This is page numbers 5255 - 5298 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing. View the webstream of the day's session.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Glen Abernethy, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Blake, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Ms. Julie Green, Hon. Jackson Lafferty, Hon. Bob McLeod, Hon. Robert McLeod, Mr. McNeely, Hon. Alfred Moses, Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, Mr. O'Reilly, Hon. Wally Schumann, Hon. Louis Sebert, Mr. Simpson, Mr. Testart, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Vanthuyne

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

---Prayer

Prayer
Prayer

Page 5255

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Good afternoon, colleagues. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Mr. Speaker, programs focused on both teacher and student wellness are foundational to education renewal. Mental wellness is essential for everyone involved in teaching and learning, and we have acted to address this need.

In response to the critical need for mental health supports for schools and in communities, the Departments of Education, Culture and Employment and Health and Social Services are partnering with education bodies and health and social services authorities to provide counselling services for children and youth within schools and in the community. We are using a four-year phased-in approach that began in 2018.

Counselling services will be provided by child and youth care counsellors who live in the community or by a travelling team of counsellors. These counsellors will be part of a larger continuum of mental health and wellness services for children and youth. Counsellors will have strong, integrated relationships with education staff and other community staff, including social workers, nurses, doctors, community counsellors, and youth centre staff.

Mr. Speaker, schools with fewer than 75 students will receive mental health counselling services from a travelling team, who will provide three separate week-long visits per community each year, as well as services via technology. Schools with 75 to 250 students will have a full-time counsellor; those with 251 to 500 students will have two full-time counsellors; and schools with more than 500 students will have three full-time counsellors.

For the 2018-2019 school year, the Deh Cho and Tlicho services are in place and running. All the counsellor positions except one have been filled. The travelling team visits from September to December have all been completed and the winter visits are scheduled. They will return for a third time in the spring.

The Sahtu and Beaufort Delta regions will be set up in the 2019-2020 school year, followed by the Yellowknife region in 2020-2021 and the South Slave Region in 2021-2022.

Mr. Speaker, teacher wellness is also an important focus of the department. Starling Minds, an online mental health support platform for teachers, was made available to all Northwest Territories teachers through a collaborative initiative between Education, Culture and Employment and the NWT Teachers' Association. Now in its third year, this support stemmed from a memorandum of understanding on mental health in the workplace in the most recent collective agreement with the Teachers' Association.

As well, following the implementation of the 2017-2018 three-year pilot of the Strengthening Teacher Instructional Practice, we have received positive feedback on the time that educators now have to plan, collaborate, and participate in professional development.

The Northwest Territories Teachers' Association surveyed its membership in November 2017 and assessed the impact the extra time provided to educators across the North. They received numerous comments and observations. The feedback from educators was incredibly positive. As an example, one educator said: "STIP changed my life. I normally have to write exams, mark exams, write report card comments, and contact parents outside of the school day. I have my life back and my wellness has improved dramatically. STIP is a game changer for wellness in the teaching profession."

Mr. Speaker, Child and Youth Care Counsellors, travelling mental health teams, access for teachers to the Starling Minds platform, and Strengthening Teacher Instructional Practice are innovative ways of improving educational outcomes by addressing issues of mental wellness in schools and communities across the NWT.

Research, investment, and piloting have also been important in getting these initiatives off the ground, but none of them could have been implemented without our partners in education. We can all be proud of the collaboration among Government of the Northwest Territories departments, education and health authorities, and the Northwest Territories Teachers' Association that has led to strong programs supporting the well-being and success of school children, youth, and teachers. All of our communities will reap the benefits of these programs for many years to come. Masi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Minister of Infrastructure.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, ensuring Northwest Territories highways are a safe place for all road users is a top priority for the Government of the Northwest Territories. The challenges we face in regard to road safety are constantly evolving, and these challenges must often be met with unique and innovative solutions. In addition to the work undertaken each year to maintain and upgrade the engineering component of our highways, the Department of Infrastructure is also committed to staying up to date on policy and legislative initiatives aimed at making our roads safer. This afternoon I would like to share with Members a few of the initiatives that the Department of Infrastructure is leading on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

With the legalization of recreational cannabis in Canada on October 17, 2018, drug impaired driving has become a top road safety concern for all jurisdictions. To get a better understanding of the issue of impaired driving among the general population of drivers in the Northwest Territories, the Department of Infrastructure conducted a drug and alcohol roadside survey in Yellowknife in September 2018.

The purpose of conducting this survey was to collect data that will allow us to compare the number of drivers under the influence of cannabis before legalization and after legalization. It will also serve as a guide as we develop more targeted drug impaired driving awareness campaigns. This data will be made available to the public later this year as part of the Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators' national report, which will provide a cross-jurisdictional comparison of drug impaired driving.

Mr. Speaker, on the same day that recreational cannabis use was legalized, the Government of the Northwest Territories implemented strict drug impaired driving laws under the Motor Vehicles Act. In order to send a clear message to our young and new drivers that impaired driving will not be tolerated in the Northwest Territories, we have implemented zero-tolerance laws and driver's licence suspensions for drugs and alcohol for drivers aged 21 and under and novice drivers. We have also extended this zero tolerance to drivers of certain commercial vehicles.

In addition, any driver found to be impaired by drugs who fails a standardized field sobriety test or an evaluation by a drug recognition expert will have their driver's licence suspended for a significant amount of time.

Mr. Speaker, distracted driving is another form of impaired driving that continues to challenge policymakers and enforcement officials. In addition to significant fines, the Northwest Territories was one of the first jurisdictions in Canada to suspend drivers for using a restricted electronic device while driving. However, the problem persists. You can see it for yourself while you're waiting at a red light, passing drivers on their cell phones. The Government of the Northwest Territories, RCMP, and other partners continue to monitor this issue to determine what additional steps must be taken to deter drivers from this preventable dangerous activity.

Mr. Speaker, as technology evolves, so does our ability to use it to our advantage. Another road safety initiative that the Department of Infrastructure is implementing includes a five-year plan for the enhancement of Intelligent Transportation Systems. Intelligent Transportation Systems is the use of communication, computer, and system technologies to make transportation safer, more efficient, and more sustainable.

$3.5 million has been allocated from existing funds over the next five years towards Intelligent Transportation Systems projects. This investment will support the installation of a network of traffic counters and web cameras, improve ferry tracking services, and increase the overall capacity of our road weather information system.

Residents will be able to make more informed travel decisions by providing near real-time information on road and weather conditions, including images and current weather available on Infrastructure's public website. The public will also have access to up-to-date statuses of ferry and ice crossings and imminent road closures due to incidences, poor weather, and wildfires. Industry will benefit from real-time information on weight restrictions on highways, winter roads, and ice crossings, and on restricted hours of operation on winter roads. The increased data will also allow the Government of the Northwest Territories to make better-informed decisions regarding operations and maintenance of our transportation infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, one final road safety initiative that I would like to highlight is part of a national dialogue. Mandatory entry-level training for commercial truck drivers is being considered across Canada as a measure to increase road safety for both commercial truck drivers and the public. By the spring of 2019, three provinces will have implemented this mandatory training.

In order to better understand the concerns and positions of the Northwest Territories' residents and businesses in regard to implementation in our jurisdiction, last month the Department of Infrastructure completed several community engagement sessions on the topic. The feedback received will help inform the government's decision as to whether mandatory training should be implemented here in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, new road safety challenges emerge across Canada every day. The Government of the Northwest Territories continues to work with our partners to make road safety a priority for the benefit of all users of the Northwest Territories highway system. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Gladue Reports
Members' Statements

Page 5256

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Our neighbours in Yukon are piloting a new approach to the overrepresentation of Indigenous people in jails. The Department of Justice there is funding a three-year pilot program to train people to write what are called Gladue reports. A Gladue report provides detailed information about the offender's background, including any time spent in residential schools or in the care of child welfare, family and community history, as well as struggles with mental health and addictions. The reports are named after a Supreme Court of Canada decision given 20 years ago, which asked judges to consider these issues when sentencing Indigenous offenders.

A Gladue report is described as one tool in a toolkit for judges to consider when sentencing the offender. The intention is to encourage judges to consider restorative approaches to sentencing, other than jail time. During the first year of Yukon's pilot program, Gladue writers have produced 37 reports for use in the courts.

Mr. Speaker, what is new here is that the Yukon has formalized production of the reports. Instead of someone doing them off the side of their desk, there is now a roster of trained staff available for the task. Further, the reports have been standardized so that the same kind of information is available to the courts.

Mr. Speaker, there are some important pieces to the Yukon pilot project. First, it is collaborative. It includes both the Yukon Legal Services Society and the Council of Yukon First Nations. Second, there has been a focus on training Indigenous people as report writers because of their innate understanding of the context of the accused. Third, the cost of the pilot project is $530,000 over three years. This is a reasonable investment, considering the cost of jailing offenders.

Mr. Speaker, there is no equivalent to the Gladue reports in the Northwest Territories. Pre-sentence reports are written by probation officers and focus on risk and risk management. In short, they serve a different purpose.

Mr. Speaker, we are facing the same overrepresentation of Indigenous people in the justice system as the Yukon is. While it is too early to tell the difference that the pilot program is making, it is providing essential information to the courts with which they can provide restorative justice. I will have questions for the Minister of Justice. Mahsi.

Gladue Reports
Members' Statements

Page 5256

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Kam Lake.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to speak on the GNWT's Business Incentive Program, otherwise known as BIP, and the NWT Manufactured Products Policy. These programs at their core are great concepts, keeping government money in the territory, stimulating well-paying local jobs and spinoff benefits into our economy. Yet, as the old saying goes, the devil is in the details.

Current guidelines to qualify to be placed on the NWT Manufactured Products List require that "the manufactured product must be a product specific and is an item that is regularly stocked or parts of a catalogue of items." I am, like several manufacturers in my riding of Kam Lake, confused as to why such specificity is required.

To further quote from the department's website, in order to benefit from the NWT Manufactured Products Policy, your product must be recognized as an approved NWT-manufactured product. This administrative front-heavy demand seems mundane on paper, but the real cost to some businesses is prohibitive. Product listing of all possible goods with unique dimensions seems to me that the GNWT is prioritizing paperwork over keeping jobs and money in the territory.

Northern manufacturing companies maintain a degree of flexibility. They must, to ensure that they can continue to adapt to ever-changing market conditions, but it seems that some companies are required to specify their products to a greater extent than others. Using BIP to buy a winch truck? No specificity required. Buying standard traffic signs? No specificity required. Signs for parks and interpretation? No specificity required. Buying handrails? Specificity required. Bear-proof garbage cans? You need dimensions and details, more specificity. Metal roofing, siding, flashing, and trim? No specificity. Mr. Speaker, all of the items I have just listed have the probability of being fully customized by northern manufactures to meet the requirements of the buyer, whomever they may be. I am at a loss as to why some companies seem to be required to submit painstaking details, down to the millimetre, that they could possibly modify while others seem to be merely left to vaguely describe the degree to which they can customize a product.

Mr. Speaker, we need to be empowering northern manufacturers and businesses to thrive and grow here in the NWT. Instead, they seem to be arbitrarily burdened with unnecessary and unevenly applied red tape. I will have questions for the Minister responsible for procurement later today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Nahendeh.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the federal programs that came about in response to the recommendations made through the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is the Indian Residential Schools Resolution Health Support Program.

Through this program, residential school survivors and their families are able to access mental health counselling as delivered by professionals, Health Canada-approved counsellors, at no cost. Of course, any of the approved counsellors are in Yellowknife and my constituents have to travel for these appointments, which Health Canada also pays for.

Where it becomes complicated, Mr. Speaker, is if you are a GNWT employee trying to access these needed services. Our leave provisions, while generous, do not really accommodate anyone trying to access health services that are being paid for by outside parties. In order to access more than one day of casual leave for a medical appointment, a GNWT employee has to apply for medical travel assistance for up to three days of casual leave. Otherwise, Mr. Speaker, the GNWT employee would have to use annual leave, lieu, or sick leave to attend appointments. For our employees who do not have these credits available, what recourse do we have to access this critical service?

It seems rather strange, Mr. Speaker, that, even though the GNWT is not responsible for any costs related to the travel, accommodations, per diem, or counsellor, our employee has to apply for and get approval for medical travel when this is not a medical-travel situation.

At the end of the day, Mr. Speaker, the process needs to be adjusted for easy access for employees and for the GNWT to administer. I will have questions for the Minister at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Sahtu.

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today it gives me great pleasure to acknowledge two constituents of mine from Deline who recently retired from the Deline Housing Association.

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Phebie Kenny started as a manager of the Deline Housing Association in 1986 and, after taking various periods away from the role to pursue her education and other career opportunities, returned to the housing association and retired after 30 years as a manager in January 2019. Mrs. Kenny and her family are long-time residents of Deline and are dedicated to serving their community. In addition to her hard work as the manager, Mrs. Kenny also worked for the Deline Got'ine Government and the Sahtu Secretariat. She has five children and two grandchildren.

Secondly, Mr. Speaker, I would like to acknowledge David Modeste, another long-term resident of Deline who also retired in January 2019. Mr. Modeste was a maintenance foreman and had been with the Deline Housing Association since 1985, a span of more than 33 years. Mr. Modeste is a respected and active member of his community, providing professional and spiritual guidance to the members, and he served on the board of the Lands Corporation. Mr. Modeste is a father of five children, grandfather to 13 grandchildren, and great-grandfather to twins recently born. Mr. Modeste is an avid hunter and fisherman who often shares his catch with elders of his community.

Mr. Speaker, both Mrs. Kenny and Mr. Modeste were valued assets to the housing association for their community. They will be greatly missed. They were both very hard-working individuals who always thought about the tenants first. They have both given excellent guidance and insight to their colleagues over the recent years and prior, while working for the betterment of the community. We all wish them well in their future endeavours. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Marsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to talk about the transboundary water protections in the NWT, specifically in regard to the large area encompassing the Mackenzie River watershed. The Mackenzie River watershed is one of the largest river basins in North America. It spans across six provinces and territories; contains tens of thousands of lakes, rivers, and deltas; and covers nearly 20 percent of our country. This watershed is the world's most pristine freshwater ecosystem.

Mr. Speaker, given the rich biodiversity inhabiting this region, it's paramount that the ecological integrity remains intact. Thankfully, that sentiment is mutual across all affected jurisdictions, as evidenced by the creation of the interjurisdictional transboundary water agreement between the governments of Canada, the NWT, Yukon, Alberta, BC, and Saskatchewan. Following inception of the master agreement, there was a creation of the Mackenzie River Basin Board, along with the various bilateral agreements signed between these six jurisdictions.

Admittedly, Mr. Speaker, these actions are indeed positive steps in the right direction. However, I believe they have not gone far enough to effectively safeguard this watershed. For example, despite better interjurisdictional coordination and collaboration from these agreements, the basin continues to experience pressures from a number of threats.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to highlight some functional weaknesses pertaining to the basin board. For example, due to a lack of baseline data in the Mackenzie River basin, there are limitations in the board's ability to track long-term changes in environmental conditions. Moreover, the board has been operating on a yearly budget of $280,000, which has not increased since 1997. This funding's limitation has resulted in delays in annual reports and original research being short-handed. The board has few or no procedures on dispute resolution.

