will commence after a brief break.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I will call committee back to order. We are dealing with Tabled Document 115-17(5), and we are going to start off with the Department of Finance. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance if he would like to bring witnesses into the Chamber.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed, thank you. I will ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort witnesses to the table.

For the record, Mr. Miltenberger, could you please introduce your witness.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have with me the deputy minister of Finance, Mr. Mike Aumond. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. We’ve made general comments. Could I direct Members’ attention to page 27, which we will stand down initially. Actually, we’ll go first to general comments. General comments on the Department of Finance. Any general comments? Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Just a quick comment, Madam Chair. The Department of Finance – I’ll just look at my notes here – has indicated there are ways we can stop the leakage of the Northwest Territories

economy with regards to the policies and our programs.

Is there some movement with regard to how we put some of the plugs in the holes that we have with our government, so we can keep the most money as possible from leaving the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. We’ve initiated discussions through the initiative of trying to increase the population by 2,000 in the next five years with industry, the mines, in particular the Chamber of Mines plus the Chamber of Commerce, to look at how we minimize the fly-in/fly-out population and look at what opportunities are there as they come up with an expedited immigrant application process, which is going to come into play here in the new year.

We’ve also done a lot of work internally as a department to move to fill our very new vacancies we have both inside and outside of Yellowknife. We’re going to be having a major Energy Charrette that’s going to look seriously at generation of electricity, energy and how we lower the costs of what people pay for power.

In a whole host of areas, we are at work on dealing with the issue the Member has referenced. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thanks to the Minister. We certainly have some challenges as an Assembly with attracting the numbers of people we want to have live in the Northwest Territories, considering the environmental scan of the whole government, the economic conditions, the employment, the cost of living in the North and a whole bunch of other social factors that come into play here. I read the document and the Northwest Territories certainly has its work cut out for us. So I guess we’re trying to find that balance with attracting new investment into the North and at the same time sustaining our pristine water and land, and something’s got to give here in regard to meeting our objectives of creating more wealth and weaning off federal government dependency. That will be awhile, but 80 to 90 percent of our dependency is still on the federal government. That won’t happen in this Assembly. So how do we create that freedom, I guess they call it. We could have that freedom from the federal government. I’m not too sure that will be coming very soon.

So this is what I’m looking at, because right now we’re at the whim and beck and call of the federal government in regard to the type of lifestyle we live here in the North because they’re the ones that are holding the strings to our economics and basically giving us a little bit of leeway through devolution. The territorial funding formula is actually decreasing

because people are leaving the Northwest Territories. Yet, at the same time, we want to attract X number of people to live in the Northwest Territories and we’re just dealing right now with the high cost of living here. It’s something that’s been on all the Members’ minds at some point or another as to how do we create a stable Northwest Territories, meet our objectives, meet the high demands of our small communities, communities that do not have some of the essential services that should be in our communities, but because of the finances and the situation we’re in it doesn’t allow us to do so.

We’re doing our best. The Minister has come back with a report on the sustainability and the strength of how we handle our money with the triple A ratings that we are given. That’s a credit to the Minister and his staff for maintaining that. It sort of gives confidence to the investment world and the economic world that the Northwest Territories is fiscally sound and it’s on its way to handling its debt, it’s revenue expenditure.

On this side of the table we know that we’re always asking for more, yet we are told that we have to live within our means and live with less. We’re going to do more, but live with less. That’s kind of like being the theme here. I think we’re tired of living with less when we want to do more. We have the means and I guess that’s something that I’ve been thinking about for a while.

So those are my comments for the Department of Finance.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Every Assembly builds off of the work of the previous Assembly, and this is my fifth Assembly, as it is for you, Madam Chair, and this is a theme that is consistent through every government and Assembly I’ve been part of, and here we are today, the circumstance has changed and there are many things that we don’t control, but we are struggling to manage the money, manage our expenditures versus the revenues, the cost of living issues, the population issues, the quality of life issues. If you look at it just at the period of time we’re now in, we tend to get depressed that there’s not enough money, there’s not enough stuff happening, but if you stretch it out over 20 years and you look back and you look at how far we’ve advanced in almost every sector across the territory and all the communities, doesn’t matter if it’s housing or technology or education, the roads, the infrastructure, the amount of jobs, our people that are graduating, we have made progress, but it’s not without its challenges. We’re currently struggling to stabilize our population. We have enormous assets, but people are one that we need more of. So we’ve started the specific initiatives that we think will help us cope with that and we expect that they’ll unfold here over the coming months and into the next

government as we deal with some of those broader issues. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Next under general comments I have Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to provide some general comments in terms of what we have before us. It has to be acknowledged that in the NWT we’re very dependent on our natural resources to take us through the hard times, and this far we’ve been very fortunate in terms of the mineral industry playing a very vital role in ensuring that we have operating diamond mines to create employment and business and help the NWT overall in terms of the GDP, our gross domestic product, in terms of trying to at least invigorate the economy in the NWT.

That being said, this government is constrained in terms of the total operating budget of $1.6 billion and there are challenges that remain in the communities. The cost of living is fairly high. At the same time, the social issues remain fairly challenging, as well, and in terms of the cost of living, whom does it really affect. It’s the people that are on fixed incomes. At the same time, maybe it could be elders, seniors that live on fixed incomes. Sometimes it’s people that are disabled. At the same time, it could be single parents that are trying to put food on their tables for their kids.

So it’s a challenge and we have to acknowledge that we have to try to put our best foot forward in terms of meeting the challenges of at least ensuring that the needs of the residents of the NWT are being met and more so in the communities.

In the riding that I serve, and more likely it’s common throughout the NWT, there’s potential, and this government, through its departments, has to ensure that we work with communities to try to come up with the best possible scenarios of creating opportunities for businesses and, at the same time, trying to invigorate the economy. Such are those of the communities that I serve. I take pride in terms of the geographic location of our communities. They’re the first communities that you come across when you drive up north by vehicle, and I’ve always believed the first impression is vitally important. So, the communities that have campgrounds, it’s vital that we have the services, pristine, at the same time, and a very good service that people can identify and at least keep coming back to.

The biggest thing for the riding that I serve, too, is the transportation. This budget, the biggest sector is transportation, the highways. In some respects we’re quite fortunate that we live on the main artery from Enterprise all the way to Kakisa, to Fort Providence and Yellowknife and this summer we experienced what happens if we experience a

natural disaster. The fires closed down the highway and the goods of transportation were not being transported to Yellowknife. So there’s a need to perhaps look at contingencies, and with the reality of climate change, these kinds of incidents or natural events could be quite common as we go into the future.

Just generally, there are some projects that are coming down. So that’s good to see, but more could be done. But at the same time, we have to acknowledge that there’s a limited resource in terms of dollars that the government carries. At the same time, there’s a high rate of expectation on what kind of services this kind of government can provide, especially for the communities that it serves and the small communities that matter. It’s essential that we continue to meet the needs of our residents as best we can. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the Member’s comments in his closing statement about working to serve the residents the best we can. As we sit here today with our capital budget, we are of course making the case that SAM cash management module and the SAM strategic sourcing and supplier contract management module will in fact help us do a better job at our part of managing the affairs of the government. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. General Comments. Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. For me, this department here, even though we are talking about capital estimates, this department here is literally the lynchpin for the way we do business in the Northwest Territories. So, again, this department has a broader aspect than just the $200,000 that we have before committee.

Madam Chair, we have been told time and time again, devolution will reduce reliance on federal funding, and yet I kept saying show me the evidence where this occurs, and to this day the department has never been able to show how and by what measure those broad statements we continue to hear on devolution money, how this will affect the budget and, more importantly, the money we have for capital expenditures.

On the token of expenditure growth, according to some of the numbers I have before me, this growth is only a little over 1 percent, where, according to some of the numbers here, we were seeing forced growth at probably just a little over 2 percent.

If we figure in the inflation rate of Canada – the most recent number that we can confirm is just a little over 1.3 percent – really what we are seeing is just a slight reduction of spending in real terms. So I

think that what we have here is we have a scaled back budget, when we continue to hear from the government that we need to invest in our infrastructure deficit. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen that term come up, but if we are truly wanting to invest in our infrastructure deficit, have a very funny way of showing that.

What I mean by that is that we are seeing the resurgence of our P3 initiatives. I fear that P3 is going to be the new terminology of the Northwest Territories. In fact, I am really fearful that the term “P3” will represent and be defined as NWT as we move forward, and I am really concerned that the management framework around P3s is going to be very detrimental to our cash management and our debt management in years to come.

