This is page numbers 3989 - 4058 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was cannabis.

Topics

Question 316-18(3): Sahtu Regional Operations
Oral Questions

May 29th, 2018

Page 4011

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

We travel throughout the regions, and every time we go into a region we have had a senior management meeting with all of the senior management in the region. The last few times we have been in the Sahtu, there have been no outstanding issues that would indicate that the Sahtu would be better served with a Sahtu regional director over a rotating departmental regional superintendent to chair the senior management committee. For example, in front-line workers, there were an additional 41 positions, as the Member stated, over the last two years in Norman Wells for the new Sahtu Regional Health and Social Services Long-term Care Centre, and so I think hiring those front-line workers would be a more appropriate use of scarce resources and will better serve Sahtu residents.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Sahtu.

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thanks to the Premier for that response here. I will use a couple of examples. The probationary officers from the Sahtu have to report north to the Inuvik office, and the financial services personnel have got to report to Yellowknife. Those are just examples of outside decision-making authorities given to the destination of the region. Would the Premier consider providing some options to my office for further consideration of this reinstatement, if possible?

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

There are also four GSO positions in the Sahtu, and they are supervised and supported by the manager of regional operations, who works with the regional director who is located in Inuvik. Having said that, we are now into business planning for the 2018-2019 season or into the last year of the 18th Assembly, so, as part of the business-planning process, we always review our operations, so I will be pleased to have a look at this again. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Hay River North.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier I spoke about the plight of dialysis patients, not just from Hay River North or Hay River South but from across this territory, who must relocate to Yellowknife to receive the life-saving treatment that they need. In the South Slave, we have a beautiful dialysis centre in Hay River, a wonderful staff, and I hear nothing but good things coming from there. I spoke of the costs of housing people in Yellowknife, taking them away from their home, taking them away from their families, and the emotional and physical toll this can have on them. So, given all this, has the department looked at the business case for increasing staff at the Hay River Regional Health Centre in the dialysis unit so we can keep people in their homes? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Member for his question. Dialysis is an important service that is provided to residents of the Northwest Territories. In the Northwest Territories, we have the ability to provide dialysis in two communities. That is the hemodialysis. We also support peritoneal dialysis, which can be done at individuals' homes and individuals' communities.

To the Member's point, I hear the Member loud and clear. I agree with the Member. We need to do more to provide those services close to home. We would prefer not to have people coming from Hay River to Yellowknife when that service is provided in Hay River. Before we move forward with considering expanding the service in Hay River, we need to make sure that we are benefitting from the other opportunities that exist for us, such as the peritoneal dialysis, which can be done in the people's homes at home, and other options, whether it is a treatment in Hay River and then a treatment in Yellowknife offset by peritoneal dialysis. I am totally saying that wrong every time I say it, and I accept that.

There is a lot of work we have to go here. I hear the Member, and we are prepared to start that work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

I think it is a pretty easy decision, given the numbers that I quoted earlier. It is about $200 a night, from my understanding, to put someone up in a boarding home. That is about $73,000 a year. There are always a handful of people from Hay River and, I am sure, surrounding communities in Yellowknife. We can get them their own apartments in Yellowknife so that they at least have some privacy if they are there.

I have heard of people being in Vital Abel for years on end. That is not a very comfortable way for our elders to live. Has the government looked at different ways to house dialysis patients who have to come to Yellowknife for these long stretches of time?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

This is an area where there is currently a policy gap that we are actually working on. We have done some medical relocations as a result of things like dialysis, and we are certainly open to that on a case-by-case basis until we re-fix that policy.

Having said that, yes, we do have individuals stay at the Vital Abel House. If they are staying for extended periods of time, the option does exist for them to go out and get their own accommodations or stay with family or other things, at which point we would provide $68 a day, which equates to just over $2,000 a month that eligible residents of the Northwest Territories can utilize. If we have a patient from Hay River who is coming up for an extended period of time, they simply have to have a discussion with us about not staying at the Vital Abel, collecting their $68 a month, and finding accommodations which are more appropriate and suitable for them for long-term stays.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

That sounds like a heck of a deal for the government. They would save $4,000 a month that way. The problem is: these people go up for dialysis, and they are told, "You might be here for a year. You might be here for two months. We don't know. We have to wait until a spot opens up."

I will take a play from the Member for Nahendeh's playbook. I will ask the Minister again: will the Minister look at different ways of housing these dialysis patients in Yellowknife?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I will say it again: we are doing exactly that. We can make $68 a day, which works out to over $2,000 a month, which is a lot of money, for someone to rent out private accommodations and purchase food. We are looking at providing more options in Hay River. Hay River has indicated that we would like to explore other ways to provide dialysis, whether that is through some dialysis in Yellowknife and some dialysis in Hay River so people can be closer to home, offset by the peritoneal dialysis where appropriate.