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that this transboundary agreement is lacking and is in need of serious updates. I credit the GNWT above all other jurisdictions because of its willingness to partner with Indigenous governments in land management of the Mackenzie River basin. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

However, we must continue to remain vigilant of the health of the great Mackenzie River basin. Marsi cho, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Mackenzie Delta.

Caring for Elders in Communities
Members' Statements

Page 5257

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our elders in the Mackenzie Delta are growing old gracefully. There is a high number of elders in our region, many of whom still live in their own communities. I would like nothing more than to have our elders reside at home in their elderly age, be taken care of, and have homecare when needed.

Mr. Speaker, we all know that there is a waiting list at the Inuvik long-term care. I can name many, many of our people who have gone there and suffered loneliness. Being away from their own home takes a toll on life. We need to have our own elders' care facilities in our communities. We have our Aurora College, which graduated many nursing students as well as homecare.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure, once we have our community set up with elders' homecare facilities, staffing won't be a problem. Think about us as we get older into the elderly category. Wouldn't my colleagues want to stay in their own home or in their community in an elders' home where staff can take care of you if needed? We need dollars put aside to start planning for homes in each of our communities. This is one of the priorities for my riding.

Mr. Speaker, I do believe we have a high number of elders in the Mackenzie Delta. Numbers are high because they are still at home because they are smothered with love by their family, and more importantly, in familiar surroundings. We need long-term care facilities for our elders, and not only in our regional centres. There's nothing more than giving them the best care since they are the ones who paved the way for our territory. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I'll have questions later today.

Caring for Elders in Communities
Members' Statements

Page 5257

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi Members' statements. Member for Hay River North.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The NWT Business Development Corporation, an investment corporation known as BDIC, was established to support the economic objectives of the GNWT in a manner that benefits the people and the economy of the Northwest Territories by encouraging the creation and development of business enterprises, providing financial assistance, investing in businesses, and providing information to businesses. That's according to the legislation that establishes the corporation. Those are laudable goals. It's clear that this organization was intended to be a powerful tool to help invigorate and diversity our economy and support small businesses.

Well, Mr. Speaker, given that this Legislative Assembly and the GNWT have proclaimed that economic diversification is a priority, and given that we're in the midst of an economic downturn, now is the time that we would expect BDIC to shine. However, I've been hearing from a growing number of small businesses that, while the corporation is willing to lend money, that's where the support ends. There seems to be a lack of recognition by BDIC about the role they are supposed to play in our economy. Instead of supporting the economic objectives of the government and encouraging the creating and development of business, it seems that BDIC has devolved into just another traditional lender.

When companies that have accessed BDIC loans run into financial difficulties, which is becoming more common these days, we would expect BDIC to work with those companies to help weather the storm. Well, Mr. Speaker, I'm not talking about handing out free money here. I'm talking about BDIC using their statutory power to try to help keep businesses afloat. There are provisions in the act that allow them to do things like adjust the terms of a contract, defer payment to the principal, or adjust interest rates. Those provisions were put there for a reason. However, from what I hear, they are averse to using these options, and it almost seems like they would rather see companies put out of business than work with them.

Mr. Speaker, BDIC seems to have forgotten what the "D" in the name stands for. When the CEO appeared before standing committee, he touted the benefits of developmental lending, and I agree with him. He talked about how it can be used to help residents receive training, get people in the job market, and diversify the economy. However, when questioned on how BDIC practised developmental lending, he admitted that they didn't really do it.

Mr. Speaker, the last round of reviews of BDIC suggested that, based on the performance of the corporation, the government should consider dissolving it. You would think that that would spur BDIC to up its game and work to fulfill its mandate, but I haven't seen proof of that. It still has the potential to be a powerful tool, and I have questions for the Minister about what he is doing to realize that potential. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. A lot has taken place on the renewal of post-secondary education since last year. Following the May 2018 release of the Aurora College Foundational Review, the Minister released her response to the report in October. That response endorsed the review's recommendation to transform Aurora College into a polytechnic university.

The City of Yellowknife was also quick to pursue the opportunities from the creation of a polytechnic university. A University/Post-Secondary Advisory Committee was created. Many prominent Yellowknifers volunteered to serve on this committee, representing independent research organizations, Indigenous governments, and the general public. A post-secondary education feasibility study was commissioned and released in January. It contains many valuable insights, going far beyond the foundational review in examining detailed issues of polytechnic composition, services, partnerships, and resourcing.

The report sees opportunities to specialize in areas where the NWT can be an educational leader, including programming aligned with NWT labour market needs. An expanded Yellowknife campus is necessary, with strong emphasis on marketing to attract the student population necessary for a university, and develop a distinctive research faculty.

Overall, the report envisages a polytechnic university as a driver of economic diversification, business incubation, and as a stabilizing economic presence as customer and service provider. I am also pleased to note that the City of Yellowknife has reached out to the towns of Fort Smith and Inuvik and jointly issued a news release on January 11th calling on our government to establish a clear vision for post-secondary education, specifically a polytechnic university in the Northwest Territories.

I am long on record in supporting the creation of a knowledge economy, and a northern university. I support the City of Yellowknife's efforts to pursue these opportunities for creation of an international-calibre university here in the Northwest Territories. I will have questions for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment later today. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Member for Nunakput

Mangilaluk School Trip
Members' Statements

Page 5258

Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, I would like to recognize a high school teacher from Mangilaluk School in Tuktoyaktuk.

Mr. Speaker, Ms. Michelle Tomasino is a high school teacher in Tuktoyaktuk. She has taken 20 student to Europe, actually tomorrow. The 20 students from Mangilaluk School have raised $80,000 in two years, Mr. Speaker, so two years in the making of planning and fundraising as teenagers is actually quite a big step. They will be travelling to Frankfurt, Germany; to Paris, France; and they're also going to tour Monaco and Italy.

The students' fundraising in small communities is sometimes tough, as money gets recycled and sometimes you have to do what you can. The students sold raffle tickets. They held bake sales. They catered events in Tuktoyaktuk. They've become masters at recycling. They've hosted breakfasts at music festivals and jamborees, and they've even hosted events for diplomats who have travelled to Tuktoyaktuk from around the world, Mr. Speaker, and also hosted summits in the community.

Mr. Speaker, my message to the spring break coming up next week, something like this is the underlying message, that building young leaders in communities, and I really believe that, whether you're from a small community or a major centre where there's a lot of money, if you can dream, I guess this is just a sign that you can accomplish anything that you might set your mind to.

I'd just like to commend Michelle Tomasino and the students from Mangilaluk School for all their fundraising efforts, and I hope that they continue some more exciting trips in the coming year. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mangilaluk School Trip
Members' Statements

Page 5258

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Nahendeh.

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 5258

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to recognize Renata Bullock and Grace Berikoff attending our session here today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 5258

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 5258

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize a couple of Pages from Inuvik Twin Lakes. We've got Angelina Jerome, who has been here with us all week, as well as Joyce-Rowena Conley. I'd like to thank them and all the Pages in the Assembly for all the work they do. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 5258

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. If we missed anyone in the gallery, thanks for being here with us. It's always great to have an audience as part of our proceedings. Masi. Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. Member for Nahendeh.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I talked about in my Member's statement, concerns have been brought to my attention by employees of the GNWT regarding what type of leave they may access while travelling and attending their counselling sessions to the federally funded Indian Residential School Resolution Health Support Program. Can the Minister of Finance please provide or confirm what type of leave is available to GNWT employees when accessing this vital service? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Finance.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The GNWT, we fully support our employees in their efforts to access support services, so they can safely address the broad spectrum of mental wellness issues related to the impacts of residential school, but by doing so, we are bound by the lead provisions in our collective agreement. For example, for employees accessing counselling services in Yellowknife, they may access up to two hours of casual leave with pay to attend the counselling session. When accessing a recurring counselling session, there is a possibility of accessing up to a maximum of a one day of casual leave with pay. However, a maximum of one day may be insufficient for many employees, depending on the required travel time and schedule to and from their home community to Yellowknife. Where that is the case, we also have the ability to grant up to three days of leave with pay, which is not charged to any leave bank where an employee applies who qualifies for medical travel assistance. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

As I understand it, the federal government covers the cost associated with the counselling services, including the cost of travel, accommodations, and meals. They are costs normally covered by medical travel assistance, making this different than most other travel associated with medical appointments. I am concerned that some employees may end up unnecessarily using their annual leave time when having to go through this medical travel process, which seems unnecessary. Can the Minister please explain why most employees who require more than one day of leave go through the medical travel process?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I do take the Member's point and acknowledge that having to apply for medical leave assistance when the costs associated are covered by the federal government in order to access up to three days of leave of absence with pay may be an unnecessary burden to some employees. However, we do have to apply the terms of the collective agreement in providing access to this leave. I have asked my officials to reach out to the unions to discuss whether we could agree to a different process for employees attending counselling sessions through this federally funded program.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I would like to thank the Minister for that commitment. I very much hope a less cumbersome process can be arranged. Could I also receive a commitment that both the current and any new process be consistently applied across all the departments and regions?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Our officials will ensure that the process is clearly and consistently communicated across all the GNWT departments and all regions of the NWT.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Nahendeh.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I greatly appreciate the Minister's answers. I have one last question here, however. I am currently dealing with a number of situations where constituents have been advised that they still need to take sick leave to attend these appointments, including one day. I have been advised that employees approved access to federal residential school survivor programs and counselling services in Yellowknife, they may seek approval for sick leave, provided the person has a medical note. This seems to be contrary to what I am understanding the process to be. Will the Minister have his staff reach out to the regional staff to ensure the process we discuss here today is followed properly? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Here in the Northwest Territories, we fully understand and respect the effects that residential schools have had on a number of our people in the Northwest Territories, and we try to work with them. I can commit to the Member that we will reach out, we will work with people, and if the Member or Members have any specific cases where folks are having trouble navigating through the system, I would encourage them to bring that to my attention so we can deal with it in a fair and timely manner. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Hay River North.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You never know what will capture the nation's attention. Unfortunately, this week, it was outhouses. The questions I asked two days ago about the state of the GNWT-owned outhouses at the border have generated more comments on social media and more news articles than anything I have ever said in this House before. I have even had an interview request from a national news program, so because of that, it is time for round number two of questions.

From all the comments I have seen on social media, two things have become clear: first, I owe an apology to truckers. I don't blame truckers for the state of the bathroom. The problem is obviously a lack of maintenance during a spike in usage, but I see how people could have taken my statements that way, so I apologize.

Second, residents are not happy with this issue coming up year after year with no resolution, so I have some questions for the Minister of ITI. The first question is: was that state of that outhouse acceptable to the Minister? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I like how the Member is trying to spin his Facebook problems back on to the department, but the answer is no.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

I agree 100 percent. Everyone agrees that is not acceptable, so because the Minister has admitted it is not acceptable, can I get a guarantee from the Minister that this is the last winter where we are going to see toilet paper breaking the plane of that toilet during the winter months? Can I get a guarantee that we are never going to see this outhouse in this state of repair ever again?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

No, I can't guarantee that. As I said in the House the other day when the Member asked me these questions, this is a very challenging situation for us, and I might not even be the Minister of ITI after September 1st. Who knows who is going to be here trying to deal with this situation, but I said we are doing our winter strategy review and we are having to look at the situation and trying to come up with a solution to deal with this. As I said before, if the Members across the House want to get behind me and they ask for more money for this initiative, please do so.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

I recall that the Minister the other day said that the Member should get behind him and request some more money. The Minister knows full well that the Members on this side of the House don't control the money. It is the Cabinet that controls the money and Cabinet has to put forward money bills, so I am sure that we can get Members on this side of the House behind the Minister if he puts forward a supplementary appropriation to take care of this problem this winter. Will the Minister put forward a supplementary appropriation to take care of this problem once and for all?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I think the Member is getting a little ahead of himself here. As I have said, we are trying to find a solution to this. Money is not just going to clean up the border, I will tell you that. I told this House there is no power out there. That is the first big challenge around this whole issue in the middle of winter. We are looking for solutions and we will continue to work with that and, if Members want to work closely with me on this issue, I will be glad to take their input.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Hay River North.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand that this is a challenging issue. There is no power out there, but this isn't a new issue. People have gone to the bathroom since the beginning of time. It has been winter, you know, every year for us since the beginning of time, so there must be a solution out there. I am not even sure what else I can ask the Minister. He is unwilling to put money forward. He is unwilling to commit to anything. Will the Minister commit to this, then? Will he commit to coming back at the next sitting with a concrete plan to get this issue dealt with once and for all? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

As I have said, we are having a look at this. There are a number of options that are available on the table and, if the Member has any solution besides just throwing money at this, I would gladly ask him to come down to my office and give me some solutions that will work on this, and any Member on the other side of the House. This is not an easy problem to solve. Sure, we may kind of make a laugh and a joke about it in the House, but this is a situation, as the Member said, that has been going on for a long time. It is going to take some money and some ingenuity and some innovation to figure out how we are going to solve this problem, and we will continue to do that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member's statement earlier today I spoke about some of our procurement policies, in particular, the Manufactured Products Policy. I would like to ask the Minister responsible why some of these products are proved in general terms, like winch truck, which has no specifications for what is required in that definition, while others require exact specifications, such as steel garbage recycling containers, 52 inches by 54 inches by 71 inches, bear-proof top. These distinctions seem arbitrary and are applied inconsistently. At least, that is the perspective of my constituents, who are not procurement experts. I am hoping that someone who is an expert in procurement can answer some of those questions for my constituents and help us understand why some products have no requirements and others have very exacting requirements. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Infrastructure.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To be honest with you, I can't answer that exact question, because this policy goes all the way back to the 1990s when the manufacturing policy was brought forward. That is exactly why this government has decided to come up with a new strategy and sit down with the Manufacturers' Association to have the discussion around how we can make our strategy and how we can make this policy better. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

I am not getting into that policy, which is not before the House at this time, and the Minister has already told us that. Is that an area that they looked at when they were developing it? Was one of their policy objectives to correct this inconsistency between product classifications?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

There were a number of issues that were raised by the Northern Manufacturers' Association, and I believe that this is one of them that we are looking at and trying to figure out a way to address it.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you to the Minister. That is good news, and I look forward to reviewing that strategy. Looking to the manufactured products application form, it calls for "competitive pricing for the same product or products named above from a southern vendor." Why is it up to small businesses to do market research for the BIP bureau? Is this not something that the bureau could do themselves and then use that to inform the registration of these products? Can the Minister commit to at least changing that part of the application process?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

As I have said, we are looking at a number of things. The strategy is in front of committee, and if the Member would like to make a comment on that when committee makes their recommendations back to us, I strongly recommend that he have a strong look at that section, but we are looking at this complete strategy to try to figure out how to bring more economic opportunities to the manufacturers of the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is always hard to wait for another strategy, but this one is with committee, so I will do my due diligence on that side. I would like assurances from the Minister that he is going to implement the decisions in that strategy, the specific actions, before the end of this government, and that it is not put off for another government to put on the shelf somewhere. Will he implement the strategy within the life of this government? Thank you.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

We will be tabling this strategy before the end of this Assembly, and I strongly believe in what we are doing in working hand-in-hand with the northern manufacturers to make this a better document for them with more clarity and figure out a way, as I have said, to bring economic opportunities to the eleven manufacturers that we have in the Northwest Territories and hopefully grow that.

