This is page numbers 725-762 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was program.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Glen Abernethy, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Blake, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Ms. Julie Green, Hon. Jackson Lafferty, Hon. Bob McLeod, Hon. Robert McLeod, Mr. McNeely, Hon. Alfred Moses, Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, Mr. O’Reilly, Hon. Wally Schumann, Hon. Louis Sebert, Mr. Simpson, Mr. Testart, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Vanthuyne

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

---Prayer

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Good morning colleagues. Honourable house leader.

Point of Order
Point of Order

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order under rule 24(k), use of abusive or insulting language of a nature likely to create disorder. I have waited until today to raise this point of order because I wanted to review Hansard.

Yesterday, during her Member's statement, Ms. Green said while speaking of members of the public service, and I quote from page six of the unedited Hansard from Thursday, June 16th, 2016, "... while we may not like to speak to it, these higher levels raise possibilities of malfeasance and corruption in this spending of public funds." On the same page, Mr. Speaker, Ms. Green also said, "... these elevated amounts have increased the possibility of kickbacks and preferment." Mr. Speaker, the Member has raised some serious issues in her statement that could create doubts about the efforts and behaviours, not just of Cabinet, but of hard-working public servants in the NWT business communities, in the minds of the public. Perception is reality, Mr. Speaker. Using such strong language to suggest it is a possibility could very easily contribute to the public perception that the activities that the Member suggests could happen are actually or at least likely taking place.

Corruption and malfeasance are serious issues, Mr. Speaker. We would take those very seriously as a government. The Financial Administration Act and Contract Regulations are law, and we expect our employees to follow them. In addition, our employees are bound by a Code of Ethics that they must agree to follow. Rules are set out in the Financial Administration Manual to guide staff in proper contracting procedures, and advice and support is available to them from the Department of Finance and Procurement Shared Services. All noncompetitive procurement transactions have to be carried out under these established rules. They must all be properly justified, appropriately authorized, and recorded in SAM, the corporate financial management system.

If the Member has information about specific cases where this might have occurred, I urge her to bring those forward to the appropriate authorities, not paint the public service and the business communities with the same broad brush. Mr. Speaker, the remarks from the MLA from Yellowknife Centre seem to suggest a deep mistrust of government and its employees that I don't believe are helpful in advancing the business of the Assembly or maintaining positive relationships in this House.

I believe the Member's remarks violate the established rules and practices of the Assembly. On this basis, Mr. Speaker, I respectfully suggest that Ms. Green be directed to withdraw her remarks and apologize to the House. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Point of Order
Point of Order

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. On point of order, I will allow a debate. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Point of Order
Point of Order

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this complaint is frivolous and vexatious. I have not impugned any motive to any person, business, or employee of the government. What I have said is that there is potential, with raised amounts of sole-source contracts, for improper conduct. The government has been very vigilant about the need to respond to assessing risk and to meeting that risk with extra vigilance. I am pointing out that this needs to be the case.

I have the greatest respect for the civil service. They are professionals who are doing their jobs to the best of their abilities. The government does and has a responsibility to guard against the loss of public property or funds. That is why, for example, we have segregation of signing authorities in the spending of public funds to ensure oversight and prevent problems. Major funds are involved in sole-source purchasing, $41.6 million, according to the last available report from two-and-a-half years ago. Under the new guidelines, sums as high as $100,000 could be spent sole-source.

It was not my intention, and nor did I say, that any individual is guilty of this action. I pointed out, with significant sums now authorized for expenditure under the elevated sole-source spending, that we must ensure sole-source spending is monitored closely. With elevated sums available, there is elevated risk. I know the government is paying close attention to the risk in its 2016-17 business plans, and that is as it should be. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Point of Order
Point of Order

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. On point of order. I will take the point of order on advisement. I will get back on the ruling within the next few days. Masi. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in education, our greatest successes are seeing the faces of students realizing that they have accomplished something remarkable. To see a student graduate with pride in their achievements, surrounded by their families, friends, and communities is one of the focuses of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, and a priority of this Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, we are working to ensure our students have the opportunities and resources to realize those accomplishments. We are striving to provide a responsive, sustainable, and meaningful education system for our students, starting from our earliest learners to our older students. We have developed a continuum of education strategies to address the needs of our learners. Right from the Start, the Early Childhood Development Strategy, focuses on pre-school needs, providing services, programs, and opportunities for families with children to have the best start in life. We incorporate principles of play-based development and physical and mental stimulation in all of these programs. This is the period where children are learning to think, solve problems, create relationships, and learn. This is the most critical time in a child's life, to lay the foundation for future success.

