This is page numbers 887 - 916 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 903

Steve Norn

Steve Norn Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Marsi cho, Madam Chair. Committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 30-19(2), Main Estimates 2020-2021.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 903

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Thank you, Mr. Norn. We will resume after a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 903

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Good afternoon, Members. Today, we are going to continue our review of the Department of Health and Social Services budget. When we left off yesterday, we were talking about the section on out of territory services. Are there any additional questions on out of territory services in the Health and Social Services budget? I think that's beginning about page 175 of your document. Are there any additional questions on out of territory services? Sergeant-at-Arms, could you please escort in the witnesses. Will the Minister of Health to again introduce her witnesses, please.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 903

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Today, I have with me Deputy Minister Bruce Cooper and Ms. Mathison. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 903

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Thank you, Madam Minister. I have on the speaker's list the Member for Monfwi. Please go ahead.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 903

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Masi, Madam Chair. [Translation] Thank you, Madam Chair. Page 180, that's what I'm referring to, about the English term, when we say addiction treatment centres, meaning that, for the treatment, they would be able to be sent to Edmonton, but last year, according to the record, there were 191 sent for treatment, and that spent well over $200,000 on residential, school, and medical services, all together included, but because I don't know if it would be in the same department, I would like to ask about that one. Sending people for treatment out of the territory, is it under Health and Social Services? Would they be able to look into it again? Regarding the 191 people who were sent out of the territory, is it possible that they could be treated or going for treatment here in the territory, because there is on-the-land funding?

We have a lot of elders today who would be able to treat. Our leaders, our teachers, would know how to help with the treatment, but people referring to working on themselves, we are always sending them out of the territory. Let's not do it anymore. Let's have an addictions program here in the territory and have elders working with them. Put them in place. We know they are strong, respecting our elders, and also have an aftercare program, as well, with it. Right now, I would like to ask the Minister: was there ever an issue, topic of discussion, about this kind of treatment being put in the territory? We know how many were sent. That's money that could be spent in the territory. Can the Minister respond to that? [Translation ends]

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 904

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

[Microphone turned off] ...Minister of Health and Social Services.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 904

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

[Translation] Madam Chair, addiction treatment centre [English translation not available] [Translation ends] I hear where the Member is coming from in terms of looking at doing something closer to home, including our elders, including our residents. Right now, within the department, we provide funding to all the Indigenous groups to have an on-the-land fund. In terms of the addictions, have we thought about that in the past? I am going to ask Mr. Cooper if we have thought about that previously.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 904

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 904

Cooper

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, in fact, there had been four different residential addictions facilities in the NWT over the years. The last facility closed in 2013, and that is when the department signed contracts with southern providers. At the time, the thought was that using southern providers would provide for more specialized treatment, more choice for people. To now, our focus has been on southern facilities that we have certainly heard issues around aftercare. Certainly, the experiences that we have had with the COVID response and observing the impact on people through the disability council initiative has caused us to consider this issue of: what could we be doing here in the North to add onto the on-the-land that we've been doing, and might there be other opportunities to look at a treatment centre? It is certainly something that's not off the table. It is something we are going to be looking at as a range of options to incorporate lessons learned out of COVID.

I do think it is important, notwithstanding the challenges that exist with aftercare and housing, we do have about 70 to 75 percent of people who attend treatment in the South in our current model who do return here sober. We have been focusing a lot on efforts to make sure that this gets maintained and they continue to get supported. All that to say that we are, absolutely, open to the idea of looking at a treatment centre, and we'll be taking a look at this question, and different treatment models as part of our planning forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 904

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Follow-up question, Member for Monfwi.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 904

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

[Translation] Thank you, Madam Chair. About the treatment, when we speak of treatment, sending people out to Edmonton, it has been seven years now in the Northwest Territories. There is no addiction treatment centre with us right now, but we know we have an agreement with Edmonton or Alberta for the treatment of our people. When can we have our own program, an agreement, on-the-land program within our region? We all need the treatment. We want it very strong so that we get very strong elders. We know; we lived here; we grew up with elders and how we respect our elders when they speak to us. However, what we are going through in addictions of all sorts, alcohol, drugs. If we put it all on the side, we are strong enough. We would be able to take their words and go with this after-treatment program.

When we speak of it, I am not really in favour of sending people out. They come back; there is no aftercare program. I have to say that again for our young man that we have lost recently. What happened to him? When I look at it today, it's a very heavy issue. It's very important that we share it. How come we don't have treatment on our land in our home community? We lose a lot of people to addiction. It's not very healthy one way. I would like to see programs within our regions. On-the-land programs are very important. If it's under them, it would be very powerful.

When we send them away, out of the territory, for treatment, when they come back, what do we see? We don't have an aftercare program. We also spend a lot of money going out that way, but if we have it within our homeland, we would have the control of being funded. Right now, if it's out of control, we would be able to control it from here. When they are out there, we don't know what's going on. We don't really know what they are doing with them. Again, I have to say, we don't know. When they come back, they are back to square one with their addiction. We see that.

