This is page numbers 1593 - 1652 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was money.

Topics

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. We've heard discussion of monthly variance reporting from the Minister of Finance on the COVID secretariat mentioned this evening, and there has also been a lot of discussion around ways to reduce the cost of the COVID secretariat. What type of communication with this side of the House does Cabinet see happening in order to make sure that those cost reductions are actually happening and that this side of the House is being included in that conversation? Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Chair, I would direct that over to the Premier if I could, please.

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Premier.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. What we've done already is we've provided I believe it was AOC committee with a paper that talks about what we're doing now, going out and engaging with the stakeholders, the municipal and Indigenous governments, et cetera, to ask about the isolation centres. That work happened last week. It's happening this week. What I can commit to is, once we compile those results, which will be in the next couple of weeks, I'm pretty sure, it will go through Cabinet. Then I'll be offering committee a briefing, or we will provide the information to committee. However, at any time, if committee wants to meet with me weekly or monthly on it, I am more than willing to meet with committee, as well. I think it's important that we work together on this. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Premier. Member for Kam Lake.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I am wondering if Cabinet is willing to publish a list of exemptions to the public health orders that are happening across the Northwest Territories, of course, leaving out people's personal information, but just so that people across the Northwest Territories can see what types of exemptions are happening, both in the business community and for personal individuals, as well. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the idea behind that suggestion. I can tell the Member that the Department of Finance, and me as Minister of Finance, along, of course, with the Premier and the Minister of health, do meet regularly, weekly, with the Chief Public Health Officer. What I will do is commit to raising that at the next meeting, having brought this forward here and being responsible for bringing forward the supplemental. I will commit to raising it and getting back to the Member as to what the response is, but I am concerned that that might not be as easy as just saying that we'll excise personal information and be able to share everything. There is individual information, family information, businesses. It may be simple, and there may be a simple solution. Before I can go any further, I need to check with the Chief Public Health Officer. I will make that inquiry and get the response back to the Member. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Member.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. One of the concerns that we hear from the business community is that, sometimes, ProtectNWT is contacted by the public because there are different exemptions that are happening in businesses that aren't well-known by the public, and that creates a lot of volume within ProtectNWT and then creates a lot of frustration within our communities from the public at large who feel that different businesses are not upholding public safety. I'm wondering if Cabinet or the Minister of Finance or the Premier would be willing to help businesses communicate their capacity, for example, or the rules of operation within COVID restrictions in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member. Minister.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is an excellent suggestion, and I can assure the Member that that conversation has already been held with the Chief Public Health Officer. It certainly is something that has come up, if not with the Business Advisory Council, then certainly in other circles where I am responsible for maintaining liaisons with. Essentially, it is to demonstrate or to show compliance with the Chief Public Health Officer, so businesses need to be able to demonstrate that they are complying with an order or an exemption, or whichever the situation for them might be, so that people, when they are attending there, know that they are attending somewhere that is safe and is being monitored and is monitoring the situation with COVID-19. As I said, I know there have been some discussions, and I think there is still some work being done on what those options might be. I will make the same commitment that I'll raise that again, see where that is at, and see what options can be brought forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Minister. Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2020-2021, Department of Health and Social Services, COVID secretariat, not previously authorized, $31,677,000. Member for Monfwi.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Masi, Mr. Chair. [English translation not available.] Mr. Chair, I move that $8.277 million not previously authorized be deleted from the Health and Social Services operations expenditure for COVID secretariat in the Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2020-2021. Masi, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. The motion is on the floor and is being distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Monfwi.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Masi, Mr. Chair. I feel it's important I speak my language, in summary, because this is a very delicate, sensitive matter in my region. [English translation not available.] Mr. Chair, towards this motion that I have submitted. I have been listening to the Members across the floor and here, as well, Regular Members, and different analogies have been read out. I like taking notes from Members when they speak so I can use their words, as well; similar to the Premier. Either we fight the fire or create a secretariat in the North. We must listen to the people. We only have limited resources. We are high in our debt limit. One forest fire, that is all it takes. If that were to happen, obviously, it's common sense, the forest fire would have to be a priority, not the secretariat.

