Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do.

Thank you. Committee agreed?

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort our guests into the House.

Thank you. Minister McLeod, could you please introduce your guests for us?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To my right I have Mr. David Stewart, president of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation; to my left I have Mr. Jeff Anderson, vice-president of finance and infrastructure of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Is it agreed that we will proceed with general comments for the NWT Housing Corporation? Agreed? First I have on my list Mr. Blake.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have two comments. There’s a huge demand in smaller communities. I represent Fort McPherson, Aklavik and Tsiigehtchic. First off I’d like to commend the department, which has done a pretty good job over the years replacing a lot of the older units. As I go through the communities I represent, there are new places, up and coming new places. In Aklavik at the moment, we have a new Joe Greenland Centre going up and plans next year for a similar type unit in FortMcPherson. The community is very excited for this.

The big demand here is new units. As the community members are moving back from going

to school or working in other communities, there’s a big shortage of housing units, especially in Aklavik. We have a waiting list of up to two years that some people have been waiting and some even longer. So there’s a big demand for multiplex units and duplex units that’s needed in the community. I would like to ask the Minister what the plans are moving forward to fill this demand.

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We try to ensure that all our communities are adequately housed. I think if you look in the business plans that we’re debating today, you’ll see for 2015-16, we’ve got two replacement public housing units for Aklavik as well as we have some major M and I’s. Part of the reason for the waiting list in the community – and I’m not sure about the exact waiting list in Aklavik, I think it’s about 22 people who are on the waiting list – we recognize that the demand is out there for more multiplex units and more units for singles. That’s the direction I think we’re starting to go in. We have a lot of older detached units that are costing us a lot to maintain and they are not as in demand as they used to be. With replacement units, I think you’ll find we are replacing a lot of the older five-bedroom units that there really is no more demand for. Thank you.

As I mentioned earlier, there are plans for an elders complex in Fort McPherson. I know they are planning on setting up a solar panel unit for this building. I wonder if there’s any other plan to tie in biomass as well.

We appreciate the Member’s comments before about noticing a lot of the newer units going up in the communities. We appreciate that and it’s a good idea for some of the work that we’re trying to do in addressing some of the issues with housing.

The solar panels, we’re looking forward to seeing how they work. Biomass is not one that is slated for these particular projects, but it is something that we are exploring when we are putting up our other infrastructure. We’ll be looking at that. Of course, with the declining CMHC funding, we’ll have to find ways to try and cut back on our expenses and this seems to be the way to go. We are excited about the possibility of solar panels in Aklavik and I think in Fort McPherson that’s the plan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just one more question. In Tsiigehtchic we have a unit that caught on fire I believe almost a year ago now. What are the plans for the department moving forward? Are they going to retrofit it or are they going to tear it down and build a new one? What are the plans moving forward? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I believe that was a HELP unit. I don’t think it was a public housing unit. So we’ll have to go in there and if it’s one of our units, we’ll have to take the steps we need to retrofit the unit. I’ll follow up on that and share the information I gather with the Member.

Just to clarify, that was a housing unit, single dwelling, two single dwelling units, and a duplex. That’s good news. I’ll wait to hear for an update. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Blake. That was more of a comment, so I’ll go to my next individual. I have Mr. Yakeleya, followed by Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, along with Mr. Blake, have a great need for units in our communities. I have had conversations earlier with the Housing Minister in the House and in meetings about the empty units in Fort Good Hope. I know Mr. McLeod talked about the liabilities and the assessments of these empty units and if they could be either turned over to the community or looked at to see if they could be released to the community because there are a lot of houses in Fort Good Hope boarded up with plywood on the windows and doors. I know the community has a great demand for these units that are needed for the people who need housing in that community.

Also, just recently an elder’s house burned just a couple of days ago, yesterday I believe, and now the community is trying to find a unit for him. This particular elder is very independent, very proud, and it would be nice to look at some of these types of units that can be made available for that elderly person in Fort Good Hope and also for that young man and his wife in Colville Lake. Now they have to go look at other places to bunk up for this fall and winter. Could they not have a place for these types of situations that are unforeseen and unexpected?

