This is page numbers 5001 – 5032 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Topics

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Next week we will be having the Energy Charrette. The charrette is meant to look at the cost of power and costs of energy in the Northwest Territories, probably one of the biggest costs that most of our constituents currently have. The government is touting this as the opportunity for us to look at all the solutions for the cost of living, but I’m very concerned.

We had an Energy Charrette a couple of years ago, with limited successes. We talked about a power supply system that would link all our grids together, which we know is now ineffective cost-wise, as well as the lack of our borrowing limit. The other issue such as gas prices is always on the constituents’ minds, and one of those factors is our gas taxes. Last week I was asking questions about the reduction of that tax. We should be looking at that type of stuff.

The other area a couple of the Members have talked about in studying taxation is northern residency limiting from the federal government. We know that this has not changed very much. We see in the south where they allow cross-border shopping to increase the volume so that the people down there can live cheaper. What have Northerners had for a tax increase from the federal government? Very little.

Obviously, in this Energy Charrette I hope we’re talking about conservation as well. We need to learn to do more with less. We need to figure out the way that our costs of living are high. A lot of the discussions lately have been about these small houses. What are we doing with them? What’s the potential for that? I have several constituents that are talking about trying to be off the grid as much as they can. We obviously know in the Hay River area there are a lot of people involved in agriculture, trying to replace foods that they’re purchasing currently at the grocery store and reducing those costs.

We need to work at this problem at several different angles.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the most part, when people think about the cost of living, they gravitate to the high price of energy they pay. This would be a normal reaction given that we in the NWT face some of the highest energy costs in the modern world. Admittedly, when asked how to fix this, I’m sure many would point to such alternatives as wind and solar as a way to wean ourselves off fossil fuel.

These alternatives do have merit on displacing carbon emission by lowering diesel consumption, yet from an economic or commercial viability perspective, you would be lucky to recover your capital costs within 15 to 20 years, and by then you’re almost at the point of replacement, so the vicious cycle repeats itself.

To be clear, I’m not saying we shouldn’t make some strategic investments in alternative energies as part of our Energy Strategy, and I am supportive of decreasing our diesel use and carbon emission, but we need to realize that with such a costly capital investment, we are no further ahead of lowering our cost of energy to the consumer, and this needs to be our target.

What is the answer? Well, if you want to wait, as Cabinet suggests, for next month’s costly Energy Charrette and for their report and then a committee report to that and then a Cabinet strategy and then, finally, an action plan, you’ll soon realize that the life of the 17th Assembly will have expired, which is

very convenient. Or we can immediately or economically unlock the power within. But before I give you one solution, which is staring us in the face, let’s ask some questions.

How do we better harness our own production and storage of energy? How well do we manage and produce our own diesel power? Finally, how much unused energy goes up the stovepipe at our diesel power plants? Mr. Speaker, if I have you curious, this continues down the rabbit hole.

After doing a forensic look at more than the $300 million worth of NTPC infrastructure, its production, its capacity and its geolocation, there was one conclusion that emerged that will lower our energy production at the source: recapture unused energy and economically lower our cost of energy in non-hydro communities, and ultimately have a trickle effect for all Northerners.

The solution: The earth is a battery of heat storage potential.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

What this means is we have the capacity to recapture NTPC diesel-produced stovepipe heat, dissipate this heat into the ground, store it in earth tubes and reverse the energy in the winter months via utilidor exchange to heat homes and buildings. This process has many names, such as ground-coupled heat exchange or air-to-soil exchange, yet the principles of these processes all produce the same effect, which is to offer viable and economic alternatives in conjunction with lower diesel consumption.

With the government clearly out of ideas as we embark on yet another Energy Charrette, many Northerners hope this is just not another attempt to shelve at nothingness. We need economic and viable options for energy cost today, and we need real solutions we can all afford. Let’s hope the Cabinet is listening. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No one who lives in the Northwest Territories would deny that the cost of living in the Northwest Territories is something that we need to concern ourselves with and where the government should be investing wisely and prudently to help the overall mitigation of that cost of living.

I think, as a government, we’ve talked about all the many subsidies that we contribute to try to help people with the cost of living, but I think we need to look for ways to empower people to make choices to control, as much as they can, their cost of living as well.

I know maybe this is a broken record, but I had proposed in this House a number of years ago that our government could be doing more to empower people with choices. People feel trapped. That’s the problem, is that people feel trapped in the utilities and the heating and the cost of all the day-to-day things that Ms. Bisaro listed off. Many of those do come with personal choices, as well, and sometimes I think, if I may say, we also need to manage our expectations a little bit as well. Sometimes people do not attempt to live within their means.

