This is page numbers 4135 – 4182 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

Topics

The House met at 1:32 p.m.

---Prayer

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Good afternoon, colleagues. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. Item 3, Members’ statements.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure today to wish one of the most respected elders in the Mackenzie Delta a very happy 99th birthday.

Gwich’in elder Mrs. Mary Kendi, from Aklavik, is to be commended for reaching a milestone on living a healthy lifestyle. Mary has singlehandedly raised her children and provided a safe home for them.

Mary, in her life, has hunted, trapped and even owned her own dog team. In her 99 years of living, I wish to acknowledge Mary for promoting the Gwich’in culture and for speaking the Gwich’in language to many of us who know her.

Mary Kendi has a huge extended family who is celebrating with her today. Friends and family are gathering in Inuvik to have dinner and wish her well. Mrs. Kendi’s livelihood, act of living and positive outlook on life and family has given her the opportunity today to spend precious time with her family at 99 years young.

Mr. Speaker and Members of the Assembly, please join me in celebrating Mrs. Mary Kendi on her birthday today. I will also be celebrating on Saturday with the community as well. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Best wishes go out to the Kendi family and Mary on her birthday.

The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope I live to be 99 years old.

Within the next 30 days, the Northwest Territories takes on the responsibility for land and resource management. We have never had a better opportunity or a greater need to cut the amount of red tape related to doing business in the North.

Every year the Canadian Federation of Independent Business grades provinces and territories on their efforts to reduce red tape through political leadership, public measurement and constraints on regulators, legislative commitment, and progress on action to reduce regulatory burdens. The Northwest Territories, unfortunately, was on the bottom of the list. We even dropped a grade from when the federation conducted its evaluation last year.

Places that scored the lowest lacked leadership on action to create a better environment for doing business in their environment or territory and forward momentum on policy initiatives aimed at decreasing the amount of permitting, licensing, taxes, bylaws, registrations, regulations, penalties and wait times for private enterprise.

BC scored the highest, surpassing the federal government and all other jurisdictions for its proactive approach for lifting the regulatory load and limiting in the future. The province has successfully reduced its regulatory requirement for business by 42 percent since 2001. Any proposed new regulation must be evaluated through a small business lens.

Other jurisdictions that earned top marks demonstrated commitment to regulatory accountability and public reporting, engaging all departments and agencies in finding ways to reduce red tape, implementing a one-window approach and on-line service delivery and moving forward on initiatives to streamline systems and increase efficiencies.

Failing grades should be taken as a warning. As the government prepares to take on responsibility for our land and resources, the time has never been better to improve our score. Successful regulatory

reform is about public accountability. It needs our commitment, as legislators, to make the Northwest Territories a better place to live and do business.

I am very confident going forward with our new proposed, assumed responsibilities that this score will be much better the next time it’s reported. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Residents of Fort Liard would like consistent mental health service delivery. Fort Liard has long been asking for help with the mental health and addictions of the residents. Having a full-time dedicated mental health worker would help. People need to build trust and it’s hard to do that when there’s always someone new to see.

Residents of Fort Liard care about their relatives and friends who have addictions as this not only affects the families but the community as a whole. We want this government to build a stronger and steadier northern workforce and there is no greater urgency than the area of long-term mental health and addictions professionals.

I’ll have questions for the Minister at the appropriate time. Thank you very much.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today’s youth face difficult choices, enormous peer pressure and more readily available and potential mind-altering drugs than any other time in history.

I’m very proud to say that in my previous careers that I’ve had, I had the opportunity to work with a group called the Odd Squad. The Odd Squad is a group out of Vancouver who does a lot of trips throughout the Northwest Territories and to other Aboriginal communities across Canada to educate the public about devastating effects of high risk behaviour and the impact it has on members of our communities.

This is a group that’s out of Vancouver and may partner here with the Tree of Peace and other organizations, in some cases oil companies and diamond mines, to educate the youth about the drugs coming up to the Northwest Territories. Some Members here might be familiar with some of the

work and productions they’ve done such as the video called Through a Blue Lens, as well as Tears for April and more up to date is a TV show called The Beat, where they walk the streets of Vancouver and they educate people about drugs and introduce you to people who have had a hard time battling their addictions.

Today we still continue to see that problem in the Northwest Territories of all these mind-altering and very potent drugs that take people’s lives, that ruin families and ruin communities.

I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank the Odd Squad for the hard work and effort they do coming to the Northwest Territories and educating our youth, educating our people and, more importantly, educating our leaders that we need to support all these educational components to stop these kinds of addictions happening in our communities.

I’d just like to thank the Odd Squad and all their partners for helping educate, stop crime, as well as help people not partake in drug use in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have spoken on more than one occasion about this government’s loophole policy with its manual self-reporting remittance portion of the GNWT tobacco tax. As I have stated clearly, this government’s open-door reporting process, which has the potential for exploitation by out-of-province wholesalers and local retailers, begs to put into doubt this government’s ability for accountability and public trust.

So, why once again does this Member feel the need to bring this issue before the House? One only needs to look at the recently tabled public accounts for 2012-2013 to clearly see we continue to have a serious concern on this tax collection. On page 34, section 2 of the non-consolidated schedule of revenues by source, it indicates the actual tobacco tax collection for 2012 to be $17.1 million and that we were forecasted for a slight increase in 2013 Main Estimates for $17.3 million. Without prejudice, the actual tobacco tax came in lower than expected. In fact, it was off by 11.2 percent at $15.5 million.

So, to the question: Why the approximate $2 million loss in tobacco tax revenues? Did we have 11.2 percent fewer smokers that year? Did the daily smoking rate decrease by the same percentage proportionally? We really don’t know.

What we do know, according to the recently tabled Department of Health Annual Report 2012-2013, smokers made up 37.3 percent of the population and it indicated, even with a marked improvement in the percent of smokers in the NWT, we were still higher when compared to the 2012 Canadian rate at 20.7 percent. So, okay, this has to be accurate, so why wouldn’t we accept this information as being truthful, right?

However, what is mindboggling is when you look up Statistics Canada for the percentage of residents who smoke in the NWT, in 2011 it says 34.9 percent, and in 2012 a slight increase at 35.8 percent. So do we assume that our Health department’s recently tabled 37.3 percent of our population who smoke to be an increase from 2012 or is this an error? We’re not quite sure. But what we are sure, and reminded by the Minister of Finance, is that we have fewer smokers year after year.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

These statistics don’t match, and clearly, the tobacco tax revenue shortfall makes even less sense.

Let’s take a moment to summarize all this information today. First of all, when it comes to the data of smoking, Stats Canada reports different numbers than the GNWT. Why? Our Department of Health reports very little data on smoking and so much is left to the imagination. Why? Our actual tobacco tax collection, according to public accounts, is way off in the 2013 Main Estimates. Why? Finally, the smoking gun question I ask every session: Why does our Finance Minister continue to ignore the issue of the tobacco tax self-reporting loophole, especially from southern wholesale distributors?

The only one who can shine light on this mystery is our Minister of Finance, and I’ll have questions for him later today. Mr. Speaker, I will be tabling supporting documents as well. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It was said by our Premier that land is life and it is so true in the Northwest Territories. Because of our issues in the Sahtu, land is life and certainly our elderly people know that this is so true. From the land we get power, a way of life, we put food on our tables and we build our homes. Everything comes from the land. When we think about it and listen to our elders, even when we go outside to do our work,

they always tell us to make it protocol to go out there and thank the land and the water. Before you do anything, remember where you come from.

It’s so ingrained in us that it’s a struggle sometimes with today’s economy and the way of life we have, but we need to come together and talk about the changes that are happening in our lives today.

We have a controversial issue, such as the economic development that’s happening in the Sahtu region. People are wondering what type of mechanisms, what type of assurances we’ll have to protect our land and our water and our air and our animals. Yet at the same time, we know changes are happening as we speak today and people are also wondering: what are the older people, the elders, saying about this? We should be able to get together with our elders and talk about our land and our water and our air with the young people and see how we can work things out in the North, up in the Sahtu region, and look at what land is going to be doing for us.

I will have questions for the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources on the land and water in the North. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This government has committed to eradicating poverty and I fully support that statement. Looking at the Anti-Poverty Strategy and action plan, they contain many good ideas that will tweak the system and gently increase overall wellness in our communities, but tweaking the system is not going to eliminate poverty.

Our northern cultures put a high value on helping each other get through difficult times and making sure that everyone has an equal opportunity to get ahead. Our efforts to eliminate poverty should reflect those values. Despite our best intentions, however, the maze of government-funded programs has created poverty traps rather than a social safety net.

I get a lot of calls from constituents who are struggling to get out of the poverty traps that our system creates. The ones that really get to me are from those who have children. Over the next few days I’ll describe what life is like for people under our current system and suggest some solutions.

Let’s start with Charles, a single father looking after two young kids with a third in Grade 4. He lost his job last year and he has a hard time finding work because he has to look after the kids and daycare is too expensive. Unemployment insurance ran out a while ago. Even though he did not want to, he went to see income support. Income support was a

humiliating experience for Charles. To qualify for income support you need to prove that you have nothing left, so Charles had to sell his truck. The paperwork was more complicated than filling out his taxes and he had to do it every month. He was shocked at how many bureaucrats it took to make sure he was actually in need of help and he felt like he was being accused of trying to take advantage of the system. Refusing to help people until they have reached absolute rock bottom and then effectively forcing them to beg for help every month has a profound psychological effect. It creates a self-fulfilling story.

We have many programs that transfer money to people that need it. Every time we all fill out taxes, we all get assessed for northern living allowances, GST tax credits, child tax credits, cost of living tax credits and so on. We all get assessed. We are all expected to fill out our taxes honestly and we all know we may get audited. Millions of dollars are transferred to all Northerners using the tax system and it does not cost us much to do it.

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Mahsi.

---Unanimous consent granted

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I cannot think of a single reason why Charles could not get the help he needs through a similar system. There is no difference between the cost of living tax credit and an income support payment. It all comes from the same pot. So let’s treat everyone with the same respect and help people get back on their feet instead of psychologically trapping them in poverty.

I will have questions and I will have more on this tomorrow. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Radon Gas Exposure
Members’ Statements

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Most of us tend to think that the natural environment is good for us, but it is not always true. Our elders and experienced hunters know that the land feeds us and nurtures, but it can also be dangerous. Knowledge of dangerous areas is passed on from generation to generation. Of course, our elders have no experience with radon gas, which is invisible and has no taste or smell, and it has never bothered them. We know that radon is found at low levels almost everywhere and it’s not dangerous that way, but in high concentrations over time radon can cause lung cancer.

Radon comes from the natural decay of uranium, so it is radioactive. It is very diluted in outside air but it can build up where there’s little or no airflow. That includes buildings with basements and closed-in crawlspaces.

The good news is homes and buildings in the NWT and Nunavut have had the lowest concentrations of radon gas in Canada. One reason may be permafrost, which is a good barrier against radon. On top of that, most homes built by our housing corporations have vented foundations so the danger of radon exposure in them is very low, so low in fact that the NWT Housing Corporation doesn’t bother to test for radon or monitor radon levels.

We all know temperatures have slowly risen in the NWT over the past few decades and some permafrost is melting. It might be prudent to make sure that radon levels are still very low, especially where some homes and buildings have enclosed foundations. Testing is no big deal and it’s cheap to do. Test kits only cost about $50. It might be a good idea for the NWT Housing Corporation to make them available or do some spot checks around the territory. I think public awareness could be much improved.

Precautions to control our radon are also easily taken. For example, allow more air to flow through enclosed foundations and seal cracks and openings around pipes and drains.

To sum up, we have enough people getting cancer as it is without radon being a factor. It doesn’t take much to make sure radon stays out of the picture, so let’s do it.

I’ll have a few questions for the Housing Minister.

Radon Gas Exposure
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We spend huge dollars on our Education department, almost 25 percent of our total $1.6 billion budget, and of the money appropriated for Education, Culture and Employment, $26.6 million is allocated to ensure our schools follow the ECE Inclusive Schooling Directive.

All classrooms are not created equal. Some have one or more special needs children who require a personal classroom assistant in addition to the classroom teacher for them to be able to be included in a regular classroom. That extra staffing requirement is funded by ECE through funds allocated to the authorities by a formula. NWT education authorities have recognized the unfairness of the current funding formula for inclusive schooling programs, and for years superintendents and board chairs have been asking ECE to revise the formula to make it better, to provide adequate funding to the boards that need it, but we have yet to see that happen.

The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment has promised several times that the department would look at an evaluation of the inclusive schooling funding formula. I believe an informal one was even done a few years ago, but nothing has changed. Neither MLAs nor school boards have seen any report. The latest comfort, I believe, we were given by the Minister of ECE around the issue of inclusive schooling funding was that it would be part of the Education Renewal and Innovation Initiative. The ERI Strategy is completed and public now and the action plan is currently being developed. Again, we have yet to see a report on the inclusive schooling funding formula.

Some education authorities are providing classroom assistants for their identified special needs students and funding them internally, tapping into their operating surplus to ensure these special needs students have adequate support in their classrooms. It must be recognized that our larger communities, because they have more services and programs than our smaller ones, attract families with special needs children who need that extra support both in and outside of school and that puts an extra financial burden on those education authorities. This financial burden is not currently acknowledged by the department, evidenced by the way it funds the education authorities at the moment, and these education authorities are being penalized for reaching out and trying to provide equitability for all the students in their regions.

I have to ask, when will we see revisions to the inclusive schooling funding formula that makes it fair for all authorities in the NWT?

I will have this question and others for the Minister at the appropriate time. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A few days ago I went back to my office and on my desk there was a Snickers bar sitting there, and all of us here know what that represents. Well, I certainly don’t care who dropped that off, and as a matter of fact, they could drop a truckload of those Snicker bars off and it still won’t change my resolve to the concern about job opportunities unfairly being denied to Northerners.

It’s simply this: This McLeod government continues to fail its people by not providing those job opportunities Northerners need. Over this past month, many Members were shocked to know that this government had 1,150 vacancies, and since we’ve heard from the Finance Minister, they are actively pursuing 571 of those vacancies. I, like many Members, found this very interesting.

When I immediately visited the government’s website, like many people in the public, we found that there were just over 100 job opportunities posted there, why so few? How does anyone actively pursue 571 vacancies when you can find just merely 100?

We, as Members, continually hear about the lack of availability of much needed jobs in every one of these communities. Whether you live in a big community or a small community, jobs are important. But the government says they’re actively pursuing them – those are their words, not mine – so, many Members are concerned about this.

People need these jobs; they don’t need excuses. Can anyone imagine in this modern day that our government tells everybody that, oh, don’t worry, jobs are out there, but when they look, they’re not there. This is a difficult challenge to grapple with.

Again I went to the government website this morning, my goodness sakes, and there are only 71 jobs there. Where are the other 500? Mr. Speaker, what is this government’s definition of actively pursuing?

The average person will tell you it’s energetic, it’s engaged, it’s striving to gain and maybe even to obtain. Unlikely as those words would be, they do not match the definition of actively pursuing.

This government has a 20 percent absentee on their workforce. They say they are pursing 571 jobs, but are they really?

The public and I agree: these jobs need to be listed; these are opportunities that are being denied. At the end of the day, who knows where the money is going? Are these jobs really being pursued to be filled, or is the money being earmarked for projects by… Well, we already know who. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

I would like to welcome you here today in the public gallery and thank you for taking the time.

Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to follow up from my Member’s statement earlier today with questions for the Minister of ECE. I would like to know why we treat people differently, depending on how much money they make. Recognizing that the Minister is working hard on this issue, could the Minister explain what is the underlying philosophy as to why the system his department operates inherently treats people who

are living in poverty with less respect than other people? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Within the income support division, we treat everybody equally and respectfully and there is a reporting mechanism that is in place. We have to work closely with the office of the Auditor General that did the overall, intensive and comprehensive review of our income support division. Based on the feedback that we received from the office of the Auditor General, there’s a guideline we have to follow. The regulations have been established. The reporting mechanism is a key front of the discussion that we have with clientele. They have to report, whether it be income classification, the documentation that needs to be submitted. Those are some of the questions that the client service officers ask to those individuals, but the individuals aren’t treated differently. We have to treat everybody equally, as much as we can, throughout the Northwest Territories. Mahsi.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister. I know that the Minister is working hard on this. Unfortunately, it’s an inherent thing that I think even enters the policy-maker’s view of things and ends up with these policies that create poverty traps.

The Minister recently provided information in a response to a written question on the cost of running our income security programs. Income support spent $3.5 million to distribute $16 million. In comparison, Student Financial Assistance costs $660,000 to distribute $16 million while the cost of living tax distributed $21.5 million and did not cost us anything. Why does the Income Support Program cost millions more to run when it distributes less money to fewer people? Mahsi.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi. When we talk about the income support division, it does consist of various programs and part of it is the seniors’ home heating subsidy, income assistance in general to support those individuals and providing assistance to residents 19 years of age and over for basic food necessities, shelter and clothing expenses and we have to attend to those most vulnerable individuals in the communities, the clientele. So, these are just some of the areas: NWT territorial workers supplement, NWT child tax, senior citizens supplementary benefits, SFA. All of these fall under income support. So, yes, the number the Member highlights, $3.5 million to distribute $16 million, obviously our target is to get people off income support. That’s why we’re focusing on a Labour Market Agreement with the federal government to allocate this towards the readiness for work and we’re doing what we can as a department to alleviate that, but this is what we

have to date with the policies that are driven. So, we’ll continue to stress that with the constituencies and also with the federal government for job readiness. Mahsi.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

The Minister and I have the same goals and what I’m saying is, after decades of failure, keeping people in poverty, recognizing this government’s commitment to get out of poverty, help people get out of poverty, let’s do some changes here and I’m suggesting some.

The Minister recently announced a clearly sensible policy that recipients of Student Financial Assistance will only have to report every three months instead of monthly. We are all aware that we have to fill out our annual tax returns pretty soon.

Why does the department continue to require that income support paperwork be completed month after month after month? Mahsi.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Again, I will have to reflect back on the office of the Auditor General. As you know, they are here this week as part of the review process for Health and Social Services, as we did last year. It’s a very comprehensive review that they’re going through and we must follow the guidelines and they strictly highlight the reporting mechanism, not only that but the monthly reporting mechanism, how we should be working with the clientele. So, all the documents are in place.