Madam Chair, I always like to bring these types of talks back to a point of reference. Now, the point of reference is always the public accounts, the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants. It was stated, “A Government’s financial health should be measured in terms of its sustainability, flexibility and vulnerability.” Those are three very large and key aspects. I ask this committee, and I ask this department and this Minister, how well are we dealing on those three categories, on sustainability, flexibility and vulnerability? I think these measures are clearly indicative of we are in trouble. I want to stress that. I think we are in bigger trouble than we are led to believe. GNWT continues to wane this vulnerability of trouble and claim that we have this under control. They’ll throw a lot of pie charts and graphs, and they will talk about how great we are doing: we are third best in Canada here in debt to equity and debt to GDP. These are great by design, but as I said in my Member’s statement the other day, by whose design? Because these clearly aren’t the same definitions and measurables that I am seeing across Canada. These are clearly not the same definitions and variables that are used by organizations like the Fraser Institute. We are not in the best matrix of Canada in terms of performance, and somehow we are leaning in that direction. I don’t want to cry wolf, Madam Chair. I’m using statistical, actual numbers to say we are in trouble.

While we’ve heard in terms of how to deal with our shortfall in revenues, let’s increase the population by 2,000 by 2019, well, how are we doing with that Madam Chair? How are we doing with that? We have decreased in the last year by 218 people, but more importantly, what have we lost? The other number that we don’t talk about, in terms of loss during that period, is how many people we have lost in the workforce during that same period. We lost a net 718 people. That is Stats Canada and these are our own stats. So our in-migration/out-migration has dropped even more than anticipated, and these are the people that are paying taxes. These are our men and women who are applying for jobs we have lost. There has been a huge brain

drain, and I am greatly concerned that no one wants to talk about our out-migration rate. We are looking at the overpopulation, which is fine because there is a taxation number attached to that and I can clearly understand that, but I am concerned that really our only true tactic in dealing with what I call a scaled back budget, literally orchestrated and hand smithed by the Department of Finance with the departments is scaled back.

When you look at the finances keen on seeing investments spent in the public infrastructure, you know it’s disheartening when you look at this budget as a whole. There is no new increase in community investment and capital. That number is stuck at $28 million, if you look at this budget. So, truly, if you are trying to tell the people that we want to invest in infrastructure in our communities, my god, Madam Chair, we don’t hear that often enough in this House. Every community member here speaks about their needs, and here is an opportunity for this Cabinet, this government, this department, this Minister to address the shortfalls of communities. This is stuck at $28 million. So, clearly, I think that this is disheartening to see, again they’re talking out one side of their mouth and doing something else completely opposite.

But moreover, Madam Chair, and I will go to my last point, what are the guiding principles of this department? What are the guiding principles of this Minister when it comes to our fiscal policy? It has to be evidence based. I think we can all agree on that; it has to be evidence based. There has to be a framework on how this government and this department and Minister govern themselves and conduct themselves with our budget and with our investment.

What do they use is a Macroeconomic Policy Framework. That is their guiding light. Well, that framework is over seven years old. This was developed well before devolution and the recession of 2008. So, I think we would all agree, a lot has changed since devolution. I think a lot will agree that a lot has changed since 2008 when it comes to global finances and our finances in general. If we are being told that this is what is going to be the evidence base for growing and diversifying our economy in infrastructure purchasing, I’m concerned.

How can you do measurable investments, strategic investments with public dollars, with tax dollars, with a policy that is over seven years old? How do you effectively measure initiatives with such an irrelevant policy framework?

I will have, obviously, details as we continue this venture, and again, I don’t want to sound negative completely in my discourse, but I’m concerned, and that should be loud and clear and being resonated to the department and to the Minister. I am concerned, and until I hear otherwise, you will

continue to hear me indicate where I think we need to do better, and I will continue to do my job as a Regular Member to show that this department, this government is in trouble. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’ll agree with the Member; he’s not totally negative. But the reality is, we are going into our fourth capital plan. We are going to be, in a few months, back before the Assembly with our final O and M budget. A lot of the concerns here today, even though we’re here to talk capital, are much broader, focused on the programs and services.

The government runs… It’s a business, a complex business, on the clear guidelines and principles that govern all public government institutions: accounting, reporting and public accounts and transparency. We have a very intense system with the MLAs that lay out the priorities. We have the debates about the budgets; we have approved three. At every budget address, I will concur with the Member, we have pointed out the fact that our O and M pressures are outstripping our ability to keep funding them.

We’ve held firm in terms of not putting any new money that we would get from resource revenue sharing in the programs and services because those revenues are very volatile. We need to beef up our debt repayment, the Heritage Fund and our infrastructure, and we already spend $1.6 billion out of $1.8 billion on programs and services. No matter how you want to look at it, the reality is, in spite of those challenges, the finances of this government pass muster from the Auditor General, from the finance people, from the credit rating agencies, from this House where we pass our budgets. Yes, the day is coming again and continues to come, but we’re going to, as we look at controlling our revenues and balancing those with our expenditures, the upward pressure on our O and M costs are absolutely consistently there, unrelenting and continue to drive a lot of our thinking.

As we lay out in our fiscal strategy, and we’ve said it again this time, and we’ve said it all my seven years now as Finance Minister, that this is a path that has a long-term trajectory that’s not sustainable unless we manage to have more control over our program spending. I agree with the Member on that. But there is very significant demand in the Northwest Territories and in this House, on the one hand, to manage our money and to do all these good things and grow the population, spend more money but manage your money, and be all things to all people, and it’s a balancing act that I think, for the most part, we as a government and a Legislature have managed to do.

A lot of things have changed since 2008, 2007, and we have yet to recover from that dramatic economic

shock, and we’re working on that. I don’t recollect devolution ever being held out as a financial panacea where all of a sudden we’d have no more fiscal problems. What it was is we would finally have control over decision-making on things that matter to us, that we would take over some of the functions of government, which we’ve done, and that we would take the amount of resource revenues, which we’ve always known were modest, and we would put those to use. I would suggest to you that there have been those benefits, because without that resource revenue sharing, we wouldn’t have any very significant investments in our Heritage Fund, for example, and we will put the money to use into our capital plan, $315 million for the year coming, which is not an unsubstantial amount of money of anybody’s measure.

We are managing to do an enormous amount of work. We’re doing the Tuk-Inuvik highway. We’re going to do the fibre optic link. We’re going to do the Stanton Hospital, $315 million. Yes, there are challenges to that, but as a government, what is our responsibility? Is it to invest in infrastructure or not? Is it to invest in critical economic infrastructure? Critical social infrastructure? Do we take on a mortgage of sort, a manageable mortgage to do that? There’s nobody in this room that I don’t think has ever managed to make it through their life without taking on a mortgage for critical big cost items. It’s how we’re supposed to do this business. It’s the only way we can.

I appreciate the stern advice and concern from the Member, and we’ll continue to do the work that we need to make sure that we can maintain our Aa1 credit rating and that we have the money we need to leave the coffers for the 18th Assembly in a

situation where they have some flexibility.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. General comments. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I don’t disagree with many of the concerns that are being brought up, but I am having a hard time shoe horning such comments into a discussion of the capital budget with the Department of Finance given that we will have these discussions in another forum at another time, and we can’t make any decisions here. Although I do have to reply to a couple of things that I heard the Minister say.

MLAs that lay out the priorities, certainly MLAs don’t lay out the priorities during this government. Albeit, it’s probably because this side of the House has chosen not to use their power.

This is the fourth year budget and the significance to that is we’re leaving some pretty horrible stuff for the 18th Assembly to try and deal with. The Minister

said controlling our revenues. I’m not sure he meant to say that. We certainly don’t control our revenues. We do very little to increase our

revenues, in fact, despite Members pointing out opportunities there. The Minister, however, does, when all is said and done, admit that it is not sustainable, and that’s, I think, where the concerns are coming from. But like they say, that’s another discussion.

Getting to the Department of Finance capital budget here, I see our estimate last year was $450,000 and the revised estimates, $1.031 million. That sounds like quite a divergence at 115 percent, and who knows if it’s over yet. Then a major reduction to $210,000 this year. Maybe I can just get an explanation of what’s going on there.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. What we have before us today was we have a very modest capital budget of $210,000. Last year it was higher, but I’ll ask the deputy if he can speak to that in a little more detail. I can provide the detail for committee about the discrepancy from the actuals, the capital estimate to the revised estimates, but I don’t have that detail here with me.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

What about the substantial drop from last year to the proposed year here? Do we have any information handy on that?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

It reflects that fact that last year we had more capital projects on the go in Finance and this year we have dialed it back to the $210,000 that is here before the House for the two modules that we’ve talked about. I can also get the specifics of last year’s capital, if the Member wishes, and provide that to committee.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That’s all I had. I’ll look forward to that detail. It was the increase from the $450,000 to $1.031 million. A substantial increase there, 115 percent, roughly. I appreciate the Minister’s offer. That’s all I had for general comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Continuing on with general comments, I have Mrs. Groenewegen.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll be very brief. There’s been reference made in these general comments and this discussion to our revenues by way of our transfer payment, which is somewhat based on the population of our territory and our government’s desire to attract more people to live in the Northwest Territories to curb our declining population. My question, I guess, and comment for the Minister is, if you were listening to the debate and discussion amongst us about this at any given time, you would think that every potential job in the Northwest Territories was a Government of the Northwest Territories job. You would think that every job here was a public sector job. You wouldn’t think there was even a private sector here.

