This is page numbers 3161 - 3198 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

Topics

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next, I have Mr. O'Reilly.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I would like to start off on the issue of the land rights negotiations. The Minister indicated that there is an additional $595,000 in this year's budget for it. That is likely a good thing, but this comes after two years of cuts within the department and its capacity to negotiate. It is good that we are trying to work towards that. I guess I'll have some questions about what that funding is really going to be used for.

The other thing I want to say about this is that there is a joint committee of Cabinet and Regular MLAs to talk about some of these issues, but it has never met twice. It didn't really have the kind of authority that the Premier committed to in his campaign speech to become the Premier. It doesn't provide any sort of oversight or real advice, as I understand it, in terms of those negotiations. We haven't seen much progress. There haven't been any completed agreements, and we are more than halfway through our term. I am very concerned about the lack of progress in this area. We need to set this as a much higher priority for this government.

I want to talk about government service officers. Regular MLAs on our side, we have tried to push, in the last two budgets, for some kind of a plan to complete the GSOs in all of our communities. Not all the small communities have GSOs yet. I don't believe there are any in the regional centres. There certainly aren't any in Yellowknife. There may be some opportunities for greater efficiencies, particularly in a place like Yellowknife where the federal government has sort of a one-stop shop. Perhaps we can be looking at partnering with them on that as well here in Yellowknife to get some efficiencies.

Without a plan, where is this going? It just seems that Cabinet throws a few dollars into this whenever it seems that it can afford it. I think we need a solid plan to know what the additional costs are to complete our network so we can improve our programs and services to our communities.

I have a place to find that, the money that the Minister wants to use to add extra capacity in the inter-governmental relations, as I termed it, the red alert office in Ottawa. That is where he can get that money. Let's talk a little bit about that office. It just sort of appears as a line item in the budget. There is not much detail in the business plan. Regular MLAs, including myself, have asked for a job description. We have asked for more details about what that position will actually do. The information we got back revolved largely around the red alert messaging that the Premier has talked about in this House, as well, about trying to overturn the offshore rights issuance moratorium.

I guess I had hoped to see much more of an emphasis on leveraging infrastructure funding for things like housing and renewable energy, rather than the large roads-to-resources projects that our government continues to submit. Maybe even an emphasis on the need to revise the territorial formula funding agreement so we can build more fiscal and economic sustainability here in the Northwest Territories, but that is not the information that we have got. I will have lots of questions for the Minister about that investment of money and whether it would be better spent on other initiatives.

There are some good things in here in terms of support for the friendship centres. I support that. The additional funding for the campaign schools to try to encourage women's participation in politics. Those are good initiatives. Ongoing funding for the Arctic Inspiration Prize; that is a good investment. Supporting the Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk highway plan through the Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation; that is good money spent as well, but there do not seem to be any rules around this funding. They all seem to be one-offs without any sort of policy framework. I think that just leaves the door open to anybody lining up at the Premier's office and asking for money, and I think we are starting to see that here.

I don't understand why the Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation has to go to the Premier's office to get money when those funds could and should be available as part of Infrastructure and ITI's regular planning for a major infrastructure project. That is not to say that their proposal isn't good, but that should be part of our regular project planning, not subject to one-offs with the Premier's office. We need to have a policy framework for decision-making around that sort of funding.

I want to talk a little bit about Nutrition North, which is one of the mandate commitments. I am not aware of really what our government is doing on Nutrition North. There was a federal task force that was set up to investigate Nutrition North and its future, and I am not aware of whether our government even participated in that and what our position is and what we are trying to do on Nutrition North. There have been ideas from this side of the House about making sure that local agricultural producers can access or use or be supported through Nutrition North, as well.

Net metering is another responsibility of the Executive. It is in the mandate as well to try to improve access to net metering and make sure that citizens who invest in renewable resources have a way to feed energy back into the grid and realize some benefits from their investment, but there is nothing that has been done by the Executive on this. There is nothing in the New Energy Strategy around net metering, and there is no direction on this. This issue has been raised in the House, not just by myself but by other MLAs, and I would like to see some real progress on this in the context of the energy strategy.

