This is page numbers 3947 - 4016 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Deputy minister Strand.

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Strand

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. So yes, you're right. ITI's main responsibility here is because of the act and the anchor within the act, that that's how we collect the funds. As I said, we have six board members of which we have a GNWT representative, which is ITI for one, two industry members, two public members, and the chair, which is ENR. And also we do pay, as I mentioned, compensation for an ENR salary to do the work that the fund entails. So it really, I guess in a lot of ways, is a good partnership and largely implemented by ENR. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that answer because, yeah, I actually think this is a great example of what we are actually trying to move towards, and I've often thought are we -- you know, it's not just me, but having discussions around, you know, we tend to have departments and then certain things are slotted into them but if we truly want to change to -- to not having those silos, you have to kind of look at the issue and then put the people around it, and that -- we talk about that when it comes to people, and I think it's the same thing for the economy. So I would actually like to see this type of a scenario -- and I think when I hear the Ministers talk about the ADM working tables and things, I think that's also somewhat of a similar model to how this might work. And I think it's a great way to check and balance between the interests of industry and the environment.

So can the -- perhaps the Minister speak to are there others where this type of model is in the department already or something similar to this that we could also look at as an example? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of ITI.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. The one that comes to mind, the remediation economy work for example. So this is an ENR lead, and I don't want to go too far down the road. But it's -- because it is an ENR lead but it's one where I know both departments have worked fairly closely together. Similarly, the work around Reimagining Closure, which is not a GNWT project at all but to the extent that we participate in it, I believe that one is Infrastructure and ITI are the leads there in terms of being able to participate and respond. I mean, you know, the art strategy, sort of not quite the same area, but again very much ECE and ITI are involved. And economic development, you know, on wood pellets and the opportunities around forestry, again very much ENR and ITI working together on that. So one -- Canol Trail's another one where we've got tourism but there's a significant ENR portion involved there. So there's actually quite a number of these initiatives. Like I said, I -- if I'm not mistaken, Minister Thompson and I have now set up ourselves quarterly meetings just given the amount of things that we seem to have overlapping one with the other. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Great Slave.

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Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you. I, again, also appreciate that answer because I think that's exactly what we're striving to do here, and I appreciate the Minister's efforts towards being collaborative in that way because I think once we get into the departments and we have our -- you know, our sort of focus and the work we're doing, it's very easy, and even in this job, to get very tunnel visioned. And when you get into the echo chamber of only working around people that say the same thing as you, you often miss lots of opportunities and you miss the holistic nature, really, and complexity of the work we're trying to do here. So to me, that -- that's actually really important and something I strive to do personally. So I guess that's more of a comment. I think this is great, and yeah, thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of ITI.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. No, I -- I mean, I -- I'm glad that the message is getting through because I think there has been a history of some departments, particularly ITI and ENR being of different stripes and that simply has not been my experience. And to the extent that that was a belief, I think both Minister Thompson and I are quite happy to dispel that myth. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Did you have any further questions? Okay. Are there any further questions under the information items? Seeing none. Thank you, Members.

Please return now to the department summary found on page 205, revenue summary information items on page 206. Are there any questions?

Committee, I'll now call the departmental summary. Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditure, total department, 2022-2023 Main Estimates, $59,625,000. Mr. O'Reilly.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. Actually, I did have -- if we're going to pass revenue summary, I did have some questions about that. I wasn't quite on the ball here. If I could ask some questions about the mineral revenue summary.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Then we'll go back to that. Mr. O'Reilly, general comments on the overall?

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

206. The minerals, oil, and gas royalties. They jump all over the place, and I guess I'd be interested in hearing some explanation as to why that is the case. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. That's on page 206. Minister of ITI.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, royalties, of course, are tied to the markets and what's going on in terms of what's happening the producers that we have, and certainly in the last two years, there's been quite a lot of uncertainty and reflected both in the -- I just want to get the actuals out to be able to reference them. But, yeah, in terms of not only the projections, which is what you will see in the budget, but also actually in the actuals, that, you know, in 2020, we saw Ekati close, and then other areas had production shutdowns. Even in 2021, there continued to be production shutdowns as a result of outbreaks. And anticipated that things would not go particularly well and then discovering of course that, in fact, the resource sector was responding better than expected. So, yeah, quite a lot of volatility here but, you know, hoping that in the -- as the economy comes back on and that we will actually see doing better than expected in this particular area. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I think part of the issue too is that of course companies only pay royalties when they sell their product, which is I think part of the difficulty with this kind of regime in that it just bounces all over and makes the ability to predict revenues very, very difficult. Is that something that's going to be fixed when the royalty regime is revised? Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Minister of ITI.

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, so the royalty system that's in place right now sees value being paid on -- or sees the royalties being paid on the value. So it doesn't depend on the sale but there are -- it is -- it is not based simply on production numbers. So all of which is to say there are different types of royalty systems out there. We use one. Other provinces or territories may use other or combinations, hybrid systems. And the short answer, Madam Chair, is that is exactly the kind of analysis that we want to engage in over the next few months so that we can determine if, in fact, a different system would be more appropriate in terms of balancing out benefits to the Northwest Territories, both in the form of royalties but as well in the form of growing the sector. Thank you, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.

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Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Yeah, thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, and I -- I think we do need to find ways to make this kind of revenue stream a lot more predictable over time. And, yeah, I look forward to that discussion. We also need to make sure that the Northwest Territories is getting a fair share of the profits from mining and I guess the work that SCEDI has done would indicate that we're not. But let's leave it at that for now and look forward to the debate as we move forward. Thanks, Madam Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there any further questions under the departmental summary?

Seeing no further questions, committee, I will now call the departmental summary. Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditures, total department, 2022-2023 Main Estimates, $59,625,000. Member -- or Mr. O'Reilly.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Madam la Presidente. I move that this committee defer further consideration of the estimates for the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment at this time. Mahsi, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the -- or the motion is in order. To the motion?