Those are just some of the guidelines we have to follow, the regulations that are before us and through the legislation that has been through this House is part of the process that we have to go through. Again, with the policies, policies can also go through changes. We made some changes in 2007, drastic changes, and every year we go through the review process of the policies. Those are just some of the options that we’ll consider. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister doesn’t know that we make those policies, we make those guidelines, we make those regulations, we have the power. When an elder becomes eligible for a pension, no one asks them if they have spent every penny and sold their vehicle before they are eligible. When a business owner goes bankrupt they are allowed to keep their registered retirement savings. So why does the income support system require a single parent who cannot work because they are looking after their children to use up all their assets before they are eligible for income support and thus create this poverty trap?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Again, we’re following the guidelines of what has been passed in this House. Yes, we changed those policies, we

changed that legislation, the regulations in this House. At the same time, we have to follow the office of the Auditor General. Simply, there are strict guidelines for us to follow. Obviously, we don’t want to break those policies, those programs, those regulations that are in place. At this point there’s a reason for it. At the same time, the reporting mechanism is in place for various reasons. There are individuals who may be going through certain stages. We need to identify if there has been some deposits into their bank accounts, and there are times where there is no reason given why there is a substantial amount of funds in their account. Those are just simplistic reasons why we need to know, because income support is a basic necessity for those individuals that are struggling. Again, it is policy driven. We can make those recommended changes and we will definitely consider those as we move forward.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Earlier I spoke about a consistent full-time mental health worker in Fort Liard. I’d like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services a question. I did raise this issue last fall. I’d just like to ask once again, when will the department be hiring a full-time mental health worker in the community of Fort Liard?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The Minister of Health, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We invest about $6 million annually in community counselling positions across the Northwest Territories and community counselling services.

With respect to the exact position in Fort Liard, I’m not actually aware of the position in Fort Liard or whether or not it’s vacant, so I will have to have a conversation with the Dehcho Health and Social Services Authority to get a status update, which I will share with the Member and I’ll work with the authority to figure out how to get an incumbent into that position.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

I think one of the issues last fall, as well, was a matter of who does the recruitment. I know that we’ve got the Department of Human Resources, but is the health authority doing their own recruitment?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

The Department of Human Resources provides technical expertise in competitions but the health authority is certainly involved in every competition for any incumbent of their organization, so it’s a combined effort.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

I guess one of the other issues in the small communities and hiring professionals is the high turnover rate. I was wondering if the department has been addressing this, have been looking at this, and finding some alternate strategies in order to keep longer term employees in the small and remote communities.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

During the last fiscal year, the Department of Health and Social Services took over the health human resources unit from the Department of Human Resources. That unit is now in the department and they’re developing a comprehensive human resources plan for the department and working with the authorities, as well, so we’re hoping to come up with some useful and beneficial programs that will help recruit and retain Northerners throughout the Northwest Territories, whether that’s training people or bringing people in, it should include both of them. We are going to be coming forward with that strategy.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Is that something similar to what Human Resources is doing with the Regional Recruitment Strategy? Is that what the Department of Health and Social Services is looking at right now?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

We’re looking for ways to recruit and retain health and allied health professionals throughout the Northwest Territories that may involve a variety of programs. We haven’t really determined all the details at this point. But the Regional Recruitment Program is available to all departments, boards and agencies, so if we have positions that don’t have a statutory requirement, we could certainly engage the Department of Human Resources to utilize the Regional Recruitment Program as it stands now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier today I talked about radon gas and its prevalence in the NWT. We are all aware that climate change is occurring throughout the world, but mostly so in the NWT. We have seen the temperature rise, affecting the permafrost in some instances, as permafrost is indeed melting. My question is to the Minister of the Housing Corporation.

When was the last round of testing for radon done in the NWT communities by the Housing Corporation? Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. The honourable Minister responsible for Housing, Mr. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Because of the fact that most of our inventory is above ground, it’s really not a factor at this point. Plans are being put into place to look at our inventory and we want to develop some plans to do some testing for radon gas in some of the NWT Housing Corporation homes. That way we’ll have a better idea of the risks that are there and whether there is a presence of radon gas or not. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

What is being done to make sure the public is aware of the dangers of radon gas and how to prevent radon exposure and how to test for it?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

This is something that’s starting to develop and is a concern. It is an issue we will have to have a look at. Once we educate ourselves more on the potential risks of this, we will start educating the public out there.

I wanted to use this opportunity to assure the public that our tenants, at this point, there is really not a big risk. Most of our units being above ground helps lessen that risk. As we get into new construction, units are sealed fairly well and, again, that limits the chance for radon gas to accumulate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

I’d like to thank the Minister for his reply. I know there are test kits that people can get in stores for about fifty bucks that could be made available.

Will the Minister provide leadership and start a program for spot checks for radon in NWT communities and provide the results? I understand the Minister and the department is indeed taking measures to do tests, but when and where will those tests happen? Mahsi.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Again, it is early in the stages. Once we do start the testing, we will be providing the Member and committee with updates as we go forward on this. Again, I just want to assure the public out there that this isn’t a crisis and they don’t need to run out and buy gas masks or anything like that. It is under control and the Housing Corporation will ensure that there is no risk to the tenants in our units. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The commercial builders, especially in office and apartment buildings with enclosed foundations, have to test for radon and publish the results. If not, why not? Mahsi.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I’m not sure if the Member was asking if we have done the tests yet or he wants us to publish the results of the test. As I’ve said, we haven’t started the testing yet. Once we do start the testing, if there is an opportunity for

us to publish the results or put the results on our website, we will look at that option and see where we go from there. If the opportunity is there, I will assure the Member that we will do our best to ensure the Member and the public are informed. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During my Member’s statement I talked about some of the illicit drug use in the Northwest Territories and how we have organizations outside of the NWT and within the NWT that are combating the drug dealers and drug use and high risk behaviours in the Northwest Territories.

I’d like to ask the Minister of Justice, with such incidents happening in the Northwest Territories and we’re seeing an increase of illicit drugs coming into the North by road, by plane, by boat, however it comes in, what is the Minister’s department doing to crack down on the influx of these types of drugs coming into the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Justice

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Member for his question. Certainly, the prevalence of drugs in the Northwest Territories is something that is a very serious concern for us. We handle the enforcement of the drug trade through the RCMP “G” Division. They do an excellent job for us in trying to combat the amount of drugs that enter the territory. We’ve had some very high profile drug busts here in Yellowknife recently and also in Hay River. We also have the canine unit that helps in that regard as well. I know the RCMP work on a multijurisdictional approach because the drugs have to come from somewhere to get into the NWT. So the RCMP are continuously working with their counterparts in southern Canada and other parts of northern Canada to combat the illegal drug trade here in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

I could get into more details in terms of drug use. This might come up as a written question at some point or the Minister could possibly give me a commitment to get some stats on how many of our crime-related offences are related specifically to illicit drugs that we don’t normally see in the Northwest Territories.

Would he be willing to get me that information or let me know what kind of percentage we are looking at for type of crimes committed in the Northwest

Territories that are specifically associated and relate to illicit drug use? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Justice

We can certainly look at putting those statistics together for the Member and other Members of the House. Thank you.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Just recently in Inuvik, we opened up an emergency shelter that allowed more time for the RCMP officers to do other types of work rather than deal with public intoxication and things like that. Shortly after the emergency shelter kicked into effect, there was a big drug bust in the community, which meant that the RCMP had more time to actually conduct their business and go out and do more important work. With that said, we’re putting a lot of resources into all these crimes that are associated with illicit drug use. If we put more money into prevention, we can prevent the drugs from coming up here before we have to deal with the issue at hand.

Would the Minister be willing to provide more resources for airport checks and screening as well as access roads and screening to combat these types of issues, especially with transportation companies that actually bring up goods, not through the post office or mail system? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Justice

During the winter months with the advance of the winter road season in the Northwest Territories, I do know the RCMP are very diligent on stepping up their efforts to look at drugs that are being transported on the winter road system in the NWT.

Also, we have the Not Us! campaign. Important to all of this discussion today in the House is everybody has a role to play in trying to stop the trade of illicit drugs in the Northwest Territories today. We have the Crime Stoppers program, as well, and people can anonymously, if they are aware of illegal activity in their community, a 1-800 number to identify that type of illegal activity.

Again, it is up to all of us to try to stamp out the trade of illicit drugs here in the Northwest Territories. I do know the RCMP do a good job for us and they are out there, but they certainly need all of our help in trying to combat illegal drugs in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to make reference to this TV program that I watch, it’s called Border Patrol, and they have an RCMP canine unit that goes around sniffing bags and things like that. We know when we’re getting people coming up to the North. When the ice roads go in, there’s a lot of traffic when that happens. The same with Inuvik when we have a big activity coming up, we have transportation vehicles coming to the Northwest Territories.

Would the Minister look at committing and dedicating those canine units at the busiest times of the year to do spot checks within our Northwest Territories communities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Justice

I do know that those units are deployed, as the Member suggests, already. As far as a schedule or whatnot, again, I’d have to go back to the department. We wouldn’t want to publicize when a canine unit would be on a specific ice road here in the Northwest Territories, for obvious reasons. But certainly I do know that during the winter months, when the winter roads are in use, that the RCMP do step up their efforts on our winter road system. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier today I raised a number of concerns on differing statistical numbers between Stats Canada and the GNWT pertaining to the subject of tobacco. However, what is most concerning, according to our public accounts, is that our actual tobacco collection is way off from the 2013 Main Estimates by a whopping $1.7 million. My questions will be for the Minister of Finance today.

Can the Minister offer an explanation why the data for smoking, smoking rates by population and daily average smoking rates, for example, differ between what the Government of the Northwest Territories reports and what Statistics Canada reports? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In dealings with the federal government over the years on issues of statistics, the one thing that has always stuck in my mind when we’re trying to get accurate numbers is that we are such a small jurisdiction that they consider us, in many cases, statistically insignificant when it comes to determining national trends and numbers. Thank you.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I wish I could accept that as a response, but I guess that’s what we’ll get from the Minister.

Can the Minister inform the House what type of census or controlled survey occurs in the Northwest Territories that monitors and reports on tobacco purchase, use, tax collection and audits on a yearly basis? Where can one find all this information publicly? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I listened to many issues raised in the Member’s statement and

his questions and his interest in getting a lot of detailed information, so I’ll take that question as notice. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of ENR in regards to the environmental protection in working in the area of Sahtu in regards to the economic development that has happened there. I want to ask the Minister in regards to the work that needs to get up there in regards to environmental issues.

Has the Minister commissioned studies in regards to some of the environmental concerns that are coming up with the hydraulic fracking?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are still working on what we see as some needed improvements to fracking practices. That work is still working its way through the process. We’ve received some feedback from committee and we’re looking at bringing forward revisions reflecting the changes that were recommended as well as the fact that we are now going to be our own regulator.

We’ve laid out the Land Use and Sustainability Framework, which is a broad framing document with some very critical principles. We have money that we’ve allocated through the Environmental Research Fund to start doing baseline work on groundwater and wildlife, and we’ve had meetings with industry to make use of what they do on wildlife and groundwater monitoring that is project and site-specific that we want to make sure that we include in the work that we do so that we have as comprehensive amount of baseline data as possible. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. Can the Minister inform the House and me as to when he expects an official policy, framework policy, to the work that he’s doing that would look at hydraulic fracking in the North?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

As has been pointed out by the Minister of ITI, after April 1st we

will be the regulator and he will be the Minister responsible. The NEB’s existing policies and guidelines will stay in effect and the work that we are doing, in terms of reviewing fracking as a government that we’ve been looking at now for a number of months, will come forward sometime after April, that will look at improving upon what is currently there. But in the meantime, the National

Energy Board policies and filing guidelines are what will be the policies of the day. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, one of the interesting things that the Minister pointed out was baseline studies in the Sahtu because of the ecological sensitivity of our area. Are some of the baseline studies near completion, and I take it that that’s going to be used as guidelines for the policy that could come ahead in the next couple of months or so. Are the specific baseline studies being worked on and computed as we go through this whole new exploration on hydraulic fracking?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Regional baseline studies are going to take some time. We have initiated that process. We are looking, as I had indicated as well, as trying to build off and use the work that has been done with industry, the work that they’ve done on wildlife and groundwater, and we’re going to continue to invest money over the coming years to get that baseline work complete.

In the meantime, the work on fracking that has been done, that we’ve initiated a couple of months ago, is going to continue and we expect early in April to be able to bring that forward for some public feedback as well as industry feedback. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the public feedback, I’m wondering if the Minister would consider working with the Department of ITI to look at possibly a summit for the elders for the traditional knowledge and information that they have on the land. That’s good feedback with the elders’ knowledge in developing future policies and guidelines to the hydraulic fracking work that’s being done in the Sahtu.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

As the Minister of Lands and Minister of ITI have pointed out before this House, because their budgets were reviewed, the development assessment process we are putting in place, now that we’re going to be the regulator after April 1st , sees an integrated

cooperative approach between the two departments chaired by the Minister of Lands. We will do the work on fracking and we will make sure that when it is put out for public feedback, we will consider the Member’s suggestion. We’ll be looking for feedback from people across the North but especially where it’s impacting in the Sahtu as well as the industry. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This past fall was the first time the Department of Transportation extended the ferry service in

Tsiigehtchic. I’d like to ask the Minister of Transportation, when will the work begin to repair the Louis Cardinal ferry for service in June? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister of Transportation, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, I have talked to the department and the ferry will be ready to go when it’s in the water. It will be fully repaired and fully functional. Thank you.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to ask the Minister, what was the estimated cost of damages to the vessel this fall? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. We have not completed a complete evaluation and cost estimate on the damage that may have been incurred by the Louis Cardinal ferry during the time we were attempting to continue to run it round season. We did put $400,000 worth of capital into the ferry in order to make it possible to run all season. Thank you.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Will the department also be repairing the Merv Hardie this year? Thank you.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

I’m not expecting to put the Merv Hardie into service, so anything that may be done with the Merv Hardie will only be done when we plan to put it into service. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I recall last year the Minister was saying that the ferry would be ready for replacement if an emergency was to happen, so that ferry should be operational.

I’d like to ask the Minister, will the Minister replace the Louis Cardinal vessel with the Merv Hardie? Thank you.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. Indications tell us that by evaluating the Merv Hardie versus the Louis Cardinal that there would be no benefits gained by moving the Merv Hardie down river to Tsiigehtchic to that crossing. So at this time there is no plan to replace the Louis Cardinal with the Merv Hardie. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement I talked about the job opportunities that are being denied the public, for goodness sakes.

On the GNWT’s website there were only 71 postings, half were in Yellowknife and half were outside of Yellowknife.

Where are the remainder of the 500 jobs that the Finance Minister proclaims to the public that they are actively pursuing? I’m asking the Minister of Human Resources, where are the other jobs? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister of Human Resources, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As of February 17, 2014, of the 571 vacant positions, 156 of them were filled and the other ones are in the various processes, currently being filled by transfer assignment or casual while we’re trying to find an incumbent, they were recently vacant or at some point been through the interview stage or the advertising stage or the offer stage. So they’re at the various stages and it would not be possible for us to advertise and fill 571 jobs at one time. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

What the Minister failed to say was how many new job openings were created while these 156 jobs are in the process of being filled. At the same time, the Minister says he can’t advertise the jobs because it would be impossible. Why? Well, I don’t know because, my goodness, how do you fill the jobs if you don’t advertise? So can the Minister answer that interesting quagmire he has now found himself in?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. The number of 571 is a snapshot on October 31, 2013, and that’s when those vacancies were positioned. However, throughout the year we advertise the jobs and fill the jobs. So, yes, I’m positive that there have been more vacancies since October 31st , but we won’t

know that number until we take another snapshot six months after that. We’re taking the PeopleSoft system and we’re taking it off the PeopleSoft on a semi-annual basis. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

You would think it would be a very paramount job of the Minister of Human Resources to know exactly how many vacancies we have, not to wait to each quarter or semi-quarter, who knows how you want to paint it.

Why doesn’t the Minister, realizing how important this issue is, while the House is sitting, why doesn’t he know how many jobs are vacant because these are rolling vacancies if someone gets hired, somebody changes their mind and doesn’t want to work there anymore. So we have an average vacancy built up throughout the Northwest Territories government at all times.

Why doesn’t the Minister know what’s going on with these vacancies and about how many are available? Thank you.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. The PeopleSoft system is designed to give us snapshot reports. We use that as a management tool to hire, track, recruit, retain our employees and this was a snapshot that we provided to the House on October

2013 and we’ll do that again in April of 2014. We act accordingly. We continuously are attempting to fill positions. We work with the departments and it’s important for us that we make every effort to fill the vacancies and we do. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If anyone doesn’t know, apparently we use PeopleSoft, because I think it has been said at least seven times if not more. Maybe we should have the PeopleSoft program sitting in one of those seats answering all these questions because if we only have information from October and we don’t get new information until April, that has to be at least six months. This is such an important issue.

What is the Minister going to do to ensure Northerners have current information before them so they can apply for these jobs? Because I can tell you, up and down this Valley, all four corners of the Northwest Territories, people want to work and if nobody knows in that government, in that department where these jobs are, how will Northerners know? What will the Minister do? Thank you.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. We have recruitment and marketing strategies to fill vacancies. That’s what we’re doing. We’re working with the department. Every effort is being made. PeopleSoft is not actually a person; PeopleSoft is a system that we go to, to capture information from. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. A little bit of order here. Order! Okay, oral questions. The Member for Range Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to follow up on my Member’s statement and I have some questions for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. I mentioned in my statement I’m looking at an inclusive schooling review that has been mentioned by the Minister a number of times and I think the latest statement by the Minister was that the Education Renewal and Innovation Initiative was going to involve a review of inclusive schooling. So the ERI work that either has taken place already or that is taking place now, I’d like to know whether or not the department has undertaken or will undertake as part of the ERI work, a review of the inclusive schooling funding formula. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Yes, the whole inclusive schooling is part of the ERI that we are moving forward and developing an

action plan. We are currently in the process of reviewing the inclusive schooling directive and funding consultation, of course, engaging the education authorities. The review will be completed no later than the end of this year, 2013-14, because we want it to be part of the action plan as we move forward.

So, as I indicated, the education boards and the Northwest Territories Teachers’ Association will be part of the working group. We wanted to involve those individuals and that would have the most positive impact in the communities with all the school boards and the community members. So, yes, we will be reviewing. Mahsi.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. I got a little confused there. The Minister started off saying that they were doing a review and then I think he said that they will do a review, so I’d like a little clarification.

Is the review underway, and if so, who is undertaking that review for the department? Is it an internal review or is it somebody external that is doing the review for the department?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

What I said is it is under review. As part of the whole inclusive schooling, it will be part of the education renewal. That’s what I was referring to. Inclusive schooling is currently under review. By 2013-14, the end of this year, we want to have the product at hand. We are, as a department, going through the review process, again, working with the school boards and the superintendents, the NWTTA, through their program support teachers, engaging them and providing recommendations. Those recommendations will be brought forward to my attention and I will be sharing that with the standing committee in due time.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. I’m glad to hear that something’s going to be done by the end of March. I think he said the end of ’13-14, so that’s in about three weeks’ time. I’m very glad to hear that. I didn’t hear an answer to my question of who is doing the review.

