This is page numbers 5257 – 5290 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was ombudsman.

Topics

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

One of the things we will do for this vital time of the year, I will ensure that the equipment is checked earlier, before it’s needed and to ensure that it’s working. That is one of the things that we will incorporate with that ferry or any ferry that needs a depth sounder to continue to cross the river. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Time for oral questions has expired. Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to turn back to item 8 on the orders of the day.

---Unanimous consent denied

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Item 9, written questions. Item 10, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Return To Written Question 22-17(5): Junior Kindergarten Funding
Returns to Written Questions

November 5th, 2014

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

Mr. Speaker,

I

have a return to Written Question 22-

17(5) asked by Ms. Bisaro on November 3, 2014, to the honourable Jackson Lafferty, Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, regarding Junior Kindergarten funding.

Later today, at the appropriate time,

I

will table

"Funding for Junior Kindergarten Implementation in the 2014-2015 School Year," which provides the allocation, cost share and net impact of Junior Kindergarten for each education authority.

If the number of schools offering Junior Kindergarten remains as it is now, the allocations and cost-sharing amounts in 2015-2016 will remain the same as in the "Funding for Junior Kindergarten Implementation in the 2014-2015 School Year" document.

Mr. Speaker, at this time it is not possible to project changes to these allocations and cost-sharing amounts for the 2015-2016 school year. This is because education authorities have been offered the choice to withdraw from the Junior Kindergarten Program and any such changes would impact the funding to, and cost share by, all education authorities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to return to item 8 on the Order Paper, oral questions. Mahsi.

---Unanimous consent denied

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Item 11, replies to opening address. Item 12, petitions. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, entitled “2013 Public Service Annual Report.” Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, entitled “2013-2014 Report of the Legal Services Board of the NWT.” Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Further to my Return to Written Question 22-17(5), I wish to table the following document, entitled “Funding for Junior Kindergarten Implementation in the 2014-2015 School Year.” Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 15, notices of motion. Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to return to item 8, oral questions, which is on the orders of the day. Thank you.

---Unanimous consent denied

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Colleagues, we are going to call a 15-minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Before we start back into the work of the day, I’d like to welcome back former Speaker and Minister and MLA for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

---Applause

Item 17, motions. Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. WHEREAS this 17th Legislative Assembly has often spoken of and identified openness, transparency and accountability as being of utmost importance to all Members and the people of the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS the Government of the Northwest Territories currently lacks a single point of contact where Northwest Territories residents may take their concerns when they feel they have been impacted by unfair treatment in government administration;

AND WHEREAS with the recent achievement of devolution, the Government of the Northwest Territories has marked a significant milestone in its evolution and has reached an unprecedented level of complexity;

AND WHEREAS the Government of the Northwest Territories has undertaken a review of current

practices which identified more than two dozen pieces of territorial legislation that establish statutory appeal mechanisms – evidence of the complexity of the territorial government that the average citizen has to engage with;

AND WHEREAS nine Canadian provinces and Yukon have parliamentary ombudsman offices;

AND WHEREAS an ombudsman office would complement the work of the Human Rights Commission by providing an advocacy support option for people who have legitimate complaints of unfair treatment not based on human rights grounds;

AND WHEREAS the Human Rights Commission has indicated that they frequently get requests for help from people who have legitimate complaints about government treatment not based on human rights grounds, and that the Human Rights Commission would refer such people to an ombudsman if such an office existed;

AND WHEREAS the need for a territorial ombudsman for the Northwest Territories was first raised in the Legislative Assembly over 20 years ago and was most recently debated in this House on June 8, 2012;

AND WHEREAS, pursuant to Motion 12-17(4) of this Legislative Assembly, the matter of the potential role of a Northwest Territories ombudsman, whether stand-alone or combined with another statutory office, and options for implementing such an office, was referred to the Standing Committee on Government Operations for research, review and analysis;

AND WHEREAS, in response to Motion 12-17(4), the Standing Committee on Government Operations tabled its report on Establishing an Office of the Ombudsman for the Northwest Territories in the Legislative Assembly on June 4, 2014;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Frame Lake, that the government introduce legislation that will establish an ombudsman as an independent and non-partisan statutory officer;

AND FURTHER, that the government, in designing the appropriate legislation, refer to the report produced by the Standing Committee on Government Operations and work closely with the Office of the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly to examine the options of both a stand-alone office and one that might combine with another statutory office.