Also, when we’re talking about students and education and trying to flag students that are out taking education that might match up with positons or labour market shortages here in the Northwest Territories, again, it seems like all we talk about is Government of the Northwest Territories or public service positions.

I would like to ask the Minister, where does this government’s initiative to grow our population, where does it intersect or interface with the needs of the private sector?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s a shared interest. The private sector, as well, is struggling, in many cases, to find staff and people and get people to stay to avoid having fly-in/fly-out, which is why we’ve started this working group with the Chamber of Mines, the Chamber of Commerce and the three diamond mines to talk about what can we do together, how do we work together. Things like going south jointly to go to trades fairs and those types of things. We’re working with our own departments, Education for example, to really take advantage of this Express Entry Program that the federal government is going to be rolling out in January where businesses, government, whoever has a need, can reach into work from another country, from another place and say I need an accountant or engineer or whatever professional or technical person you need and I will give them a job here, that there’s going to be a program that’s going to give within six months, apparently you should be able to get these folks from wherever they live to where they’re going to work, which in this case would be the Northwest Territories. We have a shared interest with the mines there, as well, because we all have vacancies and hard-to-fill positions that we’re working hard at. We want to work with them. As well, we’ve sorted out the confidentiality issue, for example, with Education where now we can have a greater connection with the students that we’re paying to go to school down south, not only for ourselves but for the private sector so they can know who is in engineering, who is in finance, who is in the social sciences and we can do a better job of recruiting and making sure our own students and our own children, Northerners, know that not only we’d like them to come back but we’re going to actively recruit them to come back. So we have a very shared common interest to see that we can have that type of sustainability and have that type of population growth where we share our efforts where it makes sense to do that work in terms of the systems and making sure that we can address our needs together. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you. I’d just like to thank the Minister for that comprehensive response, and that is good news and some of that I was not aware of, some of those initiatives that may be more recent. So, I’m sure the public will be glad to hear of them and that’s what this forum is all about. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. General comments. Does committee agree to go into detail?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Committee, if I can get you to turn your attention to your NWT Capital Estimates binder. We are currently on page 27, which we will defer. So again, committee, page 28, Finance. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just on the detail here, I’m just wondering if I can get a brief explanation of what an IT system to implement functionality within the treasury suite of applications to forecast cash requirements and manage portfolio investments means.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That was what we thought was fairly plain English, but I’ll ask the deputy to provide further detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Aumond.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, generally speaking, it’s a system that we use to forecast our cash requirements and short-term borrowing and the cost of borrowing, how we might mitigate that, but essentially we have a Treasury Management Information System now that’s on its second version. It’s based on technology that’s decades old and it’s failed twice in the last 24 months. With devolution, now we have increased amount of funds coming through our bank accounts, and now we’re trying to track resource revenues as well going through our bank account. We use this all to make sure that we’re trying to maintain a good management and monitoring of our fiscal strategy, to ensure we’re trying to meet our objectives. So, what we have now also is a system that although it is information that is really based on pushing paper and having manual inputs into the system, what we want to do is we want to automate that.

So, what we want to do is improve the functionality of our cash forecasting capabilities along with enhancing our GNWT’s investment and debt tracking capabilities between our trading partner, which is basically the bank and investment firms that we do our investing. It provides direct access to receipt and disbursement data, which will enhance

both monitoring actual data and forecasting, which will be improved by the accurate complete of data, and really it’s automated management of the investment pools as opposed to the management or the manual system that we’re doing now. So, really, more accurate tracking of our borrowing requirements, which is now outside of the current system we have, and we had hoped to put this in initially when we did SAM, but the budget we had wouldn’t allow for that.

Really what we’re trying to do is take a decades’ old system and bring it into the 21st Century and allow

us to provide better management and reporting not only for the system but for the Assembly itself. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Aumond. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks for that response. I think it will be very interesting to have a discussion at some point on what our portfolio of investments is. This may not be the right forum for it, but it’s something I don’t recall. Perhaps our committee on Gov Ops has had that, but that might be an interesting discussion.

Just on the other project, I see it’s a completion of the implementation of the PeopleSoft financial…(inaudible)…sourcing and so on. Are we on budget with that? I don’t see a prior year expenditure on this, although I know we seem to invest untold millions into this software generally. Where are we at in achieving our targets with what was originally predicted for costs here with this SAM system and with this second project specifically? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

Thank you, Mr. Chair. With respect to the sourcing contract supplier contract management, this again, it’s a separate module in SAM, and it was something we had intended to do when we originally implemented the system, but the budget we had wouldn’t allow for it. Really what this will do, it will help address some of the concerns of the Auditor General when they did their audit for procurement a few years back, while having a system that will provide consistent and complete information with respect to contracting and sourcing as well as maintaining clearly tracked deliverables and payment schedules. It will help ensure our employees who are procurement employees who work in procurement and shared services have the right tools to do their job. In addition, it will help provide for an enhanced vendor experience with the GNWT by putting our procurement online and allowing businesses who under procurement with the GNWT to do that business online and track where their contracts are going.

So we’re looking for $50,000 in ’15-16, and we will also be looking to supplementary appropriation of moving some O and M money out of the Department of Finance’s budget and converting it to

capital to complete this project in this fiscal year. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you for that information. I heard that there will be the $50,000 cost and I believe the deputy minister said some additional going to this project from operations. Perhaps I should know that amount. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

Yes, $175,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

So now this project is up to $225,000, putting those two figures together, and $175,000 being moved over from operations in ’15-16. I don’t know what our operations budget is, but is that the normal course for capital purchases? I know it is possible to transfer between, but I thought it was usually sort of a supplementary thing as opposed to 80 percent of the cost.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

I thank the Member for the question. The Member is correct in that it is a supplementary thing and that’s the route that we will be pursuing here. Given that our allocation for IT is about $6.5 million and competition for the project, we actually had an opportunity this year in Finance to allocate some money to help accelerate the project. So we chose to do that route rather than try to delay the project further.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I thought I heard we’ve got a $6 million capital budget for Finance here. Am I missing something? I think we’re dealing with the Department of Finance capital budget here. This seems to be a much more significant portion than I had originally thought. I just wanted to make sure I had the context right. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Aumond

We have a corporate allocation across the entire GNWT of about $6.5 million for IT projects of which all departments compete for and get allocated money from. Our allocation in ‘15-16 for those projects are $210,000, and rather than delay the allocation or the rollout of this project, what we are hoping to do is to allocate $175,000 in ‘15-16 for the strategic sourcing supplier contract management portion of that and top that up in ‘15-16 with $50,000. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I think I will leave it at that. I think again that is something that committee might want to talk about, is what the rules are here, if there are any, in terms of transfer of operational funds. This is a stand-alone cost, albeit it is software and we buy lots of software, but it is a stand-alone cost within Finance and that’s quite a significant contribution from operations, presumably in the Department of Finance, to this project. So I think, again, it could stand a little discussion in committee so we’re doing this with full cognizance. That’s all I have. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. I’ll allow the Minister for final comment.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Of course, if there is an interest by committee to have a chat or discussion or meeting with Finance or a briefing on rules for transfer between O and M and capital, while it is done and there are rules and ways to do it, we would be happy to have that discussion. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Committee, we are on page 28 on Finance, office of the comptroller general, infrastructure investments, $210,000. Committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Committee, I will ask you to return to page 27. Finance, total infrastructure investments, $210,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree we have concluded consideration of the Department of Finance?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. I would like to thank Deputy Minister Aumond and Minister Miltenberger this afternoon. If I can get the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort our witness out of the Chamber.

Committee, I will get you to turn your attention to the Human Resources section in your capital estimates, page 37. With that, we will turn to the Minister responsible for that department to see if he has any witnesses that he would like to bring to the House. Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Sergeant-at-Arms, if could you please escort the witnesses at this time. Thank you.

Mr. Beaulieu, if you would care to introduce your witnesses to the House.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With me today is Shirley Desjardins, deputy minister of Human Resources, and Michelle Beard, director of corporate affairs.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Ms. Desjardins, Ms. Beard, welcome to the Chamber.

Committee, we agreed earlier for convention protocol that we will have no opening comments and will go directly to general comments. With that,

general comments. Does committee agree to go into detail?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Committee, turn to page 37 of your capital estimates book. We will defer this activity at this moment, and I will turn your attention to page 38, Human Resources, directorate, infrastructure investments, $440,000. Any questions? Seeing none, I will ask the committee to return to page 37, total infrastructure investments, Human Resources, total infrastructure investments, $440,000. Committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree we have concluded consideration for the Department of Human Resources?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. I’d like to thank Minister Beaulieu, Ms. Desjardins and Ms. Beard for joining us today. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could escort the witnesses out of the Chamber. Thank you.