Has the department hired a contractor or are they doing the review internally?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

When I said no later than the end of 2013-14, I want to bring this back to session in the spring session, the May and June Legislative Assembly. That is my overall target and goals and objectives to deliver that. I have to get back to the Member on who has been hired as a contractor to deliver this review of inclusive schooling as part of the education renewal.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister. I look forward to receiving that

information on who is doing the review. The Minister indicates that we’re going to get something in the May/June session, and I appreciate that.

I guess I would like to ask the Minister, if the department has the review completed prior to that, would he circulate the review to Members, particularly the Standing Committee on Social Programs electronically prior to May/June?

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Once

the

information is available to me, then I will be more than willing to share that with the standing committee.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In January the Minister of Transportation accompanied me on a tour of the Mackenzie Delta and while we were in Tsiigehtchic the community asked a question to the department, so I’d like to also ask the same question to the Minister.

Has the department considered starting at 8:00 a.m. until midnight as suggested by the community of Tsiigehtchic?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we are considering that. We wrote to the contractor. I sent a letter off to the contractor asking if there were any issues or detriments to us following the hours that were suggested by the community of Tsiigehtchic.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

A reason a lot of the Members wanted this change in hours was a lot of people are missing their flights to Inuvik because of the delays that happen in the morning.

I’d like to ask the Minister, will these hours be in place this coming spring?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

In the letter that I sent to the contractor, it is for this coming season. We had asked them to consider doing it this coming season. We had a very clear explanation from the community why that was an issue. It is sort of the crossing from Tsiigehtchic to both sides of the Mackenzie, as well, so we recognize there are delays there. We’ve put that in the letter and we’re asking that a decision be made for this season.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees

on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, entitled “Waste Reduction and Recovery Program, Annual Report.” Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, entitled “2013 Annual Report of the Northwest Territories Public Utilities Board.”

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two documents here, both from Statistics Canada. One is the percentage of residents who smoke in the Northwest Territories, 2011, at 34.9 percent; and smoking of 2012, at 35.8 percent.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. I wish to table the report of the Auditor General of Canada to the Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly – 2014: Child and Family Services – Department of Health and Social Services and Health and Social Services Authorities.

Item 15, notices of motion. Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, March 6, 2014, I will move the

following motion: now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Range Lake, that this Legislative Assembly strongly recommends that the government identify at least two priority communities for new nursing and/or policing services and provide those services within the 2014-15 fiscal year; and further, that by December 31, 2014, the government completes long-term plans working with community governments and including timelines for implementation to expand police and nursing services into the communities now lacking those services; and furthermore, that the government provide a comprehensive response to this motion within 120 days.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Mr. Blake.

Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, March 6, 2014, I will move that Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, be read for the first time.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills.

Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters, with Mrs. Groenewegen in the chair.

By the authority given to me as the Speaker, by Motion 10-17(5), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond its daily hour of adjournment to consider business before the House.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order this afternoon. I could read that list of documents, but I think I’ll just say there are numerous items before the committee today. I’d like to ask what is the wish of the committee. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, we do have a lot in front of us. We wish to continue with Tabled Document 22-17(5), NWT Main Estimates 2014-2015. We’d like to start with the Department of Environment and Natural Resources, then Public Works and Services, then the Executive, and then the Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Is committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. We will commence with that after a brief break.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

I will call Committee of the Whole to order. We are reviewing Tabled Document 22-17(5). Next on our list is Environment and Natural Resources. Committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Minister Miltenberger, do you have any opening comments?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The 2014-2015 Main Estimates for the Department of Environment and Natural Resources propose total operational expenses of $87.5 million for the upcoming year. This represents a 22 percent or a $16 million increase from last year’s budget primarily for increased program and services due to devolution.

The mandate of the Department of Environment and Natural Resources is to promote and support the sustainable use and development of our natural resources and to protect, conserve and enhance the environment for the social and economic benefit of all residents.

This mandate will be further strengthened as of April 1, 2014, when the department assumes responsibility for the management of onshore water resources.

During the 2014-15 fiscal year, activities within the department will increase to meet our enhanced role in the broader regulatory environment, particularly in the areas of water, conservation, environmental monitoring and stewardship.

A major expense is the creation of two new divisions for the department with $10.7 million allocated for the water resources division and $8.4 million for conservation, assessment and monitoring.

The water resources division will ensure the water resources stewardship and management objectives of our government are met in an integrated and timely manner.

Division staff will be responsible for providing technical advice to Northwest Territories boards that issue water licences; coordinating the process for ministerial approval of both Type A and B water licences; ensuring knowledge to make water resource management decisions and develop water resources programs is current and relevant to the Northwest Territories; and continuing the effective implementation of the Water Stewardship Strategy guided by the principles of ecosystem-based management within watersheds and the use of the

best available scientific, local and traditional knowledge.

The Taiga Environmental Lab, which offers services to public and private enterprises throughout the North to help support environmental decision-making, will be managed by the water resources division.

The new conservation, assessment and monitoring division will ensure the environment is seriously considered in regional land use planning and the review of proposed development in the NWT.

Division staff will lead the development of a territorial ecological representative network; oversee departmental participation in environmental impact assessment and regulatory processes as well as regional land use planning.

The department also assumes responsibility for the NWT Cumulative Impacts Monitoring Program to ensure legal and land claim requirements of cumulative impact monitoring is undertaken in the NWT on April 1st . The program administers $3.4

million to coordinate, support and conduct monitoring-related initiatives in the NWT communities, which incorporate both scientific and traditional knowledge.

Besides the positions transferring from the federal government, four new positions are being proposed for the department. Two positions will be going to the Sahtu to help deal with the workload from increased oil and gas exploration activity. The other two positions will be assisting in negotiations of transboundary water agreements with Alberta, British Columbia and Saskatchewan.

We will continue to work collaboratively with Aboriginal governments, communities and the public to protect our environment and ensure the wise and sustainable use of our resources.

For example, the department will work with Aboriginal governments, communities and stakeholders to implement the new Wildlife Act and NWT Water Stewardship Strategy Action Plan; negotiate and implement bilateral transboundary water agreements with Alberta, British Columbia and Saskatchewan; provide support for wildlife co-management regimes, regional land use planning and sustainable forest management; and advance efforts to deal with climate change adaptation and mitigation.

We will also continue to build partnerships with other parties involved in land and water management decisions, including Aboriginal governments, regulatory and resource management authorities and other government departments. These partnerships will support further integration, collaboration and sharing of data and information needed to assess and make quality land and water use decisions.

I will touch briefly on some of the other major activities planned for the 2014-15 fiscal year.

The department and the Canadian Water Network are working in partnership to develop a practical community-based cumulative effects monitoring framework, with participation from the Slave River Delta Partnership and researchers from the University of Saskatchewan.

We will also continue to work with communities and other departments on community source water protection planning and community-based monitoring to ensure our communities have clean drinking water.

Caribou remain an important issue for residents and implementation of the Barren Ground Caribou Management Strategy is a priority for the department.

During the next fiscal year, we will be working with our partners on management plans, monitoring the recovery of the herds and improving harvest reporting.

Work has started with co-management partners, industry and stakeholders to develop a range management plan for the Bathurst caribou. This work will continue through 2014-15.

Funding of $425,000 will be used to increase monitoring of Boreal caribou to comply with the National Recovery Strategy for Woodland Caribou and to develop a range plan for the NWT population.

ENR’s role in strengthening and diversifying our economy is to promote and support sustainable development in the Northwest Territories.

Our role in this process, as of April 1st , is to

coordinate departmental participation in the environmental assessment process, provide advice on measures to be taken to protect or mitigate impacts on the environment and ensure the measures have been taken.

We are also responsible for assessing, monitoring and mitigating impacts of development on our forests, waters, wildlife and wildlife habitat, which requires good and accurate baseline data.

This is particularly important in the Sahtu region where more than $650,000 will be used to deal with the increased oil and gas exploration activity and to coordinate regional environmental monitoring and research on surface water, groundwater, wildlife and wildlife habitat in the area.

The development of sustainable forest economies provides opportunities to build capacity and local employment in many of our communities. ENR is helping communities realize forest industry opportunities through local forest management agreements.

We plan to have forest management agreements in place with Fort Resolution and Fort Providence by the end of this fiscal year. Implementation of these agreements includes timber harvest and business planning.

Increased funding of almost $2 million, provided through the Energy Action Plan, will be used to support and promote the use of alternative energy sources, such as biomass, solar and wind, to help reduce energy costs and greenhouse emissions in our communities.

ENR, with the addition of experienced staff transferring to the Department from Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada, will continue to pursue an aggressive agenda to ensure the sustainable use of our natural resources and protection of our environment.

We will remain diligent in our efforts to work collaboratively with Aboriginal governments, management partners and all Northerners to protect our environment and ensure the wise and sustainable use of our resources. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Do you have witnesses to bring into the House?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Sergeant-at-Arms, I’ll ask you to escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Mr. Miltenberger, I’ll ask you to introduce your witnesses please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have Mr. Ernie Campbell, deputy minister of Environment and Natural Resources; and Ms. Nancy Magrum, director of finance and admin services. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you. Welcome, witnesses. I will now open the floor to general comments on the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to ask a few quick questions here. I appreciated the Minister’s opening remarks, although at lightning speed. I read every third or fourth paragraph as he was whipping along.

The first one was I wasn’t clear what role the Minister has in decision-making in the various environmental review processes for land, water and resources. I see where he says the department plays a role, but where does the Minister enter into the decisions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The term "responsible Minister" has a number of definitions to it. In some cases the Minister themselves will be directly responsible in terms of signing documents off or being involved in the process, in other cases, depending on what the project is, the responsible Minister authorities are delegated down into the organization where the technical people and other trained individuals carry out those functions. So we will continue to play the role that we’ve had in the past, but it will be elevated from what has been described as an ancillary role to now a leadership role along with the Minister of ITI and the Minister of Lands as we look at this development assessment process, the one window approach, and once again, depending on what project comes through the door, we will define what role we specifically play. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to the Minister. For example, type A and B water licences coordinating the process for Ministerial approval. What exactly does that mean and what role does this Minister play?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Deputy Minister Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Type A and type B water licences, as the responsible Minister, yes, we do work with the land and water boards there on the issuing of those licences. Ultimately we are the responsible Minister under the MVRMA in those areas, especially when the projects are larger or projects where these applications go to a hearing. There we work with, of course, the land and water boards on type A and type B water licences.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, I understand when the Minister references Northwest Territories boards, he’s referring to the federal boards. I know our Premier says we don’t have anything to do with federal boards, so I shouldn’t be talking like that, but in this case obviously we are the final decision-maker for recommendations from the water boards, such as the Mackenzie Land and Water Board. Is that correct?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister. When the Minister says the new conservation assessment and monitoring division will ensure the environment

is seriously considered and regional land use planning and the review of proposed developments, that’s sort of sounding like Alberta. They seriously consider things and typically reject the environmental concerns. As the Minister knows, they’ll let other jurisdictions look after Boreal caribou and the Jack Pine Mine and so on; these are all acceptable in the interests of economic development.

I just would like to have the Minister define what he means by seriously consider, the environment will be seriously considered in these exercises. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you. One of the key intents for the Government of the Northwest Territories deciding to become its own regulator is that we’d have a unique political environment and if we look at some critical framing pieces that have been referred to in this House by the Premier and other Ministers, the Land Use and Sustainability Framework, the work we’ve laid out in the Wildlife Act, the Water Stewardship Strategy, the approach that we are taking with the Employment Strategy and the Mineral Strategy all within the broad framing document and the principles, particularly the Land Use Sustainability Framework, make it very clear that we are deadly serious about our concern about the environment, the balance between development and protection of the environment and doing the things necessary to achieve that balance and have that guide us as some fundamental founding principles on how we intend to do business. We have been doing business and we want to continue to do business, but with more of a leadership role after April 1st .

Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you. We’re getting there. I appreciate the Minister’s comments. I would say the world has balanced itself into a box, a boxed canyon if you will, and I guess I’d ask if the Minister would agree with that on many issues. So, it’s all in that expression of balancing. We have balanced ourselves to death in many cases and we know that we’re losing species at an untold rate and so on.

The Minister notes that we’re responsible for assessing, monitoring, mitigating impacts of development on our forests, water, as well as wildlife habitat, but he doesn’t mention the climate and that’s probably the most significant event that’s affecting our people. So I’d appreciate any perspectives from the Minister that would assure me that in fact the balance will be tipped in favour of preserving our ecosystems that support life rather than to support industrial activity at the cost of life.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you. If we were to take out the Land Use and Sustainability Framework and go through the first few pages where we lay out the intent and

principles that are guiding us on the importance of the balance that the Member talks about, if we look at the exhausting amount of work we’ve done on the Water Stewardship Strategy we continue to do in terms of its implementation and how its guided us with our transboundary negotiations with the southern jurisdictions. If we look at the exhaustive amount of work we’ve done to develop a process to, in fact, get the Wildlife Act written and completed and the content of the Wildlife Act, I think the Member should draw some considerable comfort from those pieces of work, that legislation, those fundamental strategies that have reflected the intent and direction and drive of this Assembly and all the five Assemblies that I’ve been here and I would suggest all of the Assemblies before that. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate the Minister’s comments and his commitments and dedication here. I think he has done a lot of good work. It’s just that I see this government, of course, pursuing oil and gas as fast as we can and as much as we can, subsidizing it and so on.

What’s the Minister’s role in ensuring that the development of oil and gas stays within what we know are sustainable limits?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you. There are two key issues that we as a Legislature, we as a territory have to come to grips with after April 1st in particular, and those are, and I’ve said

this a number of times already, those are two key issues of pace and intensity tied to cumulative impact and we have to make sure, as we move forward, that we do it in a very careful, thoughtful way that keeps those types of concerns in mind tied into the cumulative impact and the sustainability issues, and looking not only for today but down the road as far as we can see so that those that come after us, our descendants, are going to be well served by the decisions we make today. There are some things that are not finalized, and I would suggest that the issue of pace and intensity of development are two things, as we look at life after April 1st , that are going to require our discussion

and attention.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. General comments. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Just a quick comment here, Mr. Chair. The issue I have with this department would be the responsibility in regard to our water management and the role that the government is going to assume after April 1st . But even as we

speak, Imperial Oil has applied to renew its water licence in the Norman Wells operation. It will be a 10-year licence.

I want to ask what type of role the government is going to play in the process of Imperial Oil seeking the renewal of their water licence from the Mackenzie River that has been done in the past.

Their 10-year licence expired so they are seeking another 10-year water licence. The water will be, of course, taken from the Mackenzie River. Doing the calculations, roughly estimating that they’re going to, over the 10-year period, request about three billion litres of water from the Mackenzie for a 10-year period for their operation. Once it goes through the water treatment processing plant in Norman Wells, they are going to be putting 1.5 billion litres of water back into the Mackenzie.

I want to ask this department, through its Water Management Strategy, for the quality of the water that’s going back into the Mackenzie River, is there any thought of working with the community of Fort Good Hope to look at a water monitoring station close to the community, because their drinking water comes out of the Mackenzie. I know this is going through the process now in the Sahtu and for the community to be concerned of the quality of their water and it not only stops in Fort Good Hope, it goes down to Tsiigehtchic and down to the Beaufort Sea.

Is there any type of insurance or some type of plan in place that the community could look at a water monitoring station? They have been asking for some time in light of Imperial Oil putting back 1.5 billion litres of water.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regard to the specific question of community water monitoring, there are sites that have been established. There is one near Good Hope. We also installed sites above and below Norman Wells, as well, with all the equipment that we use to do the monitoring to detect and be able to check water quality and what specific substances may be in there and at what level. That is there and we’re committed to building that network all the way down to the Arctic Ocean, to the Beaufort, to make sure that all the communities have that same level of comfort about the quality of their water as it flows north.

In regard to the broader question and concern about water licences and what’s our role, we will have roles in water licences. We are now moving into a quasi-judicial role where, as responsible Ministers, we have to be very careful about what we say about specific projects, where we say it, how we say it, to whom we say it to, to ensure that we protect the integrity of the process, that we do not create any apprehension or reasonable apprehension of bias, and we have moved from that ancillary role to a leadership role, and with that comes that responsibility to always be very conscious about how we comment on specifically individual projects as they are brought up, given the fact that we have that regulatory function, in my case, with water. The Minister of Lands will have

their authorities, as will the Minister of ITI, so we will ensure the integrity of the process and we will play the roles in the North that were formally played by federal Ministers.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

When you have a company such as Imperial Oil renewing its water licence for the next 10 years and stated in their submission that they are going to be taking out close to three billion litres of water over the 10-year period and putting back 1.5 billion litres after it’s been recycled through its plant, this states specifically to the chapter in our land claim agreement where our water will not be altered, the quality of water will not be altered, so the baseline study, I guess, is asking and I appreciate the Minister citing that there is the water monitoring, field testing or it’s actually a location where they test on a regular period, they test for certain chemicals and they test for a certain shift in the quality of the water. That’s what I’m getting to. That’s what we negotiated in the Sahtu land claim, the altering of the quality of the water in the Mackenzie River. That’s what I’m getting to, and just to give some assurance to the people in Fort Good Hope who pull the water out of the Mackenzie River to use it for drinking. I wanted to just state that for the Minister.

The other question I have is right now in the Sahtu there is a CanNor project along with the Sahtu Renewable Resources Board. They’re going into communities to look at the traditional environmental lifestyle and balancing that with the skill development with the industry. The report hasn’t been written up yet, but I’ve been hearing that some of the elders are being in these meetings and in these workshops, and I talked earlier to the Minister about having a gathering of traditional knowledge keepers of the environment into the region, and extracting some of that knowledge in the form of almost like an elders’ summit on traditional knowledge. Not everything can be pulled out of the books. You need the elders there with their first language and the history of the areas that they are using in the Northwest Territories.

One of the concerns, and again, I’m going to speak just on the comment that was made to me over the weekend, the elders are quite concerned of the water being extracted from the fish lakes, and that’s the concern that has been noted there. I guess I want to ask the Minister just on the baseline studies on the lakes that are now being used by the oil companies to use for their operations. Is there, right now, some baseline studies being done on the fish lakes in the area?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

There is baseline work being done, as I discussed with the Member during question period. I’d have to check and get back to the Member whether it includes specifically fish lakes, but I’ll commit to do that. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Next on my list I have Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a few comments for the Minister and the department. First off, on last year’s spending on forestry, a lot of people in my riding would like to see the forestry crews replaced with communities. I know in last season, I believe it was more than $10 million in spending. A lot of that money could be spent within our territory. I know a lot of it went south. That’s one thing we need to work on is creating more employment in the communities and stop a lot of these major fires before they get out of hand.