AND FURTHERMORE, that the government provide a response to this motion within 120 days.

Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today we’re debating a motion requesting that the government introduce legislation that would establish an ombudsman in the Northwest Territories. In June 2014, the Standing Committee on Government Operations tabled a special report on the need for an ombudsman. As the committee chair, it is appropriate for me to provide some opening remarks on this motion.

I’ll begin by describing what an ombudsman is and does. The term “ombudsman” is a fancy term for a citizens’ defender, someone who is a voice for the people and a peacemaker. An ombudsman assists people, free of charge, who feel they have been treated unfairly by government and helps people understand their rights when it comes to government administration.

An ombudsman responds to complaints from the public by conducting confidential investigations and then recommending ways to improve government services. The ombudsman’s office is a place of last resort and it complements existing appeal mechanisms and remedies available through the courts.

An office of the ombudsman would have strong powers of investigation, requires cooperation from all government organizations. However, it would not have the power to change or reverse government decisions. Moral persuasion is a primary tool in the ombudsman toolkit.

Generally, an ombudsman has the power to investigate government departments and certain Crown corporations. However, it would be up to the NWT Legislative Assembly to decide whether to include municipalities, Aboriginal governments, schools and hospitals within the scope of the ombudsman’s mandate.

The ombudsman’s office in the Yukon makes the services available to the Aboriginal governments, but only if they request it. The public may wonder why the Northwest Territories needs an ombudsman. The Standing Committee on Government operations believes it’s an idea whose time has come.

The Government of the Northwest Territories is becoming more complex, especially now that devolution has been achieved. The GNWT talks a lot about transparency and accountability to the public. An ombudsman would help to ensure that the GNWT is on the right track. Although the vast majority of GNWT public servants perform their jobs diligently and conscientiously, mistakes can happen. As well, sometimes there is a systemic unfairness. An ombudsman would be uniquely

positioned to make recommendations for improvements in such instances.

All Canadian jurisdictions except PEI and Nunavut have an ombudsman office. The Yukon combines the ombudsman’s duties with those of the Privacy Commissioner.

The function of an ombudsman is entirely consistent with the principles of consensus government. The method of operation emphasizes sound reasoning, independence and good working relationships.

The GNWT is evolving and becoming a more sophisticated and complicated government. I hope that my colleagues will join me in supporting this motion. The time has come for legislators in the NWT to put in place an office whose key purpose is to promote fairness and assist our people. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. I’ll allow the seconder to the motion, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m very pleased to rise in support of this motion and to be able to speak to the motion that’s before us today.

Although Members on this side of the House and committee have heard considerable support from our constituents and from the general public in support of the establishment of an ombudsman office, there are, unfortunately, still naysayers when it comes to establishing that office in the NWT. I think it’s because many people do not understand how the office can be a good force for government, that it can promote accountability in administration and improve government through investigations.

I’d like to provide some info that backs up what Mr. Nadli has just told us and to help people understand the office of an ombudsman. So what is an ombudsman? I’d like to give you a couple of quotes, one from the Ontario ombudsman website, which says:

“’Ombudsman’ is a Swedish word meaning “citizen’s representative,” an independent official who investigates complaints from the public about mal-administration and government. The first parliamentary ombudsman was created in Sweden in 1809.”

So we’re a little behind the times. “The ombudsman is an officer of the Legislature, independent of government and all political parties.”

From the Yukon website:

“Every day the Yukon government makes decisions and provides services that affect people’s lives. These decisions and services may relate to vehicle registration, student loans, health services, a grant application, or numerous other things. Although many government workers strive to do the best job they can, sometimes problems can develop. If a citizen feels that the Yukon government has

been unfair in making a decision or delivering a service and is unable to resolve the matter, it is essential that they have an independent authority to bring their concern to. Identifying and resolving problems benefits the person who brings the complaint forward, others in the same situation, the government and all citizens of Yukon.”