Committee, moving along, I would like to turn your attention to Education, Culture and Employment. This is on page 11 of the capital estimates. With that, we will turn over to the Minister responsible to see if he has any witnesses to bring into the House. Mr. Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Sergeant-at-Arms, could you please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Would you like to introduce your witnesses to the House please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I have with me Dana Heide, associate deputy minister with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment; and Tammy Allison, manager, capital planning, Education, Culture and Employment.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Heide, Ms. Allison, welcome to the Chamber.

Committee, as indicated earlier, we will forego opening comments. We will go directly to general comments. General comments, Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Minister, to the table. I want to look at the

progression of having the required infrastructure in our small communities and I am going to quickly allude to the Sahtu region, to the existing learning centres from Aurora College in our small communities. I have made note of it, Mr. Chairman, that I was in Deline last week at the economic leadership strategy meeting for the Sahtu region. In the economic leadership strategy meeting they talked about the appreciation of the department and looking at the needs assessment and no one was in the Sahtu region today. We have our appreciation that we can now say these are the needs assessments in the Sahtu. Can we now start matching those needs assessments to the existing facilities that we have or do we need to create additional infrastructure?

I was approached by one of the board members from the land corporation and the board member talked about the Aurora College Learning Centre in Tulita, where possibly a cooking program, training program, could be there. Right now we just don’t have that infrastructure. You may have it in Norman Wells, maybe, with the camps and cooks and that, you may have it in Deline with the Grey Goose having the facility there, so we wanted to look at that and ask the department, given that we have a certain amount of days left in this government here and how fast government works to get things done in our communities, is that a possibility of starting a second phase, I guess, to the needs assessment, to look at matching the infrastructure to the needs assessment and making sure that we have the facility if and when the oil and gas again ramps up? We have spinoff for those types of work that they are going to do in the region, such as under the exploration, the seismic, that we have qualified people that can be qualified to go into those camps as certified cooks or maintenance or office administration, some of those things. That’s what we want to look at under infrastructure.

The other one, of course, is something that the region talked about, also, was a training centre, we don’t know what kind, we haven’t yet seen the feasibility study. There are existing facilities right now in Norman Wells. The old Mackenzie House has been shut down as of yesterday. The last person who was out there shut the lights off. It’s an icon building in Norman Wells. It’s a 30-year-old building used by Imperial Oil and other contractors that come into Norman Wells. It’s a facility that has been there for a while. The leadership was looking at it. They don’t have the assessment of the costs and all the other things that go on to look at this facility. Is it worthwhile to the department to look at this and say is it possible, and if not, what else can we use it for if we’re looking at a future trades centre in the Sahtu region? They have the facilities there. The rooms are there. A kitchen, cafeteria style, is there. You can use that facility, so we want to look at that as an opportunity.

We appreciate the work that you’re going to be doing in the Sahtu communities for the energy needs for the schools and some of the things that our schools are desperately needing, such as Colville Lake, and based on that, I would also say I support other schools that need a facility in their communities to get the best type of education, because with that, from our reports that our students in our small communities are not doing well at the grade level. They’re actually one or two grades lagging back from their actual grade level. I don’t know if that is connected to the infrastructure we have or just the way things are at. That’s the quality of education we have now in our small communities.

I always said there are have and have-not communities in the Northwest Territories. There are communities that do not have some of the basic educational funds as in the larger centres, and we have to do without it. That’s a reality. There are communities in the Northwest Territories that are… Like in Canada, there are have provinces and have-not provinces. That’s a reality. By looking at the infrastructure and looking at the Sahtu, we can change that. The department is in the position to make a difference in a child’s life with the education. I supported you with Junior Kindergarten. It’s a good program. I see the benefits happening now in the Sahtu. That’s good. We need that.

Education and culture, we’re starting to move that. Like I said earlier in the House, the Sahtu had three key, essential components to make it work: sovereignty, institutions and culture. The culture is strong in our region. Like I said, I came to a point where in our leadership last week in Deline, the elders spoke strong about our culture. That’s something that’s ingrained in us. I’m looking for the Minister’s department to put infrastructure and culture in our communities.

The last point I want to talk about is the employment. When you look in the Sahtu, you look at the five communities, you look at Norman Wells having the lowest unemployment rate in the Northwest Territories, 4 percent. Unheard of. But when you look at the communities of Deline, Tulita, Colville Lake and Good Hope, our employment rate is only at 40 percent. It’s only 40 percent of our people working there. Why is that? It’s because there’s an industry in Norman Wells that’s working. In our small communities our industry is government contracts – when they’re there – it’s short term, it’s seasonal, but there’s no economy. When we have a high population of young people who are graduating from school, it’s high. Mr. Minister, you went to our grad last year. You were in Fort Good Hope. Like I said in one of my meetings, that one of our Grade 12s, she finished Grade 12 last year and you know what she’s doing this year in Tulita? She’s a custodian janitor

because she can’t find work. You know, that tells me something. Even though she’s in Grade 12, she’s doing anything and everything to do to get her work, to find a job. We’ve got to do better than that. The employment rate for us needs to be improved in the Sahtu. People want to work. That’s what I was told last week. We want work. We want to get off government dependency. I’ve got to set my people free.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. I’ll allow the Minister to respond. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. We are currently dealing with the college when it comes to the community learning centres. We’ve heard from some of the communities. I believe there are 23 communities with community learning centres and 10 without, so those are the communities that we hear from. We’ve been dealing with the college at that level.

The Member alluded to a needs assessment at the community level. What we’re doing now is, obviously my department is overseeing the needs assessment and feasibility study 2014-15, and the Member is asking if it will be captured as part of using our existing infrastructure. Yes, it will be part of the study, the scope of the study, which will highlight existing education, training facilities and also infrastructure. Also, using an existing training program and how can we improve in those training programs, as well, whether it be at the local, regional or even at the territorial level. There are other pools of the local jobs and just the skills analysis and the training requirements. Those are areas of interest that have been ongoing for a number of months and a number of years now and it’s finally here. It has given us the tools that we can work with, with the community, with the experts at the community level and at the regional level too.

Schools in the small communities, the Member talked about kids falling behind and whether it was due to infrastructure. This is an area that we have heard over and over from the community leaders, the educators. Due to that fact, we’ve developed the overall Educational Renewal and Innovation, and that will certainly capture and it’s one of the pillars as focusing on small communities, staff and student supports, those types of programs. We also talk about the funding formula as well. Even though we talk about the capital planning process, now those areas will definitely be captured, even the culture preservation that the Member was alluding to, that we are doing various initiatives within our Aboriginal Languages Secretariat that will capture that culture preservation and also our language as well.

The unemployment rate, we’re fully aware that some of the larger centres are quite low, but outlying communities, especially the remote

communities, the unemployment rate is high up there, and the Member has indicated that there is just a recent Grade 12 graduate who is a custodian. Those are concerns that are brought to our attention as well. We are working with the stakeholders at the community level to develop some opportunities for those community members, whether it be the Grade 12 graduates, the people that have been trained and even the post-secondary students who are coming back to their communities. So with this needs assessment that is before us, that will capture all those areas of interest from the communities. So, Mr. Chair, this is what we’re doing from the communities’ perspective and also the regional perspective as a department working with the Sahtu region. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Continuing on with general comments with Education, Culture and Employment, I have Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. In the Minister’s previous response, he was talking about schools in small communities and I did a Member’s statement last week. Most particularly for Trout Lake, in the budget here, we have renovations to the Charles Tetcho building. I have consistently made the case that is a community hall that was shared with the school. It looks like the renovations are to make more space for the schooling needs. Sorry, Trout Lake is one of the communities in the North that has a growing population, most particularly from zero to 10 years old, so they definitely need more schooling space.

At the same time, the community is concerned they will be losing community hall space. They advised they use the community hall six days a week for their healing programming, get-togethers, I think it has a sewing room, as well, and it does have a small gymnasium that all residents use.

So their concern is they have been asking for a stand-alone school, a replacement for the original Charles Tetcho School that burnt down some 15, 20 years ago. Pat of the whole process was the population was small and when they built the new community hall, I think Education took charge and they joint ventured with MACA and created a community hall plus a small room for schooling. The agreement and understanding of the community is one day they will get their own stand-alone school. Now the fear is if they do the renovations, they will lose the community hall plus they won’t be getting their own stand-alone school. So that is a concern.

I know that the bulk of the money in the budget here is slated for next year, so what exactly is the department planning? I think there’s planning study money being used right now. How are they engaging the community and what is the exact plan

for renovating the building right now? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thanks, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. As you see as part of the capital planning process, we’ve identified some funds, as the Member alluded to, for renovations to Trout Lake school, Charles Tetcho School as part of the renovation to the existing building space to be provided with adequate instructional space.

There have been several discussions that have taken place. As Minister responsible for Education and Mr. Beaulieu, who is responsible for Public Works and Services, and MLA Menicoche did visit the community along with the Dehcho Divisional Education Council and my senior staff to review the shortcomings of the school and discuss potential solutions. There have been other meetings, as well, where DDC and my department met on September, 20, 2013, to further discuss temporary measures. This is an area where we are investing as a temporary measure. There is also a long-term plan. There will be a planning study, as I indicated in the House last week, and that is on the way in 2014-15.

