This is page numbers 6559 – 6620 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

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Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Committee. If I can get you to turn to page 59. Lands, total infrastructure investments, $1.350 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that we have concluded consideration for the Department of Lands?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Mr. Warren, Ms. Hilderman, thanks for joining us for an easy one, and thank you, Minister McLeod. Sergeant-at-Arms, if I could get you to please escort the witnesses out of the Chamber. Thank you.

Okay, committee, we are going to continue with capital estimates. Next on the list we have Municipal and Community Affairs. Again, I will turn it over to the

Minister responsible to see if he has witnesses he wants to bring in. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes I do, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you would escort the witnesses in, please.

Minister McLeod, would you be kind enough to introduce your witnesses this evening?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. To my left I have Mr. Tom Williams, deputy minister of MACA; and to my right, Ms. Eleanor Young, who is the assistant deputy minister of MACA.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Mr. Williams, Ms. Young, thank you for joining us this evening. Committee, we are on Municipal and Community Affairs. We are on page 63 onward in your capital estimates. We will turn it over to general comments. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There is just one section, the infrastructure contributions to communities here in this department and I have to state, I think I stated in my opening remarks to the budget, as well, and I have stated here in this department, that communities have been funded for their capital infrastructure at the same level for far too many years. If I look at the background information that we are provided, the government is proposing to keep communities at the same infrastructure funding level for the next two or three or four years to come. That is a real concern for me.

Our communities, under the New Deal, which started quite a few years ago now, have been taking on more and more infrastructure. They have accepted what used to be government infrastructure and it has now become community infrastructure and as they grow, as communities grow, they build their own infrastructure. Yet, they are funded at the same level for their capital projects as they have been for quite some years. I don’t know how far back it goes but it goes back a long way.

There have been discussions about doing a review. There certainly has been a review done on operational funding and I am very glad for that and there were some changes made, but there needs to be, and there should have been, the same review on capital infrastructure funding for communities. I don’t think that’s finished. I hope that it is in the works. I would ask the Minister to confirm that it is happening. If it is not happening, it certainly had better be one of the first things that are done in the 18th Assembly. It’s

really important that the government recognizes that our communities are doing more and more on less and less and we cannot expect them to be

subsistent. We can’t expect them to protect our residents, to provide services for our residents if we don’t give them the capital dollars to keep their infrastructure up to snuff.

So, it’s just a comment, Mr.

Chair.

I do have a question. Where are we at in terms of a review of the funding? Other than t

hat, that’s all I

have. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member is absolutely correct; funding has stayed at the same level for a while. We have been very fortunate to have been able to leverage some federal dollars to send the communities. We recognize there is a bit of a shortfall, and as far as the assessment, it was part of the formula funding review. Not only did we look at the O and M, we looked at the capital as well. That work has been completed. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister McLeod. I will allow Ms. Bisaro another comment as she has time on the clock. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I guess I could have held this question, but if the review has been completed, I have to then ask, when are we going to see an increase in this funding? There’s no projection that I’m aware of to increase infrastructure funding anytime soon.

To the Minister: How long are communities going to have to wait before they get some more capital dollars for their infrastructure? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We had originally intended to start this work I think early in the life of the 18th Assembly, but we fast-tracked it and did the

formula funding review work before the end of this Assembly. Once the 18th Assembly comes into

being, they will have to have a look at the fiscal situation. If there are opportunities to increase the money to the communities, then the Minister of the day will have to bring that forward and try to get the funds increased. So, the work has already been completed, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

To the Minister: I can appreciate that we’re in a tight fiscal situation; however, $28 million in a 1.6 or 1.7 billion dollar budget is a very small percentage. I know communities are not going to get a doubling of the infrastructure dollars that are shown in this budget, but I think our communities, if we expect them to continue and if we expect our residents to continue getting the municipal services that they need

– dogs, ditches and dumps, as they

say

– if that’s going to continue, we’re going to have

to give them bigger infrastructure dollars. So, I strongly encourage the 18th Assembly to look at the

amount of money that’s going into our communities for capital and to increase it by even 10 percent

would make municipalities happy, I’m sure, and that’s not a heck of a lot of money. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I didn’t quite hear a question there, but I will allow the Minister a comment. Minister R.C. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We agree with the Member. I think it’s a discussion that needs to happen early in the life of the 18th so

there are opportunities to secure some funding for the commu

nities which badly need it. I think that’s a

debate that has to be taken up early in the life of the 18th , because we have done all the work through the

formula funding review and I believe there was a capital deficit of about $24 million. So, we’ve identi

fied it and I think we’ve flagged it. Then again,

it’s a decision that’s going to have to be made early in the life of the 18th . Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Continuing with general comments on Municipal and Community Affairs, I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe the Minister answered my question. Did you know I was going to ask this question? With his last breath there, I think he mentioned that the formula review did indicate a shortfall of about $24 million. Did I hear that correctly? Yes. So we’ve been underfunding about $24 million a year. Yes, it’s a serious issue. I know the Minister recognizes it. I think the question has been answered. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. I’ll treat that as a general comment. No question. Next on my list for general comments I have Mr. Bouchard.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

September 30th, 2015

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

That was my same questioning along those lines is with the Association of Municipalities. We got together last night and obviously they’re concerned with some of the way this capital budget seems to be locked in forever. Obviously, they are seeing pressures. Obviously, the cost of living is going up, the cost of contracting. I would assume that that number is probably light at $24 million. I know Hay River has a lot of infrastructure pressure

right now, and that’s not only

w

hat they’re using currently with our funding, but gas

tax money and they’re still seeing deficits and it’s going to take them probably 10 or 15 years. They could probably just about eat up this whole budget and not touch the whole deficit that they have.

The bigger communities are seeing more and more people coming there. There are more and more regional pressures from different communities. I think we need to really strongly look at this as a funding arrangement and how we deal with the regional centres that are seeing pressures. We have a lot of people who come from outside the community. We appreciate that for the economy, but a lot of our facilities and infrastructure are used by

those people. Not only our physical structures and physical buildings but our emergency services and all that type of stuff, medical services. We have a whole bunch of pressures from the surrounding area and I would assume similar to regional centres throughout the territory.

Like my colleagues, I’d like to stress that we can’t lock this in. There has to be at least a CPI index to that to get to some point where we’re seeing an increase to it, because at these levels the communities are going to keep falling farther and farther behind and it gets more and more burdensome on the taxpayers

and it’s not

necessarily fair because not all the usage is being done just by the taxpayers. I’m not sure if in the review they actually looked at that regional concept of regional usages. Can the Minister indicate to me whether they did that?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Minister McLeod.