The other thing I wanted to comment on – and this was mentioned earlier today – was the Lands department. I look at the facility in Inuvik and there are a few positions that are going to be in Inuvik. It’s pretty clear that there needs to be another main facility there. The facility right now at Shell Lake is almost older than Inuvik right now, pretty close. I think it’s time to replace that building. I am not sure what the department’s plans are for the near future. There was a major concern earlier this year that when we do take over departments that we have the proper facilities for them. Right now, those are the only concerns that I have. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have 29 fire crews, combination of contract and our own crews across the North, understandably all in the boreal forest area. So we do have a significant commitment in employing local folks in the regions and communities to fight fires. Oftentimes, if there’s a big fire season like there was last year in the Deh Cho, we import all the folks we can find from other regions. In some cases we even have to import them from outside the territory if we are really pressed, as we were last summer where there was a flare-up, as well, in the South Slave. We were hard at it with all our crews. It varies.

The issue of Shell Lake, I’m assuming it might even be older than Moose Kerr School.

---Laughter

We do have it on the capital plan in a couple of phases. The critical first step is going to be the warehouse space and then the lab has to be rebuilt so that it meets the new standards as safe and meets all those tests. Subsequent to that would be the replacement of the actual office space itself. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

For a minute there, I thought they were going to replace both those buildings.

Just on another note, it has to do with forestry as well. Two of the communities, Fort McPherson and Tsiigehtchic, are looking to do some preparation

around the communities in the way of firebreaks. Both communities are in line with the forest and we need to ensure there’s some kind of break in case of a major forest fire.

Would the Minister be willing to work with the communities to ensure that happens? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We have an ongoing commitment to work with all the communities in terms of making sure their FireSmart Program is put into effect. In communities, for example, in the early parts of the fire season if fire crews are not busy, they can work on that and they have done that in many communities, help with firebreaks. We have staff that can assist with the design. So, yes, we are prepared to work with communities to see how we can advance those critical initiatives.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Does committee agree we’re completed general comments?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Page 13-7, department summary, Department of Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditure summary, $87.528 million. We will return to this once we’ve gone through the pages.

Page 13-8, information item, infrastructure summary. Questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Could the department give a breakdown of the large capital projects for $3.026 million, please?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Ms. Magrum.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Could I just ask the chair to identify where on the page that figure they are referring to is? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Ms. Magrum. Mr. Dolynny, I’ll ask you to ask that question again, please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

No problem, Mr. Chair. Page 13-8, infrastructure investment, large capital projects, $3.026 million. The breakdown, please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Ms. Magrum, right towards the bottom. Ms. Magrum.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will provide the breakdown of our entire capital plan which is the $5.091 million, so $2.856 million relates to the Taiga Lab, which is a gifted asset from AANDC as of April 1st ; $65,000 which is a patrol boat;

$100,000, which is warehouse complex upgrades in Tuktoyaktuk; $170,000, a regional lab in Fort Simpson; $50,000, fire tower, the Enterprise lookout tower; $150,000, Schiltee Rock in the Fort

McPherson area for a fire tower; $250,000, an incident response standby facility in the Fort Simpson area; $115,000 in Fort Smith for air tanker base workshop storage; $100,000 in Fort Smith for a planning study for the Territorial Fire Centre; $85,000 for an air tanker base workshop storage in Hay River; $150,000 for air tanker base dispatch standby facility in Norman Wells; $175,000 for regional warehouse upgrades in Norman Wells; $175,000 for a type IV wild-land fire engine crew support; $135,000 for communication network upgrades; $85,000 for repeater tower communications; $125,000 for a mobile incident command centre; $75,000 for a lightning location centre; $100,000 for air tanker base electrical service upgrades in Yellowknife; $130,000 to replace air quality monitoring station in Yellowknife. The differentiation between the large cap and the small cap is the total completed project if it’s over $400,000, then it is a large cap project. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

I appreciate the breakdown. If I caught some of the information correctly, some of them were studies or plans. Are those subject to capital asset depreciation? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

The planning studies are subject to amortization but only when there was a physical asset in place. For instance, if we have a planning study for towers, then we would have to have a number of fire towers actually built and then a portion of the planning study is attributed to each of those physical assets and those are amortized over the life of that asset. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

You learn something every day here. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. We are on page 13-8, information item, infrastructure investment summary. Questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Page 3-9, information item, revenue summary. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to follow up on my colleague Mr. Yakeleya’s questions. I see our water use fee is $80,000. That’s incredibly low, given the use of this public resource. As Mr. Yakeleya said, 10 billion litres of water at Norman Wells by Imperial Esso. We know, in fact, that that will be put to shame, in terms of the amount, very quickly by the activity with fracking, which is a very, very intensive water use.

Letting industry use these resources at this rate is an incredible subsidy. It’s an environmental subsidy, but it’s much costlier than some; for example, $15 million in the development strategy is pale compared to this subsidy. It’s more along the lines of the hundreds of millions that we are subsidizing with infrastructure.

The big concern here is that in many cases this is permanent loss with fracking. The water is permanently removed from the ecosystem and stored underground forever or returned in a polluted state to the ecosystem. We know that the North has very limited renewable water.

Will we expect to see some recognition of this, now that we have some authority here, in the water use fees? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We’ve been operating from the premise of we will do devolution and then we will evolve from that point. There are a number of areas across the whole spectrum tied in devolution where we’re going to be looking very carefully. We’ve said the same thing about royalties and taxation, that we’re going to be very careful and measured in anywhere, like the issue the Member raises, are going to be getting attention and we’re going to look at how we do business and are we the right size and how do we carefully change things if we do decide to change things, so I would say yes, we’re going to be looking after, as we evolve, those things will be looked at. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to the Minister. Just on the timber permits and licences, I know we’ve signed a recent forest management agreement and the Minister has mentioned that stumpage fees will be modest. With this activity, will there be any likely revenue in this area in the foreseeable future? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Deputy Minister Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. With the forest management agreements and forest industry evolving here in the Northwest Territories, once operations commence here we expect to see a significant increase in that area for revenues.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, deputy minister. Next on my list I have Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a couple questions on this page here. When it comes to the hunting and fishing licences, we know that there is the Wildlife Act and regulations are pursuant, as well as devolution implementation, as the Minister reminds us here, so how are these two new things that we’re going to be involved with, how does that change how we set hunting and fishing licences and suspected revenues for this fiscal year?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It won’t change what revenues we have projected. We control hunting licences and the federal government controls fishing licences, and there has been no change in fishing licences of any substantive nature for many, many years. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Mr. Chair, under the Environment Fund net revenue of $150,000, this is a change from last year where we didn’t have an entry in the revised estimates and I’m assuming that the main estimates of $246,000 prevailed.

Can the Minister indicate what took place, why we don’t have a revised estimate and has there been a change in net revenue for the Environment Fund?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Director Magrum.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There was no line in the original previous year’s estimates. This was a requirement to line up our main estimate recording for the public accounts at the end of the year. As we get to the information item later in the mains on the financial statement for the main estimates, this reflects the current year’s surplus projected for the Environment Fund.

There is no revised amount for the ’13-14 Main Estimates because we are expecting an increase in costs. There has been an increase in costs in freight, contractors’ costs, satellite depot contracts, increased staff required for the pilot project with e-waste. In ’14-15 we do project that we will have a surplus because we are going to be retaining a portion of the salvage value at the processing centres, where we currently do not. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Ms. Magrum. Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

I appreciate the response here. The fees for water and soil analysis, this is a brand new entry here for 2014-2015 at $524,000. How did the department come up with that number? What was their basis and guidelines for $524,000?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This was based on a multi-year average of the figures we got from AANDC. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Are those numbers publicly available? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

If there’s interest to share with committee, we could do that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

I just want to make sure what the fees we’ve got slated for the residents of the

Northwest Territories are indeed in line with what we acquired through AANDC, so again just a baseline. If the department wants to provide a baseline, I’ll definitely welcome it as a Member here, but I’ll leave it up to the Minister to decide.

On the subject of water use fees at $80,000, on what basis did the department set those fees at? Again, is this another number they got from AANDC?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, it’s the same process that was used with AANDC that we had talked about previously. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

So I’ll repeat my last question and add it to this question here. Is there any background information to support anything publicly that’s available that we can actually validate these fees that we’re acquiring here as a territory vis-à-vis what we received from AANDC? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We’ll provide to committee the methodology that was used in the negotiations with AANDC to determine the breakdown of these different line items. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

I appreciate the Minister’s response on that. Again, these are new entries, so I think we need to get a baseline. What we’re acquiring here as we’re passing this budget, we also have administration services at $32,000, again with no previous history whatsoever. Can the Minister describe what this entry is all about?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Director Magrum.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This item refers to some administrative services that are going to be provided by the Department of Finance, financial shared services. In 2014-15 we’re recording that as revenue from the Environment Fund and then the Department of ENR transfers that amount over to the Department of Finance. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, director. Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

No, thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Minister.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, committee. We’re on page 13-9, information item, revenue summary. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Chair, I want to ask about the Environment Fund net revenue. It’s showing $150,000. Is this a new fund? Okay, 2013-14 revised estimates isn’t showing any. Can I get maybe a brief description on as to this fund and this purpose and how it’s being used, who pays into the fund? I know if a company has been charged and convicted of a violation of environmental issues that they pay into the Environment Fund. Is that correct? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Director Magrum.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I can refer the Member to page 13-40, which is the information item for the Environment Fund, the revenue item is the current year’s surplus for the 2014-15 Main Estimates. The Environment Fund consists of our Beverage Container Program, the Milk Container Program, the Single Use Retail Bag Environmental Program and we collect fees from soft drink companies, juice companies and then the public returns their empty containers to recycling depots, and this amount of money is the Environment Fund. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you,Ms. Magrum. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. I certainly appreciate the clarification on this. I do want to ask the question then, I’m not too sure if I’m on the right page with this, in regard to companies that are charged and convicted of any type of environmental violation. Is there a fund that they pay into that is used to deal with this type of issue and cleanup and remediation? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There’s not a fund that I’m aware of. If they are charged and found guilty, in all probability there would be a fine and they would be tasked with doing the remediation. We also have our own security deposits that we have for specific projects. But there’s no fund, as far as I’m aware, that we pay into like the one we do here that we’re talking about right now. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Minister. I see that in another avenue here. Okay, time is up.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Committee, we’re on 3-19, information item, revenue summary. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Page 13-10, information item, active position summary. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Committee, 13-13, activity summary, corporate management, operations expenditure summary, $11.369 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-14, activity summary, corporate management, grants and contributions, $965,000. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a couple of quick ones here. I see the IRMA program has ended and I know that was an important contribution to some of our Aboriginal communities. Is there a replacement? I believe that those were federal dollars. Is there anything being put in place in that stead?

And I’ll just ask my other one here. I want a bit of an explanation of the core funding for the NWT Water Board. How is that amount derived and does it include all costs like for the three-person little subcommittees that we’re planning on having for project-specific things and so on? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are taking over the IRMA program. It has been renamed, we find it on 13-34, I believe, when we get to it and its worth about $1.6 million.

In regards to the NWT Water Board I’ll ask Ms. Magrum if she wants to provide that information. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Ms. Magrum.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The amount for the NWT Water Board was, again, an average amount that we received from AANDC over the last few years and it does include four positions and the operational costs required for the Water Board. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Magrum. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I thought it was an average cost for the last several years and there are four positions. Again, I believe the board is about 12 people. Is that right, or is it five people? Maybe I could get that figured out. Just with four positions for the board that would obviously be about $500,000, probably more, and any travel would eat up a considerable amount. Then there are the board members on top of that. It just seems like an awfully good deal to me. I’d be happy if that’s the full cost though. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. We’ll go to Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We’ll just dig out that detailed information in terms of the positions and the other costs to see and we’ll provide that to committee. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Committee, we’re on page 13-14, activity summary, corporate management, grants and contributions, $965,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-15, information item, corporate management, active positions. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Seeing none, page 13-17, activity summary, environment, operations expenditure summary, $8.197 million. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. A very important division here. I have a number of questions. There are a number of strategies that the department is looking after. The Greenhouse Gas Strategy, the Solar Strategy, for example, and I’m wondering if I can get an update on where we are with those in terms of their renewal period and what sort of evaluation. What are we achieving in terms of the goals set out? Are we on target? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. For that response we’ll go to Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Both those strategies are up for renewal in 2015.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Just in terms of there are specific goals and objectives there. I think with the Solar Strategies I think it was five communities with 20 percent, the five thermal communities with 20 percent of our solar generation meeting the load and a couple of communities, 75 percent or something in that order. The Greenhouse Gas Strategy I believe it was, I can’t remember specifically, it was a little bit waffley, so it’s hard to remember that one. But are we able to say where we’re at in terms of achieving those and an explanation of that? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you. The exact numbers for the Solar Strategy in the communities there, we’ll have to get that on that one. On the Greenhouse Gas Strategy, the target there was 1,500 kilotons by 2015, which was equivalent to our 2005 numbers and at this point, yes, we are on target to meet that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you. I recall that now. It was the one that we had already achieved when we set that because of the recession, and I suspect that’s not likely true any longer with the amount of oil and gas exploration activity and mineral development activity we have, the number of new mines coming on. So it would be good to get an update. I know this information is not up to date. Perhaps the Minister could commit to getting the up-to-date information, and what is our plan. Are there dollars in the budget for renewing these strategies?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We’ll provide an update to

committee on the Greenhouse Gas Strategy as well as next steps and, as well, with the Solar Strategy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

In terms of the budget before us, are there dollars here to start work on renewing these strategies in this fiscal year given that this fiscal year covers the date that they will be ending?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

There are no direct funds allocated at this point in this budget for the renewal process.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Will we be starting these renewals with existing funds?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister. On the waste reduction side of things, we’ve talked annually for many years about the need to start on recycling of electronics and tires and perhaps some other things and start moving towards an extended producer responsibility in the areas where we can. What’s been our progress in those oft repeated goals?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

The next big step for us in terms of waste reduction, and I’ll get the deputy to provide the detail, is we’ve been working on an electronic waste program so that we could look at diverting the tonnes of screens and computers and all this other electronic waste out of our landfills. I’ll ask the deputy to provide some detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. At this time we are undertaking a pilot project involving four communities in the Northwest Territories – Fort McPherson, Norman Wells, Fort Smith and Fort Providence – on electronic waste. Of course we’re closely monitoring that. We have in the plans here for the following year to build on that and have electronics included as another component of our recycling process. Of course, we’re working with the Alberta Recycling Management Authority there on refining an approach that would work in combination with the results of the pilot project, as well, so the expectation is there to grow in that area of recycling electronics.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the update. Not unlike previous year’s updates. Will it happen this year?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Yes, that is the expectation. It will happen in ’14-15.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to Deputy Minister Campbell. That’s good news.

The narrative makes reference to the senior science advisor, and I’m wondering who that is.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s a gentleman named Mr. Applejohn.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. I’ll ask you just to repeat that, please.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s a gentleman by the name of Mr. Andrew Applejohn.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I had no idea that Mr. Applejohn was our senior science advisor, but it’s interesting to know we have one and that might be interesting to pursue at some point but not here.

I believe, given that we are the authority over greenhouse gas emissions, and we’re doing some good work internally, but we still aren’t doing anything for outreach to speak of other than our incentive programs. The Arctic Energy Alliance is doing some work there. With the Diavik wind project we know that it’s possible to do significant work in that area, but it seems to have to be done voluntarily. Obviously, with all our experience now, we know that there are many, many opportunities where it can be done to achieve creation of jobs as well as meet our environmental goals and actually reduce costs for businesses.

Is the Minister going to ever move on the required renewable energy portfolio as indicated in the Greenhouse Gas Strategy as a possible direction? For example, when we approve a project we could start requiring, well ahead of time as this is going to happen in the next year or two years from now, 5 percent of their energy needs must be produced from renewable energy and that 5 percent is going to up by 10 percent every three years, just by way of an example, up to a certain amount. Is the Minister thinking about this and when can we expect some responsible action on that front?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Our attention has been focused on doing a whole host of things tied into promoting alternative energy. For example, we spent millions of dollars on our Biomass Strategy. We created a market. We’ve converted our own institutions to the tune of millions of dollars both in retrofits and in the savings. We are working hard to get our own biomass industry set up in the Northwest Territories. We spent millions encouraging people with rebates and subsidies to convert to alternate energy, biomass in particular. For example, the Power Corporation is going to be covering the whole Northwest Territories and changing all their lights to LED lights.

We are trying to provide the options to people in communities where there are no other options other than the expensive diesel. Right now we’re looking at LNG in Inuvik, which, while it’s still a fossil fuel is definitely cheaper than burning diesel. As we move forward and we renew the Greenhouse Gas Strategy, we will continue the discussion about setting in place the requirements such as the Member has suggested, but we have to make sure that in fact there are those options out there. I know Diavik has invested a significant amount of money in wind energy and are to be fully commended for that. Our grid build-out, if that were to proceed, would in fact put a renewable energy source within reach of a whole host of resource development activity in the North and South Slave. Those are all things, fundamental, very important things that we’ve been working on to meet those objectives.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Committee, we’re on 13-17. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to again raise the issue of the waste reduction management section with the territorial government here and the issue of waste management, the issue in our small communities, and again I’m going to ask the Minister in his plans with this department is there any type of discussion plans that will be coming forward in the future in regard to the amount of vehicles that are dumped in our communities. There are a lot of vehicles in there and there are a lot of vehicles piled up in the dump. I always thought this was a good incentive to look at how they can have these mulchers come into the communities, eat up these vehicles, clear up the site, put them on the barge and bring them down to a site down south. Take this mulcher and go to another community and do the same thing as part of the waste reduction plans. When you go into the small communities, you see a lot of vehicles and barrels and other stuff just sitting there. It takes up a lot of space there.

I’m going to continue to ask the Minister, I mean, we may not have the money this year or next year, but I think we have to start looking at some type of plan to see where we can start a program like this. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have focused the attention of the Environment Fund folks on the current recycling plus expanding into electronic waste. On our to-do list are things like barrels and vehicles. I was just mentioning to the deputy, I remember in Fort Smith last summer they came into the South Slave, I’m not sure if they made it to Yellowknife, but they came into town and we had mountains, literally, of fridges and stoves and washers and dryers and

they shredded it all up and put it into cubes. I think they did Hay River as well. I’m not sure if they came to Yellowknife. But they didn’t do vehicles; it wasn’t big enough. But they came in; I’m assuming they worked out an arrangement with the town.