There are a number of meaningful ideas that have been put forward in this strategy to help them realize these opportunities. We have worked very closely with the Northern Manufacturers' Association and, as I said in the House the other day when we were talking about this, we had a couple of committee members who actually participated in that. This document is in front of committee right now, and I am sure that they are going to be making some strong recommendations based on what their feedback is as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Justice. As I said in my statement, the Yukon government is piloting a program to train people to write Gladue reports. The purpose of these reports is to inform the court of the Indigenous offender's background so that the judge can take this information into consideration for sentencing. My question is: has the Minister given any thought to funding a report-writing program like the one in the Yukon here in the NWT?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Justice.

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Section 718.2(e) of the criminal code requires courts in sentencing to consider all available sanctions other than imprisonment and additionally to pay particular attention to the circumstances of Aboriginal offenders.

Now, the Supreme Court, in the case of Gladue from about 20 years ago, directed sentencing judges to undertake the sentencing of Aboriginal offenders individually, but also to consider the unique circumstances by examining some factors, including the unique systemic or background factors, which may have played a part in bringing in the particular Aboriginal offender before the courts and the types of sentencing procedures and sanctions which may be appropriate because the offenders are of Aboriginal heritage and connection.

For the judge to get that information, generally case-specific information is required from counsel and also a pre-sentence report. In our jurisdiction, these reports are done by probation officers, and I am confident that they are getting the information that is needed before the courts. Thank you.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

I appreciate that the Minister has done his homework on this. However, it is my information that pre-sentence reports are written with a different focus than Gladue reports, and so my question, again, is whether the Minister has thought about funding a writing program like the one that they have in the Yukon to produce Gladue reports.

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

I know that in our jurisdiction there is a specific section of a pre-sentence report that refers to factors related to the accused as an Indigenous offender, including the legacy of residential schools and other contributing circumstances. That information, which is important, is actually a section within the pre-sentence report. The attention of the maker of the report, the probation officer, should be drawn to that section if it is applicable. Obviously, we are always looking for better ideas, and I understand that the project in the Yukon, which is a pilot project, has been going on for approximately one year. We are interested in progress. Certainly, we could look at ways of improving. We are always interested in that in the courts.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

I am delighted that the Minister is interested in better ideas. I think that there it is, right next door in the Yukon. Among the benefits of the Yukon program is the collaboration between the Council of Yukon First Nations, Legal Aid, and the government. Does he see a way that this kind of collaboration could be replicated in the Northwest Territories for the production of these Gladue reports?

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Obviously, the lawyers who appear before the courts and the probation officers are well aware of the issues and the necessity, in certain cases, of Gladue principles being brought before the courts. Again, we can always improve, and certainly I could be looking at ways in which our systems could be improved and would be looking at new and innovative manners of proceeding.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I am wondering if the government is interested in another of the benefits of the Yukon program, which is that it trains Indigenous people to be Gladue report writers. Could the Minister get behind that kind of an approach here in the NWT and not wait for the Yukon pilot to finish in two years in order to start it? Thank you.

Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

As I say, we are always interested in what is going on in other jurisdictions to see if we can improve our methods. Of course, as I mentioned earlier, the probation reports here are prepared by probation officers, many of whom are Aboriginal themselves. I don't know whether it's most; it could well be. Again, we are always looking at ways of improving, and we will be looking at the Yukon pilot project. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Sahtu.

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Now that Phebie and David are retired here, Mr. Speaker, using innovation and current community inventory and low-energy efficiency programs would result in improving our community market with renovated homes. My first question to the Minister: if we have units sitting idle in our communities, would the Minister support a pilot project to single out a unit in Fort Good Hope, Tulita, and Deline to develop the necessary applications to various sources, renovate, and showcase a low-cost home in these communities?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation definitely is committed to using energy efficiency when we are looking at building new homes or even with renovations that are being done in the communities. One of the big things that I have talked in this House, and I will say it again, is we are going to be looking at these community housing plans, and we are willing to sit down with the leadership. One initiative that we really need to get out there and let people know about is the community housing support initiative. That can have an impact on some of the statements that the Member has said. In terms of the pilot projects, I think we will have to sit down with leadership to see what we can do to address this. It is a concern not only in the communities that the Member has mentioned, but also communities across the Northwest Territories. I also just want to really quickly commend the Member on his Member's statement and for appreciating the work that our staff has done for the people of the Sahtu.

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thanks to the Minister for that reply. My next question is: would the Minister support directing his staff to set up a working group to undertake this pilot initiative, with me as a volunteer adviser to the group, to single out these units and develop a renovation plan?

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

We have set up working groups in some communities, which have been working well to address some of the housing issues. This is something that we can look at speaking with the leadership and the Member about to address some of the housing concerns in the Sahtu region. As I mentioned, we are going to be holding a Northern Housing Summit up in Inuvik, and these are the kinds of discussions that we want to have with our leadership, with our administration, with our stakeholders, and with people who we have invited to the table, so definitely. I know that, when we do have this Northern Housing Summit, perhaps we can look at having a sidebar conversation with some of the leadership in the Sahtu region on what the Member is asking.

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

The Minister must be a mind reader. My next question was to take advantage of the opportunity while the leadership is at the Inuvik summit to single out these three communities that we mentioned, have a sidebar meeting with the leadership. So would the Minister make an appointment to meet the leadership in these three identified communities to discuss a pilot?

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

We could even do better than that. We can get our staff to reach out to the leadership right now. I know we have had some of our staff go into the community of Deline. We have met with Fort Good Hope leadership, as well, in terms of their housing plans. They are doing a good job. We have seen what was on the news recently in Colville Lake, and we want to support that. We want to let the leadership and community members know about the programs and services that we do provide and that they can access. We will commit to that, and we will actually reach out to the leadership ahead of the summit and start those discussions right away.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Sahtu.

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thanks to the Minister for that reply. I have taken photographs already of the inventory. They are sitting idle, waiting for the assessment here to begin. I look forward to the summit engagements there, with the leadership in Inuvik. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

I will take that as a comment. Oral questions. Member for Mackenzie Delta.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In follow-up to my Member's statement, I have a few questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services. This issue is between many departments, and I think that it's time that we put all of our resources under one department. My constituents want to know why we can't have long-term care facilities in our smaller communities like we did in Aklavik at the old Joe Greenland Centre. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hear the Member's concerns, and I hear those concerns from his constituents. I have heard them across the Northwest Territories. It's been asked several times. The answer is still the same. When it comes to long-term care, we are looking at level 3, 4, 5 acuity, individuals who actually have some high, complex needs, and, when we build long-term care facilities, we need to build them in close proximity where a greater range of services are available, things like doctors and other professionals who can provide support to those high-need patients. When it comes to levels 1 and 2, those are the types of things that the Housing Corporation has already moved forward with in building independent living units for seniors across the Northwest Territories. We have worked really closely with the Housing Corporation on that, and they have actually created space in these new independent living units where we, Health and Social Services, can offer programming out of to make sure that elders and seniors throughout the community can benefit from those facilities, not just the individuals living there.

Once again, I hear the Member's frustration. I hear the Member's concerns from constituents across the territories, but, when it comes to levels 3 and 4, we must provide safe services. They have to have a certain level of care able to be provided, and that can be provided in regional centres, where there are doctors and a greater range of services, as opposed to smaller communities, where in fact we could be putting people at greater degrees of risk with those facilities.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Will the Minister work with the housing Minister to hire staff to work in our elders' homes as a start?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

We do have homecare workers throughout the Northwest Territories. In his riding, I believe we have three or four, I will confirm the numbers, who are providing supports to individuals who are staying in their communities and who want to age in place. Those home-support workers can go into those independent living units, where they exist, and I know there is one in Aklavik. I know that, hopefully soon, we will have one done in Fort McPherson, as well. We already are working with the Housing Corporation and, more importantly, we are working with the residents who are referred to these services to make sure that they get the services when they can.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

That's good news. We are also looking forward to the opening of the elders' home in Fort McPherson, but we need a commitment. Will the Minister cost share with both ECE and Housing to ensure that we have a level of care on a daily basis in our elders' homes?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I do hear the Member. We do not provide homecare just because an individual is old. All homecare needs to be referred based on needs of an individual, and there is a range of services that we can provide through our home support, which does include activities of daily living support as well as some food preparation. So there is a wide range of services, but they do need to be referred out, so I would not be prepared to commit to providing home-support workers to the independent living units because some of those individuals might be independent enough and not actually want or need those services. However, I am committed to working with the Member. I am committed to working with all Members. We are doing a homecare review right now. It will help us articulate the actual amount of resources we need to provide this service well in the Northwest Territories. We are exploring the paid community family caregivers. We are about to roll out some pilots on that. When those things are done, we will be in a really good place to develop a business case to seek additional resources to provide the support that I hear Members and residents across this territory saying they want. We need to make sure that we do it in an evidence-based, logical way.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. My questions are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment regarding the next steps in the development of an NWT polytechnic university. Any future development of the university must be carried out in close cooperation with stakeholders, particularly municipal governments. Can the Minister tell us what formal and informal mechanisms the department has established on this specific file to ensure close collaboration with municipal governments? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I try to learn from my mistakes, so I am not going to try to pronounce a big word, but we don't have a formal MOU with any of the cities. In fairness, what we have been saying all along is three strong communities, three strong campuses, and 21 strong community learning centres. We can't ensure that we have three strong communities if we don't work closely with community governments.

I have met twice with each of the three communities while we were doing the review. When we were doing the government response, I went into all three of the communities myself. I have met formally twice with each community government during those meetings. I have also met with Indigenous governments during those meetings, as well. My commitment to them has been that we need to work together. To make the polytechnic university a success, it cannot be made in isolation by the Government of the Northwest Territories. We need the community governments along with us to make this successful. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I want to thank the Minister for those remarks. I participated in one of the events that she held here in Yellowknife, so I will vouch for what she says. The Minister has probably by now had a chance to review the City of Yellowknife's University Feasibility and Benefits Study. Can the Minister say how this report will be taken into account in future work toward the establishment of a polytechnic university for the Northwest Territories?

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

In all honesty, as soon as the City of Yellowknife's University Feasibility and Benefits Study was produced, I wanted it right away. I wanted to see what it said so that I could be defended if I needed to. I was really, actually, quite happy to read it. It backed up a lot of what we had found in the review. Not only did it back it up, it actually expanded on some of the areas in justifying why we need to move into a polytechnic university. Yes, I have looked at the feasibility study. I know that the City of Yellowknife took that initiative. I am not telling other communities what to do, but it would be wonderful if the other communities actually did it, as well, because there are strengths that are unique to not only all three communities, but all regions within the Northwest Territories. Having that paper that identifies the strengths is a bonus for the City of Yellowknife, and we need to be cognitive as we move forward that we also look at the strengths and benefits that other communities have, as well.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I want to thank the Minister for that. She has probably opened the door for the towns of Fort Smith and Inuvik to come and knock on her door for some funding to help with their own work, but I think it is a great idea. In both the government's response to the Aurora College Foundational Review and the city's report and presentation to the standing committee, the need for a vision for post-secondary education was loud and clear. Can the Minister tell us how the visioning for post-secondary education renewal is being pursued, including a mandate for the new associate deputy minister, and how the stakeholders, including municipal governments, are going to be involved in setting that vision?

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Our visioning exercise is happening now. I just want to put that out to the whole public. I am supporting for every individual within the Northwest Territories to take the time out to answer the survey. It is available on our Education, Culture and Employment website. You can go into an Education, Culture and Employment service centre in your communities or a government service office, or you can access it online through our website at ECE. It is important that all voices be heard, so I am again urging everyone to do that.

Within that survey, there is a spot where people can also put their feedback in as an organization. Not only the municipalities, but also organizations, such as Chamber of Commerce might want to; the Chamber of Mines might want to; the arts community might want to. There might be a lot of organizations. We are hearing that, as well, but again, you have the opportunity. You can put it forward as an organization, or you can put it forward as an individual. I believe that, the more people who fill out that survey, the better it will come. How does that relate? Once that survey is done, all of that information will be assessed, looking at the strengths of where we should be focusing our post-secondary education in the Northwest Territories. From that work, once we develop our territory-wide vision statement, then the polytechnic university will take that piece and develop a visioning exercise for the polytechnic university itself.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that. Certainly it is exciting times here in the North for post-secondary education. I know that the Minister is also setting up a series of seven talks in various communities, and I want to commend her for that, because there are some really interesting topics. Unfortunately, we are stuck here for some of them, but I know that I have been working with her office to get some public broadcasting of that done, as well.

I want to get back this issue of how the Minister sees herself and the department working more formally with municipal governments. What kind of mechanisms has she started to think about in that regard, about how the department should work with municipal governments? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

As stated publicly, in this House, behind closed doors, I have constantly said throughout this that it is important that we work with the community governments to make this right. I do want to commend the Member for actually saying that we have made a lot of progress on our polytechnic university. We have been talking about this for 15, 20 years. I am really honoured, as the Minister, to be able to, as one older politician told me, "get 'er done." It is time that we move forward with this, and it is not only time that we move forward in isolation with the Government of the Northwest Territories; we need to work with the communities.

Communities have a stake. Students do not just stay on campus. They expand throughout all of the community when they are accessing training or services education. We need to work closely with them. We have a commitment to meet regularly. We sit on the City of Yellowknife's education committee; I am not sure what it is called. We have committed to including them when we develop the strategic plan, the implementation plan. All three communities will be involved in that work.

It is important, whether I am in this chair next Assembly or not, that the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment work very closely with all three communities to make sure that we get this right, so that the best services within the campus and in the communities as a whole are provided to students of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member's statement I talked about the Transboundary Water Agreements. I would like to ask the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources questions. My first question is: I know that the GNWT has signed bilateral agreements with all affected jurisdictions, with the exception of Saskatchewan. Can the Minister provide us with a timeline of when this bilateral agreement may be signed? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Environment and Natural Resources.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Negotiations towards the establishment of a bilateral water agreement currently are under way with Saskatchewan. Saskatchewan is conducting a legal review of the intention document, and that review is ongoing. Negotiations will continue once that review is complete. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Under the master agreement, environment Ministers from their respective jurisdictions are not obligated to present reports from the Mackenzie River Basin Board. My question is: would our Minister commit to providing this House regular updates as the work is done within the board?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

The work of the board is to provide a state of aquatic environment report every five years, and they get the funding to do that work. My understanding is that the next version of the report is coming out in 2020. I would have to follow up to see if there are yearly reports that are put out. I was on the board's website to see if there was an opportunity to find a yearly update, but I can look at that. The report is due in 2020.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Considering the master agreement has not received any funding increase since it was created in 1997, would the Minister commit to advocating for a funding increase?