I want to ask the Minister how far he has gone in regard to looking at these empty units in Fort Good Hope. I know the land corporation is anxiously waiting to see if these units can be turned over to them so that they can do some of their own work and get some of the units open for their membership and also for that young couple in Colville Lake to be on the priority list.

At the same time, I’m looking forward to seeing the winter road so supplies can be driven into Fort Good Hope for their multiplex unit, I think it’s a seniors unit that for some reason was delayed, and hopefully this year it can be built this summer in Fort Good Hope. I do want to say that I look forward to the releasing and the discussion of the upcoming 2014 Community Survey Report and some changes that may be coming because of the report. I hope it’s good news from the 2009 Community Survey Report.

The Minister has done quite well, I’ve got to say to the staff, because of the declining of the federal funding. That means that we as government have to take on some of these additional responsibilities because of the cutbacks the federal government is giving to us.

I’m looking for some ways that we can have some of these units coming to our community. They will still be stick built. Some of the units that we’re now getting are prefab and they’re quicker units coming into our communities for housing for our people, especially in Tulita. I know in Deline they are looking forward to their units being built and retrofitted there.

I want to ask the Minister to reply on some of the points that I’ve just outlined here as to the housing situation and if there is any type of plans to look at apprenticeships within the housing association with our local staff, people in the communities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Member’s comments about the Housing Corp has done quite well. We always look for some positive feedback and we appreciate that.

As far as the empty units in Fort Good Hope, we have had some preliminary discussions with the community and private individuals on those units. The one thing we want to make sure of is that we do our assessments to make sure they’re free from any hazardous type of material before we put them out, and when we do put them out, our preference would be to go to a full public process where everybody has an opportunity to access these units. So I think we’ve done our assessments, and again, once we put these units out we’ll make sure that everybody has equal access to putting a bid in on them and we’re open to selling some of these units. We want to make sure that we’re not selling units that may have potential liabilities. So, that work is just being completed and then we look to have them out soon.

The apprentices, we have 10 apprentices right now and we’re looking at options of maybe adding more in the future because we’ve been encouraged by the results of the apprentices that we have had in the communities. Again, I think it’s through the support of the committee that we report to that we’ve been able to undertake a lot of these initiatives.

I think the Member was speaking to the folks in Colville Lake. I’m not sure what their options are in Colville Lake, if it was a homeownership unit that they were staying in, then that may change the dynamics. I’m not sure if we have any units in the community that are readily available. So we have to look at, you know, it’s unfortunate that when these

situations happen where someone’s private house burns down and without the proper coverage it makes it difficult on them and then Housing is asked to step in and provide accommodations. I’m sure we would consider assisting where we can. Again, we have to ensure that, you know, we have a number of people that are waiting for units, and we have to look at every situation on a case-by-case basis.

I believe I touched on most of the Member’s points, and if I didn’t, I apologize and I’m sure he’ll remind me. Thank you.

I want to ask the Minister, given the move to more ownership with the homeowners and purchasing a home, has the corporation looked at one- or two-bedroom units that are simple, that are very small? There’s an advertisement in the Edmonton Sun, a full-page ad on a development called Knotty Pine, I believe. They offer so much for a unit, there’s a couple of units. We thought that would be something that for the homeowners themselves to purchase through a housing program or pilot program.

There are a lot of individuals that are bachelors and a lot of individuals are also staying with their family members. There are also young families just wanting to get their own places. Is this something that the Housing Corp has looked at? Is it something that is feasible in the North or is it something we could look at that would build skill and provide some value to the homeowners to know what it’s like to have a house and have these units in our community, or just a pilot project? I’m looking at this concept. That’s just a discussion that we can float around to look at.

