This is page numbers 1593 - 1652 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was money.

Topics

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Question's been called. Sorry. Member for Monfwi.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Chair, I'm not sure how Members feel that this is not an important matter. We're talking about $8.7 million here. New money. If nobody else is going to speak to it, I want to close it off by saying that this has been an ongoing issue since March, and then the secretariat came in in August. We need to have a coordinated approach. We always have that at the beginning, and I felt that it was the best approach amongst other departments.

The Member alluded to me attacking the Premier. It's the Premier's job to defend the government. I'm asking and I'm pointing facts to the Premier. I'm not attacking the Premier personally. I'm attacking whoever the Premier's position is today. That's our job as MLAs, holding the government accountable. For that kind of money, we're going to throw at creating more jobs. Member says it's not a new department. It's a new established department. We never heard of it five years ago.

Mr. Chair, it's been stated in the House, as well, how much is one life worth? We have people dying on the streets. I can say that over and over. As soon as we walk out of here, we see people begging for homes, begging for food, and here, we're just going to pass $8.277 million like it's nothing. I have issues with that. I have people begging and pleading for housing, homeless people in my riding. We have lack of treatment services here in the Northwest Territories. We don't have any treatment centres in the Northwest Territories. After-care program lacking. Mr. Chair, it's very frustrating sitting here, but I just want to state my case that we're going to be voting on a motion here today. Obviously, the public will see how everybody votes today.

I just want to highlight some of the areas where I stand. Mr. Chair, I stand here before you in principle of this motion. The right thing to do for our territory, we should be redirecting that $8.2 million from the secretariat, the new money, to a co-investment fund or others that are highlighted, homelessness, housing, healthcare. It just makes sense, Mr. Chair.

Today, obviously, I will vote for housing for our most vulnerable, our homeless population in the North. I will vote for housing units which is the state of emergency across the North. That's a real story here. I vote for more treatment facilities, services, after-care programs, on-the-land programs. We are losing lives. As I stated earlier, over the weekend, I lost another young individual my son's age. That's hurting, Mr. Chair. It's hurting the community. It's hurting me as the representative for a region. We need to turn our attention to them. Let's save their lives. Their lives matter more than the secretariat.

Mr. Chair, I just want to close off by saying: I will not be, obviously, voting for the whole COVID secretariat supplementary that's before us, the $31 million. We must think about our most vulnerable people in the North. I'm not sure how else I can convince the Members, but they've already made up their mind. I'll be voting for the people of the North, to vote against the secretariat establishment, the $31 million plus overall next four years of $87 million towards the secretariat. That money should be better off spent elsewhere, where it's badly, badly needed. We hear it every day. We address it in the House almost every day. This secretariat just appeared, and it's before us now. On that motion, Mr. Chair, I would request a recorded vote, so I'd like to know where people stand, either with the government or for the people. Masi.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Recorded vote has been called for. All those in favour of the motion, please stand.

Recorded Vote
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Deputy Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

The Member for Monfwi, the Member for Great Slave, the Member for Deh Cho, the Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Recorded Vote
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

All those opposed to the motion, please stand.

Recorded Vote
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Deputy Clerk Of The House Mr. Glen Rutland

The Member for Nahendeh, the Member for Sahtu, the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, the Member for Hay River North, the Member for Kam Lake, the Member for Frame Lake, the Member for Yellowknife North, the Member for Yellowknife South, the Member for Range Lake, the Member for Yellowknife Centre, the Member for Thebacha, the Member for Nunakput.

Recorded Vote
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1643

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Anyone abstaining please stand. The motion: four in favour of the motion; 12 opposed to the motion; and no abstentions. The motion is defeated.

---Defeated

Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2020-2021, Department of Health and Social Services, COVID secretariat, not previously authorized, $31,677,000. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that $5 million not previously authorized be deleted from the Health and Social Services operations expenditures, COVID secretariat in the Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2020-2021. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member. Motion is on the floor and is being distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion. MLA for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll start by saying that I feel kind of silly that this is the second motion to remove what I see as somewhat of a random number from the COVID secretariat. I believe I have to bring this motion to distinguish from the previous one -- I'm not sure if I'm allowed to speak to the previous one. Sorry, Mr. Chair -- In that this is just me doing my job as an MLA. I believe the projections of what we're going to spend on isolation centres and what we will actually spend don't line up.