Those are some areas, and a needs assessment analysis and operational plan will determine the scope of work. Mr. Chair, if I missed out on key areas, if I could have Ms. Allison elaborate a bit more in detail. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Allison.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Allison

Thank you, Mr. Chair. With respect to the planning study, the funding has been secured for 2014-15. To date, we’ve concluded the education plan, and that consisted of a consultant going in for approximately a week to meet with different community members and gain feedback. At this time we’re putting together a project brief, working with Public Works on that and that will secure design services. Then we will be going back in for more community consultations. So within that project brief, it will list what the project scope should be, but it’s still to be confirmed, based on the architect coming up with some solutions and how to provide the additional space that we need.

To address the concern of the existing community space, Education won’t be using the existing learning space; sorry, the existing community space for the school. That space was funded by MACA and that space is for the community. So we would be looking to address the need for additional instructional space in other manners. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Allison. Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank the Minister and staff for that answer. I think it’s important for me to hear that definitely it’s not meant to be a long-term solution. As you do the planning study, I think a few things are important to engage the community, to engage the chief and band council and let them know that. Chief Dolphus Jumbo has told me, he says, Kevin, I’ve seen this before. They’ll come and do temporary, but it will end up permanent. I don’t want to lose that stand-alone school that we’ve been working so hard to get. I think that’s important.

I don’t know if part of the scope of the planning study, perhaps I can get the Minister’s comment on this, is to get a class D estimate on what a whole replacement school would be. It would be interesting for me to know and to share with the community as they do their planning study. I’m pretty sure a class D estimate is not going to be too much work for the department to get those cost figures if the Minister can instruct whoever is doing that planning study to do that work as well.

I was just thinking in terms of funding, as well, Mr. Chair. What is the possibility of accessing Building Canada dollars slated for small communities for educational capital expenditures? I would like to get the Minister’s thoughts on that.

I see I’m running out of time, but I want to get some more clarification in. This is a different topic, but it’s the parking space for the Fort Liard school. If the Minister could address whether that will be completed in the 2015-16 capital budget. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Most definitely part of the planning study obviously would engage community leadership, community members. They need to be involved along the way. We are looking at the long term, up to 10 years ahead. The classification status is still yet to be identified. As I indicated, this is a planning study that is just currently underway in 2014-15. Whether it is classification C or D, E, that will be identified at that time.

The Building Canada Fund, I was just asking my staff if we ever accessed that kind of funding, and to my knowledge we haven’t identified an area where we can pursue that. I will get Ms. Allison to maybe elaborate a bit more in detail. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Ms. Allison.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Allison

Thank you, Mr. Chair. With regards to the Building Canada Fund, we did look into it briefly for another project, but we will ensure that there are no pots of money that we can go after for this particular project.

In respect to Fort Liard, we’ve been working with Public Works to address several issues that were brought forward by the school principal in Fort Liard. Some of the items were completed during this summer.

With respect to parking, we had asked for an estimate to have someone go down and look at it in closer detail, but I do have some general guidelines that can be reviewed in regard to parking in small communities, and I’d like to go over that with the school principal first to see if there are ways we can mitigate the issue. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Allison. Continuing on, I have Mr. Moses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. A few areas of, I guess, concern. When we were talking about education with their very big department O and M, but obviously we’re making some changes within this department to give the best opportunity for our youth and our adults, depending on whatever level of education or degree where they are in their lives, what concerns me is just the amounts that have been allocated in this capital budget for Education, Culture and Employment. That’s 2.36 percent of the capital budget focused in this department when it’s such a big area of concern for obviously the small communities especially, and yet we’re not addressing some of those concerns.

When you look at some of the statistics, attendance is probably our biggest challenge to get kids into the seats in the schools, but if we have schools that aren’t even there, or even schools that are not adequate enough to house X number of students, then there’s possibly a reason why our attendance is so bad. That leads to a lot of other social determinants that affect a person’s life starting at a very young age. As I said, in the small communities we see that is pretty evident and you heard it here today.

Another thing that we’re doing this year in 23 of the schools, I believe, is the Junior Kindergarten, and I think in this capital budget we’re looking at making some renovations to some of the schools to address the needs that are going to be associated with bringing the four-year-olds into the school system. I think that as we learn what this Junior Kindergarten is doing, we’re going to see that we’re going to need to do more renovations moving forward, and once again the system, whether it’s a washroom or whether it’s creating new areas to do play-based activities, then those are costs that we’re going to see and they’re going to add stress to the educator, it will add stress to the school, and whether we’re prepared for that or not, I see that it is addressed in the capital budget, but it’s not addressed for all the schools. We’re going to see some challenges, and how are we going to address those moving forward? I know there have been talks about a lot of reallocation within this

department and where are we going to find the dollars to address some of these potential concerns that might be coming up here.

In Inuvik we do have an issue here with the Aurora College family units and when we’re going to get those up and running again, because I know the department is spending a lot of money right now as they’re in an agreement with one of the rental companies in Inuvik. Even though those family units aren’t being fully utilized because we have a low enrollment in the college, we’re spending a lot of money, throwing a lot of dollars at vacant units right now, family units. That’s money that could go into breakfast programs; that’s money that could be going to other things.

Last year we had a motion that was brought to the House regarding a stand-alone campus for here in Yellowknife, and we did go over and met with the staff, met with the students, we did a tour of the college, and it was evident that space was an issue here in Yellowknife for a lot of the departments and a lot of the programs that were being available. We did go to one room where we saw X number of nursing students all crowded together in one room. I can’t even remember how many there were, but there was quite a bit. That just goes back to my argument that we’ve got to start utilizing whatever infrastructure we have in the other campuses where we’re putting too much stress on the building, we’re putting too much stress on the instructors, and I think that the Minister really needs to have a good talk with the Board of Governors on how we start utilizing all the space that we have in the NWT for programs within the Aurora College field.

A couple of other concerns that I had with this department was when they are doing planning studies, you mentioned you’re doing some planning studies here, Inuvik was, you know, a lot of work went into that school. There was an issue around the dental office. It’s supposed to be something that’s supposed to be great for the kids and we’re not even using it. I think the planning study didn’t take that into consideration, and if you walk out of the school into the school grounds and you’re promoting play-based learning with Junior Kindergarten and you walk into the playgrounds and there’s no playground. There’s a lot of grass, a lot of hills, logs, I think that’s what it is. Our playground in Inuvik is logs. It’s ridiculous. When we do these planning studies, we’ve got to look at things that are going to help our students learn cognitively and be able to use their minds and not crawl around and jump over logs and rocks. It’s something that was overlooked; it was an oversight. I’m not too sure what happened there, but I think that needs to be addressed not only at East Three elementary but also with schools as we’re looking at developing them.

As we’re going through ECE, I didn’t see much here for the culture component. As the Minister knows, our languages are a dying breed right now, especially in some of the regions they’re getting worse, but we’re not seeing anything in terms of culture, tradition, developing space so that we can highlight some of the history. Not only that, maybe adding to the museums that we have, looking at ways we can be innovative in getting our culture revitalized that will help promote our languages as well.

So, just a few things of concern there within this department. It’s such a big department that has a lot of responsibility and the education and the wellness and livelihood of our people of the Northwest Territories, and we’re only investing 2.36 percent of this capital budget into seeing what we can do for our residents.

So, obviously some concerns, but on a plus side I guess it’s nice to see that we’re taking alternative energy options for some of the schools with the pellet boilers and those kind of things, but still a lot of concern, and I think for me a lot of them need to be addressed in years to come.

So, just a few comments, some concerns. In terms of the playground at East Three elementary, I know there was a lot of parents that are pretty, I wouldn’t even say concerned, I guess shake their heads and don’t understand how we cannot put a playground in front of the school when we have all these elementary schools out there. They can only play tag and hide and seek. You can’t even go hiding in that thing, so you can’t even play hide and seek. So I think that’s something that needs to be addressed with the playground at the East Three elementary.

So, a few concerns there, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. What the Member has brought up are a lot of points that obviously have been brought to our attention as well. Due to the fact we are investing just over $6.5 million in capital projects, there may not be much out of a $125 million budget, but at the same time we spend well over $290 million over a five-year period when it comes to schools and different educational assets in the Northwest Territories.

Yes, we need to focus on the small communities, as the Member alluded to, small community schools. We’ve done that. There is Lutselk’e school, there is Charles Tetcho School renovation, Colville Lake. We want to do more, but it’s a funding crunch, and all the departments have their own wishes and we do too. We put in as much as we could and this is what we got out of the actual budget.

When it comes to family units, there has been an agreement in place. I totally agree with the

Member; there are three different campuses, 33 communities, 23 community learning centres. How can we best utilize the campuses in the Northwest Territories? There are some campuses that may be a bit empty and some are full. Those are areas that we are currently capturing with the Board of Governors of Aurora College, how to best utilize our spaces, our program delivery as well. Those are ongoing discussions that we are currently having as part of the Aurora College long-term plans, how to deal these areas.