Once a child enters the school system, Junior and Senior Kindergarten are bridges between early learning principles and more formal education. Education renewal in the NWT is already underway, focusing on the JK to the grade 12 system. Students are learning differently now than they did even ten years ago, so we have to teach the way they learn.

Education Renewal is targeting the different needs of students and focusing on their strengths and competencies. Self-regulation, resiliency, teacher and student wellness, identity, and connections to culture and tradition are all woven throughout the strategy. This is a continual process of building on successes, introducing initiatives, and working with education boards and councils to determine what is working and what needs improvement.

Beyond JK to 12, the Skills 4 Success Strategy focuses on improving employment success for NWT residents by closing skill gaps for in-demand jobs and more effectively responding to employer, industry, and community needs. With the Northwest Territories Labour Market Forecast and Needs Assessment and the Labour Market Information Resource, we can help northern residents with the opportunities available in the next 15 years.

Mr. Speaker, in 2015, we had the highest secondary school graduation rates in ten years, at 67 per cent across the territory. We certainly still have work to do, but the incremental increases we are seeing are encouraging. As well, Aurora College celebrated 111 graduates this spring, with degrees, diplomas, and certificates from the Schools of Business and Leadership; Education; Health and Human Services; Arts and Sciences.

Mr. Speaker, education is critical to the success of our territory. We must work together to provide a system that helps all students, regardless of where they live, how they learn, and what struggles or barriers they may need to overcome. We have the responsibility to provide an innovative and responsive education system accessible to all kinds of learners, which will create limitless opportunities for northern youth. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Minister responsible for the Status of Women.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to provide an update on efforts to support gender equality in the Northwest Territories today. Equal opportunity for the development of the human potential of both women and men is a benefit to society as a whole and is the responsibility and concern of individuals, government, and non-government organizations. The Status of Women Council of the NWT, Native Women's Association of the NWT, Yellowknife Women's Society and the YWCA of Yellowknife have challenged us and other NWT politicians, policy makers, and individuals to take the short introduction to gender-based analysis plus, or GBA Plus, online training to show our commitment to inclusive and equitable policy and programming.

We have been challenged to take the training by Canada Day, July 1st. Those who have taken the training are encouraged to take a picture with their certificates and upload them to social media, tagging any or all of the women's groups. I have posted my certificate, and I encourage others to do so.

Gender-based analysis is an important tool for governments in advancing gender equality. The Government of the Northwest Territories has set the groundwork for GBA through the Equality of Women and Men in the NWT Policy but there is still a great deal of work to be done in this area. The Government of the Northwest Territories has made a commitment in its mandate to improve gender equity in appointments to territorial boards and agencies. Gender-based Analysis Plus is an analytical tool that we can use to look more carefully at the factors in that equity.

Mr. Speaker, in addition to this important initiative, I would like to provide a brief update on the 60thmeeting of the United Nations' Commission on the Status of Women in New York City. The Member for Yellowknife Centre and I attended as part of the national delegation led by Canada's Minister responsible for the Status of Women, the Honourable Patty Hadju. The delegation included provincial and territorial Ministers, as well as representatives from non-governmental organizations.

The meetings were an opportunity to attend sessions on women in politics, gendered wage gaps, empowerment of Indigenous women, addressing domestic violence in the workplace, and violence prevention. I also had the privilege of participating in two bilateral meetings at the invitation of Canada, New Zealand, and Sweden. New Zealand has faced similar challenges with violence against Aboriginal women and girls as well as family violence. In New Zealand, half the violence in the country is family violence. Key components to their plan are cultural identity, community leadership, and the understanding that protection for the family is protection for all. There were some very interesting perspectives and experiences that were shared. I look forward to exploring these further as possible best practices for the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, violence against women and girls remains a serious issue in the Northwest Territories. Our government has been working with other governments and the National Aboriginal Organizations to focus the national attention on violence against Indigenous women and girls. Earlier this year, I was also pleased to lead the Northwest Territories' delegation to the second National Roundtable on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls in Winnipeg, where we had the opportunity to engage in the national discussion on how we can take action together to address the root causes of violence against Indigenous women and girls.

Efforts to address gender equality in the Northwest Territories need to be broad in scope, and involve many partners, such as the Gender-Based Analysis Plus initiative highlighted today. We need to learn and work with other governments, taking advantage of opportunities like the United Nations' meetings and the national roundtable. It is also key to make sure that research, planning, and coordination are well-guided at home.