So, we know that that type of activity is there, but one where we have a big enough piece of equipment to go and shred and compact vehicles is still down on our to-do list just mainly tied to resource capabilities. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

I’m quite pleased that the initiative is coming to some of our communities, as the Minister indicated. I would look forward to the Minister putting some type of a briefing or paper together. Hopefully, it will come into one of our Sahtu communities, or along the Mackenzie winter road, Fort Simpson or Wrigley and come through that area here. Maybe we can look at something. Right now I’m just hearing it from you and I’m happy that Smith and Hay River had the opportunity to do and we look forward to something like for some discussion. It might even be in the next Assembly, but give me something so I can continue working toward it. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We will provide the information we can to the Member and to committee. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Continuing on with questions on environment, I have Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to ask a couple of questions with regard to recycling. I see on page 17 waste reduction has an expense of $100,000, yet in the text it says this program is largely funded through the Environment Fund, so we get revenue… I forget what the revenue amount is, $350,000 or something back under revenues. Could I get the total cost of the program, so the gross cost, and then the net cost to us as a government for running this recycling program? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that response, we’re going to go to Ms. Magrum.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, I would refer the Member to an information item on page 13-40, which reflects the revenue and expenses for the Environment Fund. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Magrum. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Thanks, Ms. Magrum. Okay, this is telling me we have a surplus of $150,000 – that’s what we’re estimating – and in ’13-14 it cost us $1,000. Am I right in that? Thanks.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go the Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I think the category you want to look at would be the closing balance at the bottom. It’s projected at $1.892 million. Last year it was $1.742 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. Yes, I understand that. I was looking to get a cost per year, so we’ve got a good, healthy balance and I’m really pleased to hear that we are expanding recycling and that we’re expanding into e-waste, because I think that is one area where there’s a good potential for us to divert a great deal from the landfill and basically help our environment.

The other question I wanted to ask here has to do with contaminated sites and remediation. I’m trying to understand, and I know my colleagues asked a number of questions yesterday when we were talking about lands and sites and authority and so on. In terms of Environment and Natural Resources, what is the responsibility of this department for contaminated sites? The text tells me that it identifies, assesses, prioritizes and manages the cleanup of contaminated sites throughout the NWT, but prior to that it also says that this section works with the federal government. So, could I get clarification on just how ENR fits into the contaminated sites either that we have or we will have and where the federal government fits? Basically where the responsibility lays, I think, is where I’m going. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

There’s going to be a number of federal sites, the donuts, such as they are called, such as Giant Mine and others that the federal government will maintain. We have negotiated a whole list of ones that will come over fully to us. I’ll ask the deputy minister if he wants to add any further detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. ENR will be responsible for the contaminated sites in the Northwest Territories on transferred lands post-devo here. Of course, we are going to be working closely with the Department of Lands in this area as well. Again, our department is the lead department in this area on contaminated sites.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thanks to Mr. Campbell. So, I look at the amount on page 17 and its $357,000. It doesn’t seem like much money to deal with the contaminated sites that we’re going to be taking over.

Can I get an indication of how many sites or what kind of remediation to sites we expect to do with $357,000? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Ms. Magrum.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This does not include the accrued cost for the GNWT for the clean-up of identified environmental liabilities. That fund is administered through the Department of Finance. Departments identify what environmental liabilities exist and then the Assembly votes on funding for that Environmental Liability Fund, which then pays for the remediation of those sites. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Magrum. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to Ms. Magrum. So in the assessment that the Department of ENR does, is one of the parts of the assessment that they’re doing to assess the cost of remediation of a contaminated site either when it’s a working site or after it’s a working site? What I’m getting at is in terms of securities. If the department assesses a site as being contaminated, will they also advise Finance, I presume, that the costs to remediate that site is let’s say $1 million, then presumably the responsibility lies with Finance to go and get that money either from a company or from GNWT. Is that a function of ENR, that they will assess the cost to remediate? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are various levels of environmental assessment and the boards that will be involved, the ones that assess and decide on the security that’s going to be required for whatever particular project, at that point ENR has a role to play as the project proceeds and as it gets close to its end days whether the fund has kept pace with costs and what needs to be done, and does what needs to be done match what was initially envisioned when the security deposit was set. But I’ll ask the deputy if he could add a bit more detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Department of ENR will be involved in assessing the securities for sites. As the Minister mentioned, the EA process, we work closely. Our staff and our two new divisions have that expertise to provide that information to the land and water boards for them to determine and recommend the securities for the operating sites.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Campbell, I’ll give you a chance just to repeat that last part. I don’t think it was picked up.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Sorry about that. It will be for the new projects that are

coming on stream, establishing those securities. That’s the role of ENR working with the land and water boards in setting securities, in particular in terms of the water licences.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell, for correcting. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the clarification. ENR is going to identify the site, one of the boards is presumably going to establish the amount of security that is required, so who then demands of a company that they put up that security and once ENR determines, say, that liability is a million dollars and the company has only put up $500,000, who is going after the company to make sure we get that other $500,000 so that remediation is not going to fall on the taxpayers of the NWT?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

That will be a function of the boards and the approval process before they’re granted their permits.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Okay. One last question. Then I’m applying for a development. Before I’m granted my permit, I have to put up the security that has been assessed to me. Is that correct?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

The boards will set a schedule for payment.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Ms. Bisaro, your time is up. Let me know if you want to get back on this one here. We’ll go, again, environment. I’ll go back to Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to just follow up a little bit on the tail end of our conversation, the Minister and myself, through you, our Chair. I asked about would the Minister consider implementing a mechanism that’s in the Greenhouse Gas Strategy, and that’s a renewable energy portfolio, a mechanism whereby we would require industry, new industry, for example, to start providing some basic minimal amount of their energy needs through renewable energy. The Minister responded, noting that he is spending many millions of dollars. He has got many projects. He’s replacing boilers. He has a lot of programs under the efficiency programs. He’s replacing light bulbs. He has a Solar Strategy, a Biomass Strategy for more millions of dollars, and that they’re achieving some modest gains. That is basically what he said.

I’d like to suggest that what this is, is a very simple mechanism with no costs and would yield probably well over an order of magnitude and more gains in reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. I guess I would say, firstly, does the Minister agree, and would he not agree that a mechanism such as this, as he always says, very carefully considered and

put in place, responsibly put in place, would in fact not only achieve those things, it might very well support our interests in grid connections and a market for those grids and other energy objectives that we have as a government?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Two things: I don’t think we should diminish the amount of work and time and effort we’ve spent in making a fundamental shift in the use of alternative energy in the Northwest Territories, which I think is very significant and I think it in fact probably leads the country in terms of things like biomass and our investment in solar, especially in remote communities, and we’re going to continue to make those investments.

Yes, I agree with the Member that we want to look at all avenues when it comes to being as environmentally conscious as possible with the smallest carbon footprint possible, and as I indicated, when we go forward with the renewal of the Greenhouse Gas Strategy and the Solar Strategy, and as we look at the things that we’ve done and where we have to continue to go, we’ll consider that option as well.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I didn’t mean to suggest or belittle the efforts that we have. I’m just saying how much better we could do with so much less and thereby free up resources for the many competing demands that we have. Much of what we are doing is aimed at 4 percent of our greenhouse gas emissions as generation of electricity in our communities, a miniscule part of our greenhouse gas emissions, and essentially our residential customers, which are already going down on their own accord, and not at, in fact, industry where our growth is. I would appreciate the Minister’s recognition of that and bringing that focus to getting this mechanism going or at least giving it the serious consideration it needs.

Just on the financial security end of things, we know, for example, that the federal government is carrying leased properties, which financial security has been assessed but they’ve only collected half of the security assessed by the boards despite repeated attempts by third parties to get everybody up to the plate. What would be the case? The Minister presents a pretty theoretical picture but that’s not the way it’s working. Are we going to do something different?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Our intention, of course, is to protect the interests of the people of the Northwest Territories, to work with the regulatory authorities, and to work with industry to do the things required. I can’t speak for what has been done by the federal government but our intention is to make sure that we’re not left liable,

that we’re not left unprotected and without the proper securities in place.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That’s all I had. I just wanted to make sure that we have that commitment. I know the Minister would agree that a Giant Mine would not be something that this government could handle casually as the federal government is.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. We’ll treat that one as a comment here. Page 13-17. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I need to just go back and try to make sure I clearly understand how things are going to work around contaminated sites here. If I’m doing a development, I’ve gone to a board and I’ve got my licence and they’re going to grant me my licence and they tell me I have a payment schedule, there are two things and they both have to do with enforcement. Who is going to make sure that I keep to that schedule? If I do not, where does the enforcement come from? If, during the life of my project, which is 10 or 20 years, but after 20 years it’s determined that the liability for remediation has gone up and it’s now $2 million instead of $1 million, who enforces on me the need to put up that extra security? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As we proceed down the path to April 1st , we have this development assessment

process we are setting in place with Lands, ITI, ENR. As projects come through the door, there’s going to be basically a checklist and a layout of what needs to get done by whom during the different stages of the application process. Then once they’re in business, the monitoring of the various parts of the operation including the remediation if it’s required, the securities, and the enforcement. That’s one of the benefits of having an integrated coordinated approach and we’re going to be able to do that with the three main departments as well as departments like Finance that have a role to play with environmental liabilities as Ms. Magrum pointed out. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

So, I think the Minister is telling me to kind of wait and see, but I’m still not really hearing that, as a government, we know how we’re going to force companies to put up the security if they don’t for whatever reason. I guess I need to know from the Minister and maybe it’s not firm yet, but are we thinking about taking people to court? Are we thinking about pulling licences? What sorts of things do we have to enforce the securities that have been determined for a particular project? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, the schedules put up by the boards will contemplate making sure that we have money in the bank before

the project starts, that we want to make sure that we have the protected integrity of the regulatory process, that we have securities that reflect the need, the potential requirements for reclamation and remediation. If they want to get their permits, they’re going to have to meet those requirements that are going to be laid out through that process. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you to the Minister. I understand that, but you also said or somebody said that the payment is going to be on a schedule established by the board. I presumed that schedule would not be in advance of the licence. I presumed it would be I get my licence and then I pay over a number of years. Pardon me, Mr. Minister, but I’m getting a little confused or I have been confused and I’m trying to just find out where we’re going. I’m happy if you tell me that these things are going to be worked out and you will advise Members and committee later on down the line, but it’s a real concern for me that we are setting ourselves up for potential unsecured liabilities where we’re going to be left as a government to look after sites, maybe not as big as Giant but like Giant, where we just don’t have the capacity to deal with contaminated sites.

Looking at what’s happening now is probably a lot of the reason why I’m concerned about what’s going to happen as we go forward. I don’t think right now we have adequate security for the operating sites that we have within the territory.

Pardon me for asking the same questions over and over, but I just don’t feel much love in terms of the fact that we’re going to be secure when this is all said and done. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Our intention is to make sure that we proceed April 1st . We’re not

going to be licensing projects with no security, with hoping that they’re going to put money in. I mean, the federal system, I can’t speak to that, I’m not that knowledgeable about it. I don’t know how much slack they cut people, but the commitment has been very clear from the government that we intend to protect the interests of the people of the Northwest Territories on a go-forward-basis. There’s no intention of getting by on goodwill and don’t worry, trust us, we’ll be there if you need it. We’re going to be looking to work with the boards and the regulatory process to put the appropriate securities in place, that they are in a fund in a way that protects our interest, that the inspections are done and that we have a system that can stand that kind of scrutiny and we don’t end up coming back here in a year or two years with all sorts of enormous liabilities because we allowed development to go ahead without the proper protections. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. I understand. I know that we’re both coming from the

same place and I accept his reassurance, but I would like to know from the Minister if that reassurance is written in a policy. Is there a policy somewhere that you can point me to? Or will there be a policy either before April 1st or as soon as

possible after April 1st which will lay out just what

the Minister said so that we are not left, as a government and as a territory, looking after liabilities that we didn’t create? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, there’s an interest by the government to be able to come to committee and do a detailed briefing about the regulatory authorities, the processes that are currently in place that are going to continue to be in place and how we’re going to refine those now that our role is response as a government where we’re going to be our own regulator. We take over the authorities that were previously with the federal government and that would include being able to have that discussion on securities. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Committee, we’re on page 13-17. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be happy to have those discussions, which are huge in their absence as of this date. But what the heck, we have 25 days to go or something. I think it’s a very legitimate request. Where is this written down? The Minister has been saying what’s actually fact. I want to see the legislation. I want to see the policy. Would the Minister provide that? If it doesn’t exist, tell us it doesn’t exist and the intent is to do it. The Member, my colleague Ms. Bisaro, requested, asked where is this legislation or this policy. The Minister responded, well, let’s have a discussion. No, no, no. What can I say? We’re 25 days out here. I want to see it. I am making the same request. Please show it to me. Please tell me we don’t have it but we’re going to do it and it’s going to be in place on April 1st .

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We will provide all the existing policies and directives that govern securities and then will continue to be in place and that will potentially at that point, as we devolve and evolve, may require adjusting, but we will pull that together. We have the National Energy Board. It has set security requirements, but we will pull those documents together from across the territory and we will make sure that they are passed on to committee.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate that commitment. Will this bunch of documents include an NWT document and policy that requires financial security be in place before the project is approved?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We’ll provide what is currently there and what we see as required next steps. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I guess that means that maybe one doesn’t exist, but anyway, we’ll have to wait and see. So, so be it.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. I’ll take that just as a final comment. Committee, 13-17, activity summary, environment, operations expenditure summary, $8.197 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Thank you, committee. Committee, 13-18, activity summary, environment, grants and contributions. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Alternative Energy Program, I note that it’s reduced considerably from ’13-14 to ’14-15 and yet I see some new programs added towards the bottom of that page, so have we split this program up into a number of them, or have we just dropped a whole bunch in the Alternative Energy Program? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When I look at ’14-15, I see $3.889 million versus $3.6 million from ’13-14. So it’s gone up incrementally right from ’12-13, so I’m not quite sure what the Member’s question was.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. I’ll get Ms. Bisaro to clarify the exact entries on this activity summary. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The third line down, Alternative Energy Program, goes from $1.175 million in ’13-14 to $300,000 in ’14-15, yet towards the bottom we have one, two, three new programs: Business Support, Solar Energy and environmental baseline studies. So why the drop in Alternative Energy Program?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that response we’ll go to Ms. Magrum.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In the ’13-14 revised estimates for the Alternative Energy Program that included Alternative Energy Technology Program for $300,000, which does exist in that same line for the ’14-15 mains, it also includes a wind demo project, which in ’14-15 is a separate, stand-alone item further down under biomass. In the ’13-14, the Alternative Energy Program includes smart grid and it also includes a solar PV expansion. Solar PV expansion is a separate and expanded program in the ’14-15 Main Estimates. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Magrum. Questions on environment, grants and contributions, I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I just have a couple of questions on wind energy. The contribution to Aurora Research Institute to measure wind energy potential in the NWT, I believe I recall when there was this exact program a number of years ago. Is this a reinstitution of that program? I do remember seeing their maps and hearing some of the programs that they had going on that.

Just while we’re on the wind energy, I know the Minister has talked about the Storm Hills as a potential long-term solution to some of Inuvik’s energy issues. What’s happening and what’s the schedule on that development? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. For that we’ll go to Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Under the ERI that initiative there for the funding is for wind monitoring in the Inuvik area. There’s a second site that if we wanted to do some monitoring in that area.

On the other initiative with Storm Hills, we’re working with NTPC with that initiative and we expect a report here on that monitoring program here shortly.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thanks for that information. I’ve never known NTPC to be much of a wind expert outfit, but it would be great to see them get into that. They’ve certainly held up a lot of wind projects in the past.

Just on solar energy, again, I’m a supporter of the Solar Energy Program. I think the net metering discussions that have been going on through the board and thermal communities and so on, with participation of the department, are very productive. It would be great to see a net metering program get off the ground.

One problem there is NTPC’s reluctance to fund or waive the standby change above five kilowatts. I think that’s already the case, and obviously I think there are a number of initiatives out there in the 10 kilowatt area. Still modest, but could gain us a lot towards this strategy’s goals if that standby charge was waived.

I wonder if the Minister would have a look at that, and could I just get a general breakdown of what this $625,000, how that is planned to be allocated, if that’s known? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just in regards to the standby charge, I’ll check. My recollection was that we already had this discussion and we had agreed to

waive that standby charge, but I’ll double-check with NTPC, but I’m sure that’s what we did.

With regards to the breakdown of the solar, I’ll ask Ms. Magrum if she has information.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Ms. Magrum.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Magrum

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I can provide an overview of the Solar Smart Grid Technology Program for $125,000 in ’14-15. This is an electrical network that uses information and communications technology to gather and act on information. For example, information gathered about the behaviours of suppliers and consumers can manage electrical generation in an automated fashion to improve the efficiency. Natural Resources Canada is working with NT Energy and the GNWT to collaborate on an NWT pilot demonstration project. This is based on lessons learned from existing projects in British Columbia. Smart grids are going to go into Jean Marie River and Colville Lake. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Magrum. I think I concur with the Minister. I believe, Mr. Bromley, the standby charges were removed in October of 2013, but we’ll get that validated. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That certainly was the discussion at our level. Unfortunately, at the technical level, being privy to the discussions with the Utilities Board, I don’t think that’s what’s happening, so I appreciate the Minister looking in on that to see if there can be a correction there.

I’m very appreciative of this solar smart grid program. I think there’s some real potential there, so I appreciate the efforts. That was $125,000. I didn’t hear where the rest of the dollars were focused. Maybe there is an application or proposal program or something. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My note says photo PV systems will be added to diesel community grids as selected communities prefer. It ties in with the smart grid technology to help cover the costs of not only the smart grid technology but the solar requirements and now they have, as well, decided to include wind in that and batteries, so it’s going to be a very unique pilot project that is being watched with great interest by a lot of jurisdictions with remote communities. If we can make it work, we anticipate the penetration to be at least 50 percent of the diesel would be offset by wind, battery and solar. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That sounds pretty exciting. Good luck. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Okay. Committee, we’re on 13-18, activity summary, environment, grants and contributions, $3.889 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-19, information item, environment, active positions. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Seeing none, 13-21, activity summary, forest management, operations expenditure summary, $32.684 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-22, activity summary, forest management, grants and contributions, $210,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-23, information item, forest management, active positions. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Seeing none, page 13-25, activity summary, wildlife, operations expenditure summary, $16.118 million. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. As I have for the last several years I need to ask the Minister when there can be any expectation, if any at all, that caribou outfitters will get some tags so that they can revive their business, maybe revive their business, bring it out of hibernation or mothballs? Is there any hope that in the ’14-15 winter that they will be able to get tags for caribou? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

No, Mr. Chair. The herd numbers are such that we think it has hopefully stabilized at 35,000 or so. We are still keeping the hunting restrictions in place for the Bathurst herd, 150 tags for the Yellowknives, 150 tags for the Tlicho and we have agreed to issue and said the herd can sustain the issue of one resident tag to be harvested out of the Beverly-Ahiak herd and we looked at the Bluenose-East and their numbers have declined significantly from what we thought was well over 100,000 to 110,000 down to 60-some thousand. So we are at voluntary harvest on that herd as well.