East Three School, the dental office, I’ll get Ms. Allison to maybe elaborate on that a bit. The playground has been brought to our attention as well. It was part of the planning process when the East Three School came up. The JK came after that, so we’ll deal with the JK infrastructure at that level, but this is an area that my department has been working with PWS when we were developing the planning study. Members ask that future plan studies should be capturing these kinds of initiatives. We are hearing the Member and they should be captured. Those are some of the areas that will be discussed as well.

The culture components, the museum will obviously take over the Aboriginal Languages Secretariat, and we have a couple of staff moving to the main floor, working with regional and community levels as to how we can best deliver programs when it comes to the cultural components, or even revitalizing our language. The space is required to do so. So I am glad Members are referring to that where the museum will be the host of that for the regional perspective. We are moving forward on that, but I will get Ms. Allison on the dental office, I guess, with the E3 School.

I will turn it over to Ms. Allison.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Ms. Allison.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Allison

Thank you, Mr. Chair. With respect to the East 3 dental suite, the planning for this project for the East 3 School had started in 2004-2005. Unfortunately, at that point, or since that time and with the beginning of construction, numerous things had changed, basically the standards within the Health department for these dental therapy suites.

We have estimated the amount of money that would be required. We asked Public Works to do that in order to upgrade it, but we have some bigger questions as to whether or not this program fits well in the school at this point. Because of infection control and the amount of exchanges of air per hour that are required, we just aren’t convinced that it is a good fit with our schools. We have numerous schools that would be affected by this as well. This is going to be a larger conversation that has to happen between the Department of Health, Public Works and probably the regional health board in the

Beaufort-Delta. We are still waiting to have that meeting and discuss how that can move forward.

With regards to Junior Kindergarten, I would just like to let the Member know that for ‘15-16 and ‘16-17 the department has identified the need for upgrades, and it is based primarily on the schools that have utilizations where they would require upgrades. So if the utilization is over 85 percent, then we know that there would be more significant upgrades compared to if it is at 40 percent where we don’t see as much changing because the school can handle the population. But it is agreed that we will have to watch and see what is required in the future for the addition of this program. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Allison. Continuing on with general comments on ECE, I have Mr. Bouchard.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will keep my comments fairly brief. I think most Members have taken on the issues that concern me.

I guess one of the biggest issues that I see right off the hop is, like other Members have indicated, it is one of the biggest operating budgets but yet it is probably well in the bottom half of the capital budget. My concerns would be the fact that we have to keep upgrading schools. We have to keep upgrading those facilities. I see a couple of retrofits on them but not a lot of big projects. I know we have done a couple of big projects in the regional centres, but it just seems that we are not… We are given kind of multiple years here; we should be looking at more of a phased-in approach and having more projects on the go, I would think, for that size of department.

My concerns are as well with Junior Kindergarten. I think we are getting indications already before the budgets are even being implemented that the money is not enough that’s being put there. We are going to see demands from communities that the retrofits are going to be way more expensive than we originally estimated. You’re doing a lot of communities; you’re implementing this in all the communities, so it will be a bigger budget. I think we have underestimated the cost that it is going to take to fit these young children into our school system. I think we should reassess that sooner than later so that we actually have an indication of what it is going to cost to put these youth into the school system.

I guess it is concerning, again, the stuff that’s not in there. The troubling issue is always a concern, I think, from this side of the floor, that we have a school that is in a community hall that we continue to put money into and why aren’t we building a school there as opposed to just upgrading a community hall.

The other thing that’s not in here, and I know we are waiting for a court case, but I think the government has stepped aside from its responsibilities with the French schools in the fact that it says, well, we’re just going to wait for a court case, which is not necessarily a proactive approach. We know that there is going to be some costs associated with this; we need to be putting some money into it. I’ve made Member’s statements to this effect, that to have a French community versus a non-French community fighting amongst each other or having to argue about the cost of these facilities, upgrades and the court case is part of the government’s responsibility. They are the ones that created it because they want to fight the system. I think there should be some money that we are starting to put away, but then again I see us find lots of money real quick if we need it. I am concerned that we’re not putting anything in for the French schools. We know there is a court case coming, but we also know that we lost the first one. So that’s just my opening comments. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Our overall goal as a department is obviously to look after our schools throughout the Northwest Territories, the 49 schools. Some are very much deteriorating and some are fairly new. Now our overall emphasis is to focus on those schools that are badly in need, whether it be a renovation or a retrofit. So we will continue to push that forward during the capital planning process on an annual basis.

Over the years, obviously, the Members have supported us at that level, so we’ll continue to push that forward.

The $400,000 for the JK, that’s just some of the upgrades that we needed to do, the 23 schools that we’ve initiated, and the Member is asking that we should reassess. Obviously, with any new initiative, there will obviously be some analysis or assessment that will be embarked on. So, this is an area that we will be closely monitoring. Other communities may require some infrastructure upgrade to meet the demands of the delivery of JK programming.

French school, yes, it is before the courts, as you know. To put the funds in place, as the Member indicated, until the court decision comes down, that’s when the decision will be made and that’s when we’ll know the actual costs. Right now we wouldn’t know the overall costs of if there’s going to be a renovation or gymnasium or other infrastructure that’s required. Once it’s settled through courts, then we’ll decide to move forward on the actual expenditure on how much it will cost us. So at this point, we’re just waiting for a court

decision on these two schools, one in Hay River and also in Yellowknife as well. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Continuing on with general comments for Education, Culture and Employment, I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess, once again, our second largest department budget-wise, operations is relegated to 2 percent for the third year in a row of our capital budget, 2 percent. This despite repeated and ongoing requests of MLAs to help set the priorities, the Finance Minister mentioned, year after year, to put more capital dollars into this department to reflect our regard for education as the number one priority and capital being an important part of that.

Sissons, of course, in Yellowknife, I heard the Minister just say our approach is to focus on schools that badly need it. Well, good grief; Sissons has needed it since my first year as a politician. It has been raised every year and nothing is happening. Our kids continue to go school there. Our Commission scolaire francophone Territories du Nord-Quest turned it down. We wouldn’t take that; we wouldn’t touch it with a 10-foot pole. And who can blame them? It’s an embarrassment, and again, we’re sending our kids there. So, 2 percent of the capital budget is hardly worth spending any time on here.

The courts have said we’ve got to provide these things, and we’re going back and arguing about that, but I mean, at some level we will have to do that. Once again, it’s not reflected in the budget. I know the department’s working on this and perhaps they’ve identified a school or two, but presumably there would be a capital budget requirement for that. So again, it’s another department that will likely have more added later that we’re not hearing about.

So the ECE budget, capital budget, $5.8 million NWT-wide, not a dollar, not a single loonie to be spent on schools, school infrastructure, in Yellowknife and Hay River, 60 percent of our children.

The Aurora College we know remains. I was fortunate to join my colleagues from committee on a tour not so long ago, and I have to say, we missed it, each of us missed half the tour because we couldn’t fit in the space where the discussion was going on. Talk about sardines. Yet no mention, no discussion. Yeah, sardines. Sardines in a can, and every one of the people we saw said that, of course, and pointed out how they couldn’t turn around. I have to say, I agree that there’s very little cultural investment other than the dollars going towards the replacement of a generator at the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Museum. Again, a third year in a row, a 2 percent capital budget and long-standing issues not being resolved.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This is what is before us, $6.5 million of new money that we’re moving forward on. Again, I have to remind that we spent well over $290 million over the last five years throughout the Northwest Territories and our overall education system, educational infrastructure, so we should be proud of the investment that we’ve undertaken in the communities, and we’ll continue to push that forward with the $6.5 million this year, and next year it could be a different number. We have to work with the Peer Review Committee as it goes through the overall capital infrastructure. At the end of the day, the decision lies there. We put so many projects in the hopper so at the end of the day they’ll provide us with $6.5 million, so that’s what we’re moving forward on.

When we talk about J.H. Sissons and other schools that need renovation, obviously there is a meeting that is happening with YK 1 and with the public, but at the same time, we have to keep in mind the reality, even in Yellowknife and the three school boards, the enrolment that we have in the overall school system, some as low as 30, 35 percent. This is a very serious issue that we all need to work together towards to come up with a solution, We as the department are trying to work with the school boards to identify those areas and have a plan of action, so we’re just waiting to hear from the school board. I believe there is a meeting that’s coming up. We want to move forward on that and we want to capture and deal with those low percentiles with enrolment.

