This is page numbers 6187 - 6288 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was public.

Topics

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Zones can be created by a nomination from Indigenous governments. Zones were included in the bill to create a method for Indigenous governments to drive where and how they could attract investment within their lands if they so choose. Zones were intended to provide greater certainty for industry by indicating where Indigenous governments would welcome greater exploration. We are trying to encourage early exploration, which is fundamental to our government's position that we need exploration to foster new, responsible development and hopefully results in discoveries that could be our future mines. This is our solution to doing it in way that not only respects Indigenous governments, but allows them to have a say in how they wish to benefit from mineral exploration. We also have to remember that zones are temporary and can be adjusted with the agreement of IGOs if they have met the goal in the creation of that zone. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I don't accept all of the reasoning there from the Minister, but he also neglected to indicate that 24.7 here would allow the Minister to create zones on the Minister's own initiative. Is that correct? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, but we would have to consult with Indigenous governments. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Great, so the Minister can do this as well. Can I just get an explanation from the department of what the purpose of subclause (13) in this section is? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Faryna.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

Faryna

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The purpose of subsection (13) in the reprint is a for-greater-certainty clause. It is just to clarify the interpretation of this, and that any zone creates an option doesn't change the normal rules and their availability. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I read this, (13) says that a person may apply for an instrument in accordance with the regulations establishing a zone or in the general regulations established under this act. There are going to be maybe two sets of rules, terms, or conditions that are established that could apply to somebody getting an instrument in a zone. For a prospecting licence, a mining claim, a lease, there could be two sets of rules that could apply to those instruments. Is that correct? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Strand.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

Strand

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is incorrect to suggest that there are two sets of rules. There is only one underlying set of rules for the Mineral Resources Act, and that is for getting and maintaining mineral interests. That lays the groundwork. The incentives that would be put in place if a zone is established would modify some of the requirements in a specified area where that zone is in place.

If I can use a practical example, if you had a zone, a proponent could apply for whatever instrument we are giving out under that zone. Alternatively, that proponent could also say, "Well, I'm just going to stake a regular mineral claim and follow the regular act." That would be an example of where the overall MRA regulations for mineral tenure would apply versus one that a proponent would select to follow the zone rules. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6254

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that the witness proved my point. There could be two sets of terms and conditions that relate to claims: one for the zone and one of general application, which I think is going to create confusion -- it is creating confusion in my own mind, obviously -- about having two sets of rules for anyone applying for an instrument.

Can someone from the department clarify whether anybody has actually requested this ability to have what I interpret as two sets of rules for someone securing an instrument? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6255

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Strand.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6255

Strand

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This shouldn't be new. We have zones currently in the Northwest Territories, and they are referred to under the sections in the mining regulations, called prospecting permits. We are simply building on that tool.

Right now, under our mining regulations, we have two zones: one north of the 68th parallel and one south of the 68th parallel. That means that the entire Northwest Territories is divided into two zones. Somebody can apply for the instrument of a prospecting permit, or somebody can apply for a mineral claim, go out, and stake one. That would be two sets of rules that we currently have where people can apply for two different sets of instruments. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6255

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6255

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I continue to respectfully disagree. I think that this is going to create confusion that there are two sets of rules that can apply within one zone.

I want to move on, Mr. Chair, to one other issue with regard to zones, and I neglected to raise it earlier. It is what I call the race to the bottom, where we could have Indigenous governments competing with each other to try to attract investment by having lower and lower standards. What is the department going to do to prevent that from happening? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6255

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Minister.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6255

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I myself have a whole lot of confidence in our partners and Indigenous governments to effectively represent their interests. It seems that certain Members may not share that confidence.

Zones cannot override requirements under any other legislation. The favourable terms are limited to how mineral interests are acquired and maintained. They cannot cover things like water or environmental rules, which are rightly enshrined in other legislations. We plan to set out the baseline of what kind of incentives are allowed within a zone in regulations in partnership with Indigenous governments and stakeholders. We don't believe that this is all that different than regimes in places like Manitoba, Ontario, and the Yukon. Members can rest assured that there are examples in place.

Furthermore, we believe that the checks and balances offered by the Executive Council engagement with Indigenous governments is more than enough to prevent this kind of issue. We should also note the reality that exploration is driven by geology and not by incentives. Incentives are simply a tool to enhance how and where that happens. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6255

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Mr. O'Reilly.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6255

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wish to raise a point of order. The Minister is impugning motives on my part, saying that I don't have confidence in Indigenous governments. I have never said that in this House, and I respectfully would request that he withdraw those remarks. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee Motion 222-18(3): Bill 34: Mineral Resources Act - Amend Clause 24(7), Defeated
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 6255

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. One moment. I will give the Minister a chance to respond to the point of order. Minister Schumann.