This is page numbers 6187 - 6288 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was public.

Topics

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Vanthuyne.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that this committee recommends that the previously noted implementation plan identify how the regulatory gap related to the matter of removing drill core be resolved. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Vanthuyne.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through this process, I think that we recognize that there, of course, is one of the most important aspects of mining and exploration is drill core, and that it can be a little bit challenging and costly at times to store and/or move drill core, but that its preservation is very important due to what it can provide for history and for future exploration opportunities.

We felt that there was certainly a need to be able to address those challenges that we have as it relates to making sure that we are safeguarding drill core, and making sure that it's going to have some opportunity in the future to be accessible to those who might have some interests in exploration or prospecting in the Northwest Territories, or even for mines. That's the basis of it, but I think others might want to talk around this as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. O'Reilly.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Anybody who has hiked around Yellowknife knows that you can stumble across drill cores out in the bush that have been left there. As my colleague from Yellowknife North mentioned, we want to ensure that the money they expensed, the effort that has gone into drilling and retrieving core and storing it, that geological knowledge is protected. In some cases, drill core, when it's left out in the open can present a safety issue, a public safety issue, when cores start to fall over and so on. Some of the core may have the potential to generate acid, leach metals, so that there can be some environmental issues around some of the cores that might be brought above ground. I'm happy to say that we did work with the Minister and the department to make a couple of changes to the bill so that abandonment is now subject to regulations at the Minister's discretion.

What we did discover is that drill core is not actually dealt with in any way through something like the Mackenzie Valley Land Use Regulations, Territorial Land Use Regulations. The thresholds and items covered in those regulations don't really cover drill core. This is a policy recommendation around making sure that we close up that regulatory gap in the other regulations that deal more generally with reclamation and restoration of lands so that we capture the geological knowledge to make sure that there is no safety or environmental issues in the future. I support this. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Vanthuyne.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that this committee recommends, to the extent it is possible before the dissolution of the 18th Assembly and for the public record, that the government provide a response to these recommendations, even of a preliminary nature, that committee may publicly disclose. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Seeing nothing further, does committee agree this concludes our consideration of Committee Report 33-18(3)?

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you, committee. This concludes consideration of Committee Report 33-18(3). Committee, we will move onto consideration of Bill 34 after a very brief recess.

---SHORT RECESS

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

I will now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Bill 34, Mineral Resources Act. I will turn to the Minister responsible for opening comments. Minister Schumann.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to introduce Bill 34, Mineral Resources Act. Bill 34 is part of our government's work to improve the Northwest Territories land and resource management regime to ensure Northerners are able to make decisions that support sustainable, responsible development and protection of the environment while respecting Indigenous rights.

Today I would like to speak with you about its purpose and our vision for what it can achieve. First and foremost, this legislation is the foundation upon which our management of the mineral industry can be built. Its defining goals are to give our government the ability to respond to the wants and needs of our people, bring clarity and certainty where it is lacking, modernizing how we govern mineral resources, and codifying our current best practices. The new authorities proposed in this act will give us the ability to establish regulations to match those ambitions. We believe the Mineral Resources Act defines a vision for managing exploration and mining in a way that makes sure Northwest Territories residents benefit, fosters positive relationships, and advances the public interest while maintaining a balanced approach and encouraging investment.

Contained within this bill are provisions which would ensure benefits for Indigenous governments and organizations for major mining projects that enter the operations phase of a mine. It is our firm belief that it is good public policy to codify our territory's longstanding commitment to bringing benefits to Indigenous communities from resource projects. While this is the first in legislation for Canada, the intent is to simplify and translate the practice of negotiating with Indigenous governments, which mining companies are either already doing or are expected to do in some form, wherever they do business into law. We think that this requirement can have a positive impact on investment decisions, as there is a growing movement toward sustainable financing by large investors with benefit to and support from Indigenous governments increasingly seen as a necessity.

Bill 34 also addresses benefit-generating tools for all Northwest Territories residents. The bill will clarify an approach that has existed in practice in our existing socio-economic agreements. As a government, we work collectively with our producers toward shared goals, but at the same time, provide the flexibility to allow evolution in these agreements or to use other appropriate tools to generate benefits for the territory in the future.

For Indigenous governments, communities, public government, and those looking to do business here, there are measures in this bill which will benefit each of them as they work to build mutually beneficial relationships in the mining industry. We believe that this bill will encourage early engagement, better communication, and predictable dispute resolution. This bill defines new authorities, reducing conflict by addressing gaps around sensitive lands and local awareness amongst those exploring for minerals.

We have proposed zones to create a method for Indigenous governments to drive where and how they could attract exploration investment within their lands by recommending them to the Minister. We also believe that they will create certainty by providing clarity on where IGOs wish to encourage exploration and where exploration is welcome.

We are also proposing a tool for Indigenous governments to quickly access protection of areas or sensitive cultural, ecological, or spiritual considerations facing imminent harm exists and were previously unknown. This would be a short-term measure to bridge the gap on a way to a permanent solution.

