This is page numbers 5001 – 5032 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Topics

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

[Microphone turned off] …question number four is when. I will find out for the Member. We would like to start the work as soon as possible. There are other ways the community can access some money to pay for these through the money that we provide for them. There is also some money through the ground ambulance funding that we provide to get a particular type and model that’s available to use in vehicles of first responders.

We started the work. The work is underway, and once we get the results of all the work and the survey, we will be sure to share that information with Members of the Legislative Assembly and members of the committee. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions will be directed towards the Premier. In my Member’s statement I talked about the northern residents tax deduction.

My question would be to the Premier as such, which is: When is the last time this government or any recent previous government has requested an increase to the northern tax deduction, and if there has been one in recent years, would he have anything to substantiate that so we could see what type of letter or correspondence on the particular issue has been done and certainly what work has been made on this particular issue that can help the working poor and certainly make a big difference in the everyday family’s bottom line? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On January 1, 2008, the northern residents deduction was increased 10 percent, from $5,475 to $6,022.50, the first increase since 1991. Our government has been working with the governments of Nunavut and Yukon to look at requesting an increase in the northern resident deduction. Three territorial Finance Ministers

reviewed this, and on October 31, 2012, the Finance Ministers reported to the Northern Premiers’ Forum and also outlined a possible work plan.

Their report noted that increasing the northern resident deduction would decrease personal income tax revenues for federal, territorial and some provincial governments. It would not benefit low-income families and would only benefit high-income northern taxpayers. In addition, we would require the support of six provinces whose northern residents also receive the northern resident deduction would need to be reconfirmed. At the time, we decided it was not in the best interest of our low-income families to pursue this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, what analysis really is broken out of this low-income factor? The Premier is right; it’s more than one jurisdiction. As a matter of fact, there is the A-base and there is the B-base, and the A-base, for sake of illustration, is the three territories. The B-base, which is a lesser tax deduction, affects places like northern Alberta, northern Saskatchewan and works its way across Canada. But with that illustration, we should be really asking ourselves, how do we encourage people to live here in the Northwest Territories, and by waving off those folks for whom this could make a difference is certainly staring down the situation in the wrong way.

What analysis do we really know? What type of impact? Would our government be prepared to do that type of analysis to find out would it still benefit all Northerners at large? If you don’t have a paycheque, it doesn’t matter what the tax deduction is. It’s the working poor and those people trying to continue to find the North still attractive. That analysis is critical. I look forward to the Premier’s answer on that particular effort. Thank you.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

The tax collection agreement between the Northwest Territories and Canada requires that both jurisdictions use the same definition of taxable income. A northern resident deduction increase would reduce federal and territorial personal income tax revenue. In our forensic review, the 2008 increase in the northern resident deduction raised the maximum deduction to $6,022.50. At the highest combined federal and territorial tax rate of 43.5 percent, the $547.50 increase would provide annual savings of $235 for tax filers claiming the maximum $6,022.50. The Government of the Northwest Territories’ annual costs for this federal tax measure is about $800,000 per year.

Undoubtedly, a northern resident deduction increase would provide an incentive for people to stay in the North, but we’ve looked at the numbers. Say we wanted to get the federal government to increase the northern resident deduction by $700 a

year. Let’s say we go from $6,022.50 to $6,728. The estimated cost to our government is $720,000. Let’s say we want to increase it even further from $6,022.50 to $8,500. It’s going to cost our government an extra $2.46 million a year.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I’m a little confused on the particular part about it actually particularly causing our government grief, if not financial, on the money on the bottom line. Maybe the Premier can illustrate why it actually costs us money when it’s a federal tax credit. That’s the area we should be arguing for. At the same time, this could be what starts to underpin successful growth in our territorial population, because right now we have very little.

The Premier, I think, said earlier today that we subsidize to the tune of $190 million. In that range. I mean, the exact number is not so important at this second, but the point is that we’re trying to find ways to grow our population. This is certainly one that would help those who can certainly make some money. Has the Premier considered that? We don’t need the permission of the other six provinces. We need Ottawa’s permission on this type of initiative.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

The reason it costs us money is it reduces the amount of personal income tax that we collect. For example, the 2008 increase, since the claimed amount must be the lesser of the maximum allowable of $6,022.50 and 20 percent of net income, taxpayers with net income of less than $30,115 will not benefit from a northern resident deduction increase.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the answer from the Premier. I mean, it certainly goes a long way of appreciating the complexity of this issue. The bottom line is, how are we putting more money in Northerners’ pockets? It had been frozen at approximately $5,400 for decades and finally migrated by 10 percent to just above $6,000 in 2008. The bottom line is, how do we get money in Northerners’ pockets, because we know more money in a family’s pocket is really going out into the community to buy that Klik, my colleague from the Sahtu had said, whether it’s buying gasoline for their skidoos, or buying their children presents and helping to pay that costly rent and stuff. It’s initiatives like this the Government of the Northwest Territories can shelter the cost of it a little better by letting working people keep some of their working money.

