She's as passionate as I was in the last Assembly.

Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The 100 units that we're forecasting, I want to do 24 units going forward. I know that looking at can we exceed that amount; 100 units is what is forecasted and, looking at the federal funding that is available to Indigenous groups and to people across Canada who are able to access, if we were to have $1 million, and we're over that $1 million, we're only going to build two duplexes; but, if we have $1 million and we have Indigenous group stakeholders that have entered into the co-investment fund and a $500,000 duplex and the Housing Corporation is only putting up $100,000, then that gives me the incentive that we have enough money to go across the Northwest Territories. If I can work in partnership with the Indigenous groups and with the stakeholders throughout the Northwest Territories, I would like to stretch that money as far as we can.

I think the other thing is that, going forward and looking at the community plans that we're developing, you did have some comments on what style of houses and what units are we constructing, those community plans are going to give that information to the Housing Corporation. Based on each of the communities, I want the communities to tell the Housing Corporation: this is what we need. We could go in and we could build single units, three-bedroom units, but is it adequate for that community, depending on what it is that they want and what they want to see going forward?

The other thing is that, a lot of people who have their current units right now, they are looking at homeownership and repair; homeownership, home repair, seniors aging in place. We do have programs that support that. So, going forward, depending on what the region, what the communities want, would be the style of units that are going to be going into each of the communities in each of the regions.

The other thing I really want to emphasize is I want to tie it in with education and training, as well. These units are going to be stick-built. I want them to create employment in the communities, and, going forward and looking at that initiative, it gives a lot of independence and a lot of hope for our community members and throughout the Northwest Territories. Also looking at homeownership is the ultimate goal for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. I would like to see people own their own homes, access our programs. Advertisement is key, as well, as I want people to know the types of programs that we have, because I feel that they need to reach the needs of the Northwest Territories.

The programs are already existing. I see that they are adequate. Coming from a smaller community, I get it; I see it. I know what it's like to be living in a home where there is no plumbing, there's no furnace, and whatever, but going forward I also know what it's like to become a homeowner and the pride that you have and the skills, as well, of maintaining that home. So, going forward, the priority for the Housing Corporation is homeownership. I would like to emphasize that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation. I know you're passionate, but can you try and keep your answers shorter?

---Laughter

Would Madam Premier like to...? Okay, Member for Hay River South.

This one, you can just say yes or no. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm kind of confused here, now. We're talking about 100 units. Is that 100 units based on developing and receiving funds through Indigenous groups, as well, or is that just 100 units based on GNWT dollars; just on GNWT dollars, yes or no?

Madam Premier.

Yes, it's GNWT only. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Thebacha.

I like the idea of the increased homeownership. I'd like to see the terms of reference that you're going to put out and if there is going to be a means test, you know, or is it going to be that you're just going to turn over the home to the individuals? Because, you know, I was thinking about this. Most of the people in housing, public housing, are Indigenous, and, as you know, Salt River did a program with the Government of the Northwest Territories, but there are a lot of other people. I want to make sure that we don't make it very difficult for the home ownership, the increase in home ownership. You have to make it so that they don't fail. Sure, there has to be a means test; sure, you have to make sure that they're able to pay for the utilities, and there are lots of people in that category.

I think that it's very important that the Indigenous governments are involved. In Fort Smith, it's Salt River and the Metis Nation, the Fort Smith Metis Nation. I think it's extremely important because it's mostly our own people who are in those houses, so they have to have input into how distribution takes place. I think that we could be very innovative and business-minded, like Rocky said. We could get more units built; like, if you have five designated for Fort Smith, or 10, we might be able to make it 20. You know, Fort Smith is always open to new ideas and to make sure that we get as much as we can.

The other thing I want to mention, though, is we also have to have support to develop the reserve. We have no developed lots on reserve. The water and sewer in the lift station is a must on the Salt River Reserve. The federal government is not taking ownership for this to happen. I'm sure that you had discussions with the Chief of Salt River, Mr. Poitras. I fully support and always will support the development of that reserve. It is all in place. Everything has been done. It is just a matter of them signing the papers, saying that they're going to go ahead with the development of the service lots, the 30-some lots on reserve and the lift station so that they can move forward. Salt River has the ability to move forward, and so does the Fort Smith Metis Nation. I have a lot of confidence in the Indigenous people of Fort Smith. If we all work together to make it happen and distribute equally, I fully support your initiative.

Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, there would be a means test, although I want to clarify. Sometimes means test limit. Low income people can't get into housing, so I am going to be watching that as well very closely because, if someone's making $87,000, I think in Yellowknife, you use 87,000, the philosophy is that they deserve to be in public housing. I never made $87,000 in Yellowknife when I was living in my $40,000 shack, so I need to make sure that, just because people are making less than that, that our government doesn't penalize them and say, you can't do it, because I think people can. We cannot set people up to fail, so the terms of reference have to be really good within that.

I think that it's important that we need to work with our Indigenous governments. Salt River, its former chief, was a great example of what we can do when actually the GNWT and Indigenous governments do work together to provide housing for people. As for the support to the reserves, it's something where we've talked to the federal Ministers already. We will be talking to the Prime Minister. It was just an introductory meeting, not as in-depth as I would have liked. As we move forward, it is something. It is not acceptable that we have two reserves in the Northwest Territories and that they are not getting the same services as the rest of the reserves in the south. I do not accept this, and I think that we will continue for this government to advocate that the reserves in the Northwest Territories get recognized by the federal government, and get the funding that comes with reserves in the South. In the meantime, I will not turn a blind eye to supporting of people on reserves. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Thebacha.