So there is no light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to commercial harvest in this part of the country. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks. Great news – being very sarcastic. Okay, so does the Minister have any suggestions for these businesses that are scraping

by at the moment trying to hang on? I mean, should they just fold up their business and totally go on to something else, or is there some hope in the next two, three, four years that maybe they will get some caribou tags? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you. I’m somewhat restricted in my ability to talk extensively about the outfitters; we are currently involved in litigation with a number of them. We are working our way through that process, but in terms of the future for the recovery of the herd, it depends on what the survey is going to tell us and we’ll have the numbers probably late 2015 or 2016. If the trends continue, I would suggest that the outlook for any type of commercial harvest in the Bathurst herd is going to be very bleak, that wherever there’s road access to herds the numbers have declined precipitously and the herds are in distress. So in this area if we’re going to focus on rebuilding the herd, keeping the hunting restrictions in place to try to give the herd all the help it needs, but the future is bleak when it comes to commercial outfitting in this part of the country. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. I appreciate the clarification and the explanation. My last question goes to reporting and I don’t believe we have mandatory reporting for every individual who hunts caribou in whatever herd. So in order for us to maintain an accurate read on the number of animals and in order for us in the future to get an accurate read on the number of animals and to do decent projections, will the Minister consider requiring reporting from everybody who hunts caribou? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you. As we work on the regulations in the next number of months, that is one of the key topics of discussion among the working group members and there is recognition that you can’t manage what you can’t count. I’m fully expecting that by the time the process is concluded with input from the working group and the SWAAG group that we will have achieved a regulatory agreement as it pertains to mandatory reporting. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. That’s good to hear and I look forward to positive results. Thanks.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Continuing on with wildlife, I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to talk about caribou briefly. I know there’s a lot of concern from the Minister and certainly from biologists about the loss of cows, particularly from depleted herds through hunting. Again, as the Minister knows, we’ve had years and years of restrictions for non-Aboriginal hunters to bulls only. I suppose hundreds or thousands of animals were taken and I’m not aware of any charges for shooting cows. Yet the department is still letting

cows be taken even from dangerously reduced populations like the Bathurst herd. Biologists will tell you that cows are the most important component of caribou herds in terms of their recovery. They’re the ones that bear the calves and raise the calves and any pressure on them whatsoever is a significant reduction in the recovery capacity of the herd. Will the Minister commit to stopping harvest of cows and allow these herds to recover? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. For that response I’ll go to Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In regards to the cow harvest, over the past number of years with some of the recommendations that have been in place, we have seen a change in the numbers, the percentages of cows harvested compared to bulls harvested. We’re all aware that the majority of the recommendations warn hunters to focus on an 80 percent bull harvest and through working with our co-management partners and our communities we’ve made ground in that area. We’re now seeing a harvest where it was predominantly a cow harvest in the winter where we’re seeing anywhere from 60 to 65 percent as the harvest of cows, but recognizing there’s still a fair amount of work to be done in that area. But that’s a process we have to work through with our co-management institutions. Again, going forward here, it’s not an easy accomplishment knowing over the centuries and that the reliance on caribou by the Aboriginal people and the harvesting of the different, whether it’s bulls in the fall or the focus on cows in the winter is not an easy thing to change overnight, but we are making progress and we continue to want to work with, and are working with, our co-management partners in the communities to focus more on a bull harvest for a majority of the year.

We’ve also, with our existing recommendations, over the last half a dozen years a good news story is that the majority of these herds have stabilized and, of course, if we want a speedier recovery, we have to continue to make progress of reduction in cow harvests.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the deputy minister there. That is certainly substantial progress going from predominantly cows to less than 65 percent or less than 35 percent, I suppose that would be cows, 40 or 35 percent. That is certainly progress and I would certainly support the department in working on further progress on that front. I know it’s difficult. I mean, there are some cultural considerations and practices here, so it’s a tough situation, but I think the deputy minister is right. Without backing off on a cow harvest, the potential for recovery will be much reduced. I appreciate those efforts.

The other thing I wanted to bring up is the caribou herds of the east. I believe it’s currently going under the designation of Beverly-Ahiak, and has, I think, recently been approved for a harvest of one by those without Aboriginal treaty rights. While that’s progress, it’s almost ludicrous to come up with one tag at a distant and remote site like that. So far I’ve only found two hunters that are going to have the means to get over there, so again, it’s practically, in a practical sense, shutting out those without Aboriginal treaty rights again, despite there being a harvestable surplus. Why did the Minister restrict this harvest opportunity – let’s call it an opportunity even though it clearly isn’t for 99 percent of our hunters – to one animal?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I prefer to look at it as we went from no harvest to the start of a resident harvest to one animal based on the best advice that I got from the experts, the folks in the field. Initially, we had hoped and thought that we’d be able to sustain a similar harvest with the Bluenose-East, but the numbers came back not being able to sustain that, so we went with, at least to start with, the one animal. I’ll ask the deputy if he wants to add anything further about the thought behind this.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Deputy Minister Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Also part of the process for opening up a restricted harvest of one animal, the consultation process we undertook with the communities that use the herds to the east and also with the board, the Beverly and Qamanirjuaq Board, has also recently made a decision that they would also give recommendations on the Ahiak herd as well. We did the consultation and that process allowed us to land on one animal at this point and to closely monitor, to work with the communities and monitor, not just harvest but monitor the state of the herd, and going forward, if we see further recovery, we want to, of course, continue to work with them and the residents and explore options, if it’s determined that it’s not going to impact the sustainability of the herd, that we would look at that. But that was the process that came out of not just the experts in ENR. It wasn’t a unified or a decision just from our department. It was a consultation process, as well, and that was what we heard. Even opening up was a tough call, to open up beyond the Aboriginal subsistence harvest. We have some work going forward, again, based on some of the process that I identified.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hunters have a saying that tracks make for thin

soup, and that is exactly what the Minister has provided to the hunters. Pretty thin soup here. I have to say it’s interesting that this government is willing to bend over backwards to help one group of people and do nothing but create barriers for another group. Just a comment there.

I’d like to talk about the Yellowknives Dene First Nations work with the department. They’ve been trying to work cooperatively with the department and had an agreement with the department for three years running, and all of a sudden the department has gone unilaterally off on their own. I know there are dollars in the budget here to work with these people. Why has the Minister decided to go off unilaterally issuing tags for Yellowknives Dene First Nations people but to people who are not actually members of this First Nation and without their agreement?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We take our responsibility very, very seriously when it comes to all issues related to environment and natural resources, but with wildlife in particular, and we work very hard to accommodate all Northerners. I think we’re demonstrating that, even though not to the Member’s satisfaction. I point out that we have also, for the first time in 30-some years, reopened the harvest for bison, a modest harvest for bison in the South Slave, which hasn’t been done since the mid-‘80s.

In regard to working with the Yellowknives, we have spent extensive time and effort, right from the deputy minister on down, with repeated meetings with the Yellowknives, and I’ll ask the deputy minister to lay out for committee the steps he has taken and the efforts we’ve made both to come to an accommodation but also recognize that there’s a lot of pressure from among the Yellowknives to go and take advantage of the tags and put the 150 tags to use. I’ll ask, Mr. Chairman, with your indulgence, to let the deputy fill in the detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Over the last number of months we’ve been meeting on a regular basis with the Yellowknives Dene, with their leadership, with their elders’ senate, and there are fundamental, I guess, issues here that are not easy to address. We continue to want to meet with them to resolve this issue. We’re hoping that the latest survey of the Bathurst herd would give more positive numbers; however, the herd is still at 32,000 to 35,000 animals. The percentage of cows has not improved; a slight increase in the bulls; however, we all want this herd to recover as quickly as we can. We want to work with them to develop short-term management actions. We want to work

with them to develop long-term management actions. We want to work with them for them to come to the table to develop things such as range management plans for the Bathurst herd, also for the long-term vision of the herd with the overall comprehensive management plan. We need them at the table for that. We continue to stress that.

As far as tags being distributed to others, the non-Yellowknives Dene, that’s not the case. The 150 tags available for the Bathurst herd are for the Yellowknives Dene First Nation. The other 150 for the Bathurst is through the Tlicho. Again, we want to renew an agreement with them so that we work together to continue to employ monitors’ check stations as well to work alongside our officers. We also want to ensure, as the Member had identified previously, that there’s a mechanism that we accurately record the harvest and know what exactly is being harvested. We are open today and going forward to continue to try to resolve this issue with the Yellowknives Dene in relation to the Bathurst herd here and harvest. It’s actually beyond that. Other herds are adjacent to the Bathurst. We continue to want to work with them to figure out means to access those herds so that they have caribou meat in their freezers for the majority of the year. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Continuing on with page 13-25 on wildlife, I have Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There’s a lot of good discussion here on management with the wildlife. I just wanted to share a few things. I fully know what the department is working with. I had some experience with the Porcupine Caribou Management Board a few years back. I think that we need to do the same sort of procedure as what the Porcupine Caribou Management Board has done, was develop an actual plan for these herds in our area here. I know we have great success working with… There is a number of parties that work for that management plan, including the Inuvialuit Game Council, the Gwich’in Tribal Council, Vuntut Gwitchin Government, Tron’dek Hwech’in, Nacho Nyuk Dun Mayo Government of the Yukon, the territorial government and also the Government of Canada. That shows that people can actually work together for the health of the herd. I think that is what we need to do here. They developed a scale that, if the herd is one area, there’s action that needs to be done. Whether people like it or not, for the health of the herd, you have to do it. If we even did that a couple of years back, we thought we were in the red zone, which is 25,000 to 45,000 caribou so we did a bulls only campaign. We did take a while to get buy-in, but it’s just a matter of educating the people and the public as to what needs to be done to manage that resource. I know we are just in the early stages here. It turned out that, even with our actions,

because we didn’t get a good population count, the herd was actually doing very well. It was in the neighbourhood of 134,000 caribou. That just goes to show that…

I think we are at that critical point here. Everybody needs to work together to make sure that these herds are available to our future generations. I fully support what the department is doing. I think that we need to implement this sort of plan for the herds in this region. I hope that they can work with the people from PCMB to try to develop the same sort of plan for these herds here that sets down guidelines we need to follow. We will do that.

One thing I wanted to mention, too, it was stated that no one has harvest data. I just wanted to correct that statement, because the Gwich’in actually do a harvest study three times a year. Hunters do mark down what they harvest. I believe the same goes for the Inuvialuit Game Council as well. I just wanted to correct that. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the Member’s comments. I do fully concur that the model developed by the Porcupine Caribou Management Board is one that is worthy of emulation that the thresholds that they’ve agreed to have taken the politics out of the management of a very critical herd. It’s a lesson that we need to learn down here and a goal we need to achieve here are those types of thresholds. The area where the Porcupine is, of course, this is a very politically complex area. The biggest noticeable difference is where there are unsettled claims and settled claims. With the Wek’eezhii Board it is much more clear-cut with the Tlicho in the Chief Drygeese area, unsettled claims. The Metis are here as well. It’s much more politically sensitive.

I appreciate the Member’s comments. We are trying to take the lessons learned from the Porcupine Caribou Management Board.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Committee, we are on 13-25, activity summary, wildlife, operations expenditure summary, $16.118 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Page 13-26, activity summary, wildlife, grants and contributions, $969,000. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. 13-27, information item, wildlife, active positions. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Seeing none, 13-29, activity summary, water resources, operations expenditure summary, $10.737 million. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Page 13-30, activity summary, water resources, grants and contributions, $1.090 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-31, information item, water resources, active positions. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Page 13-33, activity summary, conservation assessment and monitoring, operations expenditure summary, $8.423 million. Does committee agree? Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is this the area that would include the CIMP work, the Cumulative Impact Monitoring Program work? If so, what do we expect? I know that has been a work in progress for many years and I think the intent has been to be able to identify thresholds that would help guide industry.

Does the Minister know where we’re at on that and when we can expect to have that sort of information? I know this actually hasn’t started yet, so I’m not expecting the Minister to be fully on top of this yet, but I would be interested in that information. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Yes, this is the correct activity for your question. For that answer we will go to Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, that is correct. The CIMP program that is coming over from the federal government as part of devolution will be part of this section in Environment and Natural Resources. The staff that are part of the CIMP, the process, the committee that’s part of working with the Aboriginal governments on CIMP will come over and, of course, going forward, we have to work with our Aboriginal partners here on maximizing the resources for CIMP. There have been, my understanding, some challenges in the past, but again, going forward, we want to work with them with the program over in the GNWT to see where there can be improvements with cumulative impact monitoring and also the environmental audit that’s part of this process coming over.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for that information. Where are we at on the environmental audit? I believe there is one in progress here, but there are sections that are wanting to be completed and overdue. Do we know where that’s at and do we

have funding in this budget to complete that process? Thanks.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

On the environmental audit, in the last number of years I’m aware of two audits being done. They’re done every five years. The latest one was done three years ago and my understanding is that there have been a number of groups that have responded to the environmental audit. Also, I understand that the next environmental audit is scheduled for 2015-16. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you for that information. Just on that, I’m sure the Minister is aware that in the last two audits, which were very good and comprehensive and thorough pieces of work, the recommendations where never followed up on by the federal government. Now we are the authority in most of these areas. Can we expect that the Minister will ensure that recommendations that come out of these environmental audits will be actually acted on and put in place? I think the 2010 audit repeated many of the things that were in the 2005 audit and I’m sure the same thing is going to happen in the next one. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the intention would be to fully consider the recommendations coming out of the audit. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Yes, that would certainly be unique, so I appreciate that, Mr. Chair.

Just what role would this division play with oil and gas developments such as are ongoing in the Sahtu right now? Is what we are inheriting here, are they already at work in the Sahtu area with respect to oil and gas? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. For that response we’ll go to Deputy Minister Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This division will still play a major role in any major development projects in the Northwest Territories. The focus, absolutely, is on the Sahtu with oil and gas at this time. We would continue to be a responsible player and a major player in the environmental assessment processes. The review of applications, the pre-screening and providing comments that are directly related to our mandate, and of course, as we all know, that is through the coordination of the three departments, but primarily the coordinating function will be in the Department of Lands, but our concerns, et cetera, comments will flow through that but we will absolutely be a major part of that process.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, thanks for that information. Will greenhouse gasses be part of the monitoring and assessment work that goes on with the projects? Is that now automatic in consideration of projects? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s not automatic; it doesn’t currently exist, so it would have to be, like some other things, looked at and built in on a go-forward basis. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Yes, that’s obviously pretty incredible in this day and age, and I know the Minister would probably like to see that happen. Would the Minister commit to seeing that gets done? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We would like to see the renewed Greenhouse Gas Strategy be reflective of the place we are in terms of our political evolution, and with devolution and having all these authorities, I think we want to take that more comprehensive look that the Member has been talking about. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

The Greenhouse Gas Strategy is great, but it seems to have been a document we can park on the shelf. These guys are out there assessing and monitoring and doing on-the-ground work, so it would be obviously good and appropriate and I’m sure the Minister agrees, so I will look forward to that.

The last one is on the ecological representation network, the Protected Areas Strategy work and a lot of this has been put on hold by the department, apparently waiting for the development of northern tools. What are those northern tools and when will we see them?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

The northern tools are going to be the mechanisms that we’re all going to agree to that make sense for the Northwest Territories to have at their disposal. When we look at things like protected areas and we look at things like the establishment of parks, like the proposed Thaidene Nene Park, is there an opportunity to use federal tools as well as territorial ones, the work is being done. There is a draft that we are hopefully going to get to look at fairly soon, but Deputy Minister Campbell is involved in that process and I will ask him to provide a bit further detail. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The northern tools project, there are two phases to that, and we are working, of course, with other

departments on that. The first phase was to do the analysis of current existing tools. The second phase of it, of course, going forward, is determining which tools are most appropriate for the conservation areas that need to be managed through these tools. Of course, that phase will involve looking at new tools as we go forward here.

The Protected Areas Strategy and the Ecological Representative Network Plan, yes, that would be a big part of this division as well. We will be coming forward shortly with the Ecological Representative Network Plan. We know from the 45 ecological regions in the NWT there’s a small number of them that still have no representation and that plan is focused more on core protected areas going forward, so the northern tools project has to fit with how we’re going to unfold this Ecological Representative Network Plan as well.

The Protected Areas Strategy, of course, we all know from the past that this is a partnership approach, and going forward we know we have to work with our partners here to establish a process that would ensure our partners that protected areas, if we want to continue to use that term, or conservation areas are part of the mix as we go forward with our Land Use and Sustainability Framework. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Committee, we are 13-33, activity summary, conservation assessment and monitoring, operations expenditure summary, $8.423 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Committee, 13-34, activity summary, conservation assessment and monitoring, grants and contributions, $3.335 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Page 13-35, information item, activity summary, conservation assessment and monitoring, active positions. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

I see none. Page 13-36, activity summary, land and water, operations expenditure summary. Any questions? Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In light of the responsibility of taking on more authority and responsibility for public lands and resources through the Devolution Agreement, it has always been at point at reality that what drove, perhaps, people to work together is just the uncertainty of First Nations and other governments. Recently there has been a trend towards land claim negotiations involving tripartite structures involving both levels of governments, federal and territorial governments and First Nations governments. Born

out of those efforts, we have land claim regimes. One very distinctive feature is the model of collaboration of co-management.

With the responsibility now, of course, keeping in mind that the other territories that are very similar in structure to the NWT are the Yukon and Nunavut, I want to know whether, indeed, we’re going down a path of taking on almost provincial-like management systems in approaching our partners with First Nations organizations and governments and whether that’s going to be changed.