Would the Premier re-examine it from that analysis, that if we can get more money in Northerners’ pockets, no doubt they’ll be spending it in our economy where it’s exactly where we would be doing it anyway?

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

That is our objective and we want to get more money in Northerners’ pockets.

We’re always being very vigilant in this area as well as looking in other areas such as reducing energy costs, so the Energy Charrette, we expect, will go a long ways to that end as well.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to talk about a dream that I always had, and one day that dream will become a reality. That dream is the idea of a potato farm. We can make it happen. I’d like to pose a question to the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

I want to know how responsive the Minister and this Cabinet and this government is to people out in the communities, because when you travel into the communities, people know some of the solutions to the problems that we face and the challenges that we have to meet every day that we live in communities.

The potato, of course, people know of the history of the people that came up North, and they grew their own gardens. One of the durable products that I’ve come to know is the potato. We have the right soil. In Fort Providence it’s a durable staple. Plus, at the same time, we’re situated right in the hub of the transportation where we have the river system and we have the highway system. It wouldn’t take much if there was an idea of planting an area of potatoes and building a processing facility to sell and market them and lessen the cost of living.

The question that I have is for the Minister of ITI. Does the Minister agree that this is a good idea and can be done and that this will probably curb the cost of goods in the North?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’ve made great strides when it comes to developing an agricultural industry here in the Northwest Territories. The Member has a good idea. I was with the Member recently this summer and we traveled down the river and there were farms historically near the community of Fort Providence. We’d certainly like to see some of that agricultural initiative renewed, and we have programs in place at ITI, working through our South Slave office, to support individuals in the Member’s community that want to get involved with agriculture. We’ve seen success stories around the Northwest Territories when you look at communities like Norman Wells, Gameti recently. If you can get somebody in the community and identify a real

community leader to take on that initiative, that would be a good start.

Of course, we have the Northern Farm Training Institute that just recently received some federal funding, and hopefully some folks from Fort Providence can attend that training institute and bring those skills back to the community of Fort Providence.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

I take that the Minister does, in fact, agree and support the idea of a potato farm.

With that, what is his department prepared to do to assist individuals or groups that want to grow products such as potatoes or even community gardens in their home community?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Yes, we do support the development of agriculture in the Member’s riding and all ridings across the Northwest Territories. I’d encourage anybody from the Member’s communities, if they are interested in pursuing initiatives, to contact us at our South Slave office in Hay River and we’d be more than happy to help them out.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Why can’t we make this work? This is a very practical, doable idea, and what is stopping this Minister and this Cabinet and this government of addressing a very practical need in communities? These are ideas that come from people in the communities. They know. If it was a person from the average community, you would want to know. Why can’t this be done now?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

The success that we’ve seen in some other communities around the Northwest Territories has been initiated by a real community leader, somebody that is very interested in seeing that project advance. That’s why, as I mention earlier, the Farm Training Institute is so important, so that people can go to Hay River, get some training, go back to their communities and be real community leaders when it comes to developing agriculture in the communities.

Again, I’d ask the Member, if he’s got somebody in his community that is interested, we are here to help. We’d be more than happy to help community leaders and community members develop agriculture products in the communities to help offset the high cost of food in our communities.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will give the Minister a last chance.

Does he agree and support the idea of a potato farm in Fort Providence? Yes or no.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I prefer my potatoes with mushrooms. Yes, if we can advance that idea, I would certainly support that idea.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we embark on what appears to be another fact-finding Energy Charrette, the second one in as little as two years, the residents of NWT are again waiting for real, affordable solutions to lower their energy costs. With the cost of living the hallmark of concern, many believe this Energy Charrette will be added to a long list of productions already archived on dusty shelves. With very little given to the public or Members as to its mandate, I will have questions today for the man of the hour, the Premier of the Northwest Territories.

As mentioned, we are about to embark on what is about to be our second Energy Charrette in less than two years. Can the Premier clearly articulate what is the specific mandate for this upcoming charrette? Thank you.