Once again, I have challenged all MLAs to take the GBA Plus training by July 1st, and I look forward to seeing each Member's certificate on their Facebook pages. I also encourage each MLA to expand the challenge to all of their constituents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, June 21stis National Aboriginal Day. This day is an opportunity for all Northerners to celebrate the rich and diverse cultures of the Northwest Territories' Aboriginal people and the wealth of traditions, lifestyles, and languages that make up the fabric of the Northwest Territories. As the only jurisdiction in Canada to recognize this day as a statutory holiday we are leading the way for the rest of the country through our strong commitment to honour the Dene, Inuvialuit and Metis people.

Our experience shows that we are stronger and more successful when we work together as partners. I believe the foundation for working together with our Aboriginal government partners has been solidly established through the Government of the Northwest Territories' commitment to engage with Aboriginal governments in the spirit of respect, recognition and responsibility. Mr. Speaker, our partnership approach is unique in the country, and I am proud to have had the opportunity to show the rest of Canada how we do business in the Northwest Territories while serving as Chair of national forums such as the Aboriginal Affairs Working Group.

The Aboriginal Affairs Working Group has provided an important forum for provincial and territorial Ministers of Aboriginal Affairs and the leaders of the national Aboriginal organizations to engage in collaborative and respectful dialogue on issues affecting Aboriginal peoples across the country. I am pleased to report, Mr. Speaker, that the partnership provinces have been forging with Aboriginal leaders since 2009 has now expanded to include the federal government. Last week I was pleased to co-chair the first meeting of the Federal, Provincial, Territorial and Indigenous Forum with the Honourable Carolyn Bennett, Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs. This new forum replaces the Aboriginal Affairs Working Group and includes the Federal Government as a full partner in addressing the issues that are important to Indigenous people in Canada. During our meetings last week, Ministers and Leaders confirmed a new relationship in support of improving outcomes for Indigenous people and promoting reconciliation in Canada.

Mr. Speaker, it has been an honour to have had the opportunity to chair the Aboriginal Affairs Working Group over the past two years. I am proud that the Northwest Territories will hold the distinction of being the final chair of the Aboriginal Affairs Working Group during the time that we achieved the long-standing goal of having the federal government become a full partner with us. I believe that the Federal, Provincial, Territorial and Indigenous Forum will be instrumental in providing national leadership to ensure a strong future for Indigenous people across the country. I look forward to working collaboratively with my national colleagues on issues affecting Indigenous people both throughout Canada and here in the Northwest Territories.

It is critical that we recognize that the full participation of Indigenous people is not only key to the wellbeing of communities, it is also key to the wellbeing of our nation. There can be no stronger economic, social, and just society than one that lifts up all citizens to take their rightful place in our country. This is the path to reconciliation and the Government of the Northwest Territories remains committed to this path for the Northwest Territories and for Canada.

Mr. Speaker, on June 21st, I invite all Northerners and all Canadians to join us in recognizing the many ways in which Indigenous people have contributed to the success of our territory, our country, and the important role they will continue to play in our future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife North.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Premier for his eloquent words. Similarly, I will be speaking on the same. Mr. Speaker, next Tuesday we mark National Aboriginal Day in the NWT and across the country. Since the day was proclaimed by the Governor General 20 years ago, National Aboriginal Day has become an important celebration, a way for Canadians to honour the First Nations.

Over those 20 years, Aboriginal communities across Canada have gathered yearly in celebration, pride, and respect. Sadly, too often non-Aboriginal Canadians don't join in. Many don't recognize that this is a Canadian holiday, not an Aboriginal one. That must change.

Mr. Speaker, over those 20 years, some things have changed. Residential school victims received a prime ministerial apology. The Idle No More movement brought Aboriginal issues to national attention and garnered significant mainstream support. Most notable is the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. While its process was painful for everyone involved, the Commission's necessary work broke new ground. Its Calls to Action point the way for a healthier, more respectful future relationship between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Canadians.

I am proud that the government of the NWT moved quickly last year to respond to the TRC's Calls to Action. The TRC report outlined many areas where relations can be improved. The NWT made its intentions clear in response. However, there is work to be done.

Mr. Speaker, we can also take some pride in the NWT on what they have already done. Aboriginal languages are official languages here in the NWT. Our legislature sessions can be conducted in those languages. Our schools incorporate them. Our curriculum includes the residential school legacy, essential knowledge for us to bridge the gaps between us and build community.

