This is page numbers 4205 - 4270 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

Topics

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you. Ms. Semmler.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Are you able to hear me? Okay, thank you.

First of all, yesterday I had made comments to the opening -- or to general comments, and my comments didn't show up for the record. So what I wanted to say first was that I want to thank every person that spent the time providing the information to our committee for this report. It was a difficult -- some of the information that we received was very difficult. We were able to hear from families affected. We were able hear from youth in care. We heard back from many different other organizations. And so I'm very grateful for all the information.

I think as this committee, when we were looking at to review this Child and Family Services Act, we wanted to focus on prevention. And the reason we wanted to focus on prevention was because of this first recommendation.

And I want to highlight that this is a crisis. When 98 percent of the children in the child and family services in the Northwest Territories are Indigenous, this is a crisis. If this was the other way around and they were non-Indigenous, this would definitely be a crisis and the whole of government would be trying to figure it out how this happened. But because it's just generational, generational, it went from residential school to Sixties Scoop, you know, and now we got the child and family services, it's just a continuation. This is a crisis. And I am support of this motion.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Ms. Semmler, can you just hold.

Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I take offence to this one. I think that this one goes against the rules of debate, 3.2(3)(i). The comment that the Member stated that the children are Indigenous and therefore it's not as important but if they were Caucasian that it would be an all-of-government response implies faults or hidden motives to another Member; in fact, it implies that the whole of Cabinet would make this a priority and I think that's disrespectful to all of us. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Premier. Committee, we'll just take five minutes.

---SHORT RECESS

Okay, I'll call the committee back to order.

On the issue of the Point of Order raised by the Premier based on Rule 3.2(3)(i) imputes false motives against another Member, I feel comments did cross the line and ask the Member to apologize and withdraw the comments. I recognize the fact that it is a very passionate subject that we're discussing but caution and urge careful language be used. Ms. Semmler.

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I apologize for my comments, and I -- you know, I take back if the Premier or whoever raised the Point of Order, because I can't hear it on this side. So if they would have let me can -- finish my statement, maybe they would have understood what I was leading to. And I was never making it a point that it was this government. This is an ongoing historical problem that we need to raise.

It's the same fight that many Indigenous families have fought for missing and murdered Indigenous women, that it was never -- it was never recognized as a crisis. And until we start to recognize that it's a crisis -- and the examples were used was if it was a non-Indigenous woman, just like you seen in the media all the time, that a non-Indigenous woman goes missing and it's broadcasted everywhere throughout the media. So if that's what this government thinks that I was leading to then, you know, I apologize for that but that's not my intentions, never was.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Semmler. Do you want to continue on talking to the motion?

Lesa Semmler

Lesa Semmler Inuvik Twin Lakes

You know, like I said, this is a crisis. There are 98 percent of children in care. They are Indigenous. We need a whole-of-government approach to change this. This hasn't changed since residential school. Do I have to speak to the recommendations from the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Inquiry? Do I have to repeat what the TRC says? This is the crisis. This is an ongoing crisis. And so yes, I support this motion. And I think everyone in this House should support this motion. Not blaming anyone in this House that they created this. It's just a crisis and we need to come together as a government with Indigenous governments and find a way to resolve this. That is where I was getting to. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Ms. Semmler. Ms. Nokleby.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to say that I support my colleague, and I know that it's a difficult conversation for her.

I also support this motion and the use of the word "crisis" and the need to develop the whole-of-government approach. It was my -- to my absolute shock, as I started this work, that it is 90 percent Indigenous children and youth that are in care and to me that is just reprehensible and disgusting. So I will be voting for this, and I hope as well that my colleagues do too. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you. Mr. Johnson.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If all the children in care were white, there would be a whole-of-government approach. It is absolutely insane to think that is not the case. That is how systemic racism works. We know that. This government has repeatedly acknowledged systemic racism.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Madam Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Mr. Chair, Point of Order on 3.2(3)(i) imputes false or hidden motives to another Member.