Aurora College campus has been in discussion for a number of years, and the Member has alluded to that. We’re fully aware of that too. That is another one that at times goes in our overall capital infrastructure hopper, but at the end of the day it’s not approved. It’s an $80 million budget that it has to be earmarked and, as you know, it’s $125 million territorial-wide, and $80 million to put that part of the process, I think, would be a difficult task to move that forward. At the same time, my department has always been pushing that forward and we will continue to do so. We’re fully aware of the situation at the Aurora College campus here in Yellowknife. Then again, there are three campuses. Why couldn’t we maximize our program delivery in other campuses that we have? Those are ongoing discussions we are currently having with the Board of Governors and we want to make those changes.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Continuing on with general comments, I have Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My comments are very similar to those of my colleagues and for good reason. I think we are all concerned about the

amount of dollars that is in this section of the capital budget for this department. It is almost 25 percent of our operations budget, and yet, as has been stated, it’s less than 2.5 percent of the capital for this particular department. There is only one major project in this $6.4 million that the Minister just mentioned, and that’s renovations to the Lutselk'e Dene School. The other school projects are relatively minimal. There’s no reference in documents that we’ve seen to date to any major school projects over the next three years from ’15-16 up to ’17-18. There are no major school projects in there.

As has been mentioned, there is no indication from the department that there is any financial planning taking place to deal with the court decision regarding French schools, and I think that this is a symptom, to me, of what we seem to do as a government, that the government says, well, yeah, we know we’re going to have a problem, but we’re going to wait until we actually know for sure that there’s a problem and then we’ll start planning. That puts any kind of school project or expansion to the French schools either in Hay River or in Yellowknife, that puts it back at least five years. If I remember the decision of the court, I think it was supposed to be completed in 2015. Well, we’re pretty much there and I don’t see anything in this capital plan that indicates to me that the department is planning and is putting money aside to do renovations to the French schools as we’ve been ordered. I know we’re relying on the appeal, but when the appeal comes due and we’re told that we were supposed to comply with the decision that was made over a year ago now, where are we going to be? No money.

I’m a little concerned about the reference to Junior Kindergarten renos, and there are renovations identified in here, minor capital upgrades to support the addition of Junior Kindergarten in existing schools. Well, it’s in ’15-16 and the program started in ’14-15, so we’re doing upgrades to schools after the fact so we’re going to have programs running at least for one year in schools, Junior Kindergarten programs that are running in presumably substandard facilities, so I’m struggling with that. I know there are some renovations that are happening this year, but we’re obviously doing renovations to JK classrooms for the next two years as the program unfolds, and that seems to be putting the cart before the horse to me.

I sympathize and empathize with Mr. Menicoche’s position with regard to the Trout Lake school. We’re going to make renovations to an existing community facility to try and make a school space bigger in Trout Lake. It’s been some 15 or 20 years, I guess, since the school burnt down, but I don’t understand why, in that time, we could not have trucked a school portable from Yellowknife. Goodness knows, there’s a number of them that

have been around that have been surplused. We could have trucked a portable to Trout Lake and they would have had a stand-alone school easily 10 years ago. It’s still something that concerns me. The Minister keeps saying that this is a temporary fix to the Charles Tetcho School, but where in the ECE long-term plan is a stand-alone school for Trout Lake? It’s going to be somewhere around $10 million, I imagine, to build a stand-alone school. We could certainly get a portable there for less than $10 million, I would think. I’m having big difficulty in understanding why Trout Lake is struggling to school their kids in a community centre.

I have to reiterate the concerns about the Aurora College campus in Yellowknife. I have to echo the comments of Members who have spoken already. It’s definitely something which is required, and again, I don’t see it anywhere in the department, certainly far the short-term plan. It may be in the 10- or 20-year long-term plan, but we need to have a facility planned for an awful lot sooner than 10 years down the road. It has been discussed for at least five years and there is yet to be any kind of a decent plan to try and get a facility where Aurora College students attending programs in Yellowknife can have an optimum learning environment. It just isn’t there right now.

I have a couple of specific questions. Maybe I will ask them here and then all the questions are out on the floor. The item for safe schools, minor capital upgrades to support lockdown procedures, I would question the Minister or staff to tell me what that is. Basically give me an explanation of what it is we are doing that is a capital upgrade to support lockdown procedures. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thanks, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Yes, the budget has been talked about this afternoon, the $6.5 million that is there before us and we are working with it. Once it’s approved by this Assembly, we will move along with renovating those schools as highlighted.

Costs to the French schools that the Member alluded to is not there yet. We have some figures that were brought to our attention, but that figure could change once the court decision happens. So, we are currently waiting for that to happen so we can prepare ourselves as the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Not only that, but working with PWS, because it has to be a coordinated approach, and working with the school board as well.

The JK renovations, we’ve been working very closely with the 23 schools where we are delivering JK programming. There are some areas that needed some minor facelifts, upgrades, that we are dealing with in our department. This 2015-16 is earmarked for $400,000 just to capture some

upgrades that need to happen that we may not have funds identified within our department, almost half a million.

The Trout Lake school, I am fully aware of that. The committee requested a stand-alone school. We are currently doing renovations to Charles Tetcho School that would capture some of the spacing required at this time, today. When we talk about a stand-alone school, there is a process in place. Obviously it won’t happen next year, but there has to be a planning phase where a planning study needs to happen. That is part of our long-term plan, as I indicated in this House. We are moving forward on that and we will be engaging the committee leadership to hear their input as well. We’ve heard their input and now we need to engage with them even further.

Aurora College has been brought up as well. We are currently working with the college, the Board of Governors, on short-term and long-term plans. The main campuses, the 23 campuses, how can we best utilize the space that is required as well.

The safe schools, obviously there is a PA system that needs to be upgraded as part of the budget that has been highlighted. Part of that will be the lockdown, as the Member alluded to. That will be the PA upgrade in cases where there are issues at the community school level, so it is announced within the school system. Not all schools have a PA system. There has to be some sort of mechanism. Mr. Chair, those are some investments that we want to do into some of the schools that may not have the PA system or those that are outdated, to upgrade them as well. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Ms. Bisaro, you have a few minutes left on the clock.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. One thing I forgot to mention is this department, which is about 25 percent of our total operations budget, has $6.5 million in capital expenditures and the Department of Transportation – and I don’t know what percentage of our operations budget – has $112 million. So we seem to have a far larger priority on roads than it is on the education of our young people, in my mind.

I just wanted to say to the Minister that the Minister recognizes with the French schools that there’s a problem. He says he knows it’s coming. I heard him say earlier that he wants to move or the department wants to move forward, but what I heard is we know there’s a problem, we want to move forward but we have to wait and so we can’t do anything in the meantime. I just see that as a huge lack of planning.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I didn’t sense a question there, but I will allow the Minister to have one final word. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Again, the $290 million is over a five-year period. The DOT, yes, there’s a substantial amount there. Obviously, there’s a major road infrastructure that’s happening. We all know that. There’s a federal contribution as well. So we are putting in a lot more than what’s before us now, $6.5 million. We’ll make it work. Those are the investments going into the communities, and again, we have to plan for next year as well. Next year we obviously want to go after even more funding if at all possible. So those are just some of the discussions that we will have with the Peer Review Committee that has been established for a number of years now.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. We are continuing on with general comments. I have two more Members who want to speak. I know it’s late in the day. I have Mr. Blake and Mr. Nadli. I will go to Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was speaking to capital. I was going to commend the department, both Education and Public Works. They did a good job on a bunch of renovations to the school in Tsiigehtchic, mostly the gymnasium, and also in Fort McPherson preparing for Junior Kindergarten. There were some renovations to a washroom there. The school is very pleased with that.

Yet in Aklavik there were some renovations two years back but the community is wondering why there are no plans for a new school. This school is going on 50 years here. It’s not adequate to provide the proper programs and resources we can offer in today’s age. I know we are scheduled for a major retrofit or replacement in 2019. I would like to know if the department is planning to replace the old school. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Based on, obviously, the capital planning cycle, Moose Kerr School is identified for renovations or replacement in approximately 2019, as the Member has indicated. It’s based on the year of the school, whether it was the year it was built or the year it was retrofitted and 20 years from the date of the last major renovation. So we’re at that point. In 2019 we want to seriously look at Moose Kerr School in the Member’s riding. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

It kind of makes me wonder a lot of times. Referring to the school in Inuvik, we built a nice building there. Yet we didn’t add on other programs that could be provided. For example, shop. Looking at schools down south, they have a nice section there, three-bay garage and they can offer automotives in high school. Yet we build a $100 million new school that doesn’t have facilities like that. Those are the kind of programs I’m thinking of. We want our students to grow up, take on trades and be mechanics and welders, yet we

don’t have those simple programs offered in our schools today. That’s why I want to know if the Minister will ensure the school will be replaced in 2019.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Again, with a process of 20 years from the date of the last major renovation in 1999, the Moose Kerr School will be up to be identified as either a renovation or a replacement. So that discussion will be happening. Part of the discussion that the Member was alluding to was will there be a physical fitness area or even a trace area, a shop. Those are discussions that need to happen with the school boards, as well, because we have to work with architecture and schematic designs and so forth and working very closely with PWS.