Mr. Chair, the federal funding of the $24 million give or take, we are not telling the federal government to take it back as the Premier alluded to earlier. Whenever there is a free money, obviously, we like to take advantage of it. This is federal contribution of $24 million towards the COVID-19, not necessarily towards the secretariat that the government is pushing their agenda here. It's earmarked towards COVID-19 to offset the costs of COVID-19 but not necessarily to establish another bureaucracy within this GNWT. It needs to go to the overall coordination to deal with all COVID-19 in the Northwest Territories. What we are telling people here today, Mr. Chair, is secretariat is good for you. We are dictating to our own people of the North. We are not listening to them.

Mr. Chair, our government kept us safe since March. It did it in a manner respectful of our rights. It did it in a fiscally responsible manner when it first started, working with existing staff, shuffling our limited resources to where they were much needed. It came at a price in terms of overworked employees and a stressed-out system, but the GNWT made it work and kept us safe, Mr. Chair. Regrettably, at some point in the story, it also turned sour. It's at this point in the story that GNWT stops acting in a fiscally responsible way. It's at this point that GNWT stops making proud of our government and Cabinet that is calling the shots. Cabinet decided on a radical, unsustainable, unjustifiable approach.

Mr. Chair, they invented a model, a secretariat, completely new to this country of Canada, a model that no other Canadian jurisdiction dared to attempt, Mr. Chair, from Ontario, with over 15 million people, down to tiny Prince Edward Island. It decided to reinvent the wheel. What is this novel, untested GNWT approach, Mr. Chair? What our Cabinet wants to do is establish a totally new governmental department. They call it a secretariat, but that is only to minimize what they are doing, which is to set up a totally new government department, a totally new bureaucracy that reports directly to the Premier. The term "secretariat" is just a disguise. What's the price tag for this new department of COVID, Mr. Chair? It's a whopping $87 million today, but it could be far more even within the next few months or years.

Mr. Chair, just think of what $87 million could do for our people of the Northwest Territories. It could build 300 homes for homelessness. I have spoken to numerous times overcrowded Northerners. It could construct three new addictions treatment centres here in the North, plus six badly needed community health centres across the North. It's also equal to 100 new classroom teachers employed over the next five years. Mr. Chair, it also amounts to a cash grant for 500 struggling northern businesses to the tune of $200,000 per company. Just imagine. That could be an economic boost to our businesses in the Northwest Territories if we invest in those businesses.

Mr. Chair, instead of reinventing the wheel, there are other more productive, more useful things government could do. The government could focus on human cost, on social distancing rules and isolation requirements. I am talking about the loneliness, separated families, emotional stress, depression, substance abuse that we are faced with every single day. Mr. Chair, instead of more bureaucracy, Cabinet could focus on the costs of locking down the borders. That is where the COVID-19 is coming from, southern jurisdiction. Lock it down. It could be more establishing new isolation centres, assisting unemployed performing artists, creating work for hundreds who have lost their jobs through the COVID crisis. Instead, Mr. Chair, we are building a monument to the Premier's vanity, a secretariat bureaucracy wasting our taxpayers hard-earned dollars.