This is why I am repeating this, especially in my home community, my region. How many weeks now that we have lost all sorts of people, young and old? I have to continue. I have to be very strong and do whatever I can for my people. It has to be fixed. It has to happen. Right now, I would prefer to have a motion. Justice Department, ECE, they have to be able to be working together. This is why. Are the Ministers able to work together and have a proposal together and say this is what they can do for our homeland so it can be done? Is it possible that would happen? I know it's not going to happen right now, but when we leave now, when we come back to the table in the fall, we would have something in place. It would be the beginning of having a discussion and very strong to have this treatment for our people. Thank you, Madam Chair. [Translation ends]

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 905

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Our condolences to the families of those who have died in your region as a result of their addictions. I am going to turn to the Minister now for her response.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 905

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, I apologize, too, for what the Member's family has gone through as a result of mental health and addiction. Right now, in the territories, we have the Mental Wellness and Recovery Action Plan, which supports the 19th Assembly's priorities, which is increasing the number of culturally respected, community-based mental health and addictions programs, including aftercare. Some of the key activities in this action plan include reducing wait times and increasing access to counselling services by establishing access to e-mental health options, enhancing supports and aftercare options for individuals who are recovering from addictions, as well as developing a GNWT problematic substance abuse task force, which includes developing a territorial plan on alcohol. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 905

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Thank you, Minister. Any further comments, Member for Monfwi.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 905

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

[Translation] Masi, Madam Chair. Just a short form. I would like to just say to the Minister what is written in front of her, she is reading, but most of the time there's no follow-up. I'll have to say what happened to my home or my region. If we had actions about what we have, it would be good. Right now, I'm asking the Minister if she would be able to say: let's have a strong after-care program proposal. It's not only for communities, because I know, I hear, in other regions, they have all these issues, this problem like the Tlicho community, see if she would also work with them. In the short form, I'd like to have her to work with PSEA so that this after-care program would be strong. Thank you. [End of translation]

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 905

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 905

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I hear the Member asking our department to work with the Tlicho government and the residents in terms of how we come up with solutions to better enhance some of our programs so that we can deal with mental health and addictions. That is something our department will look into. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 905

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Thank you, Minister. Next on my list, I have the Member for Thebacha.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 29th, 2020

Page 905

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to make some clarifications with regard to addictions. I, too, in my region, have a lot of mental health issues, and I had deaths in our region due to addictions. I respect the Member from the Tlicho. He is asking for more monies put into on-the-land, but I want to make sure that the option is still there for members to have the proper addiction facilities available for treatment, because the addictions facilities that are being offered in southern jurisdictions, especially Poundmaker's, is very much on the theme of Indigenous people, when they go to addictions. I'm quite familiar with all of these, because I've had Poundmaker's do complete addiction courses and whole things at Salt River, on reserve. They were six weeks long, and a whole team is included, psychiatry, psychologists, and these were all Aboriginal people.

To me, addictions also includes getting into what happens, why they are in this situation, and on-the-land is part of that for the after-care, and I respect the Tlicho Member's statement. I think that on-the-land doesn't have enough monies allocated to it, and I think that's something that should be looked into in future, but in treatment centres, most of the time, most treatment centres have addiction doctors who go there, and they balance the whole thing even with the pills and what is needed to offset some of these addictions. You know, these are big costs and, for the amount of money we spent, I was surprised at how little it was, for 191 people who went, because that would have cost us much more in the long run.

I'm just pointing those out, because I'm always about getting the best for the members of the Northwest Territories, and I want to make sure that the after-care is also in place. I mentioned that yesterday. I'd like to see you think about that, Madam Minister. We had a great discussion on this in past times with all the Aboriginal groups about addictions. We spent a whole day on it one time with all the leaders. It was very informative for me because, like I said earlier in my comments, almost every household, no matter if it's Indigenous or non-Indigenous, no matter of race, no matter of colour, no matter of religion, there is always a problem in almost every family, and it's something that each and every one of us has to face. Anonymity is very important, also. We live in a small territory. Anonymity and privacy are some of the things that we discussed in the last couple of days, and I think that anonymity is extremely important when we make some of these big decisions. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 905

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Minister.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 906

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. I hear the Member's concern about being anonymous. I mean, right now, there is so much stigma attached to mental health. When people hear about going to treatment and going to get some help, there is that stigma attached. We need to get away from that. We need to start thinking about: how do we rename or how do we get away from people thinking it's wrong to go to treatment? It's not. You're going there for help, and I think that's important. I hear what you're saying. Sorry, Madam Chair. I hear what the Member is saying, and I totally agree.

On-the-land programs are important; they are key. Right now, our department spends $1.8 million with partnerships with Indigenous groups so that they can start to deliver on-the-land programs, and I think that's important. I mean, every Indigenous group in the territory is diverse. We have First Nations, Metis, Inuit, and it's all culturally relevant. They deliver programs based on how they want to heal their residents and their people. Thank you.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 906

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Thank you, Minister. Do you have a follow-up question, Member for Thebacha?

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 906

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

No, Madam Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 906

The Chair

The Chair Julie Green

Thank you. Are there any other comments or questions on this section? Mr. Jacobson.