This is page numbers 4953 - 5010 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I just wanted to make a few comments about the bill. I am very much live to the criticisms and concerns that are being raised here. They certainly were raised when we had the opportunity to appear in front of committee. And in my view, Madam Speaker, this is a good opportunity. This is one of those times where in consensus government the ability to put forward a bill that does have contentious elements to it, elements that are challenging, that are not easily resolved, going through the second reading and going through the committee process, in my view, Madam Speaker, will actually be to the benefit of this bill.

This was a circumstance where, because of the nature of the situation we were in as placed by the federal government, made it difficult to get information out in advance. The Department of Finance was in discussions with Environment and Climate Change Canada right up until August, which didn't give a lot of runway to go back to committee.

I can say, Madam Speaker, also that, again, there's a real challenge in figuring out the best possible solution in a situation we have been put in. The thing we cannot do, unfortunately, is any sort of negation of the price signal. That's the federal system. So it's the federal government that have taken away that ability to be more nuanced, more targeted in the types of rebates that we offer. By not being allowed to negate the price signal, what that means is that you can't have an at-source rebate anymore, because you're negating that immediate price signal change that you'd have. You cannot have the fuel use rebates. So you can't go to someone's House and say well, this household uses more fuel, this one uses less; the one that uses more gets a bigger rebate. That is considered to be negating the price signal. So that puts us in that difficult of position. Do we make one equitable -- or equal -- not equitable -- one equal payment for all, or is there a way that we can be looking at regional -- you know, regional differences.

So, again, I've already asked that we go back and look at some form of regional difference, not use the equal approach that we have, always mindful that if we don't achieve something that keeps us within the federal parameters, we do wind up going to the federal system.

Madam Speaker, again, it'll be certainly open to committee to consider, you know, simply whether or not this is an approach they want to go to. I will say for the moment, Madam Speaker, the bill is presented as it is keeping us in the made-in-the-North approach because that approach provides flexibility to the Northwest Territories. That approach allows us to provide rebates in some form or fashion. There's no guarantee what the federal system may or may not do. It allows us to provide a rebate system for our industry that is reflective of our industry, specifically, Madam Speaker, the large emitters; namely, the three diamond mines would pay less if they were under the federal system - the output-based pricing system. Under this system, they pay more but they do get the remitter rebate program where they would have the opportunity to access funds to reduce their GHG emissions. And at this point, Madam Speaker, it provides them certainty on what that's going to look like and not have to change systems. And it also allows us, again, Madam Speaker, the flexibility to look at future development and what that might be, which might not be the same as the large remitters we have today. The federal system isn't going to give us that flexibility. So a number of reasons that I'd like to keep us in that made-in-the-North approach, but the made-in-the-North approach, like many other things in the North, can be flexible; it can be adaptable; and it can be a product of consensus government. So there's no reason to think that there can't still be modifications to this bill.

I do appreciate, as I say, my colleagues' comments. I do hope that committee can look at ways to better be more responsive to the needs of residents, in particular, who are facing the costs -- the rising costs that will result from that and if the approach of being equitable across the board is not one that is considered to be the best, I do look forward to having that conversation in some further detail working with the Department of Finance to see what we can do to keep ourselves within the box that the federal government has created for us but one that still gives us the flexibility and the room within that from using a made-in-the-North approach. So I do look forward to this process. I hope my colleagues do take it out for their process, and we'll move forward from there. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Member for Thebacha.

Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I too don't like the Carbon Tax Act, and I know it's being kind of shoved down the throats of all Northerners. The most vulnerable population are the ones that are going to be affected by this mostly, and everybody in the Northwest Territories. And I'm willing to go with the second reading but I have a lot of -- a lot of situations within my own constituency that are pending, and one of the ones is the -- you know, the Public Utilities Board is doing a review of electricity in the community of Thebacha. And we have the NTPC expansion project near our constituency and yet they want to increase our rates by 20 percent over two years. And those are unreasonable wants by the NTPC board and the NTPC establishment. And, you know, but I also am in favour of greener energy and there's no more greener energy than hydro. And that expansion is going to be good for the whole Northwest Territories, including Yellowknife.

I don't understand how some of my colleagues could talk about environment and all these other things and not understand that the best energy possible, for greener energy, is hydro; not all these other things that come about with the mini whatever. Those end up costing more. You either do it on a big scale and look after everyone or you don't do it at all. And that's the way I feel. And we have to be also considerate with the, you know, talk about larger remitters. A lot of those larger remitters are employing a lot of people in this territory. And, you know, we have to be open for business. We're never going to balance any budgets here or anything else if we are not open for business. The business community is suffering in the Northwest Territories. And, you know, we always -- it's easy to criticize larger business, medium businesses, and smaller businesses. And, you know, we have to see -- look over -- have a look overall at what we're deciding when we're considering this Carbon Tax Act. And I know that it's not good for no one. And how we can get that message across to our federal partners is something we're going to have to look at. And, you know, the Minister mentioned something about having a look at some of the conditions and relaying those messages, and I think those messages have got to be relayed, because it's a major problem for each and everybody in this room, outside our -- all of our people that we represent and especially the vulnerable population. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the principle of the bill. Member for Monfwi.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I too will not support this carbon tax, you know, especially now, especially now with my constituent -- many of my constituents are struggling as it is, with high cost of living and with fuel price increase in many of the small communities. So there is a lot of struggling happening right now. I know that. I am aware of that because I come from a community -- from small communities -- from a small community in the region. So this is an additional burden for my people so I will not support this carbon tax at the moment. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the principle of the bill.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Deputy Speaker

The Deputy Speaker Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining?