The question that I wanted to ask is if the Minister could reaffirm that the joint stewardship and partnership of working in co-management still exists. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Committee, this information does not have any activity summary for monetary. This is now under the guise of the Lands department. However, with that, I will allow the Minister if he has any comments to Mr. Nadli’s question. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can unreservedly, unequivocally commit that we are going to continue on the path of partnerships with the Aboriginal governments as we’ve demonstrated with all the bilateral agreements we’ve signed, the way we’ve done the Wildlife Act, the Devolution Agreement, the Intergovernmental Council. It is part of who we are and I would differ somewhat with the Member’s assertion or assumption that we have the same regimes as Nunavut and the Yukon. I think we have a similarly unique arrangement and structure here in the Northwest Territories that reflects the people that live here, but it is unique in what it has done and what it has accomplished and whatever we do, we’ll do it together as we go forward. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Nadli.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

…(inaudible)…

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. With that undeniable response, activity summary, land and water, operations expenditure summary. Any questions? Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to be clear. What has been the change with the shift of this section to the new section on water resources in terms of our ability to actually regulate use of water? For example, with the fracking applications that we see, we’ve already seen the application for Conoco that’s fracking now and all of a sudden they’ve hardly gotten along on their first one and they’re already upping their requirements dramatically. Eventually much of that water will be stored in perpetuity out of the ecosystem. Does this department now have authority, or will it be

developing authority to actually regulate that? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, working with the boards, we will have authority to regulate the water.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I’ll leave it at that, Mr. Chair. We’ve already talked about revenue from this, as well, and so on. So, I’ll leave it at that. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Committee, you’re on 13-36, activity summary, land and water, operations expenditure summary. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-37 again is an activity summary, land and water, grants and contributions. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Committee, 13-38, information item, land and water, active positions. Again, any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Page 13-39, information item, lease commitments – infrastructure. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Seeing none, 13-40, information item, Environment Fund. Any questions? Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m just wondering, following up on earlier discussions, if we expect the electronics side of things to be paying for itself. Is there an opportunity to generate some revenue aligned with the costs of the program, if we’re that far along in our assessment? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. For that we’ll go to Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Going forward, once we have completed the pilot project here and working again with our partners in Alberta, that is the expectation on electronics here, is to establish a program that would pay for itself. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

That’s good news. I just want to follow up on one more thing that the Minister has heard about before and that’s our requirement for less than total return on deposits for milk containers. I know the Minister was interested or at

least somewhat open to giving a full return so that we’re not discouraging the use of milk as a beverage. Has that been done yet do we know? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My note here says the Milk Container Program was added February 15, 2010.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I think the issue was we don’t want to be discouraging people from drinking milk. This is an added cost to them because they don’t get full return of the deposit. So we thought that this should be one exception where people should actually get full return on deposits that they pay when they return the beverage container for milk. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I would say that that’s a goal that has not yet been achieved.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I’ll leave it at that and see if I can get a different response next year at this time. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Committee, we’re on 13-40, information item, Environment Fund. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Committee, sections 13-41 to 13-46 we’re going to do as one item. It’s an information item, work performed on behalf of others. Any questions? Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I probably missed it, but I’m just wondering what happened to the $1 million for the Biomass Energy Strategy. That’s on page 46, in the middle of page 46. Contributions last year were $1 million, scheduled to be $1.7 million but ended up being $1 million, and the year before that, $1.75 million. This year, zip.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Campbell.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The dollars for the Biomass Strategy, some of those resources were used for the Alternative Energy Technology Program to promote the use of biomass. Some of the resources were used to leverage funding from the federal government to do a number of things in relation to try to get a forest industry going in the Northwest Territories. A good portion, actually, of the resources were used there to develop forest management agreements in the South Slave.

There were some of the dollars also used to promote in other communities in the NWT the use of biomass, such things as martialing yards and purchasing equipment in Fort Resolution, for

example, for their small Wood-Mizer there, to get a planer there. There were dollars used in combination with our partnership funding with the federal government for forest inventory work, planning, marketing development, the primary outcome being the forest management agreements, the support to those communities to work with us in developing the agreements. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you for that detail. What are the GNWT contributions to the Biomass Energy Strategy?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Campbell

The GNWT, at this point, has targeted $300,000 for the Biomass Strategy to leverage further funding from Canada. We have a couple of applications in now that we’re hoping will come through and help us again to continue to go and implement our Biomass Strategy and a forest industry in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Committee, again, we’re combining page 13-41 and 13-46, information item, worked performed on behalf of others. Any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Seeing none, I’m going to get committee to turn back to page 13-7, Environment and Natural Resources, department summary, operations expenditure summary, $87.528 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that consideration of the Department of Environment and Natural Resources is completed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As we conclude the Department of ENR, I would just like to ask this Assembly to join with me to thank Ms. Magrum for her years of service. This is her last witness table. That’s her last budget book.

---Laughter

I would just like to thank her for her service. She’s professional, she’s very, very knowledgeable, as you can see, and I’d like you to join me to wish her a very happy retirement. Thank you for your service.

---Applause

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. I think everyone here would like to echo the same comments. With that, Ms. Magrum, congratulations on your retirement and thank you for your contributions to the House.

Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort our witnesses out of the Chamber. Thank you.

With that, committee, the Chair will call for a short recess.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Welcome back, committee. We’re going to continue with the Public Works and Services. With that, we’ll turn the floor to the Minister responsible and ask if he has any opening comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to present the Department of Public Works and Services’ main estimates for the fiscal year 2014-15.

The department’s main estimates propose an operations expenditure budget of $108.9 million for 2014-15, an increase of 4 percent over 2013-14. This increase can be attributed to the following activities:

increased funding to deliver essential support

services in the areas of infrastructure operations, general purpose office accommodations, contracts and records management associated with the devolution of federal programs, and

funding to support the implementation of a

government-wide Procurement Shared Services Centre.

An ongoing challenge for this government is our aging buildings and facilities and the requirement for regular investment to ensure the availability of infrastructure for the delivery of government programs and services. The deferred maintenance program remains an essential part of this department’s overall strategy to address our client departments’ building infrastructure needs. This program continues to be coordinated with the capital planning process, energy conservation investments and our regular preventative maintenance program to maximize its effectiveness.

For 2014-15 this department will once again have $3 million in operations expenditure funding and another $5 million in infrastructure expenditure funding directed towards reducing our government’s deferred maintenance deficit.

I would now like to focus on some of the other activities Public Works and Services has planned for 2014-15.

The Technology Service Centre will begin implementing its next five-year Enterprise Network Strategy. This strategy will allow the TSC to identify the cost-effective delivery of service departments, boards and agencies’ need to meet their program demands in the years ahead. Given the importance

of our government’s network in the delivery of such critical services as the transmission of medical digital imaging in support of health initiatives, it is imperative the network remain robust and reliable. The evaluation of new network technologies to help identify cost-effective ways to grow our network’s capacity while ensuring the security of our information is a vital component of this strategy moving forward.

The TSC, in partnership with the Department of Health and Social Services, will move the regional health authorities to TSC support beginning in 2014-15. This initiative will add 357 employees to the 3,450 government employees supported by the TSC in 2013-14. When combined with the additional employees anticipated with devolution and the new employees associated with departmental position growth, the total number of employees supported by the TSC will increase by 650. This represents a 19 percent increase in the number of employees supported by the TSC in 2013-14.

The Capital Asset Retrofit Fund program remains a priority for this department. The strategic energy conservation investments in building infrastructure managed through this program have resulted in significant improvements in the performance of our facilities and reduced operational costs, which in turn has reduced greenhouse gas emissions and our reliance on fossil fuels.

By the end of 2013-14, the government’s total cumulative reduction in fossil fuel consumption for space heating buildings is expected to exceed 13.5 million litres with a corresponding cumulative decrease in greenhouse gas emissions of over 36,000 tonnes.

Public Works and Services has identified $832,000 in permanent ongoing utility cost savings achieved through energy conservation initiatives undertaken in 2011-12 and 2012-13. When combined with the $654,000 in utilities savings achieved in 2010-11, the total realized savings and utilities funding re-profiled to capital under the Capital Asset Retrofit Fund program is $1.48 million. This is another step in the department’s long-term strategy to make the Capital Asset Retrofit Fund self-sustaining.

In keeping with this Assembly’s commitment to be as effective and efficient as possible, the departments of Public Works and Services and Justice are finalizing a memorandum of understanding to deliver maintenance services to the 112 RCMP “G” Division assets in 24 NWT communities.

Under the current Territorial Police Services Agreement, the GNWT is responsible for 70 percent of the operating, renovation and replacement costs associated with the RCMP assets. With this new MOU, Public Works and Services, in partnership with the Department of

Justice, is anticipating improvements in the overall level of maintenance and timing to deliver these services through the expanded use of local and northern resources. In addition, there will be efficiencies gained and cost savings generated by using government-owned workforces, and locally contracted labour and materials when compared to the services now provided through a southern contractor.

In support of the MOU, Public Works and Services requires five new positions in the communities of Tuktoyaktuk, Fort McPherson, Norman Wells, Hay River and Yellowknife to properly manage the additional responsibilities. The associated costs will be recovered through the chargeback agreement with the Government of Canada.

Another notable initiative for Public Works and Services will be the implementation of a government-wide Procurement Shared Services Centre effective April 1, 2014. This new centre will be responsible for the procurement of goods and services, excluding construction, for all government departments and the NWT Housing Corporation that are estimated to exceed $5,000 in value.

This initiative will see designated procurement locations established in the offices of Public Works and Services in Fort Smith, Hay River and Inuvik in addition to the office now operational in Yellowknife, and will include consolidated tender desks to handle the distribution and receipt of all government tenders.

To meet the procurement demands, the department is establishing new procurement specialist positions in Hay River, Fort Smith and Inuvik along with a contracts administrator position in Fort Smith to support the consolidated tender desk functions.

In support of our government’s commitment to decentralization, Public Works and Services will be establishing a total of 10 new positions in communities outside of Yellowknife. Of the department’s total proposed budget, $90.4 million, or 87 percent, is located and managed regionally in support of the department’s decentralized programs.

In closing, Public Works and Services will continue to provide the high quality services that support the public infrastructure our clients and the public rely upon in delivering our government’s much needed programs and services.

Thank you for providing an opportunity for this overview of the department’s 2014-15 Main Estimates. I look forward to discussing them with you in further detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Do you have witnesses you’d like to bring into the House?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Please escort the witnesses in.

Good evening. Mr. Beaulieu, please introduce your guests for the Chamber.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my immediate right is Paul Guy, deputy minister of Public Works and Services; to my far right is Laurie Gault, director of the Technology Service Centre; to my left, Steve Lewis, director of corporate services. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Lewis, Mr. Guy, Ms. Gault, welcome to the Chamber. Committee, we’ll open up to general comments. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Being the first, welcome to the Minister and his staff for this budget review. Thank you for your introductory comments here.

I guess I’m interested in some of the savings, the energy savings and so on. The Minister noted the 13.5 litres of fuel and almost $1.5 million worth of utilities. Just to put that in perspective, and I know the department is now sort of the utilities department for the whole government, what is our total fuel consumption for the purposes of heating specifically and maybe you could define the utilities? Are we talking about electricity there or are there other utility costs in that figure? I’m interested in what our total budget is for utilities. If it’s electricity, then what’s our kilowatt hour consumption? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. We’ll give him a minute to get that information. Mr. Bromley, go ahead.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Sorry, Mr. Chair, did you want me to run through all of my comments? I’m easy which way we do it.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. No, I just wanted to give him a minute to gather that information here. We’ll go to Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have a detailed breakdown for fiscal year ‘12-13, I believe. So we’ll provide that information and I’ll have the deputy minister just go through the chart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’ll start with our utilities budget. It covers all aspects of utilities including heating, electricity, sewer, water, and garbage collection. Within the area of heating, the majority of our savings that we’ve identified have

come from both heating and electricity savings through work that we’ve done on the Capital Asset Retrofit Program. Within the breakdown of the savings, the split is between electricity and heating fuel, primarily on the heating fuel side from a conversion of diesel heating to biomass fueled boilers and on the electrical side it’s through things like lighting retrofits, electric heating boilers where we have access to electrical power on the hydro system and through some of the building control efficiency systems we upgrade with fans, variable frequency drives, those types of projects in the mechanical systems. So that’s primarily where the savings come from. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Just the other side of the equation, what I’m trying to do is sort of figure out what proportion of the totals we’re dealing with here. With our 13.5 million litres in savings that the Minister noted, I’m wondering what our total consumption would be and if the utilities are primarily electricity savings as the additional energy savings costs. How many kilowatt hours are we saving versus what our total consumption is? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. I will get more detail with my deputy, but the total expenditure in 2012-13, of which we were drawing the $1.48 million from, was $28,793,460.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In terms of cost, 53 percent of the cost that the Minister spoke to would have been in electricity. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I didn’t hear what the units were for the $28 million. Was that the total litres of fuel consumed that year? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Those were dollars.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Maybe I can pursue this at another time. I’m interested in if we’re saving 13 million litres this year, what is that as a proportion of the total litres of fuel we’re consuming this year? That’s a statistic. I’m looking for both fuel and electricity if it is available.

With respect to devolution, I’m asking the departments to maybe explain the changes that they’re encountering as a result of devolution. How many new employees and what will the duties be that will be new as a result of devolution? I know

some are going to be just expanding the TSC program; I recognize the need there. So if I could get a little bit of background there on those two aspects of devolution. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

The change is in procurement, the Technology Services Centre and also in property management, office space and so on. As far as more detail in those three areas, I’d like to go to Director Steve Lewis to give you a more detailed response in those three areas. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Lewis.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Chair. In terms of devolution, it’s nine positions for the department. Two of those are under the TSC for charge back and two of those positions will be located in Hay River and Inuvik. The other seven positions, there are three here in Yellowknife. There’s a fourth that is identified in Yellowknife that will be staffed in Inuvik. That’s to do with office planning and there’s another one to do with office planning and accommodations here in Yellowknife. Then there are two procurement shared services positions, one in Fort Smith and one in Inuvik.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I see we’re up 20 positions for the department as a whole. So, are the additional 11… I’m assuming they’re non-devolution positions. Maybe I could just get a little descriptor of those. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I spoke about the procurement shared services. Those were transferred in from other departments for this procurement shared services that is under Public Works now.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister for that reminder. I always forget about those services. My last question is just on the maintenance side of things. So, the maintenance deficit, I see we’re continuing with our investments in that area. It seems appropriate to me. Have we been making any progress, or what is our O and M maintenance deficit these days? I know we’re doing additional work on the infrastructure side. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. 2009-10 our deferred maintenance was booked at $470 million. As of today, deferred maintenance backlog is at $290 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Bromley, you have a few more seconds on the clock. So, go ahead.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to the Minister. So, we are addressing this through

both O and M and infrastructure budgets. That’s my understanding. Maybe could I just get a brief description of where our $3 million from O and M is going on this program?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

I’m going to have the deputy provide detail on the maintenance portion of deferred maintenance.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Paul Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have a detailed listing of planned projects under O and M for ’14-15. I can read the whole list or we can provide that. A number of those are in Inuvik. Some of the work is on the hospital, some fall protection, handrail system, replacement of a heat exchanger on domestic hot water tank, a group home providing some drainage improvements to the roof and roof repairs, roof replacement in Ulukhaktok on the learning centre, some siding replacement, insulation upgrades on the learning centres in Ulukhaktok, Aklavik heating system. There’s quite an extensive list, but there are a number of projects primarily focused around protection of assets.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Bromley, your time is up. If you need more, just let me know. General comments. Mr. Hawkins.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. After such a great and vigorous debate, I feel we need to move a motion now. Therefore, I move that this committee now concludes consideration of the Department of Public Works and Services department summary and all related activities and information items contained in Tabled Document 22-17(5), Northwest Territories Main Estimates 2014-2015.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Just give us a second here. We’re just going to circulate that motion.

Committee, the motion is in order and the motion is not debatable. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Does committee agree that consideration of the Department of Public Works and Services is completed?

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. I’d like to thank Ms. Gault, Mr. Guy and Mr. Lewis for joining us this evening, and thanks to the Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please

escort the witnesses out of the Chamber. Thank you.

Committee, we’re going to continue on here with the main estimates. With that, we have the Department of Executive. We’ll turn it over to the Premier if he has any opening comments. Premier McLeod.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Yes, I do, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to present the 2014-2015 Main Estimates for the Department of Executive.

The proposed budget for the Department of Executive in 2014-15 is $11.563 million. This represents a reduction of $8.901 million, or 43 percent, from the department’s 2013-14 budget. The department’s staff complement will also be reduced from 71 to 66.

As Members know, the department has had responsibility for devolution negotiations and implementation planning, coordinating the efforts of participating departments and providing overall leadership and project management for this complex endeavour.

With the successful conclusion of devolution negotiations and the signing of the final agreement earlier this year, and with full implementation of devolution on April 1, 2014, the devolution negotiation and devolution implementation planning functions that have been housed in Executive will no longer be required.

In 2014-2015 the department will contribute to this government’s commitment to decentralization, by expanding the number of single window service centres to three additional communities. As Members know, the department’s government service officers provide services directly to residents in their communities, including in their homes and in their Aboriginal language. These positions provide local employment and make it easier for community residents to access many government programs, including those provided by Canada.

We are proposing to add three new government service officers in the communities of Fort McPherson, Deline and Behchoko. This will increase the number of government service offices in small communities from 15 to 18. In addition, we are also proposing the establishment of a single window service centre coordinator position in Inuvik and a regional administration assistant in the North Slave.

It should be noted that these additional positions will be established through a re-profiling of existing resources within the department.

There are some additional changes that are being proposed to the department’s structure and functions in 2014-2015.

The main estimates reflect the decision made earlier this year to transfer the program review office and Bureau of Statistics to the Department of Finance, to better align with that department’s existing responsibilities for government-wide business planning.

The senior advisor for the Status of Women position will also transfer to the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, as that position liaises with both the Northwest Territories and national Native Women’s Associations and with the Northwest Territories and federal and provincial Status of Women Councils and thus aligns well with the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations’ mandate.

In summary, the department proposes to reorganize its remaining functions to create a smaller senior management team, with increased small community presence and a more integrated organizational structure.

I am now prepared to answer any questions from the committee about the Department of Executive’s 2014-2015 Main Estimates.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Premier McLeod. Premier McLeod, do you have witnesses you’d like to bring into the House?

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Yes, I do, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Premier. Does committee agree?

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.

Premier McLeod, if you can introduce your witnesses for the Chamber this evening.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On my left I have Penny Ballantyne, secretary to Cabinet and deputy minister of the Executive. To my right I have Lisa Turner, manager of corporate services.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Premier McLeod. Ms. Turner, Ms. Ballantyne, welcome to the House again.

With that, we’ll go to general comments, and with that, we’ll start with Mr. Yakeleya.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was very pleased to hear the opening remarks by the Premier, the Minister of this department. I’d like to first of all say congratulations, because we now have government service officers in our communities, and I’ve been hearing some very good reports back from people in the Sahtu, and I’m very pleased to see that Fort McPherson, Deline and Behchoko will be getting these government service officers. It’s a good thing for us

and it’s a good thing that the Department of Executive is listening to the small communities. With our unique challenges and our languages, it makes a lot of good for our older people who are in need of this office. Specifically, from the lady, the person, the officer in Fort Good Hope, she was saying that she really loves her job and she loves helping people. I just wanted to say thank you to the Executive for listening and doing this for our people. This is a good legacy to leave in our communities.

I wanted to also talk about the Status of Women’s position and the moving to the Department of Aboriginal Affairs. I know the Premier has been working closely with this position. One of my concerns is the Northwest Territories’ position and stance on the Aboriginal missing women’s action that has been happening across Canada where we had some also here in the Northwest Territories. I’m not too sure what type of action plans we’re doing to help this great issue with our Aboriginal women who have gone missing, and helping our women. There are some in my region that also fit in this category. What type of support we are giving to the families as to the missing women in Canada and also in the Northwest Territories?

I believe, some time ago, the Premier did mention something, but I don’t know quite what was said and maybe we could be reminded. I think the Premier did support the initiatives on that. I’m not too sure, as a government, what type of things we’re doing for some of the families here in the Northwest Territories for Aboriginal women that are missing. Some of them haven’t yet found out what exactly happened, so I wanted to say that.

In my closing remarks, I want to ask the Premier, and I’ve already had some discussion with the Department of Transportation, so I’m going to use every opportunity to raise the issue of decentralization in small communities, and of course, I am talking about the Department of Transportation looking at when there could be some serious discussions about decentralizing. The activity in the Sahtu is getting quite busy, even to look at six months or something that would see more of the presence of Transportation into the Sahtu for decision-making in real time and support there.