Mr. Speaker, I hear the Member. I get what the Member is saying. We are working on this, and we are going to find some solutions. The Member is insistent on referencing the $73,000, which is his calculation, but the Member does know that, in this House, money is allocated from particular sources. In this particular case, those dollars are coming out of medical travel. If we want to put new positions in Hay River and expand the service, we have to go through a business planning process, build the business case, which means we have to demonstrate that we have explored all opportunities. I am simply saying that is what we are doing in Hay River. When we find a solution, we will make the investment where appropriate.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Hay River North.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I failed to mention in my last question that it is hard for someone to sign a lease for a year if they are told they are going to be there for maybe a year, maybe a couple months. That is part of the issue. I appreciate what the Minister is saying. I look forward to moving some money around so we can get this issue dealt with.

I have heard in the past that there have been situations where a patient might stay a couple of weeks in Hay River and receive dialysis and then a couple of weeks up in Yellowknife. There is an alternating schedule so people at least get to see their friends and family every once in a while. Are there any situations like that that the Minister has contemplated moving forward? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

We are open to any scenario, any options that exist to ensure that our residents are getting the best care they can as close to home as possible. Every situation is different. Every individual is unique. There are individuals who are on dialysis who are receiving a different degree of treatment than others. In some cases, providing treatment in Hay River and then in Yellowknife and then somewhere else may or may not be appropriate. In short, we are always looking for options. Every case is unique. There is no one policy that is going to fit all for all patients. We need to be open to options. Mr. Speaker, we are. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier today I spoke of a constituent of mine who undertook a tremendous amount of grassroots advocacy for local options for addictions treatment in the Northwest Territories. I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services if he can speak to the aftercare programs that the government is currently operating and in the process of reviewing. He has spoken about it on the floor in the House before, if he can give this House an update. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I haven't reviewed Hansard, but I am pretty sure, if we go back, I indicated at that time that I don't think we are necessarily doing everything we can or even enough for aftercare. I travelled with members of the Social Envelope Committee to different treatment facilities around the Northwest Territories. We heard loud and clear that we need to do more.

To that end, we are currently working on an addictions recovery action plan. The committee has made a number of solid recommendations. I am going to be responding to those recommendations on June 1st. In short, we are agreeing with the recommendations and are happy to move forward with committee to find some ways to improve the services we are providing for aftercare throughout the Northwest Territories.

Currently, when somebody is coming back from a treatment facility, they are required to have an aftercare plan in their community, in their region, where possible. Clearly, there are gaps that we need to close. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you to the Minister for providing that update. I know there was a lot of work that has been undertaken by both the standing committee and the Minister. I would like to ask about another issue that was raised by my constituent, which is the availability of detox services in the Northwest Territories. Can the Minister speak to those programs?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

There are different types of detox. We do have a withdrawal management program. When it comes to a medical detox, we can provide those services today in different hospitals in the Northwest Territories. We provide medical detox in Stanton, and we provide medical detox within the hospital in Hay River.

The four facilities that we are contracted with for southern placement actually have access either on-site to medical and social detox, or they are contracted with another facility in their communities for social and medical detox. All of our facilities have it. We have medical detox here in the Northwest Territories.

When it comes to social detox, there are many different ways that this can be done. In some cases, it is working with Indigenous governments and taking advantage of on-the-land programs that exist that help people get away from their communities, get out on the land, have an opportunity to detach from the community setting and connect with the cultural setting.

There are many different ways that we can do both types of detox. This is an area that I think we need to also find better approaches to enhance what we are doing to be better at what we are doing. This will be included within the addictions recovery action plan.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

There are, of course, a lot of discussion around a bricks-and-mortar facility. I know that, at this time, that is not really in the cards. That is what we have heard loud and clear. There is good evidence to support that. We are looking at the former Stanton Hospital site. Are there going to be any additional detox or aftercare programs operated through that lease once the new hospital opens?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

In the new hospital, as in the current hospital and Hay River, we don't dedicate beds for detox, but we have beds available for detox. If somebody needs detox services, medical detox, we have the ability to facilitate that in our facilities. With Stanton, we are going to have additional beds, so that will become easier, not more difficult.

Having said that, there are also no plans to put any detox beds in the old Stanton building. The old Stanton building is completely spoken for when it comes to things like extended care, long-term care, TO/PT, other outpatient services, as well as the Frame Lake Clinic which is going to be in that building. Plus, we also need kitchens and whatnot to provide services to extended care and long-term care. So, no plans to put anything in the old hospital.

Having said that, we have been working with the Arctic Indigenous Wellness Foundation, who wants to put an Indigenous or Aboriginal wellness centre on that property. We are very supportive of this. We are working closely with them to find a way to make this a reality. They are intending to provide services to residents from the Northwest Territories that will help people be better prepared to take advantage of some of the addictions programs that we have here in the Northwest Territories. That's a great partnership. I look forward to continuing to make progress on that, and I look forward to seeing that constructed on the Stanton campus.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Obviously, third-party partners are key to successfully resolving these issues, especially working with Indigenous people, so I commend the Minister for bringing that forward.

I am mindful of an answer he gave to my honourable friend from Hay River North that you need a business case to support additional spending. Given that addictions treatment and these aftercare programs are gaps that have been identified and will require a significant amount of resources to plug those gaps, is the Minister going to bring forward a costed proposal or a business case that will see more financial resources dedicated to addictions treatment in the Northwest Territories within the next cycle of business planning? Thank you.