I’m a very big advocate for Housing to get more apprenticeships into the communities. The economy doesn’t really quite call for having contractors readily available, and if they are they’re quite busy. If they are there they also have other jobs, so a lot of people have to wait. Sometimes the materials and supplies are not always readily available and I know that the Housing Corporation, the housing associations, they do the best that they can to make sure that their supplies are in stock for their own public housing units, and if they have other additional surplus parts in supply, they could sell them to the homeowners for repairs. It becomes very challenging sometimes because the cost of bringing in some of these household supplies, it’s just out of this world. I say that personally because I bought something for the washrooms and paid double the price to install and had to pay a plumber to bring it in and install it for me, so it was close to $1,000. If you look at Yellowknife, it’s one-third of that cost. So those are some of the simple things that could help private homeowners. I ask the Minister if he could continue

to research and see if this is something that we could see in the 17th . Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thirty-seven thousand five hundred dollars is what those packages cost, I’ve seen the ad. We’re open to just about anything as long as they meet our standards, and you know, we’ll consider just about any option that’s out there. I think, if anything, the corporation has proven in the last little while that they’re fairly flexible and everything’s not written in stone as it was in the past. So, we’re fairly flexible and we want to work with homeowners. Again, there are options for them to purchase existing homes if they’re approved for our homeownership program. So we want to work with them. We’ve had some discussions as to if someone is paying for their own home, we may give them more options that they can choose from, kind of like a catalogue of different options. If they’re paying for it, then they should have that option.

One of the challenges we face in the North, especially in a lot of the smaller communities where materials aren’t readily available, and I used to think that we were never set up to account for the sale of material to individuals in the community; however, that’s something that we can have a look at to try to make some material available. Of course, we don’t want it affecting our ability of our LHO to do their work, but if there are opportunities there to make some small stuff available, then I think we would have to have a look at that because, as you said, Mr. Yakeleya, some small communities are challenged to get in particular parts and they are very costly. So if we can assist that way, then we’ll look at maybe setting something up to do that.

I can warn everybody, let everybody know right now, there’s going to be no charge account set up. It’s got to be cash on delivery. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Next I have on the list for general comments is Mr. Menicoche, followed by Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. We have an ambitious plan here for delivery into our small communities, and I just wanted to commend the Minister and the staff that working with the committee and trying to find an equal balance here. The biggest thing was about addressing devolution, or decentralization, getting jobs out to the community, and I think that the plan somewhat addresses that.

I don’t have too much to say specifically on the capital, but I’m more interested, if you’ll give me the leeway there, Mr. Chair, on the release of the latest housing needs survey and when that will be done.

As well, another thing that constituents have often been asking me is about the income threshold

level; I think it’s called SNIP. Now when they’re applying for the affordable housing units, some constituents find themselves in double income situations where their household income is above the threshold limit, and I’ve always felt, and I’ve raised this to the Minister before, that those are the clients that we want to be in these housing units. They’re the ones that would be able to consistently make the mortgage payments; they are the ones that won’t be in an affordability situation.

I am just wondering if the department had a chance to review the income threshold limits when we are delivering our program, because I really feel that it will help. Sometimes they are in a small community, they are in an older house, but yet they cannot get access to the housing program to get themselves into a newer house, perhaps even freeing up the older house to other people in the community that want to try living on their own and start a home situation. So, just those couple of issues there, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We plan on having a briefing with committee, I think next week, on the latest findings and Community Needs Survey. So we are looking forward to having that discussion with them that I think is taking place next week. Again, we appreciate the Member’s comments on commending the corporation on the work that they are doing.

As far as the income threshold, when they are applying for the PATH program, the pathway to homeownership, we increased the threshold because we heard the concern that there were a lot of people that were just over SNIP and not being able to qualify for any more programs. It makes sense that if you are in a smaller community and if you have a couple of empty units there, you have somebody that might be just over SNIP. The pieces should fit and, of course, they should have the ability to maintain the unit, and that is one of the big things that we look at, is their ability to maintain the unit. We have run into too many cases in the past where we have put people in units that were just below SNIP and then they find out that they couldn’t afford it. That is something that we’re changing.

On the CARE side of it, the homeownership repair, if you have high income earners that are living in their own house, and we really haven’t raised the core need income threshold for that because it is a repair program. If they are higher income earners, then they should have the ability to do some of the work. You know, if you do it in stages and that, then it doesn’t get to a point where they have to apply for housing for a $92,000 CARE package to fix up their house. We have had pretty good success with that. Our CARE numbers are actually going down. The

people who are subscribing to CARE are actually going down.

But on the homeownership side, that is one that we want to concentrate on and ensure that we have folks that are just getting started and maybe making a little bit more. Those are the people that we would like to target and get them into homeownership because we feel that they will be successful clients. Thank you, Mr. Chair.