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I believe that there is adequate funding for the Mackenzie River Basin Board, and I think Members would expect me to say nothing less. They have $280,000 in annual contributions from all parties, $40,000 from the jurisdictions, and $8,000 from Canada. If they feel that there is a need for more resources, I am sure they will approach the appropriate ministers in the jurisdictions to make a case for more funding. Again, that is another one that I would have to follow up on, and I have not seen any requests from board representatives for our department to increase the funding.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister if there are monitoring requirements. I am referring to maybe something a little technical, the monitoring requirements of the water within the Mackenzie River basin.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I believe we are always monitoring the quality of the water, especially with some of the projects that are going on in the southern jurisdictions. We have the Mackenzie data stream project, and I believe we have monitoring stations in almost 22 communities, as far as the work of the Northwest Territories. I would encourage Members to go on I believe there is a website, the Mackenzie data stream website. We have a lot of monitoring stations on the Mackenzie, down the valley. As they propose to do some work in the southern jurisdictions, I think the importance of the water monitoring on our part of the border is critically important so that we can see if there is any effect of some of the projects that they are doing in the southern jurisdiction. If we feel there is, then we need to raise those with the appropriate ministers in the southern jurisdictions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Hay River North.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier I spoke about some of the concerns I have been hearing regarding the Business Development and Investment Corporation. It seems like this corporation is not living up to its full potential and is not serving the residents of the Northwest Territories or the businesses of the Northwest Territories in the way that it was intended to. It performs bank-like lending functions, but, from what I hear, it does not do much else. I have heard that it's even hard to get anyone on the phone over there, even though reviews have noted that they have an exceptionally large staff for the scope of their work.

Mr. Speaker, according to section 4 of the BDIC Act, the Minister of ITI may establish written directives for the corporation, including directives relating to the economic objectives of the Government of the Northwest Territories. The priorities of this Assembly and the mandate of the GNWT have made clear that we prioritize economic diversification and workforce development, both areas that BDIC could assist in. I would like to ask the Minister: have there been any ministerial directives established by this government relating to these or any other issues pursuant to the BDIC Act? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No, there have not.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

We are three years in. Why not?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

The act actually has a requirement to have a review done every five years, and that process is under way right now. The draft is coming shortly to my desk, then will be coming to Cabinet and will be going back to committee.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

I took a look at the last two reports that were done, the last two reviews, and they were scathing. There were a lot of improvements that were needed, and it does not seem that many of those improvements have been implemented. Given that we have another report coming, what is the Minister going to do to make sure that the results of this report are implemented and that we are going to see improvements come out of this?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

There are probably three things that we are going to concentrate on, for sure, when we look at this review, and one of them is: how well did BDIC achieve its objectives in the last five years? That is one thing we are going to be very critical of. We have also done an environmental scan and had a look at other jurisdictions and what's going on. We are also looking seriously at the future challenges we have as a territory, the market conditions that are out there, as the economy is always changing, and considering what services and programs BDIC should have in place in the future. At the same time, we need to have another look at our legislation if changes need to be made based on the assessment that we are getting from them. I want to reassure Members of this House that I am very active on this file, and I want to have a serious look on how we are going to develop BDIC going into the future, to help the economic opportunities for the residents.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Member for Hay River North.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and that is good to hear. I just want to make sure that the committee gets their say, too, because we represent a lot of people and we talk about these issues with a lot of business owners throughout the territory. So I want to make sure that this review report comes to the committee and that the Minister solicits feedback, and that any sort of ministerial directives that might come out of this, that we also get some consultation with committee. Can I get that commitment?

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

I have worked very closely with committee on this. The first thing we did was share our terms of reference with them, in July of this year, on this. We have had the contractor reach out to all Members of this Assembly to interview them and get their input on this. Once we get this review back into my hands after Cabinet has it, I would certainly like to sit down with committee and have a discussion, so that we are all on the same page on this thing going forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Oral questions. Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to Commissioner's opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Member for Kam Lake.

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Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Government Operations has reviewed Bill 30, An Act to Amend the Human Rights Act, and that Bill 30 is now ready for consideration in Committee of the Whole as amended and reprinted. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Minister of Infrastructure.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled "Follow-up Letter for Oral Question 572-18(3), Safety Issues on the Dempster Highway." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Tabling of documents. Member for Kam Lake.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table the following three documents. The first is an article from The Conversation, "Why Insurers are Wrong About Canada's Genetic Non-Discrimination Law." The second is a report of the Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner of Canada titled "The Potential Economic Impact of a Ban on the Use of Genetic Information for Life and Health Insurance." The third document is a background paper from the Library of Parliament titled "Genetic Discrimination and Canadian Law." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Minister of Lands.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that, on Monday, March 11, 2019, I will move that Bill 46, Public Land Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

WHEREAS Tabled Document 237-18(3), 2018 Review of Members' Compensation and Benefits Report, has been tabled in this House;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the Honourable Member for Great Slave, that Tabled Document 237-18(3), 2018 Review of Members' Compensation and Benefits Report, be referred to Committee of the Whole for consideration. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is in order. The motion is non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion carried.

---Carried

Masi. Motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Minister of Finance.

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March 7th, 2019

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River South, that Bill 42, An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is in order. The motion is non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 42 has had its first reading. First reading of bills. Minister of Finance.

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Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife South, that Bill 43, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is in order. The motion is non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 43 has had its first reading. First reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 26, Statistics Act; Bill 31, Northwest Territories 911 Act; Committee Report 12-18(3), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 2018 Report of the Auditor General of Canada on Northwest Territories Child and Family Services; Committee Report 13-18(3), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 31: Northwest Territories 911 Act; Minister's Statement 131-18(3), Sessional Statement 44; Minister's Statement 151-18(3), New Federal Infrastructure Agreement; Minister's Statement 158-18(3), Developments in Early Childhood Programs and Services; and Tabled Document 322-18(3), Main Estimates, 2019-2020. By the authority given to me as Speaker by Motion 7-18(3), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider the business before the House, with Member Hay River North in the chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I will now call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Committee would like to consider Tabled Document 322-18(3), Main Estimates 2019-2020, with the NWT Housing Corporation and the Department of Lands. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. We will consider the documents, but first, a brief recess.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I will now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 322-18(3), Main Estimates 2019-2020, beginning with the NWT Housing Corporation, which is found on page 365 of the document. I will turn to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation for opening comments. Minister Moses.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Chair, I am pleased to present the 2019-2020 Main Estimates for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. Overall, the corporation's estimates propose an increase of $284,000 or 0.3 percent over the 2018-2019 Main Estimates.

The proposed estimates include forced growth of:

  • $515,000 for public housing water and sanitation services; and
  • $100,000 for Habitat for Humanity Northwest Territories, the first of three $100,000 annual contributions to assist Habitat for Humanity NWT with the delivery of their affordable housing program.

In 2019-2020, to assist with the strategic alignment of the government's emergency shelter programming, the responsibility for Northwest Territories emergency shelters will be transferred from the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, along with new initiative funding of $397,000 for additional support personnel for emergency overnight shelters.

With respect to support under the National Housing Strategy, the federal government is allocating $1.9 million to address territorial housing priorities, including affordability, repair, and renewal, and $531,000 to protect and regenerate the social housing sector. These amounts will be cost-matched by the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. The Northwest Territories will also receive $3.6 million under the National Housing Fund to the Northwest Territories housing issues. This amount does not require a cost-match.

These estimates support the priorities of the 18th Legislative Assembly and address the cost-of-living priority, especially through our commitment to implementing northern solutions for northern housing:

  • This includes investing in energy efficient solutions for both new construction and repairs.
  • We will ensure that land is available for new housing by disposing of a minimum of 50 surplus Northwest Territories Housing Corporation units per year.
  • We are continuing to work with other governments to support the housing needs of their staff, and in so doing, ensure that community service levels are maintained. An example of this is the development of 45 rental units for use by the RCMP.
  • Another priority is continuing our success under the Community Housing Support Initiative. In partnership with Indigenous and local governments, such as the Jean Marie River First Nation and the Salt River First Nation, this initiative has led to the development of more affordable housing in communities.
  • To ensure that the network of Government of the Northwest Territories homelessness supports continue to be effective, a homelessness strategic plan will be completed in 2019-2020.
  • We will also continue to address the rising demand for seniors' housing by planning for the construction of new seniors' complexes, including mixed-rent projects.
  • Finally, we will continue our successful engagement with the federal government under the National Housing Strategy, focusing in 2019-2020 on clarifying federal Indigenous housing support for the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Chair, that does conclude my opening remarks. I would be happy to answer Members' questions. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister Moses. I understand that you have witnesses to bring into the Chamber. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the House, and Minister, please take your seat at the witness table. Minister, would you please introduce your witnesses for the room.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On my left is our president and CEO of the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Tom Williams. On my right is Mr. Jim Martin, the vice president of finance and infrastructure services.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Committee, the corporation begins on page 365. The total is found on page 369, but, as always, we will defer consideration of the total until consideration of the activities. There are four activities. The first is community housing services, which can be found starting on page 372. Does committee have questions or comments for the witnesses? Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My questions in this area are pertaining to the public housing inventory. I am aware of the CMHC declining fund that exists, and this is causing the Housing Corporation to return to the Government of the Northwest Territories to get more funding as the various public housing units are paid off. They are assigned in groups of housing with a CMHC number. As they are paid off, CMHC quits providing the mortgage payment and the O and M to operate the home, thus the declining fund, which is scheduled to decline to nothing in, I guess, about 19 years from now. I am curious to know if the Housing Corporation has developed any strategy to divest themselves of public housing in all of the communities across the territory? That is my first question. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As Members know, and as I have mentioned in the House here, under our National Housing Strategy, we have about just over 1,300 units that we need to address, as a minimum, and as a government, we have looked at about 2,400 units that we address. I think that one of the big things here that we can be proud of is the bilateral agreement that we just did sign. O and M is a concern in terms of trying to add new stock, and I am going to leave questions around that in terms of our budget for O and M.

Going forward, we do have a lot of programs in place to address this. I think that. with the community housing plans that we have discussed, so that we can meet with leadership and talk with community members and NGOs on what their priorities are, we can start addressing this. You heard earlier today during question period that I did mention that we also have the Community Support Initiative that is going to help communities. Communities can apply for that program so that they can address it. There are a few things that we have in place, but really, it is going to take partnerships and working with communities so that we can help them in their needs in their communities. There are a lot of programs, but maybe for a little bit further detail, I will ask the president and CEO to speak to that through you, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Williams.

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Williams

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Certainly public housing stock in the territories, as the Minister said, we are funded to preserve up to 1,231 units. Right now we have 2,400 public housing units in our inventory that we are paying for ourselves as a government. To increase the stock on the ground, probably one of the best ways to do it is with the announcement of the $60-million co-investment fund. That is going to allow for private investment to assist us to put more houses on the ground. It is unfortunate that, unless we get more money from the federal government to increase the public housing stock, due to the O and M costs, as the Minister alluded to, we are unable to do it at this time.

We are looking at different ways as part of our strategy. How do we divert public housing and divest in public housing in the regions? We are working hard with our partners. Our direct funding with the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation allows acceleration of delivery in the ISR, where certainly the units are getting repaired faster. We are getting more units on the ground as replacement units and more units demolished over the past year. The Inuvialuit are helping us with a direct flow of money. Getting that extra money, it is incremental money to the system and it allows us to accelerate delivery, but we are looking forward to private investors to come to the plate. When we do the Northern Housing Summit up in Inuvik in April, we are looking to get the information out to private investors on how they could be part of the housing solution in the NWT. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When I refer to divesting public housing, I am essentially asking the Minister if he has developed a strategy to either sell the public housing at a market rate in the communities where there is a market or a quasi-market or give the houses away to the public housing tenants themselves in communities where there is no market.

Right now, as it stands, the public housing units are for sale, but it is not feasible in the small communities for individuals to go to the bank to buy public housing units. They are appraised higher than they are worth. We have units that are written off and sold on a private bid for $4,000 or $5,000, but the exact same unit standing next door could be worth $75,000. My question is: would the Housing Corporation develop a plan to divest themselves of public housing? That would cut the cost down, and it would also start to create a bit of a market.

The Housing Corporation has gotten into the market just a bit. They have introduced some market housing in all of the communities, essentially to house, let's say, nurses and teachers. Now, there is a beginning of a market, but they haven't rounded it off by trying to sell or divest themselves of public housing units. Sell where you can and sign the rest over for nothing to people who have been in public housing for years and years, or even new tenants; it really doesn't matter. The bottom line is that it is going to save a lot of money for the government if they were no longer running public housing units that they don't have to be running. Plus, it will create a bit of a market, and a bit of a market is important. Once we create a bit of a market, whether we refer to it as a quasi-market, or not, what will happen is individuals will then be able to sell and buy houses and be more mobile from community to community. So that was my question, if the Minister is planning to divest themselves, the Housing Corporation, of public housing units. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. The Member has about two minutes left on the clock. I am just noting that. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Okay, I will try to be really quick. I know he answered quite a bit, but obviously one of the couple of things that we are doing is the lease-to-own program. We want to make sure that people who are in public housing can have that opportunity to lease to own, and then that would help us create more public housing inventory. We are also looking at the new home ownership program. Every year, we are doing 50 disposable units so that, when we demolish units, we are able to create more. The Member makes a good point. We want to create a market, but at the same time we don't want to disrupt some of the private industry and the work that they are doing, but it is something that we are looking into and we are working with private investors.

In your case, Mr. Chair, we are looking at something in Hay River, where there is a big need. Then, like I said, the biggest thing is O and M for any new units, but we do have a plan. We are working with it and we just have to stay on top of it. We will keep committee and Members apprised as we move forward. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I am not really clearly finding this section here, and that is the needs survey. Maybe just a simple question to ask the Minister: when will we see the results of the next needs survey? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That needs survey will be available this summer and, going obviously into the transition and the new government, it is something that we will definitely take a look at. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister, based on the community housing development plans or community housing plans referred to the by the Housing Corporation, if there is any consideration to start working with the Indigenous governments to sign contribution agreements to have them take over some parts of the delivery of home ownership programs, not public housing. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister, the time has expired, but you may respond.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Yes. Thank you. At this moment, we don't, just to let the Member know, but that would be an interesting discussion when we have the Northern Housing Summit. It is going to be an opportunity for all leadership community members sitting in one room talking about the considerations and challenges that they are seeing, but we definitely will be looking into something like that. We have a great partnership with the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, and I think one thing that is coming out of this Northern Housing Summit is we are going to have one voice of hopefully the whole territory to send to Ottawa, because on top of that, we are still trying to get Indigenous housing funding for some of our self-governments and our Indigenous governments and we will continue to seek that, too.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Next, we have Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just need a clarification here in these main estimates there. It says that we have approximately 2,800 rental units in 33 communities, but now I am hearing you say it is 24, so which is correct? In the document here that we are looking at, it says 2,800: "It operates approximately 2,800 rental housing units in 33 communities." Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. The Member is referring to the first sentence on page 372. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. When I did answer questions on the 2,400 public housing units, the 2,800 rental housing units also include market and HELP units. Some communities, we will obviously provide market units and HELP units, but, specific to the former Member's questions, the reference to 2,400 was our public housing units. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. I appreciate the clarification. Can the Minister advise us how many market units and HELP units are presently part of your inventory? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Housing Corporation has 200 market units and approximately 200 HELP units. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Previously in meetings with the corporation we talked about a performance evaluation framework for the local housing authorities or organizations, so can the Minister elaborate on what the status of that is right now? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As Members know, we know through an audit practice every year, so through that audit, we also do the performance evaluation. It is an ongoing thing, and we support the work that the LHOs are doing in their communities, obviously, and working with our residents, so it is an ongoing thing. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. It is a warm day. There is some snow melting off the roof. Mr. Thompson.