So what does an ombudsman do? From the Yukon website:

“The ombudsman is an impartial investigator who takes complaints regarding Yukon government services. The ombudsman can independently and impartially look at a matter to see whether or not you’ve been treated fairly. If the ombudsman finds that you have been treated unfairly, he or she can make recommendations to address the unfairness. Independent review of individual complaints can work to improve government administration. We also work to educate the public and government about fairness in administration and the role of our office.”

From the Ontario website about what an ombudsman does:

“The ombudsman investigates public complaints about Ontario government services. These include individual complaints, for example, about bureaucratic delays and major systemic problems affecting thousands or even millions of people. He or she also investigates complaints about closed municipal meetings.”

The description of an ombudsman is very similar no matter where you look. Mr. Nadli cited some, I’ve cited some, and that’s only from two sources, but they are very similar. An ombudsman office oversees all government departments, all boards, corporations, tribunals and agencies. I feel it’s critical that people understand that the office does not duplicate the work of a Member of the Legislative Assembly. That’s a concern that is often expressed to me by our MLAs. Instead, it offers a venue to work with MLAs to help constituents. People need to know that it is an office of last resort, and as such, it is an alternative to court for our residents. In addition, the ombudsman office provides for a single point of entry or contact for residents with complaints about procedural fairness or decisions. It’s also very important to know that an ombudsman recommendation is not binding.

We’ve been discussing the issue of an ombudsman or an ombudsman office as far back as 1992, as mentioned by Mr. Nadli. This description that I’m about to give is from a 1993 NWT standing committee report:

“The ombudsman complements, not replaces, existing institutions in ensuring that the grievances of the public are addressed. Thus,

the ombudsman does not investigate complaints when legal or other remedies are available, but is there to provide a remedy when administrative or other avenues of recourse are unavailable.”

An ombudsman office is independent, reporting to the Legislative Assembly, not the government, and it is exempt from provisions of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act. Any information collected by the ombudsman office is protected and secure. Nothing is released unless the individual involved gives permission for it to be released.

The Ontario ombudsman website lists the five top reasons for complaints, and they are ones that we hear all the time from our constituents: first, wrong, unfair decisions; second, bad service; third, inadequate communication; fourth, unfair policies and procedures; and number five, delays. We hear lots of those. These are all things that apply just as easily to the NWT as they do to Ontario.

The Ontario ombudsman was here earlier this week, and in listening to him discuss his office and the work that he does, I was surprised to learn that it is against the law in Ontario to refuse to comply with an order from the ombudsman office. It is punishable by jail. But it only makes sense. For the office to properly do its job, to fully investigate concerns and problems, the staff must be able to access any documents from any government entity. I think knowing that puts the fear of God into our Cabinet colleagues and contributes to their resistance to establishing this office. It’s the fear of the unknown, the fear of interference. But good, transparent and accountable government should welcome the insight into government practices that an ombudsman can bring.

What does Cabinet have to fear? Nothing, as noted in the 1993 NWT standing committee report. It said:

“The office of ombudsman is a resource to the public administration. The ombudsman is not an adversary of the bureaucracy. Indeed, good relations with the bureaucracy are essential. A properly functioning ombudsman facilitates public confidence in the fairness of the public administration and the intervention of the ombudsman should improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the bureaucracy.”

As noted, we are one of only three jurisdictions in Canada that do not currently have an ombudsman office, and I’ve said many times before, there are innumerable situations where NWT residents could use an ombudsman to assist in solving a dispute or a disagreement or to investigate unfair government decisions or practices.

Government staff generally do a wonderful job for our residents, but there are times when a resident, rightly or wrongly, feels they’ve been treated

unjustly or without fairness. In many cases, they have no option for appeal. Certainly, some organizations and some departments do have an appeal or a complaints process, but if a resident loses on that front there is no other option of appeal except to go to court. We all know residents who are intimated by the court system, and even though they have the courage of their conviction, they firmly believe they have been unfairly treated, they will not contemplate taking their case to court. It’s David versus Goliath, and few of us take on that kind of fight. Never mind the investment of time and money that a court battle demands.