I think we need to now move away from the old thinking of doing business. I remember the Premier talking one time about the Sahtu now wanting to have a stand-alone region and how we can now with devolution and how we evolve, as he calls it devolution and evolving. The territory is changing and evolving. The Sahtu is coming to a place where we want to have our own stand-alone region. We have other government departments that have decentralized into the Sahtu; still, we don’t have the full package yet. I would like to see that. That would

be the Sahtu devolution. We’re having a community vote in Deline where they’re actually going to propose their own community self-government, so we are evolving and things are changing.

I would like to know that this discussion could be had and opening, within the life of this government, we could start seeing some movement where we could see decentralization. I would like to start seeing that. Sahtu can be recognized as a stand-alone region in this government. We still have the old system where we are somewhat still part of the Inuvik region or the Simpson region. You know how geographically it’s made out in the books here and that has to change, just like we’re going through changes with Ottawa and devolution. Those things are changing. We’re no different. We want the same type of opportunity to have that discussion.

I wanted to, lastly, congratulate the devolution team and the Members, Premier. There’s a lot of hard work and lots of opportunities, lots of challenges for us, but it’s good that we’re moving to this next phase of our Northwest Territories. I guess the last sort of ticket to this devolution, while it would be in the future, will be a constitutional reform discussion coming to a full partner with the rest of the Confederation of Canada. There are many unique approaches to that. It doesn’t have to be the old conventional type of… It could be a very unique type of constitutional discussion, but that’s later down the line. I’m prepared to have those types of discussions. I think that’s where we need to be. That’s it for my opening comments. Thank you.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Actually, we are going to let Premier McLeod respond to each general comment here. So, we’ll go to Premier McLeod and I will come back to general comments for each one. Premier McLeod.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess I have the luxury of just choosing an answer to one of them. No. I will answer all of the points that the Member raised because they are all very important points.

On the matter of general service officers, we now have 18. If this budget is approved, we’ll have 18 of them. We found that we benefited significantly by having them very active in the community. Also, it has helped us with decentralization because we’ve had to go to communities, we’ve had to find office space, we’ve had to work with them on accommodations, so I think we found a winner in this program. Every opportunity we have to add officers to the communities, we would strive to do so.

On the Status of Women, I guess I should explain a couple of initiatives. We’ve started to take a very prominent national leadership role with not only native women or the Aboriginal Affairs Working Group or the Status of Women’s Council, we are

chairing Aboriginal Affairs Working Group and we are hosting the Status of Women FPT program this summer. We have strongly joined the call for a national inquiry on missing and murdered women and we will continue to do so.

On decentralization, I think it’s always been our understanding that after devolution’s transfer date of April 1st that we would take a very strategic and

well planned approach to decentralization. We have identified funding for market housing and also for office space. It’s our expectation that, over the next 18 months, we will have a very well-thought-out plan, including the potential of looking at the regional structures to decentralize a significant number of positions. That is our objective.

I think that devolution was a very big job. I am very pleased that our devolution team, along with the federal government team, were able to forge a very strong partnership and relationship to make it happen with a transfer date on April 1st . It is

unfortunate that all good things come to an end and the team will essentially move on, but that’s the way life goes in the government.

On constitutional reform, I think that we’re getting closer and closer to having all the land claims and self-government agreements negotiated. I guess at some point government will have to make a call as to whether they want to go into another, hopefully, final round of constitutional reform, but I guess that’s a judgment call for government sometime soon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. General comments. I have Ms. Bisaro.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a number of comments that I want to make. I want to start off, as did Mr. Yakeleya, by commenting on the increase in the number of single window service centres. I think it is an excellent program. The fact that we are expanding to cover 18 of our communities is excellent progress. I think we will have succeeded when we can get a single window service centre in every one of our communities.

I would also like to mention, in terms of devolution, I think kudos need to go to the staff who have worked above and beyond, I think, in the last probably year, but I noted, particularly over the summer when the rest of us were able to enjoy some time off so to speak, I don’t think there were a lot of staff working on devolution who had any time off. My heart went out to them and I want to congratulate them on the hard work that they did do.

I have a number of concerns, one of which is the transfer of the Status of Women advisor to Aboriginal Affairs and I can understand the rationale that we have been given and the fact that we are taking on a bit of a bigger role nationally and so on, but I am concerned that we are going to lose

some focus on increasing, sort of highlighting women and increasing the role of women in our communities and in our territory and also increasing the leadership of women in our communities and territory by having that person within DAAIR as opposed to within the Executive. I would suggest to the Minister that perhaps we ought to be considering maybe half a PY but somebody who puts a bigger focus on women within the territory alone, if we are going to be focusing more on national sort of work, so to speak. I would have preferred that that position stay within the Executive, but there we are, it’s done and it is over with.

The other move that was made that I do disagree with is moving the program review office into the Department of Finance. Now, I think the Minister has heard this already. Certainly the committee made some comments several months ago, I think we run the danger of having the program review office become too much of a budgeting tool and not enough of a fully functioning review office. I think there is a danger that the focus will narrow to just look at money and the review office should not just be about money. It should be about efficiency, which maybe generates into money, but efficiency in terms of providing better services and programs, which doesn’t always relate to money. Sometimes we get better services and programs and simply provide a better product but we don’t necessarily save money.

I put that out there as hoping that Finance is listening and that, you know, there will be some consideration for the focus of the program review office as it settles into its new position.

Lastly, I spoke yesterday about family violence and I asked some questions of the Minister of Justice on what is in the works for the Coalition on Family Violence and I didn’t get a good sense that it sits within the Department of Justice. It has been previously in with the Department of Executive and I don’t see anything in the budget, I didn’t see anything in the Premier’s remarks which talked to the Coalition on Family Violence. I don’t get a sense that there is any money in this budget to assist the coalition with the 19 recommendations that came forward I think in 2012. So that’s my one question. Who liaises and where does a connection to the Coalition on Family Violence sit in the 2014-15 budget? Thank you.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Premier McLeod.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the comments on the single window offices. As I said earlier, it is been a real benefit.

On devolution, we had a very hardworking team for the past two or three years and we will be showing our appreciation for our devolution workers, we are going to have a bit of an event before the end of the

fiscal year to recognize their efforts and their hard work.

The Status of Women advisor, we will make sure that its importance is recognized and that it continues to be elevated. The biggest issue that we saw was the need for administrative support and for events and functions. We are now well positioned by the fact that Aboriginal Affairs is poised, their expertise is in working on intergovernmental forums and I think they will be able to provide the needed administration so that this important function continues to be high on our priorities.

The program review office, I think our expectations are the same as the Member. I had discussions with the Minister of Finance. In addition to efficiencies and evaluations, it also plays an important role on risk management and capacity building throughout the government. That will continue to be a large part of its presence.

Family violence, the Coalition Against Family Violence, I interact with the Status of Women Council. They have come up with a report card and I know the funding is interspersed throughout the social program departments. I will be meeting with the Status of Women Council this week and I will be able to discuss this in more detail and if we can also provide some information on the 19 recommendations. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for those comments. I did forget one item and that’s the NGO Stabilization Fund. I think the Minister is well aware, as well, that committee felt that that fund needed to be increased in value. I believe last year we had, I don’t remember I think it was thirty or more, it might have been closer to fifty applications and I think the total amount of money applied for was somewhere near a million dollars and we have $350,000 in that fund.

It is obvious that it’s not enough money. Committee has been writing to the Minister for quite some time, trying to get that fund increased and trying to maybe change the criteria of the fund. There’s a need, as well, for emerging NGOs to get some sort of funding and the fund, the way it’s written right now, does not allow for that at all. So I just wanted to put that out there one more time. It needs to be more than $350,000 for NGOs who do work on our behalf and the criteria needs to be changed a little bit so that it allows for emerging NGOs to get a bit of a leg up. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

I certainly agree that this is an area that could benefit from additional funding. In 2013-14 we had 16 applications and 11 organizations received a grant from the NGO Stabilization Fund and for this fiscal year, the funding we had, we put into GSOs, but in future years we will look at putting it into NGO stabilization. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Premier McLeod. General comments. Mr. Hawkins.

Committee Motion 21-17(5): Conclusion Of Public Works And Services Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. After that detailed and thorough review of the department, I will now move a motion.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I move that this committee concludes consideration of the Department of Executive department summary and all related activities and information items contained in Tabled Document 22-17(5), Northwest Territories Main Estimates 2014-2015. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. We’ll just take a minute to circulate that motion.

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Question has been called. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Does committee agree that consideration of the Department of Executive is completed?

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. With that, we’d like to thank Ms. Turner and Ms. Ballantyne for joining us this evening and, of course, the Premier. If I could get the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses out of the Chamber.

Continuing on with the main estimates, committee, we’ll go directly to the Legislative Assembly. With that, I’d like to ask Speaker Jacobson if he has any opening comments.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to present the 2014-2015 estimates for the Legislative Assembly. I would like to thank the Members of the Board of Management for their assistance and input into this budget. The Assembly is seeking an operations expenditure appropriation of $18.989 million. This represents an increase of $750,000 from the 2013-2014 estimates.

As you know, this past November the Assembly celebrated the 20th anniversary of this building. We

made the final mortgage payment and assumed full ownership of this magnificent building.

Due to the careful management of the Legislative Assembly Building Society, we received over $400,000 in surplus funding that has been committed to a number of celebration and

enhancement projects we have started this year and plan to complete in the upcoming fiscal year.

The ongoing projects include a new exterior building sign, the rejuvenation of our Water’s Edge Park and the establishment of an ongoing scholarship fund for NWT students.

We are also working with our neighbours on some improvements to the capital site. In consultation with the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre and the Northern Frontier Visitors Centre, we are overseeing a project to put signs in place that will serve as a landmark and guide visitors and tourists to our building and to these other important NWT public institutions.

As well, we are undertaking some improvements to the Legislative Assembly building. This includes the replacement of an aging telephone system to make sure people can get hold of Members and staff when they need to.

This will also be the first full year that our House proceedings will be broadcast on direct-to-home satellite television across the Northwest Territories and Canada. We will be working to develop a program that will be informative and educational about the work of our Legislative Assembly.

This year marks the 10th anniversary of the NWT’s

Human Rights Act coming into force. This budget includes funding for the Human Rights Commission to undertake a comprehensive review of this act to make sure it continues to serve and protect the rights of NWT residents.

In addition, the director’s office will be renovated to provide a safe and effective environment, and a part-time position will be added to their staff complement to address an increased workload.

At the same time, recognizing that the Human Rights Adjudication Panel has moved to a new administrative model and that their caseloads have increased, we have adjusted their budget accordingly.

There are also budget considerations for the elections office as they begin the important work of preparing for the next general election.

The Office of the Clerk is undertaking succession planning actions to ensure they are prepared to meet the needs of the Assembly, specifically its Members and committees. Responsibilities within the Office of the Clerk have been realigned, and a new position has been established to support the Board of Management and to coordinate the office’s administrative activities in support of session and standing committees. This budget also includes funding to establish a one-year committee clerk trainee position beginning this fall.

Once again, colleagues, we are looking forward to a busy and productive year. Our efforts will be focused on continuing to deliver quality services to

Members, reaching the people of the NWT to make sure they are well informed about the good work of the Legislative Assembly and to sustaining a responsive, representative and flexible workforce.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This concludes my opening remarks. I am pleased to respond to any questions Members may have.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Speaker Jacobson. Do you have any witnesses you’d like to bring into the House?

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Yes, I do.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you. Does committee agree?

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses in.

Speaker Jacobson, please introduce your witnesses to the House.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

To my left I have Mr. Darrin Ouellette; to my right I have Ms. Colette Langlois, Clerk.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Speaker. Mr. Ouellette, Ms. Langlois, welcome to the House. We’ll move to general comments. Mr. Bromley.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome to Mr. Speaker and staff. It’s great to have you at the witness table there. Thanks for those introductory remarks. It explained a lot of questions I had on the budget.

I think the Human Rights Commission funding, I understand we are going to be doing a 10-year review, which is really great. I know one of the issues that I come up against quite a bit is the whole issue of legal support, both for the commission and for constituents who are bringing complaints forward, so I hope that’s part of the review.

I also note the increase of a couple of positions for the Office of the Clerk. I see they work hard every day and I will heartily support that. A very, very, very hardworking bunch there and the workload just seems to go up with our requests. So I understand that.

A small one I see is our revenue has declined from $15,000 down to $3,000. I’m interested in what’s happening on that front, although that’s a very modest issue. I see compensation benefits and benefits as a whole are up $620,000. I think that was explained in the comments with the new activity expected from the Chief Electoral Officer’s office, two new positions. If there are any other perspectives there, that would be useful.

Finally, Mr. Chair, I am hearing concerns about access for disabled people in this building, those with disabilities. I’m wondering what might be

happening. It has been 20 years, and congratulations to the Speaker on that, and the building seems to be in great shape. I’ve certainly never worked anywhere better and I hear that comment from people who visit, as well, and we see the streams of visitors in here. So this is an amazing facility, but all the more so as our Legislature to be fully up to snuff on the services we provide.

So, if there is a plan to start working on making sure full accessibility for those with disabilities, I would love to hear about that too.

Mr. Chair, that’s all I have on this part of the budget. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. I’ll allow Speaker Jacobson to reply to that. Speaker Jacobson.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Regarding the $3,000, that was for two conferences that were attended last year by myself and Members. We have no conferences planned for this year coming, so you shouldn’t see that again.

First of all, I would like to assure Members that this building fully meets the accessibility requirements of the 2010 Building Code.

When we did the review a few years ago, we found that some of our doors needed to be wider. With that and the 2010 Building Code, we fixed that last year at a cost of about $90,000. This made us fully compliant. However, I’m always interested in what we can do to make our building better. Before this sitting, we adjusted some of our seats in the gallery here to stay down at all times so it makes it easier to get in and out for people. So, with canes or crutches or if our elders are attending. We also started propping open our glass doors here in the public areas to make it easier for people to get through. You can’t get rid of the glass doors because we have them there for fire code.

We can’t do any more with that with our 2013-2014 budget; but as soon as we have our new year’s budget, we’re going to fix the doors with both disabled persons washrooms on the first floor so that they’re easier to open. That’s a priority. We’re also looking at changes that might need to be taken in other areas of the building, both public and non-public, sooner rather than later, for Members and staff. If we have wheelchair and mobility issues, we should be ready for that.

You’ll probably see us come forward with a small supplementary appropriation request so we can get it for that work to be done this year and a small capital funding request in 2015-16 so we can do the rest. Our plan is to involve organizations such as the Council for Persons with Disabilities to help us prioritize the work plan that we have coming forward to the Assembly building.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Speaker Jacobson. General comments. Mr. Bromley.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to the Speaker. That sounds like a great plan. I believe I heard him mention the glass doors and I know that is an issue for some people, as he said, that are on canes or crutches. I must just throw out a little personal anecdote. Having ended up in the hospital having my head stitched up, you can actually try and walk through those doors sometimes. I don’t know whether that’s an issue, although you might want to have a decal about eye level. That’s all I had. Thank you for that response.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. We’ll allow the Speaker to reply to that. Speaker Jacobson.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Decals are going up, and you shouldn’t be texting while walking.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Speaker Jacobson. General comments. Mr. Hawkins.

Committee Motion 22-17(5): Conclusion Of Executive Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. After a thorough and vigorous review of this latest budget of the Legislative Assembly, your loyal committee would like to move a motion.

Committee Motion 23-17(5): Conclusion Of Legislative Assembly Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I move that this committee now concludes consideration of the Legislative Assembly department summary and all related activities and information items contained in Tabled Document 22-17(5), Northwest Territories Main Estimates 2014-2015. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 23-17(5): Conclusion Of Legislative Assembly Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. I’ll just give a second for that motion to circulate.

Committee, the motion is in order and the motion is not debatable. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Does committee agree that consideration of the Legislative Assembly is completed?

Committee Motion 23-17(5): Conclusion Of Legislative Assembly Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 23-17(5): Conclusion Of Legislative Assembly Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you very much. I’d like to thank Speaker Jacobson, Mr. Ouellette and Ms. Langlois for joining us this evening. Mr. Speaker, if you have final comments. Speaker Jacobson.

Committee Motion 23-17(5): Conclusion Of Legislative Assembly Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Jackie Jacobson

Jackie Jacobson Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’d just like to thank my staff, the Clerk’s staff and the staff here at the Legislative Assembly who keep doing the good work that we’re doing on your behalf to make sure that the lives of the Members are made easier while we’re sitting down here for such

a long time. Thank you to the staff and to the staff up in my office. Thank you very much.

Committee Motion 23-17(5): Conclusion Of Legislative Assembly Department Summary, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Speaker Jacobson. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please escort the witnesses out. Thank you.

Committee, we’re going to go to Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that consideration of Tabled Document 22-17(5),

Northwest Territories Main Estimates 2014-2015, be now concluded and that Tabled Document 22-17(5) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. We’ll just circulate that motion. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Question has been called. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Ms. Bisaro, what is the wish of committee?

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that we report progress.

---Carried

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

I will now rise and report progress.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Good evening. Can I have the report of Committee of the Whole, Mr. Dolynny.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Tabled Document 22-17(5), Northwest Territories Main Estimates 2014-2015, and would like to report progress with four motions being adopted and that consideration of Tabled Document 22-17(5) is concluded and that the House concur in those estimates and that an appropriation bill to be based thereon be introduced without delay. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Do I have a seconder? Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 22, third reading of bills. Madam Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Clerk Of The House (Ms. Langlois)

Orders of the day for Wednesday, March 5, 2014, at 1:30 p.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’

Statements

3. Members’

Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Acknowledgements

7. Oral

Questions

8. Written

Questions

9. Returns to Written Questions

10. Replies to Opening Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

- Motion 13-17(5), Training for Early

Childhood Education Workers

18. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 15, Oil and Gas Operations Act

- Bill 16, NWT Intergovernmental Agreement on Lands and Resources Management Act

- Bill 17, NWT Intergovernmental Resource Revenue Sharing Agreement Act

19. Second Reading of Bills

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 4-17(5), Northwest Territories Electoral Boundaries Commission 2013 Final Report

- Tabled Document 44, Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditure), No. 4, 2013-2014

- Tabled Document 45, Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2014-2015

- Tabled Document 51, Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2012-2013

- Tabled Document 52, Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2013-2014

- Tabled Document 22-17(5), Northwest Territories Main Estimates 2014-2015

- Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Motor Vehicles Act

- Bill 10, Northwest Territories Lands Act

- Bill 11, Petroleum Resources Act

- Bill 13, Devolution Measures Act

- Bill 14, Waters Act

- Committee Report 2-17(5), Report on the Review of the 2012-2013 Public Accounts

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

23. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Madam Clerk. For the record, I was so excited to get this done, I forgot about the seconder, Mr. Miltenberger. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Wednesday, March 5th , at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 7:43 p.m.