So those types of discussions, which we’re hearing today, will be part of our ongoing discussions as we move towards 2019, whether it will be a renovation or replacement of Moose Kerr School. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Last on my list for general comments I have Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’ll try to keep my comments as brief as I can. The department, of course, is the second largest in this budget and we’re seeing schools and, at the same time, languages and also training and income support initiatives. So, overall, I think the main concern that I express is the status of some initiatives. In particular the Junior Kindergarten initiative, perhaps if you could maybe term it JK versus Aboriginal Head Start program. I understand that that’s going forward, but I understand there have been some concerns in terms of how it is that that program would go ahead. I look forward to trying to understand the status of how that’s going and how those two initiatives could work together.

The other matter that I wanted to highlight is the JK and the Aboriginal Head Start initiative are likely one of a few steps that could be made in terms of trying to clear the disparity between how our students in the small communities perform in terms of their achievements versus students from the larger centres. That too is something that I’d like to perhaps see if there are any advancements being made to try to make the situation better so students in smaller communities could fare well in terms of their achievement tests.

In terms of languages, we all know that the language use is declining. The greater question is: Well, what are we doing now to address it? I mean, a common question more likely asked and I’d like to understand how it is the department is going to advance language initiatives.

Last but not least, I know a part of the language initiative is to support NCS and CKLB. I know CKLB, at this point, has downgraded their services,

staff have been cut back in terms of working at the station and the programming has been affected. How is this department, through the Minister, been trying to remedy that matter and get CKLB back on the air? I’d like to know that too.

There are some communities that are trying to make advances towards working in the forest industry, and I think through Education, Culture and Employment training is an element that I think is key, and I’d like to know how this department will work in that area to help communities prepare their workers to be involved with forest initiatives.

Those are just some brief comments and some questions that I wanted to ask. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Although a lot of the items brought forward, Mr. Nadli, are operational in nature, I will allow the Member to complete his list. I will then turn it over to Minister Lafferty, if he’d like to address some of those concerns. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Obviously, my department has been working with Deh Gah Got’ie school and also the Head Start programming. When we first introduced Junior Kindergarten in that community, my department has been actively engaged with conversation with the organization because we wanted to make it work. There is a morning program and there is an afternoon program that I believe has been agreed to and currently it’s working but, mind you, there is always areas of improvement. We are very closely monitoring that, not only that but the other 22 communities as well. Obviously, we want to work closely together with Aboriginal Head Start, whether it be the council organization, because they deliver the federal programming. Federal program is only half a day, so I provide JK as an option, whether as a half-day or full-day Junior Kindergarten.

The Member also raised larger centres versus smaller centres. We are fully aware of that. Again, you touched on the programming itself. The whole Education and Innovation Renewal will embark on the small communities as equal in the program delivery as the larger centres, and they should be producing the same graduates as well. That’s what we’ve been told over and over, and that is our overall goals and objectives, to make that happen with the Education Renewal and Innovation, Mr. Chair.

The language initiative is very key within my department. That’s my we have established an Aboriginal Languages Secretariat that will deal with that initiative with the communities and with the regions for culture preservation and also our language. How can we promote even more of those? CKLB is one of the linkages to that. CKLB, as you know, deals with Aboriginal languages, communicating to the communities, and we have been active and engaged partnership in CKLB. We

have provided our contribution on an annual basis and we are up to date on our contribution. The federal government, there is a bit of a challenge there. I am meeting with the federal Minister, Ms. Shelly Glover, on November 19th , and that will be

one of the ticket items that I will be addressing with the federal Minister because this is a huge concern for me, as well, representing the Northwest Territories, that CKLB shall be back up and running.

The training, there is various training that will be happening. One of the Members alluded to the forestry industry, how we can best deliver that. Again, we need to work with Aurora College in this capacity. There is also School of Community Government training that happens as well. There are all these different venues that we have to make sure it takes place in the communities. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. If there are no more general comments, does committee agree to proceed to detail?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Committee, I would like to turn your attention to page 11 in the capital estimates. We will defer that until after detail. Committee, page 12, Education, Culture and Employment, education and culture, infrastructure investments, $5.826 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Committee, I would like to turn your attention to page 14, labour development. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have a question here with this CMAS Business Intelligence Project. It doesn’t indicate in the budget what program this is for, and I believe this project has been ongoing for a number of years. I just wondered: when will this project end? It looks like it is ‘16-17, but how much is going to be spent in ‘16-17 in addition to what we are spending this year? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that response we’ll go to Ms. Allison.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Allison

Thank you, Mr. Chair. For the CMAS, this portion is CMAS Business Intelligence and this program has been funded for three consecutive years, so it started this fiscal year. It continues next year and then it finishes in ‘16-17. This portion of CMAS is to provide greater reporting capabilities, and it’s application software that will enhance the analysis of operational data and improve decision-making. It provides a comprehensive business intelligence solution for program and divisional managers to help them perform strategic and management reporting. In the

past we have had CMAS projects go forward but they had different deliverables with them, so this is the business intelligence module.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Allison. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to further clarify, this part of CMAS applies right across the whole Department of Education, or is it specific to a certain area? That’s what I was trying to get at in the beginning.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Mr. Heide.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Heide

We have to understand that CMAS isn’t just one system. It’s actually a number of systems, probably about a dozen that are held together. The business intelligence tool allows you to look across these very different systems and apply some trending data, apply some rigor to some of the analysis that you can do across all the systems. So even though CMAS sounds like one system, it is actually you have income assistance in there, seniors’ fuel subsidy, daycare user subsidy, apprentice training and a number of other programs, so the business intelligence tool allows you to look across all these programs and make some good policy and program decisions based on good, accurate data.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Heide. Again, committee, we’re on page 14, labour development and standards. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a quick follow-up to that. I see we have spent quite a bit on this last year and we’re planning to spend more. Whereabouts are we? Are we on budget with this or is the budget increasing on this project?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Over the years this has been one of the targeted initiatives, and we’re on budget.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Again, committee, page 14, labour development and standards, infrastructure investments, $731,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. If I can get committee to return to page 11 for total infrastructure investments, Education, Culture and Employment, total infrastructure investments, $6.557 million. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just given the comments the Minister has heard and the fact that this is probably one of our biggest deficits in infrastructure and for years now we’re refusing to acknowledge that and respond despite the Members’ input, what is the Minister’s plans to

come forward with a much more responsible capital budget next year, or at least recommendations for the 18th Assembly? Once again here we’re leaving

the 18th Assembly with all these deficits because of

our failure.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Lafferty.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. As part of the process, obviously, it needs a needs assessment and also needs analysis from the communities when it comes to major renovations or retrofits of schools or educational infrastructure. Those are areas that we’ll be focusing and putting that forward as part of the capital planning process. This year we have done that. We’re going to do the same next year, as well, and the following years. What we’re hearing from the Members is focusing on those most needed. I can assure the Members that this will be my push again next year with the peer review, the committee that has been established to deal with all the capital infrastructure. The Minister responsible for Education will definitely push that forward. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

It sounds good. No evidence. Will we be talking about this before the 18th Assembly,

or are we leaving the budget to the 18th Assembly?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

As you know, we go through an annual capital infrastructure review. It usually happens during the summertime and then on to the fall time, as we did this time around. Obviously, next year is an election year, but this is an area that we need to focus on where to best invest in. Obviously, the 18th Assembly, the

government, will also decide where to invest. We are also waiting on the federal government as part of the borrowing limit and focusing in those areas as well.

So there are a lot of areas where there’s uncertainty, but at the same time we will be putting a plan in place to deal with those areas that Members referred to today as we move forward on various important topics of discussion when it comes to infrastructure. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Committee, we are on page 11, Education, Culture and Employment, total infrastructure investments, $6.557 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree we have concluded consideration of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. I would like to thank Minister Lafferty today and Ms. Allison and Mr. Heide for joining us today. If I could

get the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort our witnesses out of the Chamber. With that, committee, noting the clock, I will now rise and report progress.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Good evening, colleagues. Can I have the report of Committee of the Whole, Mr. Dolynny?

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Tabled Document 115-17(5), Northwest Territories Capital Estimates 2015-2016, and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Do I have a seconder to the motion? Mr. Abernethy.

---Carried

Item 22, third reading of bills.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

Orders of the day for Tuesday, October 21, 2014, at 1:30 p.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’

Statements

3. Members’

Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Acknowledgements

7. Oral

Questions

8. Written

Questions

9. Returns to Written Questions

10. Replies to Opening Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

18. First Reading of Bills

19. Second Reading of Bills

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act

- Bill 27, Miscellaneous Statute Law

Amendment Act, 2014

- Bill 29, Human Tissue Donation Act

- Bill 30, An Act to Amend the Public Service

Act

- Bill 32, An Act to Amend the Pharmacy Act

- Committee Report 7-17(5), Report on the

Development of the Economic Opportunities and Mineral Development Strategies

- Tabled Document 115-17(5), Northwest

Territories Capital Estimates 2015-2016

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

23. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Tuesday, October 21st , at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 6:09 p.m.