---Laughter

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Previously, when we were talking to the corporation, we were asking: were they developing a performance evaluation framework for LHOs? My understanding is it was happening, so that is what I am trying to find out. What is the status of that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Williams.

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Williams

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, it is very critical to have a performance evaluation measurement in place for all LHOs. They are our agents for delivery, so we meet them with the LHO managers on an annual basis. Actually, our annual meeting for this year is next week, here in Yellowknife. All the LHO managers are coming in, and we will be talking about performance management. We will be talking about budgeting. We will be talking about programming. It is an annual training session that we do with LHO managers, and we do it with other staff, too. We have technical workshops. We have the tenant relation officer workshops on an annual basis, too, so it is building the local organizations' capacity is critical for us to be successful. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. When we were talking with the corporation previously, we were under the understanding that the LHOs were to develop their own business plans to be used within the corporation. What is the status of this work? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Williams.

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Williams

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On an annual basis, I know we asked each LHO to come up with a plan. It is not a business plan. It is what to do with their surplus, a surplus plan. What we want is a surplus reinvestment plan into housing, so each LHO with a surplus amount would sit down with our officials in the Housing Corporation and we would determine where it is best to meet the needs, and what are the needs in that particular district, in that particular community. Then they will put forward a reinvestment plan, a surplus reinvestment plan, that we would consider and approve, and it is reinvested back into the housing stock. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. With this reinvestment plan, is it looked at yearly or is it just quarterly? Do you have a mechanism? You have developed a plan, but have you developed a process so that you can ensure that they are following that plan? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we do look at it on a yearly basis, and we are working with our LHOs, but something that we really focus and are committed on is that, as we develop this plan, we do get with the community housing plans, as well, and that we get feedback from community membership and community leadership on how that is reinvested. With these community housing plans, they are going to be a game-changer in terms of what our priorities are in our communities and moving forward on that. It is done yearly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand the community plans, and that is very important, but I am looking at this reinvestment. If we are only doing it yearly, how do we know that they are actually fulfilling that commitment? Should it not be quarterly or biannually looked at? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We do receive the proposals from the LHOs on a yearly basis. With all of the programs and services that we do, if we asked them to do something quarterly, it would be taking away from the main impact that we want to make, and that is providing programs and services to our residents. It is done on a yearly basis. As our president and CEO has mentioned, there is going to be a meeting and a good discussion, and I am sure that all of our LHO chairs and members are listening to this, and it will be a discussion at that meeting, as well.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My problem is that, if we have a plan, we look at it at the year-end. We wait until the next year. That is a problem. To me, we need to do it at least biannually so that we know that we are on the right track and that they are fulfilling what they said they are going to do. We are reinvesting, and we are talking about a surplus. We are trying to make sure that this money is reinvested back into housing and making sure it is done properly. Will the Minister get the department to look at that and come back to committee to tell us if it is a feasible option? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There are reinvestment plans. We look at that, and it is up to $2 million to look at any needs that are given in the regions, and we also do look at exceptional proposals. We do work very closely with our LHOs and with our district offices. As all Members know, housing is a big concern here, and our Housing Corporation does have a strong communication with the LHOs and through our district offices, as well.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't think that I am going to get a commitment to look at it biannually, so that is disappointing. The Minister is talking about, and the president talked about, this meeting happening there. Is there training that occurs? What type of training? Is it just once a year, or is it ongoing yearly? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Williams.

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Williams

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our training is ongoing, but we also have these annual workshops. For example, next week is an annual LHO managers workshop. One of the items that we will be looking at is we have the Office of the Auditor General here, the GNWT auditor, to do a presentation on fraud. We always do try to build capacity of our managers and our agents who work for us on our behalf. There is always an educational component put in there, and we also talk about planning. It is a planning strategic exercise, as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further from Mr. Thompson. Next, Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to pick up where my colleague from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh left off. I wonder if there are people who are living in public housing who have incomes where they may be able to afford to pay for market housing if they live in a market housing community. I am just going to take the number arrived at yesterday by the Alternatives North living wage report. Of the three communities they surveyed, let's say, about $90,000 is the common threshold of income that someone would have to earn to pay their own way. Is the Minister able to give me any idea of how many people in public housing earned more than that amount of money? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have to get the specific details for the Member, but I am pretty sure that it is definitely under 10 percent. As I mentioned when we talked about the lease-to-own program, we do want to reward good behaviour of people who are in public housing to own their own homes. We are looking at other options moving forward and maybe through you, Mr. Chair, I will ask the president and CEO just to add a little bit more detail. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. The Member's question was a specific one about the number of people. I will give it to Mr. Williams here, but if he can just keep his answer brief and to the point. Thank you.

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Williams

Yes, we certainly could come up with the exact number, but as the Minister said, it is a small percentage of people who are paying the max rent, but these are people who we want to target. As long as they are good tenants, we will be targeting them for home ownership opportunities. I would say that that is one way of adding to the inventory without adding to the inventory, because we don't have to worry about O and M costs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Even if the number were 10 percent, that would be 240 units, which would be a considerable help for the availability of affordable housing. I'll say that, here in Yellowknife, where I am, that would be very helpful. Is there any thought of setting an upper limit that people can earn and still stay in public housing? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are going through a strategic renewal process right now. In terms of the numbers, we all know that Yellowknife, with the public housing waiting list, the need here is the most significant in probably the Northwest Territories. We will look at that, and we will have the strategic renewal information out in April. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that answer from the Minister. I am glad to hear that this option is on the table. It would free up units for lower-income families in Yellowknife. The uptake on buying houses from people who are clients of public housing has been low, and I think that that is primarily because the incomes are low. How is the Housing Corporation going to entice more people to buy? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Williams.

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Williams

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are doing a number of things. We are reviewing the Core Need Income Threshold. That is one method. We are looking at coming up with a new CNIT for April 1st, and that usually determines the rents that we charge.

As to getting more people interested in home ownership, it is one of our big priorities this year in this budget. We are rolling out the new home program, which is going to be a multigenerational home. It is kind of modelled after the old program. We are very encouraged there. In this budget, we have five units, one in each district, that we will be rolling out as a start. We are going to really promote the lease-to-own program for rewarding good behaviour for our tenants in public housing who are paying max rent, are looking after their home, and are good tenants. We want to reward good behaviour and move these people into the option to lease-to-own the unit that they are living in. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Just for confirmation, in government we always use acronyms, CNIT is Core Need Income Threshold, just so that all Members know when we are looking at that. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. I know that the people in Hansard appreciate that, as well. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

That takes a question off my list, so that's awesome. I appreciate that the Housing Corporation wants to reward people who are good tenants with the opportunity to own their own homes, but the whole premise of public housing is that people have low incomes, and so then, as a result, they have less money for operations and maintenance of a home, as well as paying a mortgage on it. I would like to know how the Housing Corporation is going to address that need, and what they would consider to be a successful number of people taking up this program in the next fiscal year. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and as I mentioned, we'll continue to promote these programs through our communications strategy in terms of our office doing work with the district offices and with the LHOs. Further to the Member's questions, sometimes Housing is really the only game in town, when they need to pay those rental costs. Like I said, we're the only game in town in some cases, and it's something we will be looking at. As I said, we're doing a strategic renewal right now. We'll have that information out in April. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to the Minister for that. I'm talking here about communities that have a market, such as Yellowknife, not communities which only have public housing. What does success look like for the Housing Corporation in terms of getting people to buy homes? How many homes do they hope to sell in the next fiscal year? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As you heard me speak earlier, one the programs that we're looking at, and hopefully will be successful, is the lease-to-own program, and we do have a target of 60 over three years. We also have the new home ownership program that we're hoping to have one in each of our five districts. You know, the more information that we can get out there, I think we can have more people applying, and also just changing attitudes in terms of public housing units. That's what we want to do. We want to change attitudes so people are a little bit more responsible. Our O and M costs are pretty high. If we can get people into home ownerships, then better for us, better for them. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm wondering if the Minister could tell us how the new housing bilateral agreement with Ottawa is reflected on this page. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Within the 2019-2020 mains, right now, we have built in $3.6 million under the new bilateral agreement with Canada. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Could the Minister please remind us how that money is going to be allocated? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The $3.6 million that's currently set up in the budget, we've allocated $1.5 million to modernization and improvement investments for the LHOs into our repairs for social housing stock. We've allocated $1 million into demolition and environmental remediation projects. We've allocated $900,000 into supporting the Community Housing Support Initiative investments. We've set aside $100,000 to top up the Apprenticeship Program to support additional apprentices at our LHO level. Finally, we put an additional $100,000 of that $3.6 million into supporting an additional policy analyst position a couple of years ago, and that continues to support us with our strategic renewal efforts. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green, your time has expired. Next, we have Mr. Blake.

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Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a couple of questions. I know the Minister had brought this issue up a couple of times, and the department has actually acted on it. The issue is landscaping around our housing units, mainly the driveways. A lot of these units, there's been absolutely no landscaping done since they actually built the units, which is sometimes 20, 30 years plus. Over time, there's been erosion to units, and it actually damages. Water and sewer trucks that have to deliver water, there are big pot holes, especially in communities like Aklavik, Fort McPherson, Tsiigehtchic. Especially in Aklavik, where we've had flooding over the years, it's a huge issue. I just want to know if there's funding available. I know, sometimes, LHOs aren't given the opportunity to use their budget for gravel that's needed to fill in these driveways. Would the Minister be willing to set aside some funds for that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we would be willing to look at that on a case-by-case basis, obviously. I know that throughout the -- well, I'm wearing my other hat, there. We do have nine communities that are on the flood watch, as well as shoreline erosion, and we would look at it on a case-by-case basis. If the Member knows of any situations, I'd encourage him to let us know so we can look at addressing that. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Blake.

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Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a big list here.

---Laughter

No, that's good news, Mr. Chair. There are a number of units that come to mind, but moving forward, I will be sure to work with the department and get the ones that need it the most done, hopefully this spring. Thank you for that.

The other thing was, just under electrical, I know it has gone down quite a bit. I'm sure it's because of some solar power in cases like the Joe Greenland Centre, and I'd like to thank the department because our elders had to use heating, ceramic heaters, and any way to warm up that unit. I'd like to thank them for covering that cost and reimbursing those elders. Let's hope that that's the end of that problem. Moving forward, I know in the last government we were looking at biomass, and I would like to know if the department is looking at hooking up some of these units, like elders' homes and other housing units? Maybe multiplexes with biomass? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To the previous question, on a case-by-case basis, it would be to any Member, any communities, so any Member who has concerns, please let us know. In terms of the biomass, I did answer some questions today in the House on the work that we are doing, the work that we are doing with our stakeholders and partners, and we also have the community support initiative. We really need to get out there and promote that program, and I think it's going to happen when we have that Northern Housing Summit so that our leaders, our residents, know what kind of programs they can access to help in that area. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Next, we have Mr. McNeely.

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Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My colleague from the Delta, his flu must be lifting here, so his spirits are lifting, as well. I'm quite satisfied with the program delivery, having participated in orchestrating a community engagement development plan back on October 5th in Deline, and I see the resource support and the staff support going towards dialogue on developing the community plan. It's all good if you amortize it over one mortgage, say 15, 20 years, but if we are relying on leadership and having experience, the lack of leadership, but the deed from the public demand. An example from the public demand was the article on CBC yesterday. Is there any way that we can overcome that gap and go directly to the needs of the individual who is going to undertake this mortgage? I throw out one suggestion. I want to take advantage of these opportunities that are in front of us similar to how the Power Corporation has taken advantage of the capital resources available from the federal level, which is good, but I would like to see it tickling down to the tenants.

Some communities throughout the territories were only accessible by the winter roads, so if we miss that road, it is another whole year. Some other communities can say, "Yes, okay, we missed a winter road, but our material is going to come on the barge," so there are options. Some don't have that secondary option. Is there any way that we can recruit a development officer to reside in the community over several days to help the individuals? I know we have our regional staff and I see them going on a winter road, going to the communities of the Sahtu, so they are doing their jobs, but they have other tasks at hand, as well. Are there any ways that we can hire additional staff to stay in the community to help the individual follow the guidelines of the program and how to access the program and how to do a material take-off to complete their home wishes? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That was a really good story on the young gentleman in Colville Lake. We do have programs for people who want to build their own homes. Obviously, we have to look at building codes, for one thing, and also tenants to provide some of their own funding to get the place up and running. Our district officers, who are technical and program staff, they are getting out to the communities. I know that, while they go through a couple of community tours, regional tours, that we did promote getting our district offices technical staff and program staff out to promote the programs, and this is going to be something that I am sure we will have discussions on with the LHO meeting, as well as the Northern Housing Summit. I am really praising this Northern Housing Summit only because it is going to be an opportunity for everybody to see the program, services, challenges, and barriers that we have and work on how can we address them together. Northern solutions for northern housing. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. McNeely.

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Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Are there any development funds available to hire a consultant to go to the communities? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I mentioned earlier, the community support initiative, I mean, working with leadership, they can look at applying for that type of spending. As I said earlier when the Member asked a question in the House, that is a program that we need to promote and get out there so communities know that they can apply on this and look at addressing some of their housing priorities, but there are some of their housing initiatives, as well. Under the CMHC funding, there is Seed funding to develop proposals. Like I said, Mr. Chair, all this information will be provided once we get to this Northern Housing Summit, and as I mentioned to the Member earlier that we would be more than willing to reach out. We have met with Deline. We have also met with Fort Good Hope staff, but this is something that we want to get out to everybody across the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Next, we have Mr. Nakimayak.

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Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a few questions. The Minister is talking about this housing summit. I would just like to express a little bit of concern. Over the last couple of years, we have had some high winds in my region and it blew off a couple of roofs. I am just wondering if, when we get to talk about this housing summit, maybe we need to look at the types of houses that have been constructed in the region, more for stability. As I mentioned earlier in this sitting, we talk about climate change in the summertime, but we don't really talk about it in the winter, and the durability of construction of government infrastructure. I think this is a good opportunity to grow on that and use examples of some of the partnerships that have been formed to help enhance that and enhance housing across the territory. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To those units that were affected, I know they were built by us and built to stand, but you can never predict when you can get 140-kilometre winds that are going to have an impact on, in some cases, our aging units, so moving forward, we need to address that. I know the Member asked questions in the House earlier this sitting, and as we move forward with our community housing plans and our relationship with the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, these things do need to be taken in consideration because I know, in the last couple of years, Paulatuk in particular, the coastal communities have really been seeing a drastic change in the weather. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will look to my president for more detail.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Williams.

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Williams

Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, the Member, he asked a question about the summit. I think this housing summit is long overdue. It is going to be an opportunity to share good information to all the parties, how to invest into housing. You know, we have to take advantage of this co-investment fund. It is 75 percent federal dollars. It would be remiss if we don't, and we have nine years to take advantage of that money, so, you know, that is an opportunity there.