I do not accept, Mr. Chair, that if all the children in care were Caucasian that this government would have a different tactic. This government, its Cabinet, this whole of this government is -- the majority of Cabinet are Indigenous. And at no time have we said that we shall punish children because they are Indigenous, that we do not care about our children because they are Indigenous, that we give less services because they are Indigenous.

I do not believe in my heart that we would do any different for our children in care if they were all Caucasian. I believe, Mr. Chair, that we are doing the best we can to provide services. And I believe that the Minister responsible is trying to work with Indigenous governments, has supported the federal government move to actually have the children -- the Indigenous governments take over the care of their children, which is the right thing to do. So I take offence that any Member that says that this would be different from our government if these children were Caucasian is totally offensive, and I do not accept that from any Member. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you, Madam Premier. Okay, I just ruled on that Point of Order. And again, I would ask the Member to apologize and withdraw those comments. And again, I recognize that it is a very passionate subject and I caution everyone to, you know, to be careful in the language they're using and, you know, try and keep things factual. Thank you. Mr. Johnson.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The test is whether a motive is imputed to Cabinet. I don't believe I was imputing any motive. I was stating a fact about systemic racism. I will not withdraw the comments, and I will not apologize.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

We will have a five-minute recess.

---SHORT RECESS

I'll call the committee back to order. Member for Yellowknife North, I have ruled that your comments were out of order. I will ask you again to apologize.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I stated, I don't -- I was not imputing any motive. I believe I was stating a fact. I will not apologize, and I will not withdraw my comments.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Member for Yellowknife North, if you refuse to apologize, pursuant to Rule 3.4(4) I will suspend the proceedings and report to the Speaker who may rule as if it happened in the Assembly. Will you apologize?

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

No, Mr. Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Rocky Simpson

Thank you. Members, pursuant to Rule 3.4(4), I will suspend proceedings and report to the Speaker. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

May I please have the report of Committee of the Whole. Member for Hay River South.

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Committee Report 26-19(2).

During committee's consideration, the Member for Range Lake rose on a Point of Order pursuant to 3.2(3)(i), stating that the Member for Yellowknife North was imputing false or hidden motives to a Member by stating that, and I quote, "If all these children in care were white, there would be a whole-of-government approach. It is completely insane to think that this is not the case. This is how systemic racism works. We know that. This government has repeatedly acknowledged systematic racism." End of quote.

Prior to this exchange, I had ruled on a Point of Order raised by the Member for -- by the Member for Range Lake against the Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes as similar comments were out of order and recognized while Members are passionate about this issue, we must remain respectful.

I advised the Member for Yellowknife North that his comments were out of order and asked him to apologize. The Member refused.

I asked the Member a second time and he refused; in effect, challenging the chair.

Pursuant to Rule 3.4(4), I have suspended proceedings and am reporting these circumstances to the Assembly. Mr. Speaker, I ask that you rule on this matter so that Committee of the Whole can resume its consideration of Committee Report 26-19(2). Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Colleagues, this has been a long session and long day. The topic you're debating now is a sensitive one. It is also very important. Before I rule on this matter, I will allow some debate.

Madam Premier, as you raised the Point of Order, I'll go to you first. Madam Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recognize also it has been a long day. I was offended when the comment came that if these children were Caucasian that it would be different, we would have given an all-of-government approach to it. The majority of our Cabinet are Indigenous. The majority of the Members are Indigenous. And so I took offence to it, Mr. Chair. Then when the second Member stated it again, it was like a slap in the face and so I rose again, Mr. Chair. But recognizing it's been a long day and we have important business to do, I did want withdraw the statement but it was too late because it was already done. My understanding it was already ruled on.

I guess I have no more to say, Mr. Speaker, other than to say that this government cares. It cares about small communities. It cares about making sure the money. And it cares about Indigenous children. And I still stand by that I do care, and all of this Cabinet cares about Indigenous people and small communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's all I have to say.