Mr. Speaker, my clock is running out. I can’t believe that was two and a half minutes, was it? It must have been set wrong. Was it? Okay, I’ll seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement, but I feel like I just started talking. Thank you.

---Unanimous consent granted

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

I’m going to go back and check Hansard and see how many words I actually got in in that two and a half minutes.

People need to manage their expectations. We need to empower people to give them choices and options of how they can control their cost of living. People also need to take personal responsibility.

You know, I’m probably not going to be the most popular MLA in the Northwest Territories for saying this right now, but when we talk about the cost of living in all these communities, wouldn’t it be an interesting exercise to see in every community of the Northwest Territories how much people have to spend on cigarettes, alcohol, drugs and gambling. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I represent one of the second-most-expensive ridings in the Northwest Territories, next to yourself that is.

My constituents pay the most in this territory for home heating fuel, diesel and gasoline. Diesel in Tsiigehtchic, for example, is $2.05 per litre, which is subsidized, by the way. Gasoline is $1.92 per litre.

We’re actually lucky because the price went down by 12 cents. So you can imagine how much our people are paying up in the Beaufort-Delta and Mackenzie Delta.

Groceries are another thing that’s the most expensive. For one litre of milk in Tsiigehtchic, we pay $7.99. For 10 kilograms of flour, $39.99, and that’s the three communities I represent. Eggs, $6.99 for a dozen. Bacon is anywhere from $8.99 to $26 depending on what type we get. With an employment rate of 35 percent, you can tell how our people are struggling in the northern communities.

One of our priorities is to lower the cost of living. This is something that we really need to focus on within our last year here as the 17th Legislative

Assembly.

I look forward to what the government has in store and I’ll have questions later for the Minister. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Ms. Bisaro.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t often get a chance to recognize my one hardworking staff, my constituency assistant, Ms. Amanda Mallon, and it’s a really special day for her. Not quite as special as Mrs. Groenewegen assistant’s day, but happy birthday, Amanda.

---Applause

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Dolynny.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to introduce to you and through you a resident of Range Lake sitting with us today here, Mr. David Wasylciw. Mr. Wasylciw just launched a brand new resource website today called opennwt.ca. Congratulations, David.

---Applause

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Bromley.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d also like to recognize a couple of hardworking constituency assistants, both of whom are residents of Weledeh. Of course my CA, Bob Wilson, a long-time businessman and involved in many aspects of the community with the city and so on. Also, Amanda Mallon, another Weledeh resident involved in many aspects of our community in the NWT. A big welcome to David Wasylciw as well. Mahsi.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Thank you for taking in our proceedings here today. Welcome to the House.

Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. The Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to ask the Premier, the honourable Mr. McLeod, some questions on the cost of living.

What is this government’s plan as we move forward to lower the cost of living in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. The honourable Premier, Mr. McLeod.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This government is doing a tremendous amount to reduce the cost of living. We subsidize the cost of living to the tune of about $200 million a year. We are organizing an Energy Charrette to give more personal responsibility to the people so that they can become more independent through energy generation, and we are also investing in infrastructure as we find that’s the best way to reduce the cost of living. Thank you.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

As I mentioned in my statement, we pay the highest costs for fuel, diesel and gasoline in our region.

I’d like to ask the Premier, is that because we’re trucking this into our territory? Would it be cheaper

if we were to barge this into our territory? Thank you.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Premier

Of course, it would be cheapest to barge or buy it on the offshore and bring it in by tanker and deliver it by barge to the communities. Obviously, if you truck, the more times you handle the molecules, the more expensive it is. We also, in a large part of the communities, can only bring it in once a year. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I think last week, or the week before, I was raising questions with the Premier, but I would like to ask the Minister of Transportation about the cost of delivering fuel.

There is a global oil glut in the world and it’s reducing gas prices across Canada. Why aren’t those gas prices being reduced in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay. Oh sorry, Minister of Transportation, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Actually, under the Department of Public Works and Services we have a petroleum products division. That division is created with a Petroleum Products Revolving Fund. We have a certain amount of money that we use to buy fuel in communities where it is not feasible for anybody else to go into the community to sell fuel. We take communities in this Member’s riding, like Jean Marie, Nahanni, Wrigley and Trout, and in those communities no other supplier wishes to go in there and supply fuel because it’s not feasible. We are bringing it in at cost and the cost to distribute and that is it. We can charge anywhere from 95 percent of what it costs us to 105 percent, but we try to be at 100 percent as much as possible. Thank you.