We are trying to flesh out the agenda for this summit. We want to have a really good, professionally done program, designs for northern conditions. You know, we could learn from the Inuvialuit. Actually, the last six-plex they built was their own design, that NAPEC did, and they took into consideration traditional knowledge and other avenues. So, you know, we invited our Nunavut and Yukon sisters to come visit, as well, and they could share some of their experiences on design. So this summit is going to be a good one, and it is going to be an information-sharing one for everybody. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Nakimayak.

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Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that information. That is very well noted. When we look at housing, when we look at partnerships, or any, it could be on co-management. Look at the co-management we have with wildlife and environment and housing. It is probably one of the most key in all the regions of the Arctic. I think what we need to do or even maybe think about bringing to the table is that, you know, are our Indigenous governments willing to become landlords so that we can maximize the dollars, the contract services, the maintenance, and help Indigenous groups become more self-determining so that we can improve? I think it is going to take that. Otherwise, if it is just the government alone, then we are not going to succeed. It is going to be a one-sided game and everybody is going to lose. I think we need to really inform ourselves so that we can actually become more of a team, even though we have differences and there are some agreements with the federal government and with the Government of the Northwest Territories.

I think, you know, looking at apprenticeships, we have apprentices in a lot of the communities. In my hometown, there are a couple, and I am very proud of them, and they become housing maintainers. I think we need to look at possibly even having electrician apprentices and plumbing apprentices so they can actually help within the community and other services to break down costs. Anyway, my question is to the Minister and his team: are they going to look at that and put that on the table to make a plan, a long-term plan? It could be a 20- or 30- or 50-year plan to ensure that we are taking care of our people, as well, too. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I agree with everything the Member has mentioned. In terms of apprentices, definitely, we need to do that. On the other side, we are looking at working with homeowners through our LHOs and through our technical and maintenance staff to address some of the maintenance shortfalls that some of the contractors might not take in some of the communities. In terms of being landlords, we need to start those discussions, and I think those discussions will need to be started at this Northern Housing Summit. It's got to start at some point. You know, regardless of if any of our Indigenous governments take on public housing or get into those agreements with us, I will just let Members know that the NWT Housing Corporation will always be here to support housing for our residents, but we do need to make sure that we start those discussions. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Nakimayak.

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Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is all I have for right now. I appreciate the responses. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Round two of questions, starting with Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to follow up the last response I was given by Mr. Martin. I asked him for a breakdown of the $3.6 million that would be spent under the new housing bilateral agreement in the next fiscal year, and I understood part of his answer was that there would be an expenditure of $1.5 million on modernization and improvements. On page 373, the budget actually shows a decrease of $751,000 in spending, so maybe he can tell me why those numbers are not adding up. Are they not referring to the same thing? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we actually incorporated in that base budget adjustment in 2018-2019, and that was as part of that initial allocation under the bilateral agreement, for modernization and improvement. Now, subsequent to that, though, there have been other adjustments in the modernization and improvements area, and one of the larger adjustments there is a $400,000 reduction associated with the decline in gain on disposal of assets, and I will explain that. That is a revenue adjustment that we had to implement in our fiscal framework. Historically, if you look at the revenue schedule, we were targeting about $800,000 a year for gains on sales of assets. However, over the last few years, we have noticed that, the Housing Corporation, the assets that we are now dealing with are aged assets and we are no longer realizing these gains on sales in these situations. So we had to adjust the fiscal framework, and where we adjusted it was in the modernization and improvement category. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So what I am hearing, then, is that the $1.5 million from the bilateral agreement is not really $1.5 million; it's more like $750,000 once it's plugged into all of the other variables. Is that correct? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is correct. There are a number of ins and outs associated with this particular line item. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, did the Housing Corporation look at any other ways to try to make up that difference? It is a considerable sum of money, almost half of what is allocated for this year. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin. Okay, Ms. Green, could you please repeat your question for the witnesses? Thank you.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Sure, Mr. Chair. My observation is that, rather than having an additional $1.5 million available for modernization and improvements, there is actually $750,000 available. My question is: could the difference have been made up in another way, rather than reducing minor modernization and improvements? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Housing Corporation, through the annual business planning process, does look at its overall fiscal framework and does integrate adjustments where needed. During that review process, it was decided that we would be adjusting the minor maintenance and improvement category at this time, without having to impact other programs and services. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I heard a decision was made, but I did not hear why it was made. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Who should I direct this to? Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the reasons why this particular line item was identified for an adjustment in that area was the fact that the Housing Corporation, also as part of the 2019-2020 business planning process, is reinvesting an additional $250,000 into this category, for priority fuel tank replacements. So we did identify that we were also putting money into this category as well as adjusting for other factors. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. So can the witness confirm that in fact decreasing this category had nothing to do with the money available in the federal bilateral? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The adjustments in this category were not related to the bilateral agreement, with the exception of clarifying that there was an adjustment in this category for $372,000, a reduction adjustment, for declining CMHC operating fund in 2019-2020. The Housing Corporation will be reinstating that $372,000 in this category following the finalization of the three-year action plan with Canada. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. I am glad to hear that that's the case. Now, I realize that this is not the right page for this, but I heard the witness say that the money was going to be invested in fuel tank replacement, and, if I heard correctly, I do not see that the budget document supports that. The amount to be invested is the same as it was in the last fiscal year. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, as noted, there were a few adjustments in this particular account. At this time, given the fact that the $372,000 related to the CMHC declining funding is reflected in this account, there are more reductions in this particular line item as opposed to adds. So the net effect right now is a reduction, but, as noted, the Housing Corporation will be reinstating another $372,000 into this line item. It's still not going to get us all of the way there, but it will be a reinstatement as soon as the bilateral three-year action plan is approved. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. A couple of things: I did not realize that the bilateral action plan was not approved. I thought that it was a done deal. Is that not the case? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you. It was approved, and we are going through the process of approving the budget here. Maybe through you, Mr. Chair, I will ask the president and CEO to give us a little bit more detail. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Williams.

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Williams

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Under the signing of the bilateral, each jurisdiction had to come up with a three-year action plan. Initially, it was due in the end of January. The fact that only six jurisdictions now have signed onto the bilateral, they gave us more time. We have until March 31st to submit the action plan. So it's in progress right now. We are finalizing it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you for that response, Mr. Chair. Finally, I would like to ask the Minister to make a commitment to restate this page in correspondence with the Standing Committee on Social Development so that we have a more accurate idea of the coming and going on page 373. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Restate the page? Maybe a little bit more clarification from the Member. Some of the detail might be from some of the back-and-forth on the questions, but we could definitely provide the information that the Member was asking for. We are going through the budget process. Maybe a little bit more clarification, Mr. Chair, in terms of what restating of the page she wants? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. What I would like the Minister to do is to take the additional information given by Mr. Martin in his responses to my question and incorporate them into this page. I understand that the totals will be the same, but I am looking for some of the detail to be drawn out so that we understand. For example, we know that the minor modernization and improvements line is going to go up. Could he provide that detail in correspondence to the Standing Committee on Social Development? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not sure if we could really restate the page, because it has already been printed, but if the Member is fine with it, we can follow up with a supplementary letter on the breakdown of the detail of this. If a letter is fine with the Member and the committee, we would be more than happy to show that breakdown. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you for confirmation. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. A letter that details what is going on on this page is what I am seeking, so if the Minister could provide that, we are good. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. The Minister has stated that he will provide that. Seeing nothing further, I will call this activity. You know what? How about we just call a brief recess instead? Five minutes.

---SHORT RECESS

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I call Committee of the Whole back to order. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's just going to be a couple of quick questions in regard to increasing power to seniors. Can the Minister please explain why seniors are seeing this increase in public housing? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am thinking that the Member is talking about the user pay program that we have started up. Really, it is focusing on responsibility and self-reliance. We have seen a decrease in the amount of dollars that we have been putting into this subsidized program. Even though we are slow subsidizing it, there was better energy efficiency, and those savings that we have had have gone back into other programming. Maybe to go through a bit more further detail, I will ask, through you, Mr. Chair, the president and CEO to just give a little bit more of an update. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Williams.

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Williams

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The user pay electricity was put over a three-year period. I think that this was the last year of it, where public housing tenants are now paying their electricity bills. As the Minister mentioned, it is moving towards self-reliance, and eventually even preparing some of these tenants who want to get into homeownership. You have to pay your O and M costs for your house if you are a homeowner, so it is preparing people for the future.

One of the big things as a corporation that we have done over the years is making sure that all of our repairs and all of our new bills are very highly energy-efficient units, and the whole reason for that is to cut down on our operation and maintenance costs. That is ongoing, and it is a requirement under some of the new federal programming dollars, as well, that energy efficiency is a top priority when you make these investments.

We want to make sure that the tenants are self-reliant and are prepared to take some ownership in their home. It is going to improve their tenancy. One of the things that we say as a government is that we have the cheapest rents. In most jurisdictions, the rent is based on 30 percent of their household income. Our rates are based on 19 percent of the household income, so that is a big difference between the other jurisdictions. We are just having tenants pay some of their own way. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. Maybe I wasn't very clear. I am talking about seniors. Are seniors lumped in with all tenants, or do we have a different system for our seniors? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Everyone is lumped in. There are other programs that seniors can apply for through other departments. I did table a senior planning study, as well, earlier this session, and I would encourage any seniors who are having any concerns to look at the options that they have in terms of supplementing their heating. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am talking about power, but I think I understand correctly. Everybody is lumped in together, and it was over a three-year period. Did the corporation send out letters to the tenants saying that this is what is going to be happening? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, every tenant was communicated with in terms of the changes. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is great to hear. Can we get a copy of that communication so that we are able to share it with our constituents when they are asking these questions? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we can get that communication out. The communications were done mostly through the LHOs, but we will get that communication so that you can share it with your constituency. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. The Member is happy with that response. I will call this activity. NWT Housing Corporation, community housing services, operations expenditures summary, total activity, $56,043,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Please turn to the next activity, beginning on page 377, finance and infrastructure services. What's that? Am I on the wrong one? The executive. My mistake, committee. The executive, on pages 375 and 376. It is a very short activity. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I want to go to one of my favourite topics, and that is the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation web page. I will give them credit for improving the look of it. There seems to be more information available here, but I think that there is still quite a bit of work to be done. I will just give a couple of examples. The co-investment fund page, when you go there, the links are broken to get more information about new construction stream, repair and renewal stream. There are a few application forms found in some of the different web pages, but is it still the intention of the corporation to do a major overhaul of the website? At least, that is what I think that they have told me the last couple of years when they have been here. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Since I have been in the role, I have been meeting with a lot of leadership, and we need to have these programs and services given out to our stakeholders and our partners. We will be focusing on getting the website done. We are still working on it, and hopefully in May/June we will have something more updated. That will be after the Northern Housing Summit, as well, so we will get some feedback from some of our leadership on how we can make that website even more efficient in terms of getting the programs and services out. Through you, Mr. Chair, maybe I will ask my president and CEO to give a little bit more information.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Williams.

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Williams

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member is correct. It has been taking a while. I think it was over a year ago that it was raised in committee. We want to update our website. We are trying to improve it. One of the things that we are doing as a government is we are trying to update all of the websites. We are working closely with corporate comms. We want the website to have the same look and feel as the rest of the GNWT. That work is under way right now. We were hoping to get it done before today, but like the Minister said, we will be able to report on it in June. The new website will be up and running. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I played hockey with Mr. Williams last night, and he wouldn't let me score on him, so I said that I was going to have to be extra tough on him today. More seriously, I don't know how you are going to do this at the housing summit in Inuvik, but maybe you might walk people through what is currently on the website and get some ideas about how it could be improved. You know, even on the strategic renewal page, you can go off to a document and see things, but then there is a list of the changes that have been made, but there are no links to any other applications forms, guidelines, which I am sure you guys must have in place. Contacts? Like, somebody needs to be able to go to the website, get the information about a program, and get the application form, and go off and send it to the right person or know who they can talk to in their community. Is that the kind of work that the corporation intends to do to the website? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, that is exactly the work that we want to do. We want to make sure that our website is informative to all of our residents as well as all of our stakeholders and partners. We do have to work with corporate communications, and we will make sure that that work will get completed. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Okay. I have raised this now this is the third year, I think, so, come July 1st, if it's not ready, I am going to come back and ask the Minister what's going on. I appreciate the sincerity of which they say they are going to go ahead and get this work done. I just want it done sooner than later. Thanks, Mr. Chair. That is all I have.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further on this activity. I will call it. NWT Housing Corporation, executive, operations expenditure summary, $2,060,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Now, turn to finance and infrastructure services, beginning on page 377. The operations expenditure summary is on page 378. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On page 378, there is a report that debt repayment is forecasted in the next year to be $1,004,000, and I am wondering how much debt is going to still be outstanding after that amount is collected, debt to the Housing Corporation. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Currently, this is the cash portion of the debt payments that the Housing Corporation makes on an annual basis to CMHC. This is associated with the debt that came back in 1997 under the social housing agreement, when we basically acquired the social housing units. Projected at the end of March 2020, we are expecting to have approximately $33.7 million of remaining debt. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not very well informed in this area, so what I understand it, though, to say is that this debt has been paid for the last 22 years and that there are many years to go before it comes down to zero. Is that correct? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, that is correct. As Mr. Martin had referred to, we still have $33.7 million, and we will continue to make those payments since we took over the social housing. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. Further on this page, I see the spending on finance and administration has gone up by about $650,000, and I am wondering why. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There has been incremental funding for the emergency shelters program transferred through from the Department of ECE, specifically $397,000 in that area. There has also been an increase in the TSC chargebacks budget post establishment of the IT shared services, and that specific dollar amount was $234,000. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you for that. I understand that recently there was an agreement to transfer homelessness from ECE to the Housing Corporation. Is that reflected in these mains? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, that's the emergency shelters program. Our thinking around that was to have all programs under one department so it will be easier for applications to be processed with our partnerships. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, and so there is an increase in spending on the homelessness shelters forecasted for the next fiscal year. Can you tell me what that money is going to pay for? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. About $397,000 was allocated to support the shelters with additional staffing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. So this is not a pilot program; this is ongoing staffing costs that we will see in every budget going forward. Is that correct? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, that is correct, and we can also look at providing more detail for the Member in terms of how those dollars are going to be spent throughout the territory in our funded shelters. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Sure, I will take the Minister up on that. If he would like to give an overview of how that money is distributed and what those positions are about, it would be useful. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

We will commit to that.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further from Ms. Green. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess this has been something I've been asking for the last two or three years, anyway: can the Minister provide an update on the RCMP housing projects? Has any construction begun, and what's the status of the work? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin gets to deal with this.

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the Housing Corporation continues to work very closely with the Department of Justice as well as the RCMP. Previous updates provided: we indicated that the RCMP was going through the final stages of their federal approvals that were required. We have gone through numerous meetings, obviously, to get to this point. We were pleased to be advised that the RCMP did bring forward their required submission to the treasury board. We understand that it was supported with a couple of conditions. We are meeting with the RCMP tomorrow, actually, and Department of Justice to review those follow-up conditions, and we are hoping that, once those are satisfied, we will be able to move ahead with construction potentially as early as this spring. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. Can the Minister make a commitment to committee that they will provide an update once they find out what's going on so committee is aware? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We will definitely make that commitment.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

I thank you, and I appreciate the commitment from the Minister. Can that information be public once we find out about it? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know we have all been eagerly awaiting these agreements, and definitely yes.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. So, when we were going through Aurora College about housing, has the corporation looked at any ongoing foundational review about that? Have you been looking at that?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Williams.

