This is page numbers 4205 - 4270 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

Topics

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Do others wish to speak to the Point of Order? Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The test is not whether anyone was offended. We are allowed, and in fact encouraged, to say things that will offend people in this House. That is healthy debate. The test is whether it was imputing motive. And I don't believe the statement that if the children in care were white and not Indigenous there would be a whole-of-government approach imputes any motive. In fact, I don't believe the motives of my Cabinet colleagues or any of the people in this House are remotely, you know, racist or prejudice towards Indigenous children in care. I know they deeply care. But that is not how systemic racism works. Systemic racism and systems that clearly in our territory arise out of -- as the Member from Inuvik Twin Lakes stated, arise out of residential schools, arise out of the Sixties Scoop carry on and that I believe it is a simple fact that if all of the children in care were white, there would be a whole-of-government approach.

We are talking about child and family services. We are talking about a very sensitive subject. And Mr. Speaker, we need to be able to talk about systemic racism and stay statement -- say statements like that. I am very concerned if you make this ruling, you hamper you censor future debate in this House about a very key subject. And you take many people in this House who are then afraid about what they are going to be able to say in the realm of child and family services. We need to be able to have frank debate in this House. It is not a matter of offending anyone on either side of the aisle, Mr. Speaker.

I will not apologize. I think apologizing, withdrawing that statement, is bad for democracy and bad for the very important conversation that we need to have. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Do other Members wish to speak to the Point of Order? Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too just want to -- you know, I apologized because the order was ruled in Committee of the Whole so I could continue my statement. And like my colleague said, this is a sensitive subject. We heard stories, and I've lived in the Northwest Territories my whole life and seen this. And, you know, and as -- as an Indigenous woman, you know, you -- you just -- this is my job here. My job here was to be elected to raise the issues of my constituents. And if the, you know, other side doesn't want to hear it then that's their problem. It's not a Point of Order. And I hear what the Premier says. After this is all over and done with, that doesn't make it okay. It's the truth. And I'm not pointing blame at any one of the Cabinet Members. Never was, and neither is my colleague. So I feel that, you know, this is something that maybe the Premier needs to apologize back to us because we are having frank discussions. And if she does believe that this is an issue of systemic racism and we've had, like I said, the TRC, the MMIWG reports that all have discussed this topic, that we all agree with this recommendation. Let's be that change for the Northwest Territories and actually agree together on one recommendation. Let's work together for the betterment for these kids. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Do other Members wish to speak to the Point of Order? Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories has a moral and ethical obligation to root out racism in our institutions. This obligation extends beyond the overt, visible, and obvious acts of hate and violence that we can easily see and condemn. It includes the subtle hidden systemic racism that persists in legislation, policies and practices.

Systemic racism is real. It exists in the Northwest Territories and it exists in our government. Some of our institutions, policies, and practices continue to disadvantage or discriminate against black, Indigenous, and people of colour. We continue to see examples of people facing discrimination based on their national origin, race, religion, ethnicity, and culture. It is an uncomfortable truth but one that we must fearlessly acknowledge and confront if we want to change.

Mr. Speaker, I hope I don't get called on a Point of Order for those words but I can't take credit for them because they are those of the Premier. They were read into this House on March 3rd, 2021 about systemic racism, and this motion is about systemic racism.

I am shaking right now in the sense that I am very passionate about this, and I have a lot of sadness right now because I can see that my colleague from Inuvik Twin Lakes is hurt. So I believe the only apology that is owed in this House is one from the Premier to this side. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Does any other Members wish to speak to the Point of Order? Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I don't really want to say too much but, you know, I accept that systemic racism exists, and I think we all have a duty to discuss it and acknowledge its existence and address it. And I honestly believe that my colleagues on the other side feel the same way. So it's how we do that, Mr. Speaker, that -- that's going to make the difference. And that's, I think, the kind of legacy that we all collectively want to leave.

But somehow this debate and discussion after a long day of some criticism about the budget, budget-making process, somehow discussion has been misinterpreted, miscommunicated as criticism of Cabinet. And that's not what this is about. So I hope that my colleagues on the other side can find a way that we can work together and move forward to finish the business that we have to do today but also really address this issue of systemic racism. It's not criticism of Cabinet. We have to acknowledge its existence and work together to eliminate it. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Do other Members wish to speak to the Point of Order? Member for Monfwi.

Jane Weyallon Armstrong

Jane Weyallon Armstrong Monfwi

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do support this motion as well but I do not agree with the Point of Order made by the Premier.

Yes, I agree with my colleague as well, because we have to acknowledge that systemic racism does exist, and I am a woman. I am an Indigenous woman, and I feel it. I feel every day. It's not just me. Look at those little girls, little boys. They feel it every day. So we cannot deny and or act like there is no racism.

And I do accept -- so what is wrong with saying what my colleague said from Twin Lakes? There's nothing wrong with it. And she is correct in what she said. And child and family service is a sensitive issue for a lot of us. And we cannot deny the fact that there are 98 percent of Indigenous kids in care in the NWT, and that is a crisis.