I guess one other thing here that I would like to -- Northern Residents Tax Deduction. That is in the mandate commitments that falls under the Executive, as well, although the Minister of Finance obviously has some responsibility here. We did make some progress on getting it improved. It needs to be indexed, and I don't know why we cannot work with the other Finance Ministers in the other jurisdictions that are Nunavut and Yukon and put a lot more pressure on the Minister responsible for the Canada Revenue Agency to get this indexed.

Lastly, the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People. There is some progress being made on implementation of this at the federal level. There is a private Member's bill that is going to come forward that is going to require a more systematic approach to federal legislations and policy, and I think that the ruling party has indicated they are prepared to support that initiative. That is something that our government needs to look at in terms of our legislation and policies to make sure that they incorporate things like free, prior, and informed consent, which is part of the declaration itself.

Just checking my notes here, I think those are the main things that I wanted to cover. Sorry, lack of progress on ombudsman legislation. I am not sure where that stands at. This is a commitment in the mandate again, and here we are more than two years into our mandate, and it still has not come forward. I am concerned about the progress on that initiative as well. Thanks, Mr. Chair. That is all I have on this department for now.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. That's it, eh, Mr. O'Reilly? Next on my list, I have Mr. Testart.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Tough act to follow.

A lot of these new initiatives that the department is speaking to are good things: additional resources for land rights agreements; $250,000 to the friendship centres; $100,000 for the Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation; the Western Premiers Conference; campaign schools. I mean, these are all good things, but around what the standing committee deemed as extraordinary funding requests from the Tuktoyaktuk Community Corporation and the council of friendship centres, these are both issues that have been raised with Members of the Legislative Assembly as areas needing some additional investment. It is good to see them made, but my hesitancy with welcoming them too much is the lack of a clear policy framework around these.

During the course of the business plan review, at least as it relates to the friendship centre request, there is an existing fund called the NGO Stabilization Fund, which currently resides with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs but previously was with this department, and that is exactly its purpose, to stabilize the operational funding of NGOs that are experiencing those kinds of shortfalls and allowing them to continue to provide services to Northerners. Friendship centres do amazing things.

The committee has been recommending that this NGO Stablization Fund return to Executive for this exact reason, and one of the solutions to these extraordinary funding requests might be to do it this way. Unfortunately, the department has not agreed with that recommendation, and I cannot imagine why. I mean, it is good to support northern organizations and to provide this level of funding, but we need to ensure that it meets the rigour of public scrutiny, and just passing out cash, even if it's a good cause, there needs to be some policy guidelines around it, because there are a lot of good causes out there, not just these two.

As for GSOs, I think everyone here will speak to it. One of the most significant areas of this department's mandate is providing GSOs. From all of the Regular Members, it is very clear that there is a lack of front line services available to the people of the Northwest Territories. MLAs are handling a lot of requests from constituents on how to access government services. Those requests go straight to the Ministers' offices, and this could be done a lot more expeditiously if there were front line service officers in every community, including regional centres and including the capital.

Standing committees have repeatedly made suggestions and recommendations that this program be expanded and further that a funding relationship be entered into or explored with Service Canada so we can share resources when applicable. I know the department has been piloting that approach to provide federal services through GSOs, but we have a huge Service Canada centre here in Yellowknife, and I don't see why we can't convert that. Mr. Chair, if you speak French, of course, you can receive that here in the capital. You can go and get one-stop-shop for government services, but only in French, and I think that is a disservice to our other official language communities. This is a crucial service. People should have a one-stop-shop to go when they need assistance from government.

As to this deputy secretary position in Ottawa, I think staff to ensure we can achieve our strategies, goals, and public policy objectives is appropriate. I just wonder if, at a time with extremely diminished revenues and mounting expenditures and a need for enhanced public services, if it is really the time to roll out this position in Ottawa. We do have a seat at the table through our federal-territorial-provincial relations. Every department participates in those round-table discussions. Unfortunately, when the standing committee conducted its review and has been communicating with the department since, we have not had much clarity on what this position will do and exactly the parameters around it. I think we really need to consider carefully if we are going to establish a $387,000 position in Ottawa when there, again, are a number of important positions that we need here in the Northwest Territories.

