This is page numbers 6331 – 6390 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was public.

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I would submit to this House and to the Member that there has been a full and normal capital planning process that the Members have been involved in and the fruits of those labours will come forward as a proposed capital plan for the last session at the end of September.

When we made the case to the federal government about the need for an increased borrowing limit, we clearly targeted it for those infrastructure investments that have the ability to promote and help create the conditions for economic development. In order to substantiate that case, we made some very specific recommendations. We suggested and we indicated that we believe there is an opportunity, and we know there is an opportunity to convert, for example, the winter road north to MacKay Lake to the mines to an all-weather road. We indicated and we have submitted a proposal that committee is fully aware of, to extend the Mackenzie Highway from Wrigley to Norman Wells. We’ve put in a project proposal for projects of national significance. That one has been in the works for some time. We have indicated at our last energy charrette that we know that there are generation issues, especially in Yellowknife and in the thermal communities. We have indicated that we think, as a government, we should be prepared to invest significant money in the appropriate projects to advance and get people off diesel and to make cost of living more affordable in especially the thermal communities and to address some of the pressing generation needs in Yellowknife.

Those are some specific examples. There are not only examples, there has been work done. It’s going to be to get the groundwork done to start the

planning, and that is the way, and committee is fully aware of all those proposed projects. We needed to get the groundwork done and we needed to be able to convince the federal government that our thinking was clear on why we needed that borrowing limit increase.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that fulsome response. I am somewhat dismayed. The Minister says that we are fully aware. Yes, I would say we may be fully aware of some of them through the media. I’m not sure that we’ve had full disclosure from Cabinet on some of those suggestions. Certainly we’re aware that there are projects that are in the works and we’ve been advised of those.

One of the other statements that the Minister made last week was “…infrastructure that will support the responsible development of the NWT and its economy.” When I read that, it said to me that we’re certainly narrowing the scope of the projects that we could deal with. The Minister mentioned quite a number of projects that go towards development and go towards the economy, but I was very dismayed and I have not heard much talk about this, certainly from any of Cabinet in the last number of months. I was dismayed not to hear anything about hydro.

Can the Minister tell me whether or not there are any plans, since I haven’t seen them, any plans to use some of this extra borrowing limit for development of our hydro to help address our cost of living of power? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I’ll just restate that we have, over the last 18 months probably, two years, we’ve been before committee on a number of occasions as our thinking has evolved on the projects, the borrowing limit, what projects we’re identifying to justify and to get the borrowing limit. If there’s a need for further meetings, we’d of course be happy to have that. When we talk about a significant investment in generation capacity in Yellowknife specifically, one of the things that are there is they hydro expansion, both potentially to the Bluefish as well as there is additional capacity in the Lac La Martre River, in the Snare system. We know that there’s additional capacity in the Taltson system.

The issue right now with that is that the only place we can dispose of that surplus would be to sell it south and use the money in the North, but we do have those types of projects on the list as well. It’s going to be a question of priorities and affordability.

The borrowing limit is not free money. This is money we have to pay back. So we have to be very, very careful and measure how we exercise the decision-making here. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Speaker. Thanks again to the Minister. I guess I agree with the Minister this is not free money and we have to be careful how we borrow it and what we do with it.

So, I guess I would like to know from the Minister if there is a list of things that they are contemplating that may or may not be in the capital budget, will the Minister commit to providing that list to Regular Members so we can have some comment on that list back to Cabinet before a capital budget is determined? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

I can put in writing the projects that I’ve mentioned, but I can tell you in this House, unequivocally, with no hesitation, that the capital plan that is coming forward is the last capital plan of this 17th Legislative Assembly that we have negotiated. The increase for borrowing limits to allow us to do things, we’re currently sorting out the potential amendments to the definition of borrowing. It may give us other flexibility, but there is and are no plans, other than what is in the current capital plan and the work that I just laid out to the Member about how, what projects we identify as things that we believe that the government should focus on to put that borrowing limit increase into play. But there has been no time, no process, no debate, no authorization to engage in any kind of major infrastructure. The only capital plan that’s going to hit the table is the one that has been in the works now as part of our regular cycle. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have questions for the Minister of ITI and, believe it or not it’s actually not on hydraulic fracturing because, well, I think the answers themselves are self-explanatory, but it actually is more on another area of his portfolio, which is about parks and camping and whatnot.

I’ve been contacted by people who have actually visited the Fred Henne Park and they’ve complained about the fact that a lack of enforcement is present in the park. So when we’re trying to encourage tourism, when we’re trying to encourage people to spend good quality time with their families, but at the same time we’re having partiers party way past midnight, 1:30 and later, and they have no one to contact to complain about the drinking and the rowdy and noisy profanity that’s happening next door.

How do people encourage their children, through family-orientated organizations, while they have a fire burning that’s defying the city and territorial ban

on fires when they have no one to call? Who is taking care of the parks? Who is ensuring our campers are safe and who is ensuring that people are following the rules? At this point it appears no one is, and the campers don’t even know who to call. They called the Yellowknife Fire Department and nothing happened. What is the Minister doing? Because I know he was one of those guys who drove around in those park trucks. Let’s see what he remembers and let’s see what he’s going to do. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is true; I spent some years as a park officer in the North Slave region. A lot of my time was spent at Fred Henne Park during those years. If the Member has a specific incident that he wants to bring to our attention, I’d be more than happy to address that specific incident. We have had increased park officer presence at Fred Henne Park. I’m surprised to hear of the Member’s complaint. Like I said, we haven’t gotten a formal complaint from the Member. We don’t have specifics on who was involved, what time it was, what day it was and things like that that are very important for us to have an opportunity to look into it. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

All great answers, but not to the question I asked. Let’s focus in on who is working the grounds in the park. Who can they contact?