And also the correctional system in the NWT is overpopulated by Indigenous people. Overall the Canadian correctional system is also overpopulated by the Indigenous people. And according to the Canadian statistics, there are not too many of us, the Indigenous people, and this is the truth. Auditor General also acknowledged that report as well and said that too many of the Indigenous people are in care or are in the child welfare system and are in the correctional system.

So we have to acknowledge there is, indeed, systemic racism exists in Canada or anywhere else in the world. So I do support -- I'm sorry, I do support this motion, and I do support my colleagues when they did make the statement. But I do not support the Point of Order the Premier made.

And I can tell you that the only time that child and family services get involved is when the child is apprehended. And we need to do more. This government needs to do more, spend more on mental health and wellness and try to keep the family together. That's the only way that it's going to work. And we all know why. The main reason why there are more aboriginal kids in care is due to neglect because of drugs and alcohol issues abuse and the social -- socio-economic, poverty, and housing. There's no housing. And in the Indigenous community, there's a high rate of unemployment. That is the truth. We need to acknowledge that there is a systemic racism in the Northwest Territories and within the system.

So that's all I have to say, and I do not agree with the Point of Order made by the -- by the Premier. And I do support my colleagues. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Do other Members wish to speak to the Point of Order? Honourable Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is no doubt that systemic racism exists. I've never said it hasn't existed. And I do think we have an obligation to fight against systemic racism.

So, Mr. Speaker, on hearing from the other Members, perhaps I misinterpreted. I was under the impression that when it was said all-of-government approach would be different if they were Caucasian, I took that to say that this -- that this Cabinet would be -- would treat Caucasian children different than we would Indigenous children. But if that was not the intent of the Member and that it was talking about systemic racism and not attacking this Cabinet, then I would respectfully -- if the opportunity exists, I would like to withdraw my Point of Order if the Speaker allows. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Honourable Premier. I will accept your withdrawal. But I caution all Members to choose your words carefully, especially with such a sensitive topic. And Ministers, choose your Points of Order carefully. This is a place for the debate - the debate of important issues. In this case, a very sensitive one. The people we represent expect us to deal with these tough issues and speak freely in this place.

Consideration of Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters, with Member for Inuvik, or sorry -- Member for Hay River South in the chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Mr. Johnson. First of all, I'll call the meeting back to order. And now you can continue.

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Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hope that the government does declare the situation of overrepresentation of Indigenous children a crisis. And I support the motion. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you. Are there any further questions? Discussion? Ms. Martselos.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Mr. Chair, you know, I've had -- I've been in leadership for 14 years, and I -- when I voted against the budget, I know this is -- it has to do with this too, I voted because I felt I had to do the right thing for my community. I think today we have to have cooler heads and move forward and put these kind of -- the way things have been going on today is unacceptable.

You know, I've sat for 14 years with a First Nation as chief. I've dealt with all these issues with regards to children in care and have gone to court many times across Canada with members from Salt River. And every time I went, I always had the support of either the territorial government, the Alberta government, the BC government, the Ontario government, and was able to make sure the child was put with family members. And that to me is strong leadership.

Never -- there's many times, even in my own life -- and I'm going to explain because I think a lot of people are just getting too carried away with some of the comments here. We have to represent all the people of the Northwest Territories no matter who they are - the good ones, the bad ones, the whatever. And in my life, I've also been married to a white European person. I saw both sides of the spectrum of racism. And I try not to make my decisions only on that issue. And I've carried the Indigenous file all through my life right from my -- from when my father was in leadership. But I also want to make sure that even in the Dene Nation meetings, okay, sometimes I stood alone but you know what, all the leaders came over and would give you a hug or shake your hand even though you stood alone. And we've got to be able to still stand up, rise, and do the best for the people of the Northwest Territories. That is extremely important.

So I just ask both sides of the House to have cooler heads, vote with your heart, and try to move on, you know. And, you know, I have friends on both sides of the House. That doesn't mean that because I voted against a budget that I don't agree with them on all other issues. And with that, Mr. Chair, I think it's time that we vote on the first motion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Martselos. Any further discussion?

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Question's been called. The motion is in order. To the motion -- oh, sorry. Question's been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? Motion carried.

---Carried

Ms. Cleveland.

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Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I hear the words of MLA Martselos, and I think that we knew that going in to this work that it would be very passionate work that committee would get to do together. And I think that it is work that has brought us closer together as a committee. And hopefully from today, there will be stronger conversations between both sides to bring both sides together as well. And I think that there were some hurt feelings here today for sure as far as the conversations that happened and through yourself, Mr. Chair, I respectfully ask that the Premier apologize to Members on this side of the House for the Point of Order rather than hearing out Members in full on what they had to say about the motion. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Premier.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have no problem -- that's okay, Minister Green. I have no problem apologizing to the other side of the House. I believe that sometimes that if we do things wrong, we need to stand up and be strong. And if the Members are offended because I was offended because I thought that they were attacking my Cabinet, then I shall apologize to the Members if that's not what they meant. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Premier. Ms. Cleveland.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that, thank you.

Mr. Chair, the second motion is I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Health and Social Services provide birthing support that is holistic, client-centered, and culturally safe with doula and midwife services staffed in each regional centre. Thank you, Mr. Chair.