The Mineral Resources Act will enable our exploration regime to move into the 21st Century with online map staking. This will actually help facilitate and improve communication and transparency once implemented. We recognize that geological information is key, and that a whole lot about it is collected through the mineral exploration to mining activities. This bill will give us the authorities to collect more geoscience information through all stages of the mineral development cycle. Such measures would add to our understanding of the territory's geology, and when that information is made public, it has the potential to encourage economic development in the future. The act also respects the need for reasonable confidentiality to protect commercial interests.

Bill 34 is one of the most significant pieces of legislation introduced in the Northwest Territories since devolution in 2014. The department completed extensive legislative research, multiplatform engagement campaign where the public, Indigenous governments, industries, NGOs, and other interested stakeholders were invited to comment, feedback from those on Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment, and close collaboration with intergovernmental council throughout the policy development process.

The department produced and promoted plain language materials to assist in informing the public. The Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment has worked with the legislative division of the Department of Justice on this bill. The department has been clear that many regulations, along with the accompanying awareness materials, must be completed to bring provisions of this act into force should it pass.

We are committed to moving forward in the spirit of collaboration with our partners on the intergovernmental council, our industry, and of all our affected stakeholders, and we recognize how important that collaboration will be in getting implementation right. Everyone involved in the making of this bill wants improved investor confidence, and we also want to maintain increased investment in the Northwest Territories.

The bill will not come into force until necessary regulations are in place for the act's general function. The implementation of the Mineral Resources Act will be a phased approach. This is consistent among other jurisdictions that have done similar overhauls of their mining legislation.

I wish to commend the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Environment on their continued engagement with the public as this bill has moved through the legislative process. It is an important bill, and I appreciate how much time and effort has been dedicated by all parties. I hope that the plain language materials that the department has produced and promoted since introduction were helpful in informing the public.

I welcome any questions that Members may have. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Does the chair of the committee that reviewed the bill have any opening comments? Mr. Vanthuyne.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Minister's opening comments. I think that he spoke well to the bill in general. I just do want to touch one more time on committee's experiences to some degree and just say again that we agree with the Minister that, clearly, this is one of those laws for this territory that is certainly incredibly important for the success of our territory going forward. The undertaking of this review was reflective of that. I think that it was extensive, and we are incredibly appreciative of all of the input that we have received up and down the entire valley as it related to this bill and from all of the important stakeholders and their contributions that they have made.

Committee, again, wants to extend a thank you to the Minister and his staff for the very collaborative approach that we had between us. There were a couple of unique circumstances where we really felt that there was an opportunity to sit face-to-face with the Minister and his staff, along with the committee and our staff, and I think that that really made a difference and allowed for some progress to be made where it may not have otherwise.

There might be other Members who want to speak to the actual bill itself, but I just wanted to share a little bit more about the process that we experienced and that, while it had bumpy roads at times, I am sure that there might be a few more bumps that could be experienced this evening over the next couple of hours, at the end of the day, the result is going to be a world-class piece of legislation that the territory can certainly show off to the rest of the country and others. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. I understand that there are witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the chamber. Minister, you may take your seat at the witness table. I see that we have a couple of visitors in the gallery who have joined us. I would like to welcome Mr. Tom Hoefer, the executive director of the NWT-Nunavut Chamber of Mines. Welcome. The Minister is ready. Would you please introduce your witnesses for the record.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On my left is Pamela Strand, assistant deputy minister of ITI. On my immediate right is Laura Faryna, senior legislative advisor for ITI. On my far right is Kelly McLaughlin, legislative counsel with the Department of Justice. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. Welcome to the witnesses. I will now open the floor to general comments on Bill 34. Mr. Testart.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I agree wholeheartedly with the Minister that this is one of the most significant, if not the most significant, pieces of legislations that has come forward that has been driven by this government's priorities and not in response to the priorities of other governments.

However, I think that we have a long way to go until it is world-class. That is because so much of this legislation is dependent on the regulations, which will come after the bill has passed, should it be passed, and those regulations are crucial on how this is going to operate. If the intention here is to create a positive environment for investment, then we need to ensure that those regulations are given the appropriate amount of both scrutiny from this House, but also engagement from Indigenous governments and organizations and from industry and civil society in general. Currently, the bill has no requirements for that. We know that the department has signalled that there will be at least some role for public engagement, at least in the regulatory process, but there is no certainty that that will occur. That is a key concern of mine in reviewing this legislation. You know, I think it's almost too much to ask to say, "Trust government will figure it out," when we have the opportunity to ensure that some things happen by changing statute through amendments, so this is an area of key concern for me moving forward.

As to other issues I have concerns about in this bill, the first would be the concept of zones. I think there is much confusion, both on the side of industry and what we have been told by the department on what zones are, how they will work, what is the policy intention of zones, and how they will ensure we have consistency across our mineral tenure regime in the Northwest Territories. The legislation does not provide much clarity. There have been some amendments that were brought forward, but I think we have to be very vigilant to ensure that there is a standard set for this regime, this regulatory regime, that is reliable, predictable, and effective and that zones are not a way to circumvent that, because, if we have a patchwork of regulatory environments competing with each other in the Northwest Territories, that is not what I think is best serving the public's interest, and, unfortunately, I do not think the bill answers many of those questions. Perhaps the regulations will, but this tool, I think, is one that could put us in a very uncomfortable situation if not managed effectively.