My colleague the honourable Member from Frame Lake spoke of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. This is an international declaration that this Assembly has supported in the past. Canada, as a government and a parliament, is moving towards full support and implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Committee was concerned at the time of the business plans that, if we move in a similar direction, which I think we all agree is important, we do not know the full consequences of doing that.

To ask the department to develop a policy lens for Indigenous rights that it could apply to all public policy undertakings and ensure that all departments are being consistent in their approach to Indigenous rights in Canada and through the lens of the UN declaration, unfortunately, we do not have a firm commitment other than they will keep an eye on it. There are a lot of things going on, and I know we have limited resources, but this one seems like an obvious one. I think events today, the public rally that was held outside, just again underscore how important it is that we make reconciliation a priority for this government and we ensure that our public policies and those who implement those policies fully recognize what reconciliation means from a public government. We have a long way to go. Every government in Canada does. We have made significant progress, but we need to go further. These kinds of steps, like enshrining the UN declaration in our public policy documents in every sense of our government, would make a big difference. It is unfortunate that we do not have a stronger commitment to move on this. I think we need to consider that moving forward as not just an area that we need to keep an eye on, but an area that we need to be the leaders on.

There are a number of other issues around the red alert, around the future sustainability of our fiscal framework, in the light of increasing costs, pressures, and a mounting infrastructure deficit, and now federal initiatives towards putting a price on carbon and the ongoing effects of climate change. I do think we need to take a stronger and more proactive approach in addressing these significant concerns with Ottawa, who control our constitution, more or less, Mr. Chair, and I think those need to be the core of this department's work as it moves forward.

Also, we need to put that renewed focus on self-government and how self-government is going to work. My colleague the honourable Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh spoke to this as well, that we need to have more than just agreements on the table, but real plans to implement those agreements within a realistic timeline and that we have the resources from all levels of government in order to finalize them and, finally, that we articulate a very clear picture of how the Northwest Territories is going to operate after self-government is implemented across the board. If the territory is going to have all these different orders of government, constitutionally protected orders of government, this department needs to have a clear road map for what that looks like and how it is going to work. Quite frankly, I cannot understand at this point how we will be able to maintain an equity of service with different orders of government and different capacities in those orders of government.

Again, we owe it to the purpose and principles of reconciliation to clearly articulate that in a realistic and honest fashion so that everyone is on the same page moving forward, everyone can participate in their land rights, in their constitutional rights, and in their self-government rights. Unfortunately, we still do not see a lot of that vision in these documents. We still see a lack of funding towards services to people, which is the most important role for this government to play. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Testart. Further to the Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, general comments. Mr. Thompson.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to try to be brief on mine here. I have a number of comments that I would like to make.

I guess my first one: I would like to applaud the Executive for putting the $250,000 to the Northwest Territories and Nunavut Council of Friendship Centres. I think that is a good investment. What my big thing is, is I would like to see it annually. I think that this organization does some really good work, and we should be doing it annually. It should not be just a one-time offshoot, so I am hoping that the department can look at that. I think that is a good investment for the people of the Northwest Territories.

The $84,000 to the campaign schools, I think that is another good start, but, again, we should be making this contribution annually for this particular endeavour. I think we need to get more women participating in politics. I come from a family of seven children, and there are only two boys. There are five girls out there. The same with my family, I have got five daughters and two sons. I know who rules the roost in our house, but, again, it is getting women involved in politics.

The $50,000 for the Arctic Inspiration Prize is probably our best investment ever in this government. We have now seen, I think, three times we have won this award. The investment is huge. I think the government is getting our bang for our dollars, and I think we need to continue to do that. I think it is a good step.

The almost $600,000 for the additional finalization of resource and self-government, I think that is a good step. I would love to see it, to have these done. I have two, potentially more, issues in my riding, and I would love to see the DFN and the Acho Dene processes completed by the end of our term. In talking with Acho Dene, it is getting closer, and I have heard another talk about a year now. I mean, we did have a change in leadership there, but it means a positive step. With DFN, there are some challenges that they are seeing there, and we need to move forward on that.