Mr. Speaker, I am proud that the Northwest Territories leads the country by being the one jurisdiction in Canada where National Aboriginal Day is a full statutory holiday. I'm proud that I can work in this Assembly with my Aboriginal colleagues, with mutual respect and appreciation of our different heritage and cultures. The NWT leads the way for all Canadians to fully and respectfully partner with the Aboriginal nations in the Canada of the future. Mr. Speaker, the NWT should take the lead and formally campaign the federal government to finally declare National Aboriginal Day as a full national statutory holiday. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, small business is the life blood of a diverse and thriving community. How well our economy is doing should be measured by private sector growth and job creation outside of the public service. Growing our private sector will increase competition and productivity, and give Northerners more choice for goods, services, and employment. These are real opportunities that this government cannot afford to ignore.

Mr. Speaker, this government has many programs that assist small businesses, but it needs to do more. Only by changing the foundation of our economy can we move forward. One solution is very simple: the government must send a strong signal that the NWT is open for business. Today, I am asking the government to keep its promise to Northerners and cut the tax rate for small businesses and make the NWT the most tax competitive jurisdiction in Canada's North.

No one can deny that small businesses create jobs, and in this year alone I have seen that happening all over my home community here in Yellowknife. From the restaurants now offering world-class gourmet fare, a brewery that soon will be expanding production, and a farmer's market that contributes nearly $1 million per year to the local economy, it is an easy thing to take pride in seeing all these entrepreneurs succeeding. I want to ensure this success and help all businesses reach their full potential and keep investing locally.

Mr. Speaker, this government ought to listen to local advocates for business. Yesterday, I tabled a letter from the Yellowknife Chamber of Commerce supporting a tax cut for their members and for all businesses here in the NWT. I want to thank the Chamber for their advocacy and again ask that this government be clear on delivering on its promise to cut taxes for small businesses.

Economic uncertainty is rife throughout the NWT, Mr. Speaker, both due to commodity prices and because of this government's unpredictability in its relationship with the private sector. That's why we need to assure potential investors and entrepreneurs that we are open for business and this is the best Northern territory to invest in. Mr. Speaker, let's be smart on our tax policy and provide the fuel for sustainable economic growth. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Tomorrow afternoon, I will get the honour of attending the Thomas Simpson School graduation at the Papal site, weather permitting. If it is going to be bad weather, we are into the school.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the 17 graduates and graduands for reaching this major milestone in their lives and achieving a major goal in their lives.

The uniqueness of the Thomas Simpson School graduation is that it has students from the smaller communities from the Nahendeh riding as part of this celebration. These students come from their small communities and spend three years of their lives away from their homes to achieve this goal. This year, we have two students from Nahanni Butte, Nathan and Josh, and one student from Wrigley, Rochelle. I know they had to face extra challenges by coming to Fort Simpson, but they succeeded. Part of their success is thanks to the couples that look after the residents to ensure the out-of-town student feel at home and have the support they need to graduate. I would like to thank them for making a difference in these young people's lives. I know these student will look back on this with fond memories.

Mr. Speaker, like I said on June 8th, I have to thank all the teachers, including Ms. Nathalie Lavoie, who is retiring at the end of this school year, all the principals, support staff from the Deh Cho Divisional Education Council, and other school support staff who worked just as hard to get these 17 to this stage. As well, I need to recognize and thank the communities, people who volunteer their time to offer out-of-school activities, friends, and most importantly family who were there to encourage them along the way. As well, it's time for them to be very proud of their graduates' success.

Mr. Speaker, I'm proud to say that I know a majority of these young people. Their commitment and hard work has finally paid off, and tomorrow afternoon will certainly be one of the biggest moments in their lives. They have a lot more to achieve.

Today, I want to pass this message on to these young people: I wish them the best in whatever future endeavours they choose. Please remember, education is a lifetime journey and it does not stop tomorrow. As a big supporter of youth and education, I look forward to seeing what they do next with their lives. To those of younger youth, like the Bompas kindergarten and grade six students who had their graduation ceremony last Friday, take a look at this year's grads and realize, just like them, you have what it takes to succeed and you can be a grade 12 graduate, too, one day. Just keep working hard, keep taking the challenges head on, realize that mistakes are learning opportunity, and dream big.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate each and every graduate in the NWT, whether it is high school, college, or university, for the achievement they are celebrating this year. I applaud the parents, families, teachers, and communities for the support that they have shown their students. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Member's statement. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I was thrilled to join the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women in New York in March for an important conference. We attended the 60thAnnual Meeting of the Commission on the Status of Women at the United Nations, with women from around the world and across Canada. I was inspired by the work being done to prevent violence against women and children.