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Williams

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Certainly, we have a good interest to assist the college moving forward, but we are going to wait until the results of the foundational review. As we move forward, we have had preliminary discussions with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. We are working with them, but, again, the outcome of the foundational review will be critical to move forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

The Corporation had plans to dispose of 50 units, 25 through sales and 25 through demolition. Was that goal achieved in 2017-2018? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we have. We have met the disposal rates. We've actually exceeded them. From my understanding, it's 162 disposable units that we met this year. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. That's 162 this year, or 162 since 2017-2018 to this moment in time? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you. It's 162 over the last three years, and we've exceeded the 50, and we're continuing to work, meeting those target rates. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister advise us what the 2019-2020 rates are going to be, demolition and sale? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are still focused on targeting for the 50, and, if we do exceed that, we will make sure that Members are aware of what those disposal rates are. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further from Mr. Thompson. NWT Housing Corporation, finance and infrastructure services, operations expenditure summary, $14,043,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5271

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5271

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Moving on to the final activity, programs and district operations. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On page 381, I note that the funding for the North Slave district has decreased by $466,000, and I'm wondering, I guess, why and how money is allocated among districts? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Martin is our finance guy. He'll probably explain this a little bit clearer than I can, and I'll just go through you, Mr. Chair, to Mr. Martin. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There were a couple of factors here that contributed to the $464,000 decrease from the previous mains for North Slave district. The first factor related to the new home program. When you look at the grants and contributions section of this activity, you will note that there has been a decline in the three-year funding allocation for 2019-2020 compared to 2018-2019 for the new home program. That explains that component. Then, there was also an adjustment of $166,000 related to amortization. The Housing Corporation updated its amortization estimates and reflected a reduction and projection for next year of $166,000. Those two factors contribute to the $464,000 decrease. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witness for that explanation. Of this money that is coming to the territories through the new bilateral agreement, with all the caveats we've previously heard about, how much of this money is going to be allocated to the North Slave? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under the bilateral agreement, the Housing Corporation is anticipating receiving about $1.9 million in a home ownership investment opportunity for 2019-2020. For the North Slave district, there will be a similar allocation here of about $320,000. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5271

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that information. On what basis was the decision made to allocate $320,000 to the North Slave, of the total available? Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The funds associated with the new home program, for example, are based on a projected level of support under that program. Right now, as indicated, we're estimating about $300,000. However, that could change following the review of applicants under that program. You could have a situation, for example, where there are more dollars allocated to the North Slave at the end of the day. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. What is it that would then trigger an increase? What is it about the review of applicants that would trigger an increase? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5271

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Right now, the Housing Corporation is undertaking a review of the new home program applicants, has already approved two, and has an outlook to approve, as indicated, another additional three to five, potentially next year, for other districts or across all districts, ultimately. This is based on assessed applicants, so we could have a situation where, for next year, we may not have approved applicants for the North Slave, for example. It really depends on the intake and the eligibility of the applicants. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't have anything further at this point.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. NWT Housing Corporation, programs and district operations, operations expenditure summary, $31,760,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5271

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Please return to page 369. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question that relates to page 370, which is an information item. It's a revenue summary item. What I understand here is that the Government of the Northwest Territories is providing less money and the CMHC is providing less money to the Housing Corporation in the next fiscal year, to the tune of about $10 million. Just for clarification, this is even after the new bilateral agreement has been taken into consideration. Is that correct?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll go to Mr. Martin on this one. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5271

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, there have been a couple of notable decreases here, first off with respect to the GNWT contribution. This is primarily explained as a result of the RCMP funding allocation to support the Housing Corporation with that initiative. The last year in which the Housing Corporation received the final allocation for that initiative was in 2018-2019, and that was to the tune of about $8 million in 2018-2019, so that explains a significant component of that change. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, and then, the reduction in the CMHC funding, could the witness provide some detail on that, as well? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 5271

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Martin

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to the CMHC funding, what's reflected there at this time is a sunset of $1.84 million associated with the previous IAH, Investment in Affordable Housing, funding agreement that the Housing Corporation had in place for the last 10 years. 2018-2019 is the last year in which the Housing Corporation was receiving the $1.8 million under that older agreement. Currently, the additional $2.4 million that has yet to be incorporated into our budget, associated with the bilateral funding allocation for 2019-2020, that will be added to the CMHC funding eventually, and that will offset that $1.84 million reduction. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I understand correctly, it won't just offset the reduction; it will actually increase the amount of money coming from CMHC. Is that the correct?

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Martin.

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Martin

That is correct, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the detail on that. I am wondering if I could get a commitment from the Minister to add this information to the letter that he is already writing to the standing committee. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Minister.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we will make that commitment and get it to standing committee. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Green.

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Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Thank you to the witness for their responses. Nothing further.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Green. NWT Housing Corporation, total, $103,906,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that this concludes our consideration of the NWT Housing Corporation?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Thank you to the Minister. Thank you to the witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, you may escort the witnesses from the Chamber. Committee, we have agreed to next consider the Department of Lands, which begins on page 301 of the document. I will turn to the Minister responsible for opening comments. Minister Sebert.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to present the 2019-2020 Main Estimates for the Department of Lands. Overall, the department's estimates propose an increase of $1,847,000, or 9 percent over the 2018-2019 Main Estimates.

These estimates continue to support the objectives of limiting expenditure growth in order to ensure the long-term sustainability of the fiscal framework. These estimates continue to support the priorities of the 18th Legislative Assembly through the management and administration of sustainable use of public land in the Northwest Territories.

Highlights of the proposed estimates include new initiative funding totalling $1,677,000 to further enhance our ability to responsibly manage land in the Northwest Territories. This includes funding of $674,000 in 2019-2020 to support a two-year initiative for the establishment of a Wek'eezhii land use planning committee and planning office.

Building on work that began in 2018-2019, these estimates also include funding of $674,000 for 2019-2020 to continue to advance work for the management of untenured and unauthorized occupancy of public lands. This initiative includes a number of term positions to support this work, including a land administrator position, a strategic analyst sustainability position, and a resource management officer II position.

To support the department's core functions, these estimates include $200,000 for one indeterminate geotechnical advisor to provide land-related geotechnical knowledge and $129,000 for one indeterminate geomatics analyst.

To further advance work that began in 2018-2019 to address equity leases in the Northwest Territories, the department's estimates include an additional $563,000 to fund a total of five positions, for three years, to address this land tenure issue. Four lands specialist positions dedicated to this initiative are located in Fort Simpson, Inuvik, Fort Smith, and Yellowknife, with the team lead position located in Fort Smith.

Lands' estimates include a sunset of one-time funding of $50,000, which was approved in support of the Agriculture Strategy implementation initiative led by the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment, as well as a sunset of $106,000 for transition allowances for devolved federal employees previously approved for a five-year term beginning in 2014-2015.

To support our mandate commitments in the area of land use planning, these estimates provide for the Department of Lands to continue to coordinate the Government of the Northwest Territories' input into the development of regional land use plans, including capacity building and contribution funding to Indigenous governments in areas without completed land use plans. In addition to the work with the Tlicho and federal government to support land use planning for public lands in the Wek'eezhii area, the department is leading the development of an approach to land use planning for the southeast portion of the Northwest Territories. Work in this area will be further enhanced with the completion of the department's strategic approach to land use planning NWT-wide, which is expected to be released in early 2019-2020.

These estimates also continue to support the high inspection standards that mitigate potential risk on public land dispositions, as well as those that may exist in relation to activities that have been permitted by the department or the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board.

This concludes my opening remarks. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. I understand that you have witnesses you wish to bring into the Chamber. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Minister, please take your seat at the witness table. Minister, would you please introduce your witnesses for the record.

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Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Deputy Minister Willard Hagen is to my left, and Brenda Hilderman, director of finance and administration, is to my left.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Committee, there are three activities in this department. The departmental total is found on page 305. However, we will defer that until consideration of the activities, the first of which, corporate management, begins on page 308. Comments or questions to this activity? Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Actually, I think it is further down where land use planning is found. Yes. Okay, I have it. Sorry, I'm just getting my notes together. Sorry, the items that I have are further down into the business plan. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Lands, corporate management, operations expenditures summary, $3,446,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. We are already a third of the way through the department. Moving on to the next activity, operations, beginning on page 312. I will give committee a moment. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think that this is the part of the budget where a whole bunch of people are being moved out to the Department of Finance for the ISSS. Is that correct? Thanks.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister, could you please clarify?

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand that the mains have been restated to exclude that change.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Now, Mr. O'Reilly, would you like to rephrase the question, perhaps?

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I am trying to understand the answer. So, in last year's business plan, is this where we would have found all of those wonderful GIS people who in this budget would have been moved out to the Department of Finance? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Hilderman.

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Hilderman

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our 2018-2019 Main Estimates had a fourth activity, which was the Informatics Shared Services Centre, so, with a major reorganization, restructure, then the mains are restated. That activity is no longer in Department of Lands' main estimates. It now appears within Department of Finance's. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Okay, so now we have the "ministry of the evaporating function" within Lands. So, okay, Mr. Chair, where can I ask, then, about the indeterminate geomatics analyst position that the Minister spoke of in his opening remarks? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, that is within this activity. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Bingo. I think I've got it now. Why is the department hiring a geomatics analyst -- as I understand, these are computer people who do computerized mapping and all that kind of thing -- when it seems like all of those functions have been removed from the department and are now parked in Finance? Can someone explain to me why this person or why this position is being added to the Lands budget? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes. A large body of work that forms the Department of Lands' core business is geomatics-related and involves mapping and surveying approvals to be appended to leases and related legal agreements and documents, so the geomatics analyst will support self-government implementation by ensuring GIS data and land-tenure records to be transferred are current and reflect a high degree of accuracy. This position will aid in response to additional survey needs and requirements stemming from the transfer of lands, of land related to land resources, and self-government agreements. This work is often time sensitive, so presently Lands has one resource dedicated to this work in land administration. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the explanation from the Minister. I am still trying to figure out why is this position not in the ISSS unit that is in Finance? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am told that the reason for this is that this is a person who is dedicated to this specific area of work, and, for that reason, that is why we need this position. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. The Minister is starting to make my case for why I think ISSS is a bad move in the first place. Here's a department that is creating a new position so that they can get timely access to the kind of services that ISSS is supposed to be delivering. That sort of goes counter to the whole reason why this thing was being set up in the first place. I don't agree with it, and I think the people who were being moved out of Lands into the Department of Finance should stay with Lands. This just, I guess, confirms my belief that this is a bad thing to do, this ISSS, when we have a department here that is creating a new position because they want timely access to the kind of services that those guys are supposed to be providing. I don't know if the Minister has any remarks he would like to make in response to that, but I would be curious to hear what he would have to say. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you for the comments. This position is very specific to Lands, and we needed this person so that they could be easily accessible, if I could put it that way. I do understand the Member's concern about the overall direction of the centralization, but this is a position that we felt we very specifically needed for our own needs. I don't think I want to comment about the overall structure and the creation of the ISS department, or whatever it's called. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I don't have anything further, but I think the Minister has made my case for me, so I appreciate his efforts. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Next, we have Mr. McNeely.

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Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just ask the question if there are any internal assessments or reviews done to bring in OROGO to this department? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

I know that this question has come up before. It was thought appropriate a few years ago, I forget the exact date, maybe 2016, somewhere around there, that OROGO should be parked in justice. I don't think we have re-evaluated that placement, and I don't think we are intending to do that in the near future. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On page 314, we see an increase of five positions. Could the Minister explain what the increase of those five positions is? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chair, if I could just go through them, there is a geomatics analyst, land administration; geotechnical advisor, land administration; land administrator of land administration; land specialist, land administration; land specialist, regional land administration; and the resource management officer II in resource management. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

I don't think I was on your list.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Just a force of habit, I guess. Mr. Thompson.

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I counted seven, but maybe I didn't calculate that correctly. I just saw it from there, on page 314, it just showed five increases, so are those the equity leases positions? Are those positions dealing with the equity leases? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Hilderman.

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Hilderman

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have two additional positions for the equity lease initiative. They were approved in the supplemental, so then they appear in the first mains after the supplemental in 2018-2019. We have the new geomatics analyst position and the new geotechnical advisor, and then, in support of the initiative to address unauthorized occupancy and potential rights-based occupancy, we have one new resource management officer II, so a net increase of five. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Seeing nothing further, I will call this activity. Lands, operations, operations expenditure summary, $11,654,000. Does committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Moving on to the final activity, planning and coordination, beginning on page 315. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I would like to start with questions about the allocation in here for land use planning in the Wekweeti management area. There is $647,000 in the Department of Lands and another $79,000 in Department of Infrastructure. Can the Minister tell us what this money is actually for? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The monies are primarily to set up the foundation for a land use plan in the public land areas of the Wekweeti region, and there is a land use plan there that the Tlicho government have done under private lands, which is different from the other regions that have a land use plan. They did a land use plan for the whole region. The responsibility for paying for the plan is the federal government's, as the legislation comes out of the MVRMA, which is federal legislation. This money we have is to set up an office in Behchoko and have an executive director in Yellowknife. We are setting the stage, working with a partner, with the Tlicho government, and in anticipation of the federal government funding the land use plan, which they have done in every single region that has a plan, including the Deh Cho, who have been at it for about 15 years, and the feds have funded that, primarily. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, that is great. Why are we spending the money to do land use planning? Why is this not the federal government? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Unfortunately, if we waited for the federal government, we would never have a land use plan, so, by going forward the way we are going, get their attention, we have the Tlicho government, who obviously have a constitution of protected land claim agreement and it speaks to having a land use plan in the region. So we are not going to go forward any further than we have to in spending of dollars, but we are having a foundation here, and, in partnership with the Tlicho, we are going to have a position in Behchoko. From this we are hoping and pushing for the feds to come forth with the dollars to complete the land use plan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Is there any prospect that this money can be recovered from the federal government? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Hagen

I'm sorry. I didn't catch his question there. Sorry about that.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Is there any prospect that this money could be recovered from the federal government?

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Hagen

Sorry, I missed that.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I will allow Mr. O'Reilly to re-ask his question. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Is there any way we can get this money back from the federal government? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Mr. Hagen.