We have families going out there spending darn good money and we’re trying to encourage them to get out there and enjoy these treasures that we proclaim are important to us. But when people are rowdy next door – I’ve got an e-mail that’s after 1:30 – they have a full load of kids that are ages five and six years old, we have families trying to deal with these partiers next door and risking their own personal safety, but no one to call and no patrols.

So let’s find out who is on patrol. Is anyone on patrol? Is there anywhere that they can call for help? We can’t have good family people trying to deal with rowdy campers. I mean, we are just subjecting them to serious risk. Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

To the best of my knowledge, the gatehouse at Fred Henne Park is manned 24 hours a day. If there are issues in the park that campers feel unsafe or they feel something is going on that shouldn’t be happening, I would encourage them to get in touch with the gatehouse attendant who is in radio contact with park officers. Perhaps park officers aren’t in the park at the immediate moment, but they certainly could respond to any complaints in a timely way.

Again, I will get some further information from the Member. We will find out what time of day this was, what day it was, who was working and what the

circumstances were, and we’ll get a fulsome response for the Member. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, telling them to go to the gatehouse, leave their kids, whatever the case may be, is about the worst answer, well, I shouldn’t say it’s the worst. It’s the second worst answer. Nothing would have been the worst answer, obviously.

Do we have park officers out there doing their job to make sure the people we’re trying to encourage to enjoy park time with their families, do we have them on staff? Do we have them on duty? What a great opportunity to hire more summer students because, frankly, we have no one doing the job if they’re not out there. So, do we have park officers working in the evening to ensure those folks are safe?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I think the Member is taking a lot of liberties with the good, hardworking park officers that we have here in the Northwest Territories, specifically in the North Slave region. As I mentioned to him earlier, get us the specifics, let us look into it. Yes, there are park officers working in the parks, I don’t have the particulars of when this happened, but I will get an answer for the Member.

Just to throw out accusations without any detail, that’s not doing anybody any favours. Again, I did that job for seven years. It’s a hard job, and I want to thank all the park officers that we have out there keeping our parks safe. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m sorry, but the Minister talked about years of doing the job, but I remember him and Minister Abernethy driving around in a brown truck saying that the firewood was empty and they called somebody. I’m not sure how tough those guys really worked. If it was a blue truck – I’m colour blind, my wife says – it doesn’t matter. The fact is I want the Minister to guarantee today in this House, if he has got a little political courage on this one, he’ll guarantee that we’ll have park officers patrolling those parks in the evening and certainly making sure that contact information is available for folks who go out there, bring their families, rent park spaces, enjoy the park that we’re supposed to be trying to encourage them to do and yet we want to make sure at the same time that they’re safe.

So I want him to be very clear that if we don’t have them working 24 hours a day, we will get park officers, we’ll hire more summer students if need be. It’s about delivering a safe and happy environment. That’s what it’s about. Will he commit to that? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

We don’t have park officers working 24 hours a day, but what we do have is a concentration on the weekend when the

parks are the busiest, on Friday evening and Saturday evening. I know park officers work well into the wee hours of the morning. They stay longer. They work overtime if need be, especially on busy weekends.

Again, I encourage the Member to get me the particulars of the incident he’s talking about and we will get him an answer on that. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I wanted to pose a couple of questions to the Minister of ITI. My first question is: Will the Minister support the idea of establishing a moratorium on disallowing hydraulic fracturing in the NWT? Mahsi. Yes or no.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We inherited a system from the National Energy Board of Canada. We are moving forward with draft regulations of our own that take into consideration the views and needs of Northerners, specifically air quality, water quality and management, and disclosure. We are moving forward with that process. Thank you.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

I wanted to ask the Minister if he could update the House in terms of the process of developing the regulations. At what point would this House see the final end product of these regulations coming to this House for public input at some point? Mahsi.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

We’ve got some more community meetings to take place. We’ve got the process to try to wrap up. But given us some more time, we made an announcement last week that we are going to take until the end of August with the process. If we need further time, we’re going to take that time. We’re going to ensure we get that right. We’re going to talk to people. We’re going to try and get as much education out there on what we’re trying to do, where we’re trying to go. There’s going to be opportunity for Members through the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure. We’ll get their feedback. We’ll be back in front of them, I would suggest sometime in September. We have another sitting of the Legislative Assembly the last week of September, the first week of October. We’ll be back. We’re not going anywhere. We’re going to ensure that we get this right. Thank you.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Other jurisdictions in Canada have established a resolute position in terms of allowing a moratorium against hydraulic fracturing. What makes the NWT different, that we’re not going to

follow suit in establishing a moratorium for the NWT? Mahsi.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I guess you could flip that over and say there are jurisdictions in this country that do allow the process. Alberta, Saskatchewan, British Columbia, even the Yukon recently made a decision to allow fracking in the Yukon Territory, in a small portion of the territory.

We want to be a have territory. We want to have jobs. We want to have a diversified economy. We need jobs in regions that currently have high unemployment rates.

We can manage this resource. We’re in the risk-management business. Nothing happens without some risk, but you have to weigh the benefits with those risks, and we believe we can do that. We believe we can manage it. Thank you.