Mr. Speaker, today I want to talk about one document that particularly impressed me. It's from Australia. "Change the Story" is a framework for the primary prevention of violence against women and children, published last year by a national organization called Our Watch. This report was peer-reviewed and it draws on evidence-based best practices.

Our Watch takes as a starting point that violence against women and their children is not inevitable and it is preventable. It is a prevalent and serious human rights abuse. Their goal is an Australia where women are not only safe, but respected, valued, and treated as equals in both private and public life. This goal is ambitious but realistic, if endorsed by the whole country.

Our Watch is responding to an urgent need for collective action. One woman is murdered by a current or former partner each week, and Australian police deal with over 600 calls a day related to domestic violence. Aboriginal women experience violence at twice the rate of non-Indigenous women. The scope of violence against women resonated for me, given that the high levels of violence against women in the NWT prompted us to describe family and community violence as a crisis in our mandate.

Their response resonated, as well. "Primary prevention requires changing the social conditions, such as gender equality, that excuse, justify, or even promote violence against women and their children." Primary prevention activities include social media campaigns, workplace initiatives, and school programs that change fundamental values and practises.

Everyone has a role to play. With government leading the way, a broad-based movement for change can and will bring about social transformation. Think about the campaigns to wear seat belts or end drunk driving, and you get the idea of the kind of movement they are talking about. Australia is a world leader in primary prevention, and it's time for us to join them. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le Président

. My statement today is on the proposed Prairie Creek Mine, its precarious financial position, and the environmental liability at the site. This property was first discovered in 1928 and almost went into production in 1982 before silver prices crashed. The site is currently owned by the Canadian Zinc Corporation.

According to a 2016 Pre-Feasibility Study for Canadian Zinc, the company requires about $244 million to take the property into production. In its 2015 annual filing with the US Securities and Exchange Commission, the company noted that it has incurred losses of over $109 million since its inception. Last year, it lost over $8 million alone. In the latest available financial statements to December 31, 2015, the auditors stated there is "substantial doubt about Canadian Zinc Corporation's ability to continue as a going concern." Over the last five years, its stock has dropped from about 75 to 25 cents a share.

On the financial security side, the Minister of Lands tabled information in this House earlier in this sitting indicating that GNWT now holds financial security of about $2 million in cash, cheques, and a guaranteed investment certificate. There may be an additional $250,000 under a surface lease. Unfortunately, that lease limits the environmental liability of Canadian Zinc to a totally inadequate reclamation plan negotiated by the federal government whereby buildings do not have to be removed and the tailings pond can be simply abandoned as is. That lease expired at the end of 2013 and is currently in an over-hold tenancy status, with an annual payment of $5,680. It is not clear if GNWT now holds this lease, and what, if any, actions have been taken to renew the lease and ensure there is proper and adequate financial security to cover the current conditions of the site.

The calculation of the current environmental liability at the site is a complex one that is clouded by previous ownership of the site. Canadian Zinc itself claimed the environmental liability of the site was $9 million in 2014. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Mahsi, colleagues, and mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The federal government calculated the liability at over $19 million, should the site actually go into production. The Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board settled on over $17 million. Clearly the financial security currently held would not allow for a proper remediation of the Prairie Creek site, and leaves the taxpayers at risk. In these times of fiscal restraint, this is not sound public policy. I will have questions for the Minister of Lands later today. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Deh Cho.

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Escort support of pregnant women is limited. I have had several constituents come to Yellowknife to have their baby, and not one of them had their spouse there to help them. It's not because they did not want to; it's because we do not have the support in place for fathers during the delivery of their children.

Mr. Speaker, it is a very special moment in the lives of families when a woman delivers a baby. I think we can all agree that we try to make it as comfortable as we can as an experience, in that special moment when a child is born. Mr. Speaker, this government has identified that we need to grow our population. You know, if we have a low population, that indeed it also reflects our Territorial Formula Financing.

Mr. Speaker, it is only practical to grow our population, that we ensure measures are in place to support families so that programs and services reach parents and children through our Northern communities and they can grow into large, vibrant, and abundant families. Mr. Speaker, supporting families, including support for fathers so they can play a big role in the delivery of the children, is important and integral, and I'll have questions for the Minister later on. Mahsi.