I guess my big thing for me with this department is the GSOs. I honestly believe that is really an amazing program that you guys developed. It has a huge impact on the smaller communities, but, in conversations with Regular MLAs, they talk about the impact it would have on some of the larger centres, as well. We need to look at that. It is about trying to serve the people in the Northwest Territories, and I know the government does a good job at it, but here is an opportunity to make it a priority to get each community to have a GSO in it. I know, in Yellowknife, it is a bigger centre, but we need to give some people some services. I know we have departments here, but sometimes people don't know where to go, and we need to address that.

The position in Ottawa, I am still on the fence with that position, because I don't know what the job description is. I don't know what we are doing with that position. We had correspondence on it, and it has had some positive direction on it, but we need to know what we are actually doing with that position, what it entails, what the job description is, and how it is going to benefit the residents of the Northwest Territories. At the end of the day, that is where, to me, it comes down to, is why we are here is for the residents of the Northwest Territories. I believe all 19 of us are here for that reason, but, again, it is understanding how we are moving forward on certain things. Once we have a better understanding of that, then we can present that information to the residents. Again, we are ordinary MLAs. Once this goes down, we are part of this process, we are part of this government, and we need to be able to explain to our residents and our constituents what we are trying to do.

There are a number of other issues. Those are my concerns. Those are the ones that jump out at me. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Further general comments on this department? Seeing none, I will allow the Premier to respond if he wishes. He has 10 minutes. Premier McLeod, if you do wish to respond, I will indicate by holding up my sign when you have one minute left. Premier.

Bob McLeod

Bob McLeod Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will try to live within the limits of the 10 minutes. I guess, first and foremost on land and resources, with regards to questions with land-use planning, those responsibilities remain with the federal government. They were not devolved. We certainly agree with the Member that land-use planning funding should be provided for. We are certainly fully supporting that. We see land-use planning as the way of the future.

The South Slave is becoming very complicated because there is a number of land-claims negotiations. You have the Akaitcho. You have the NWT Metis Nation. You have the Denesuline from Manitoba. You have the Denesuline from Saskatchewan. I guess I should mention the North Slave Metis Alliance, as well, then, of course, the Dene Tha. There is significant overlap in that region, so it will be quite a difficult task, I guess I foresee, to come up with a land-use plan for an area that encompasses all those different Aboriginal governments.

Self-government, we have two self-government agreements negotiated in the Northwest Territories. The Tlicho negotiated self-government at the same time they negotiated their land and resources agreement. Deline has a community self-government agreement. I guess, about 30 years ago, the government tried to organize themselves so that capacity would be built as Aboriginal governments would take over programs and services. We also clarified successor rights. We also have the NEB so, when programs are taken over, employees can access resources.

We see the need for capacity building. We do have a current arrangement with the Gwich'in government. That is a tri-party agreement between the federal government, the Government of the Northwest Territories, and the Gwich'in, where we have people that can enter into this program. I think we have been at it for two years. I think it is working very well.

As far as implementation, it is up to the Aboriginal government to decide how quickly or how late they want to draw down programs and services. With the additional resources, we see us making a big push. The ministerial special representative reports they have recommended that the governments take a greater responsibility for facilitating agreements. We will endeavour to do so.

We have been very hesitant to put GSOs into Yellowknife or regional centres because people can walk down the street and get the services that they need. The GSOs in the small communities were put into place mainly because of the Aboriginal language requirements and to help seniors. If the committee is all united that Yellowknife should have a GSO, then I guess we would have to look at that. We have a pilot project with the federal government, so we know that works well.

Ottawa office, I think it is important to understand that the federal government is making a lot of significant changes, not only the fact that, as a Member pointed out, we are a creature of the Government of Canada. We are born as part of the NWT Act. The federal government can change the act whenever they want to and could change the whole structure of our government if they saw fit to do so. I don't think they will do that, but they are looking at how programs and services are delivered.

One of the big items is the federal vision for the North. They are starting to work on that. The federal government will lay out their vision for Arctic provinces and territories up until 2030. That is something that will be a very important piece of work for our government and will involve some significant involvement, primarily in Ottawa. If we are not there, the federal government will see fit to move on without us.