It's okay to talk, but I want to see it in writing. I think it's very important that it's written, a letter is written on behalf of the reserves, both reserves including Salt River, that the development of the reserve of the water and sewer in the lift station is supported at Salt River. Hay River has water and sewer on their reserve, but we don't. It's a new reserve, and that's part of the implementation of the reserve. There are no lots available for building houses. It's a very important part of their development, and I think that we have to ensure that happens. It's a great asset, not only for Salt River, but for the entire community of Fort Smith. Anything that happens within the community is good for everyone. I want to make sure that this happens. You can talk about it and we've done that. I want to see it in writing, that the Minister gets a letter saying that you support this, and carbon copy the Salt River Reserve and myself.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will commit to providing a letter that I will share with both reserves. Give me a little bit of time. I want to meet with the reserves first to make sure that it's the letter that they want because we are talking about advocating. Once we've met with both reserves and we know what we're going to bring forward to the federal government, I will stand beside them in that battle, and then we will provide a copy, as long as the reserves, I'm being careful now, agree that we can open it up, and we will provide a letter. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Thebacha.

I have no other questions. Thank you.

Thank you. If there are no further questions on the increase number of affordable homes and reduce core housing needs? Seeing none, the committee will move to page 8. Settle and implement treaty, land, resources, and self-government agreements. A reminder, Members, we'll do one round and have ten minutes. Member for Thebacha.

The settle and implementation treaty, land, resources, and self-government agreements is extremely important for the development of the Northwest Territories. We all talk very loosely in our discussions around the table of ensuring that Indigenous rights are respected, Indigenous people are looked after. We have to sort of walk the talk.

I am very passionate about the subject. I am going to go back to the two outstanding. One implementation is the Salt River claim, the outstanding claim of the NWT Metis Nation within my area, and the Dehcho claim, the Akaitcho claim. I mean we could go on and on. I wonder if the will is really there to settle. I've often wondered if the people that are actually settling the claim from Indigenous Affairs, the negotiators are actually the ones that we should really be using. Sometimes, I wonder if they really understand what's on the table. I think that it's extremely important that we do not be barriers to settling these claims and these implementations so that our people could move forward with everybody else instead of waiting for social assistance or public housing and all these other things that we seem to be a burden to. I think that it's extremely important that we understand that the federal government also could be a big barrier.

Ever since devolution, the more I heard around the table when I was at the table with Indigenous governments is that the main barrier since the lands have been turned over in devolution, that we have been a big barrier. That's got to change. The mandate has got to be put forward in good faith. Meaningful negotiation has got to take place. The negotiators that go to the table have to understand where everybody's coming from and mediate through those claims in good faith. I don't see that happening. People are still coming to me, and I have chiefs phoning me all the time because I know them. I sat with them. I saw their struggles. I saw the way they tried to help their people and how they feel. When you settle these claims, it's going to be a benefit to that community and to the Northwest Territories, just like the way Salt River has done, even though we have no support for the implementation.

It is very dear to my heart because being there in leadership for 10 years, anything you do with the settlement of a claim has always benefited not only Salt River but all the community. Anything you develop supports the whole community. We don't have to depend on government all the time. You're more self-sufficient. I did wonder how you're going to be able to ensure that this actually happens.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Madam Premier.

Thank you, Madam Chair. That is why I didn't commit to settling every single one of them. They have been on the plate, some of them, for 30 years. We have committed to doing business differently. Like I said, I have talked to the Indigenous governments. I have met with a couple of them now. I have been saying the same thing I said in the House the other day. I have been telling them, "I don't see us as federal government, GNWT, and Indigenous governments. I see us as federal, GNWT, and Indigenous all working together at the table." I talked about meeting with them after because it has only been negotiators at the table. I feel that the Premier wasn't there enough. Every single bilateral that we are having now is going to have a time with the Premier and the chief alone to talk about negotiations, a more intense struggle.

I can't commit that it is going to work, but what I can say is that we did have one Indigenous government that was backing away from the GNWT and saying, "We are not working with you, period. We are only working with the federal government." Talked to them, and they are back at the table. That says if we had an Indigenous government that was saying, "We don't want anything to do with you," and now they are saying, "We are willing to come back," and that chief told me he said, "Because I worked with you when you were the housing Minister, and I trust you." I know it is not a lot to go on, but I think relationships are key when you are working. That is all I have to offer, the honesty and the relationship that I carry forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Thebacha.

I think it is extremely important that if the negotiators who are appointed do not work out with the actual people at the table in that particular claim or whatever that they have the option to ask for someone else who actually understands land claims and mandates and the implementation of a claim because many times we have these people who do not understand where we come from. You struggle with wording. You can have an "and" here and a "the" there, and it is entirely taken out of context sometimes, even in the implementation. The fellow sitting beside you understands where I am coming from.

When you are passionate about something and you are held up especially by lawyers who do not understand where a First Nation is coming from, it is a process that is unbelievable, disgusting, and not in good faith. I just want to make sure we as a government are going to move forward to ensure that the mandate is there in good faith to ensure that these claims and these implementation of claims are settled. The good example for me is always Salt River. They signed the claim in 2002. It is 18 years, and they have not come to an agreement and they are not recognized as a reserve within Canada. That is unbelievable. I am not going to ask any more questions, but you have to know where I am coming from. Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Madam Premier.