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Hagen

Mr. Chair, my apologies. We could sure try. I don't see it happening. We do have some obligations in the Department of Lands to go forward. We are a partner. There are three partners in this plan. We do have to put some, for lack of a better word, I guess, some "skin in the game" here to get it kick-started, and that is what we are doing. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I don't want the witnesses to get the impression that I don't believe in land use planning. That is actually what brought me to the Northwest Territories in 1985. I became the land use planning coordinator for the Dene nation and actually spent some time working with Violet Camsell-Blondin and a whole bunch of other people, Michael Nadli, and so on, so this is what actually got me up here, and I want this to be done. I just am trying to understand why we are getting out in it ahead of the federal government. It is their responsibility to fund this. I understand there is a need for land use planning, but can someone just explain why there is so much urgency that we are going to spend $1.5 million on land use planning in this area before you can even get the feds to the table to agree to it? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

I think, Mr. Chair, that we obviously, along with the Member, regard the land use planning as critical and therefore are willing to commit resources to the establishment of a planning office and senior representative. As we have mentioned, the planning process, I think part of it, and I will let Mr. Hagen expand on my answer, is that we feel that it is necessary for someone to go ahead and that that is why we have decided to step up to the plate, but perhaps Mr. Hagen can expand on that answer. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Like I said five minutes ago, if we waited for the federal government, I think it would be a lot of years before they came to the table. We found this through other land use plans. If we start the process, which we are doing, it is a mandate item in the 18th Assembly to start land use planning, and, if we start it off, then, of course, we set the goals and we have the plan, and, hopefully at the end of the day -- they don't necessarily have to participate. We just need $5 million to complete the Tlicho land use plans. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Is there no provision within the Tlicho agreement for taking an issue to arbitration to force the federal government to pay for this? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you. I frankly don't know if there is or not, but I am advised by Mr. Hagen that he doesn't think there is.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I would hope that the department would look into that. Can someone tell me: how much is the Tlicho government contributing to this effort? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Hagen

To my knowledge, they are not putting in any money for it. They did put some dollars in, along with the federal government, for doing a land use plan on their private lands, but they are putting very little into this process, although they are a full partner in it. They are cooperating. They have, obviously, all of the knowledge that is required for the traditional knowledge and the regions that are sacred to them, that should be protected. So their contribution isn't necessarily dollars, but what they are doing is invaluable to ensuring that we get a proper land use plan on public lands. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Okay. Can someone tell me: is the result of this going to be a legally binding land use plan? If so, under what legislation will that authorization lay? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. At the end of the day, it will be legally binding, signed off by the Tlicho government, the Government of the Northwest Territories, and the federal government will sign it, and it will be a legal document. As to legislation, I would have to get back to you on exactly how to see that going forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Okay. I am going to leave that one alone for now. I remain concerned that we are spending money on this without the federal government being at the table. I want to move forward on a couple of other areas in here. Can someone explain to me why there has been no progress on developing policy legislation to help prevent more public liabilities? There is a unit, I think, located in here, securities and project assessment. It was announced with great fanfare by the previous Minister, and nothing seems to have happened. I am not aware of any policy on mine site reclamation that replaces the federal one that we have somehow endorsed. We are not going to see a new Waters Act. Maybe there might be something in the Public Lands Act. Where is there any policy or legislation that is going to improve and prevent more public liabilities from happening? That is a mandate commitment. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a complex and involved area that has been alluded to by the Member. On the issue of securities, if I might address that, we believe that we have addressed most of the issues identified in the 2012 Auditor General's report on federal mining securities management and programs that transferred to the GNWT with devolution. We are currently completing work on the report's priority recommendation, a securities tracking system to support regular reviews of securities amounts and closure plans for major projects. I see that we are currently holding $644.8 million of land and water securities in cash and non-cash forms. We do realize that this is an important area. The department has updated the securities provisions in our land management legislation. This will be included in the bill that we have introduced during this sitting. We do recognize also that securities management is a shared responsibility among the GNWT department, the federal government, Indigenous landowners, and so on. We are doing work in this area. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Any closing comments on that, Mr. O'Reilly?

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I might have to get put back on.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

If you want to get put back on the list, I will give you a second round. Your time has expired for this round, so we will put you back and start the clock fresh. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Mr. Thompson?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Okay. I guess Mr. Thompson also wants to be put on the list, so we will get to him first, and then Mr. O'Reilly, unless someone else needs to get on there as well. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will try to be brief on this one here. In regard to the cabin leases, I know that we have reached out to the Indigenous groups to get them to work with the department. Can the Minister advise us how the work is going in that area? Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hope that is in this area.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. You've got a one-in-three shot. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not sure if I clearly heard the question. Maybe I could ask the questioner: are we talking about addressing unauthorized and potential rights-based occupancy? Very well. Obviously, we don't condone the unlawful use of public lands, and we continue to take action regarding unauthorized occupants. We do recognize, however, that we must, of course, respect Aboriginal and treaty rights. We have reached out to Indigenous organizations to begin work to find effective ways to identify potential rights-based cabins. This work is in the early stages and will help the department take action regarding unauthorized occupancy. We need to know what is out there, if I can put it that way. That is why we reached out to Indigenous governments, to work on ways to determine which cabins are potentially rights-based cabins. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am fully aware of that. I am just trying to find out what the uptake has been from the Indigenous groups. I have been aware that we have reached out to them. There have been letters. There have been presentations to the Indigenous groups. What has been the uptake with them to help us identify traditional cabins versus unauthorized occupancy on the land? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have been moving forward in the last couple of months, engaging in every region of the Northwest Territories with Indigenous governments, including in the ISR with IRC, identifying who is out in the regions that either have a lease or are on private land or have a right in their land claim agreement on public lands. It is a slow process, but everybody is cooperating in ensuring that we get the names, and that is one reason why we need the analyst doing mapping of all of the areas where the rights-based cabins are. Once we have that established in every region, then the rest of them who don't have leases will be unauthorized, and then we will be going after them. Preferably, the first action would be to get them into a lease. The last action would be compliance and taking them into court to evict them from territorial lands. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you. If I understand Mr. Hagen correctly, then, the Indigenous groups, land claim groups, or the First Nations groups, the regional councils, they have agreed to work with us and are moving forward, even though it may be slow, but they have agreed to work with us on this? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, that is correct. We have a lot of cooperation. There is a lot of understanding of what we are trying to do. We are actually trying to protect the people of the regions who have the right to a harvesting cabin and don't necessarily require a lease. The Department of Lands would like to see everybody in a lease, although not necessarily having to pay the full amount if it is a traditional cabin, but a lease would enable us to be better land managers. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Have we gotten written confirmation from these groups that this is what we are doing, or has it been a gentlemen's agreement? I guess that's the question, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Hagen

Yes, it wasn't our intention to get a signed agreement. We are engaging and, in some instances, consulting and cooperating with each Aboriginal or Indigenous government in each region. As I say, we are getting great cooperation. They now understand why we would like to identify the rights-based cabins in the regions, and they have the same desire, that people who are not from the region or don't have a lease are unauthorized occupiers of the land. They would also like them removed or get them into a lease.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Sebert would like to add something.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes. I just want to add that, by our estimate, there are more than 700 structures on public land that do not have tenure. This is a problem throughout the North, and I understand that a pretty high percentage of these structures are actually in the area around Yellowknife. Now, some of these may include cabins that are associated with an assertion of Aboriginal rights.

It is a complex issue, but it is an important issue, because there are, as I say, hundreds of structures. Not all of those are cabins; they may be something less or something more than cabins, but it is an issue that is going to take time. It is complicated, also. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Thompson.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank Mr. Hagen and the Minister for that. I understand it's a complicated issue, and so I just wanted to make sure I understood, because some organizations have said they do not want to do it. Some have come up with some really creative solutions, so I am just trying to understand how the department was working towards making sure things are dealt with properly. I am content with the answers I received here today. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. McNeely.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My contribution is more of an information statement here, just to share some light on the Sahtu land use planning. The organization shares office with the Sahtu Land and Water Board, and it seems to work out very cooperatively, operating both staff in the same building. Looking at the four settlement corporations here, to have one regime that is straight across the board that covers 66 percent of the territorial land quantum gives me comfort that the land use planning should go ahead so that it's all in compliance throughout forced settlement areas, with the same regime applicable to each department or each land area. I just share that with my colleagues here. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. More of a comment from Mr. McNeely. Next on the list, Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I realize I am the only thing standing between folks and dinner. I want to ask about the fabled project assessment policy, because it does not seem to be working out very well. The Tlicho All-Season Road, I guess it was used there, and the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board was highly critical of our government's involvement in that environmental assessment. Can the Minister confirm for me that the project assessment policy was applied to TerraX in their recent application for exploration in the Yellowknife area? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, I guess for one thing, we have a difference of opinion. I think the assessment policy worked very well and was very successful in the Tlicho All-Season Road. We went through a very complicated environmental assessment. We got through it. It was signed off by the feds and planned off by my Minister, and it's now in the licensing and permitting, and that will be all done by fall, when, hopefully, they will be starting construction. As for TerraX, I think you are well aware that there was some delay in getting them a water licence, which they should have today, actually, but they have decided to cancel their program for the winter. Yes, we are going to use the assessment process where all departments are working together and Department of Lands is coordinating the regulatory process going forward with TerraX. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. The Minister would like to add something. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to let the Member know that the Department of Lands is coordinating a GNWT-wide review of the project assessment function to identify areas where we might make improvements and to identify priorities. Also, we are coordinating, the department, a GNWT-wide "lessons learned" exercise on the Tlicho All-Season Road environmental assessment, so we are looking at the past to make sure that we can make improvements on the future. My final statement is one I know will be accepted well by the Member: the GNWT manages its various roles as proponent and regulatory decision-maker to avoid any real or perceived apprehension of bias.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks. That is great. I appreciate that sentiment from the Minister. I did want to reply to one of Mr. Hagen's comments. It's not me saying that the GNWT did not participate well in the Tlicho All-Season Road. That comes from the review board itself, in the developer's assessment report. The review board was highly critical of our government on the Tlicho All-Season Road. TerraX is not proceeding with its exploration this winter. This project assessment policy does not seem to be working very well. The Minister talked about how there is going to be a "lessons learned" coming out of the Tlicho All-Season Road environmental assessment. Has that been completed, and can the Minister share that with the standing committee? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Hagen.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Hagen

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The fact that TerraX is not proceeding has nothing to do, absolutely nothing to do, with the policy at all. They decided not to go forward because they did not get a class B water licence in time. Part of that was the Department of Fisheries and Oceans holding up the process, not deliberately. Once they decide they are going to move forward, which I assume will be perhaps even this summer, then we will be back in with the policy and coordinating all of the departments together. So it works very well, and we will do a "lessons learned" on the Tlicho All-Season Road. Although, from where I sit, there are really not a lot of lessons to be learned. It was well carried out. It was successful. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Please, Mr. Chair. That didn't really answer my question: has that exercise been completed, and, if so or if it's going to be happening in the future, can the Minister agree to share the report with the standing committee? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister Sebert.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

This review of lessons learned or this exercise to examine the Tlicho All-Season Road assessment, we are coordinating, as I say, a GNWT-wide "lessons learned" exercise. That has not yet been completed. If it is and when it is completed, if I have the ability to do so, I will share it with committee. I do appreciate the Member's concern about this whole area, and I did not mean to make light of the fact that we are the proponent and regulator on some projects. It does have its complexities, which I understand. I can't think of a different or better way of being both proponent and regulatory decision-maker, but, certainly, we have to review our project assessment function to make sure that it's transparent and works well. This is going to be an ongoing issue, and I just want Members to know that we are looking at making improvements. I think perhaps Mr. Hagen would like to elaborate on that. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I will actually go back to Mr. O'Reilly. It's his time, and we are running low. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yes, thanks, Mr. Chair. I will just read a quick quote from the review board. The board found that the so-called whole-of-government approach, and this is the quote, "has limited the ability of evidence and expertise from GNWT departments about the potential impacts, concerns, and mitigations on issues within their respective mandates and jurisdictions." That, to me, is pretty damning. That is not coming from me. That is coming from the review board, so I want to encourage the Minister, and I think he is made a commitment before that he is going to review how this policy has been working. I think it has failed this government twice now, and I don't agree with Mr. Hagen's assessment. If we maybe had provided better advice to the proponent, better advice to the land and water board, maybe TerraX might be out there exploring right now. I think we can and should be doing a lot better, and that policy is not working. Is the Minister prepared to review that policy and share that with the standing committee? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. I will ask that we keep this very tight. We are very far into policy now, not so much in the budget. Minister, please respond.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

Yes. I think that I agree with the comment that we can do better. Yes, we're going to be looking at these policies, the review of the GNWT's project assessment function, to look at areas for potential improvements, and I'm sure we can share that as we proceed. We want to hear from committee with their input because, in the end, I think we have the same object. We want to make the system better. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Nothing further from Mr. O'Reilly. Lands, planning and coordination, operations expenditure summary, $7,484,000. Does committee agree?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Please return to the activity total, or rather the departmental total, on page 305. I will call the total department. Lands, total department, $22,584,000. Does committee agree?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that this concludes our consideration of the Department of Lands?

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. Thank you to the Minister and to the witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, you may escort the witnesses from the Chamber. The Minister would like to make a comment. Minister.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Louis Sebert

Louis Sebert Thebacha

I'd like to thank all those who asked questions about the Lands Department. I referred to the new Lands Act which will be introduced, I gave notice today, or yesterday. Thank you very much. Today? Was it today? It seems like a long time ago.

---Laughter

Seriously, I do thank all those who are here and have asked interesting questions and who really are interested in improvement. I realize this is a very difficult area, made particularly difficult when you are the proponent as well as the regulator. Thank you.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Sergeant-at-Arms, you may escort the witnesses from the Chamber. I guess they didn't have to stick around for the Minister's closing statements, but we thank them for sticking around anyway. Minister, you can take your seat. Thank you to the witnesses. What is the wish of committee? Mr. Beaulieu.

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Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the chair rise and report progress.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. There is a motion to report progress. The motion is in order and non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I will rise and report progress.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

May I have the report, Member for Hay River North?

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 322-18(3), Main Estimates 2019-2020, and would like to report progress, and, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Do we have a seconder? Member for Yellowknife Centre. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed?

---Carried

Masi. Item 22, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

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Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

[Translation] Orders of the day for Friday, March 8, 2019, at 10:00 a.m.:

  1. Prayer
  2. Ministers' Statements
  3. Members' Statements
  4. Returns to Oral Questions
  5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
  6. Acknowledgments
  7. Oral Questions
  8. Written Questions
  9. Returns to Written Questions
  10. Replies to the Commissioner's Opening Address
  11. Petitions
  12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
  13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
  14. Tabling of Documents
  15. Notices of Motion
  16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
  17. Motions
  18. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 44, Forest Act

- Bill 45, Corrections Act

  1. Second Reading of Bills

- Bill 42, An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act

- Bill 43, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act

  1. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 26, Statistics Act

- Bill 31, Northwest Territories 911 Act

- Committee Report 12-18(3), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 2018 Report of the Auditor General of Canada on Northwest Territories Child and Family Services

- Committee Report 13-18(3), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of Bill 31: Northwest Territories 911 Act

- Minister's Statement 131-18(3), Sessional Statement

- Minister's Statement 151-18(3), New Federal Infrastructure Agreement

- Minister's Statement 158-18(3), Developments in Early Childhood Programs and Services

- Tabled Document 237-18(3), Independent Commission to Review Members' Compensation and Benefits 2018 Review of Members' Compensation and Benefits Report, August 2018

- Tabled Document 322-18(3), Main Estimates, 2019-2020

  1. Report of Committee of the Whole
  2. Third Reading of Bills
  3. Orders of the Day

[Translation ends]

Orders Of The Day
Orders Of The Day

Page 5276

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi, Mr. Clerk. [Translation] This House stands adjourned until Friday, March 8, 2019, at 10:00 a.m. [Translation ends]

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 6:15 p.m.