Also, with regards to still-unfinished business with devolution, I think the biggest area of change is 10 principles that were announced by the working group of federal Ministers, which we will look at. I guess the one principle that will have the most effect on us is the principle that talks about revisiting the fiscal arrangements for programs and services delivered to Aboriginal people or Indigenous Aboriginal people.

That is something that affects us significantly because one of the areas that the federal government is moving is distinction-based approach with three national Indigenous governments. They are talking about taking money that is being used for programs and services and giving it directly to Aboriginal governments. Our Aboriginal governments have been talking to the federal government for at least two years without our involvement, without our knowledge. It is only recently that we have all agreed to work together. We think it is all in our best interests if the Aboriginal governments get as much of the resources that they are entitled to, not only in Aboriginal housing, health, education, where those dollars could be transferred to Aboriginal governments.

It is important for us to be there. The federal minister, Minister Philpott, has invited us to the table now. We will be part of that process. Her responsibilities are primarily to Aboriginal people on reserves. We have to make our case so we don't get left out. Historically, the federal government puts a lot of money into reserves and they forget about us. We have to make sure we are there knocking on doors so that we are not left out of the picture.

Nutrition North, we talked about that before. It is a federal program. They are going to continue to do what they do. We have asked them to give us resources for Nutrition North in the Northwest Territories and we would run it. They have not seen fit to do that.

On the contributions, people approach us. We try to deal with them. The view is that there should be no one-offs. I guess that is something we can look at.

On net metering, all we do is provide administrative services to the Public Utilities Board. Personally, I think it would be better if the Public Utilities Board was housed in the department that is responsible for energy and public works.

Northern Resident Index, we looked at it before, before this federal government came into power, before they put an increase into the northern residents' deduction. We have to go talk to all of the provinces and territories that are eligible to claim this deduction, so we probably have to talk to the three territories. I think there are at least six other provinces that we would have to try to get that change.

UNDRIP, the federal government has said that it has to apply to the Constitution of Canada. We are waiting for where they are going from there. I guess the only other area is that there are a number of things with the Ombudsman, I think, that are pretty close to being done as I expect that it will come forward in the very near future. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Premier McLeod. We have finished general comments. We can now move into the detail contained in the tabled document. Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee defer further consideration of the estimates for the Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs at this time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. There is a motion to defer. The motion is being distributed. The motion is in order and non-debatable. All those in favour. All those opposed.

---Carried

The motion is carried. We will defer consideration of the detail, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. My apologies. Correction. That was a motion to defer the Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, and it passed, so we will defer consideration of the Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs. I want to thank the witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, you may escort the witnesses from the Chamber.

What is the wish of committee now? Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that the chair of the Committee of the Whole leave the chair to report progress. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. There is a motion to report progress. The motion is order and non-debatable. All those in favour. All those opposed.

---Carried

The motion is carried. I will rise and report progress.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

May I have the report, Member for Hay River North?

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 63-18(3), Main Estimates 2018-2019. I would like to report progress with two motions being adopted, and, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Do we have a seconder? Member for Yellowknife North. The motion is in order. All those in favour. All those opposed.

---Carried

The motion is carried. Masi. Item 23, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, item 24, the orders of the day.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Clerk Of The House (Mr. Mercer)

The orders of the day for Tuesday, February 13, 2018, at 1:30 p.m.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Reports to Standing of Special Committees

5. Returns to Oral Questions

6. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

7. Acknowledgements

8. Oral Questions

9. Written Questions

10. Returns to Written Questions

11. Replies to Commissioner's Opening Address

12. Replies to Budget Address (Day 4 of 7)

13. Petitions

14. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

15. Tabling of Documents

16. Notices of Motion

17. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

18. Motions

19. First Reading of Bills

20. Second Reading of Bills

21. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Minister's Statement 1-18(3), North Slave Correctional Complex Inmate Concerns

- Minister's Statement 19-18(3), Aurora College Foundational Review Process

- Tabled Document 63-18(3), Main Estimates 2018-2019

1. Report of Committee of the Whole

2. Third Reading of Bills

3. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Tuesday, February 13, 2018, at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 5:43 p.m.