The motion is carried. Bill 60 has had second reading and is referred to standing committee for further consideration.

---Carried

Second reading of bills. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters. Bill 23, Bill 29, Committee Report 36-19(2), Minister's Statement 264-19(2), Tabled Document 681-19(2), Tabled Document 694-19(2), Tabled Document 723-19(2), Tabled Document 747-19(2), and Tabled Document 748-19(2).

And Members, by the authority given to me by Motion 1-19(2), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hours of adjournment to consider the business before the House. Member for Deh Cho in the chair.

The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

I now call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Mr. Chair. Committee wishes to deal with Committee Report 36-19(2), Tabled Document 747-19(2), Tabled Document 748-19(2). Mahsi, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Mahsi, committee. We will take a short recess and resume with the first item. Mahsi.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

November 1st, 2022

Page 4989

The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Committee, we have agreed to consider Committee Report 36-19(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 2020-2021 Public Accounts. I will go to the chair of the Standing Committee on Government Operations for any opening comments. Mr. Johnson.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4989

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Committee Report was read into the record Friday, October 28th, 2022. The Standing Committee on Government Operations has reviewed the report on the 2020-2021 Public Accounts.

On December 8th, 2021, the Minister of Finance tabled the 2020-2021 Public Accounts. The public accounts are financial statements that show the financial results of the Government of the Northwest Territories for a given year. Each year, the Standing Committee on Government Operations reviews the public accounts. These reviews assess the credibility of the government's financial position and provide accountability for the government's financial results. Put differently, these reviews matter because they ask whether public money was spent prudently and as intended by the Legislative Assembly.

On June 29th, 2022, the committee held the public portion of its review. The committee received briefings from officials at the Office of the Auditor General and the Office of the Comptroller General. Their input was valuable to identify and clarify key issues.

In response, committee developed eight substantive recommendations to improve financial practices and reporting. These recommendations seek to achieve three goals:

  1. Understand and address NTHSSA's growing deficit;
  2. Enhance disclosure on environmental liabilities, resource revenues, and tangible capital assets; and
  3. Make fiscal reporting more timely, frequent, comparable, and digital.

The committee is pleased to submit this report to the Legislative Assembly and looks forward to its consideration. Individual Members may have comments on the report, and I would like to thank the committee and the continued work by the department to improve the public accounts and the Office of the Auditor General for all of their work on this report. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 4990

The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Mahsi, Mr. Johnson. I will now open the floor for general comments on the Committee Report 36-19(2), Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 2020-2021 Public Accounts. Any Members? Not seeing any comments, Mr. Johnson.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Mr. Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Health and Social Services provide detailed reporting and analysis on each cost driver of the Northwest Territories Health and Social Services Authority's persistent operating deficit;

And further, the analysis should quantify how each driver contributes to NTHSSA's operating deficit,

And furthermore, the analysis should quantify, break down, and explain for each driver the difference between.

  1. Budgeted expenses, positions, and programs; and
  2. Actual results.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Mahsi, Mr. Johnson. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Johnson.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. In the NTHSSA -- well, we know their deficit is growing and in the NTHSSA's annual report they tell you some of the cost drivers but they don't necessarily quantify each one of them. We know, for example, overtime is the largest driver of the deficit but we don't know the exact figure. That's not publicly reported. And then we also don't know exactly how much is budgeted for overtime for different parts of the authority and then how much the actual costs are. So I think for each of those individual cost drivers, some better reporting is needed and perhaps some analysis at the end of the day of, you know, if you were consistently going over budget on one of those drivers, whether that warrants an actual budget increase or whether there are solutions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Mahsi, Mr. Johnson.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? One abstention. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Johnson.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Mr. Chair, I move that this committee recommends the Department of Health and Social Services disclose its response to the Office of the Auditor General's 2020-2021 audit observation that many areas of the internal controls need improvement at Northwest Territories Health and Social Services Authority;

And further, the department should also disclose its action items, progress on those action items, and timelines to improve internal controls. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Mahsi, Mr. Johnson. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Ronald Bonnetrouge

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Johnson.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Mr. Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Finance provide a plan with timelines to enhance reporting on the Government of the Northwest Territories environmental liabilities dashboard by matching reporting practices in the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat's federal contaminated sites inventory. Thank you, Mr. Chair.