In previous consideration of the ombudsman issue, the government of the day has said that residents have ways available to them to appeal a court action or decision. That’s true. They can talk to department staff, there are appeal boards in some cases, as I noted, and people can ask their MLA for help, but none of these possibilities provide an impartial forum, and when all options are exhausted and the individual still feels wronged, the only action left to them is to take the matter to court, and that is an expensive and intimidating solution. NWT residents fighting a government or a board decision need an alternative to court, and an ombudsman office will give them that.

We’ve been talking about the need for an ombudsman office for years now. As Mr. Nadli mentioned, as far back in Hansard as 1992. There was a proposal for an office as far back as 1993, and the report tabled in this House in 1993 recommended the following:

“The Standing Committee on Legislation undertook a review which included public hearings throughout the Northwest Territories. The committee tabled its report on March 1, 1993, and recommended:

1. That the Minister of Justice proceed on a

priority basis with the preparation of a bill which would establish the right of access by the public to information held by government institutions.

2. That the Minister of Justice develop a

legislative action paper outlining a proposal for the creation of an ombudsman for the Northwest Territories.”

Now, some 21 years later, we unfortunately have had no concrete action to establish an office for the ombudsman. But there has been action, lots of it. Most recently, as we all know, the Standing Committee on Government Operations produced an excellent and thorough report. That report recommends that we establish an office of the ombudsman for the NWT.

This motion that we are dealing with today asks the government to develop legislation to do just that: to produce legislation that will allow for the

establishment of an ombudsman office. That office is needed and the need is evident. Over the last couple of decades, particularly with devolution, our territory has grown, and we have grown up, and part of being grown up is recognizing the need to help our neighbours and our friends. The time is now to bring this legislation forward. I ask all Members to recognize that and to vote in support of this motion.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. To the motion. Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to acknowledge the mover and the seconder as well as Government Operations for their hard work on this motion and the work on the ombudsman implementation. I know I’ve been able to attend several of the meetings.

In my short term as MLA, I’ve seen many situations where an ombudsman would be convenient and useful. There are several opportunities where MLAs can fight the fight to a certain point until they hit a roadblock, whether that’s in the Minister’s office or whether it’s in bureaucracy or whether it’s in the legislation. An ombudsman would be able to take care of some of those issues. I think we’re talking about the small percentage of issues that have been before MLAs and the government. I know the government’s probably reluctant to accept this ombudsman, seeing as they would indicate that we take care of the issues that are before us, and that’s true. They do, on the majority. But there is that 1, 2, 3 percent that they cannot fix. There is no immediate solution and maybe they agree to disagree with one of our constituents.

The other argument that lots of people have a concern with is the cost. Granted, there will be a cost to this office, but we know that we would implement it with a statutory office to do economies of scale for implementation to maybe do some joint work, office and staff-wise and similar work-wise.

There are many constituents that have issues with the way government is doing certain items, but they can’t risk that, whether they are a contractor who continues to do work with the department on a daily basis, they can’t risk their livelihoods to make a complaint. An ombudsman may be able to take that complaint anonymously, so that individual or that company can make a complaint that they haven’t dealt with or this situation hasn’t been dealt with.

As the mover and seconder indicated, this issue and this discussion have been here for more than 20 years. We need to look at an ombudsman office sooner than later. We’re at the last year of this Assembly and we’re going to go through another Assembly that didn’t implement this important office, this important feature in GNWT to take constituents’ concerns and complaints that are not being dealt with, that are taking too long to be dealt with.

Like I said, in my short three-year career here, we have had issues where people have been working on complaints and concerns for over three, four, five years, and I’ve taken them on from previous MLAs. There are certain things in this government that have to be dealt with promptly, and we believe that an ombudsman will allow this to happen and should be implemented. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Mr. Moses.