Second is part 5, which deals with benefit agreements. Now, I will say I commend the courage of the Minister to introduce legislation that is the first in Canada to do something. We have heard many a debate in this Chamber about how we cannot do things because the rest of the country has not moved forward on it. Banning genetic discrimination is one example. There was another one yesterday. You know, these are common refrains in this government, that we cannot be the first movers on major policy shifts, so the fact that we are doing that with this legislation is something to be commended. The question is: are we doing it in the most effective way, that does not concern all of our partners?

The committee received a great deal of feedback from industry on this concern, and, when we approached the department to explain what their intentions were with part 5, all the contents for legislated socio-economic agreements and other benefit agreements, the response we got early on was: this section was intentionally left vague. That caused a whole host of issues. I know the Minister is keen to resolve these, and perhaps we will have more resolution beforehand, but I think what is imperative as we close this process is that the government's policy intent is clearly stated in this House and on the public record so there is no confusion when the regulations are developed, because this legislation cannot be something that creates uncertainty, and this area of the legislation is creating uncertainty. All we have are clear signals of policy intent and a hope that that policy intent carries through the regulatory process, where most of these decisions are going to be made. So I still have some pretty significant concerns around part 5, and, if there are no changes today, it may affect my support for the bill.

Another significant issue is around the role of supporting local governments and municipalities in regard to mineral tenure conflicts in the act. The committee felt very strongly that we need to create a place in statute for municipalities to be able to exercise some degree of authority in protecting the public's interest within municipal boundaries and also receiving notice of when work is going on. This is something that has been consistent throughout our consultations on the post-devolution bills, as well. Unfortunately, we are not there with this bill. I spoke about it earlier, when we discussed the committee's recommendations, but, if there is a way to enshrine this in statute, again we are not taking rights away; we are ensuring local governance is sound, strong, and effective, and I think that is another fundamental flaw with this bill that needs to be corrected. Today is the opportunity to correct that.

Finally, there is uncertainty around the role going forward of Indigenous governments, industry, and civil society in the development of regulations, and that is a fundamental concern that must be addressed. So, ultimately, it's a better bill than what we started. I think the government has done its best to answer a lot of these uncertain questions, but, with so much to do with regulations, we need to get very clear answers on the record today, and I hope the Minister and his staff will oblige that. However, I will comment to say that the contentious issues and the inability to move forward in some cases was not for lack of trying. It should be noted that Members, the Minister, staff from the department, staff who support our committee worked very hard on this, and they should be commended for their efforts. It does take a lot. Sometimes there is just no way to move forward on fundamental differences of opinion, and that is where we found ourselves. So we will see how it goes today, but I hope the Minister can at least provide very clear rationale for the areas of concern that I have with this bill. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair R.J. Simpson

Thank you. General comments on the bill. Mr. McNeely.

Daniel McNeely

Daniel McNeely Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, too, am glad to hear the Minister's address and feel in support of those comments and add mine. Mr. Chair, I comment on today's largest piece of legislation faced by this Assembly on post-devolution. As we modernize history in the spirit of balancing Indigenous engagement, stakeholder confidence, environmental concessions and protection, and the remedial process, it comes to the point in telling ourselves: do we society all stakeholders and produce valued legislation? Looking at the legislation that is going to govern the industry and looking at the industry itself and the huge presence of benefits by industry in this territory has over the course of our deliberations on the last four years have really given me a different perspective on the length of benefits created by industry's presence.

The Northwest Territories natural resource sectors are bedrocks of foundation of our economy. Our mining sector in particular is widely recognized as a global destination for mineral investment, as identified by the recent Fraser Institute report. The Abacus 2016 report identifying 86 percent of the Northwest Territories residents say that the mining sector is important to the economy, while 82 and 83 percent say regulation works well and would like to see more projects. I am confident that number will go nothing but higher given the fact that we are modernizing legislation.

Now, Mr. Chair, we have the benefits of our northern supply chain vendor system, a system that includes businesses and residents. As I mentioned earlier, this mining industry and the supply chain is truly the backbone of our economy outside of the PFF. At a time of global economic situation, drafting legislation and supporting our regulation regime is our responsibility, a post-devolution responsibility I personally take seriously, knowing the benefits of its production. On the federal level, the mineral legislation, particularly Bill C-69, has been welcomed by the Mining Association of Canada, which sees it as an improvement on the status quo. The status quo is not sustainable for Canada nor the NWT, where we have mines coming to an end and a few options to replace them. It is my hope that Bill 34, the Mineral Resources Act, will provide greater certainty to the mining industry on how to operate in the Northwest Territories, ensuring that our economic foundation remains firm.

I add those words, Mr. Chair, and look forward to making history on modernizing our Mineral Resources Act in confidence that we are providing confidence to the industry that we recognize there is a big economic driver in our Northwest Territories and the huge amounts of benefits provided to individuals, businesses, and government. Thank you, Mr. Chair.