This is an attempt to give clear direction to Cabinet and to the Chief Public Health Officer that we need to save money in that area. I'm going to express a little frustration with the way that supplementary estimates are brought forward in that there is just one line item here for $31 million, and if I could bring forward a motion that was $5 million against the isolation centres, as my colleagues have said, if you're going to cut something, specify what you are doing. That is what I'm doing. I'm trying to save some money on the isolation centres as I believe this money could be better used for our communities and for vulnerable persons.

Unfortunately, the way that supplementary estimates work, they are just one big $31 million bundle. In general, the $88 million supplementary we have in front of us is the majority federal money. I'm happy to see we're getting that federal money. I'm happy with this Cabinet's response to getting that money. I'm happy with the COVID secretariat and the Chief Public Health Officer keeping us safe. I just believe there will be savings in the isolation centres and as a Member of the Legislative Assembly I don't like approving money that we won't spend. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member. To the motion. Member for Hay River North.

R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Rules of the Legislative Assembly, Rule 63 states that a formal motion that has been defeated cannot be introduced again in the same session. Essentially, we've just defeated a motion to remove a set amount from the bill. We just introduced another to remove a set amount from the bill. We could go through this dollar by dollar millions of times, so I don't believe that this motion is in order, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Does anybody else want to speak to the point of order? Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member raises a very valid point in that we can't simply keep bringing motions that reduce an amount by dollar by dollar because that could then be used as a tactic to delay. However, this is $3 million, which is a significant difference. The first motion was to remove all of the GNWT's portion of the COVID secretariat. This is a different amount. I believe that there is some room within the rules to bring a difference of $3 million. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. You're going to remember my riding before the end of the Assembly, I'm sure. Look, I want to defend my colleague's right to bring forward another motion for a reduction. I think the rationale for the reductions is quite different than the previous motion. I want to support his ability to bring it forward. That doesn't mean I support the motion itself. I would hope, too, that we're not going to end up in a game of bringing forward further amendments to arbitrarily reduce this line item in the supplementary appropriations. I think Members would lose patience in that. I'm prepared to go with whatever ruling you bring forward, Mr. Chair, but I think it should be considered a valid motion because the rationale is quite different. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member. To the point of order. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I too, would like to support this. I believe that the intent of this motion is different than the last and the messaging is different than the last. I think that is important. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member. To the point of order. At this time, we will take a five-minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

We will call the committee back to order. I have reviewed the relevant section. I am satisfied that the motion is sufficiently different, and I dismiss the point of order. We will resume debate on the motion. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the sentiment of my colleague from Yellowknife North in bringing this forward. I feel that I have got sufficient commitments from the Minister of Finance that there is going to be regular financial variance reporting that is going to allow us to monitor. I will hold their feet to the fire in terms of expenditures of funding for COVID secretariat functions between now and the end of the year. I take the Premier's commitments at face value, again, that a process has been started to look at ways to reduce the self-isolation centre costs and to reduce the mental and social anguish that is associated with self-isolation, as well. I am convinced, with those commitments that have already been secured, that there are going to be very serious efforts towards reducing the cost and that there are also going to be additional efforts found to increase federal funding for these COVID secretariat functions. I appreciate the sentiments of my colleague, but picking an arbitrary figure of $5 million, I think it is quite arbitrary. I say that with all due respect to my colleague. It could have as easily been $6 million or $4 million. I just don't accept picking an arbitrary figure like this and reducing the budget for these important functions in that manner, so I will not be supporting the motion. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member. To the motion. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I said earlier when I was speaking that necessity is the greatest inspiration for change. I think I totally messed up the quote, and it's actually, "necessity is the mother of invention." Same point, that we need to be innovative, and we need to inspire change to happen. We need to be constantly looking for ways to work smarter. One of the reasons that I like this idea is that, although I do believe that there have been some fair and significant commitments made from the other side in order to be constantly looking for ways to work smarter and including us on this side of the House, one of the things I like about this motion is that it forces the government to come back and ask for money when they run out. It allows us to then, at that point, re-evaluate how the COVID secretariat is working and to be able to be reflective of, hopefully, the positive changes that have been made to how the COVID secretariat is running. I would support this motion. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Member. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife North.