Mr. Chair, I can go on and on, but I am going to close off with saying: give us mature, intelligent, decision-making, Mr. Chair, not a new burdensome bureaucracy, not a Taj Mahal that I referred to earlier. Mr. Chair, when the supplementary request for the secretariat comes before this Assembly through this motion deleting that item, I hope my fellow MLAs will give it a reception it deserves. They must say no to the excessive, irresponsible spending of this government. They must say yes to a safe Northwest Territories led by decision-makers free of panic and fear, northern-made solutions with northern input at the beginning of this whole crisis and where we are at today. Mr. Chair, that concludes my opening remarks, and I will have more when I will conclude on the motion. Masi.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to express some frustration. That is the first I have seen this motion, and it's moving to remove $8,277,000. I also am proposing a motion to move $5 million. The Minister of Finance just recently said we are picking random numbers. I have some questions about what this random number is as opposed to my random number. More to the principle of the motion, I do not agree with the things MLA Lafferty just said. I am in support of the COVID secretariat. I am specifically trying to remove money from the isolation centre costs because the projections for that and what I believe we will actually do do not line up. It's a weird situation where there is one motion to remove money and I am also proposing after this motion to remove money. I, ultimately, due to the fact that I support the COVID secretariat and disagree with the principle behind this first motion, am not in favour of it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member. What I would ask anybody speaking to the motion is that you actually speak to the motion in front of you and not the one that may be coming up. Thank you. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I know it's been a long day and long evening, but I am concerned with some of the remarks that I heard. I think I do not support personal attacks on the Premier. This is not about the Premier's vanity, and I do not accept those kinds of remarks being made in the House. I just don't think that they are appropriate.

This is not another bureaucracy. This is continuing functions that have been going on since March, April, May. This is not a new bureaucracy. This is continuing the efforts of our government attempting to respond to a public health emergency. This is unprecedented. We have a pandemic. We have a public health emergency on our hands, and I take at face value what my colleagues on the other side have said, the Minister of Finance, the Premier, in terms of demonstrating fiscal prudence with monthly variance reports, that there are efforts underway to reduce the cost of the isolation centres, which are the major part of the cost in the supplementary appropriation for the COVID secretariat functions. I'm not dictating to anybody what happens with this pandemic. I accept what the Chief Public Health Officer has done to date in terms of keeping us safe or keeping our residents safe.

Everybody's entitled to their own views about whether they support this funding or not. I'm not dictating to anybody, and I don't believe that Cabinet is dictating to anybody how we respond to the pandemic. A lot of this has been done quickly, and I think it has kept our residents safe. I commend Cabinet and my colleagues on this side of the House for working together through a lot of this. It hasn't always been easy, but I think we've found reasonable compromises and grounds to work together in the interests of all of our residents.

I had hoped that if people on our side have concerns or issues with the cost, that there would be more specific suggestions around ways to reduce them, and I think some of us have brought some of those ideas forward. If you don't like the management function performed by the secretariat, say so, and move to remove that, or the communications function. There's a number of things here that I'm just not prepared to compromise on things like border controls, ProtectNWT, the self-isolation centres. We'll be watching very carefully. We'll continue to put pressure on my Cabinet colleagues to find, to save funding for those functions.

At the end of the day, how much is public health worth, $8 million? I'm sorry. I'm prepared to spend that to invest in the health and safety of our residents. That's what this is about. We're not approving $87 million here. This is about funding for the COVID secretariat functions to the end of this fiscal year. Next year, all bets are off. I'm hoping that the pandemic is over by then. We're being asked to approve an additional $8 million tonight, and I'm ready to do that. I'm not prepared to support this motion, and I would hope that colleagues, when speaking to this, refrain from attacking individuals that are here in the House. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, MLA for Frame Lake. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you. I'm getting a little tired of people policing what other people say around here. If people want to speak to their opinions, then they should be allowed to do so. I think it's up to us to have to sometimes point out hard things and truthful things to the public and to each other, so I defend my colleagues' right to speak to however he would like to.

I agree. I don't think that $8.277 million is going to be the "make it or break it" for the safety of our people. I recently spoke to, and will speak to probably before the end of session, the circumstances around the last cases that came up around COVID. Nothing about what I've seen around the secretariat or the HSS's handling of the COVID cases gives me any faith that spending an additional $8.27 million on it will actually improve things. If anything, I think it's just throwing good money after bad, so I won't be supporting my colleague's motion here. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member.