This is page numbers 5943 - 6022 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

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Committee Motion 394-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 813-19(2): Main Estimates 2023-2024, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 28th

Page 5963

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 394-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 813-19(2): Main Estimates 2023-2024, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 28th

Page 5963

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you, committee. We have concluded consideration of Committee Report 42-19(2), Report on Bill 66: An Act to Amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act.

Committee, we've agreed to consider Committee Report 48-19(2), Report on Bill 68: An Act to Amend the Child Day Care Act. I will go to the chair of the Standing Committee on Social Development for any opening comments. Member for Kam Lake.

Committee Motion 394-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 813-19(2): Main Estimates 2023-2024, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 28th

Page 5963

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, Bill 68, An Act to Amend the Child Day Care Act, received second reading in the Legislative Assembly on November 3rd, 2022, and was referred to the Standing Committee on Social Development for review.

In its review, committee was disappointed to find that the scope of Bill 68 was narrow. That narrow scope made it challenging to propose any full-scale amendments.

It was important to the committee to hear from the public on this bill because the committee is alive to the fact that day care legislation affects families in a real way across the Northwest Territories.

The committee received nine written submissions and six verbal presentations on Bill 68. The recommendations that the committee formulated were in response to a clear lack of trust and confidence in the Department of Education, Culture and Employment.

The committee heard from child care operators. The committee's recommendations also address complaints, appeals, retaliation, and privacy considerations that were brought up by child care operators.

Finally, the committee made recommendations that urge the department to innovate ways to improve the act and the current reality of day care in the Northwest Territories.

I'd like to thank committee for its work on the review of Bill 68, and I would also like to thank the Department of Education, Culture and Employment for its willingness to work with us on amendments to improve this bill. Madam Chair, I'd also like to thank the members of the public that came to committee on a regular basis over the course of this Assembly to talk about child care on numerous occasions. It was very much needed input and an input that we continue to encourage from the public. Individual Members, Madam Chair, may have additional comments at this time. Thank you.

Committee Motion 394-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 813-19(2): Main Estimates 2023-2024, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 28th

Page 5963

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. I will now open the floor to general comments on Committee Report 48-19(2). Do any Members have general comments? Member for Great Slave.

Committee Motion 394-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 813-19(2): Main Estimates 2023-2024, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 28th

Page 5964

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, without reiterating everything that my colleague said, I also found this to be a very frustrating and disappointing bill to work on. I do also appreciate, though, that there has been the back and forth with the department and to try and come to some sort of a solution here. But I can't help be left feeling like this is yet again another instance of where a federal program or a federal idea, federal funding, is being pushed on us without proper advocacy from the government to the federal government to understand that it just doesn't work for us here. And there's been a real sense of division created through this bill between parents and providers, between day cares and day home providers, between the department and the providers. And as such, the minimal effects of this bill, or really what's going to be done by this bill in the limited scope, was not worth the damage, I feel, that it's created here. All I hear daily is of people looking for child care spaces. And then I hear there's supposed to be more coming and this is all going to be great, and it's going to help. And yet daily people are telling me about day homes that are closing or how, you know, as soon as they get pregnant, they need to start looking for someplace to put their child and such. And then I hear not only from providers of day homes but also the day care association itself that this doesn't work for them. So then I have to wonder when the department is making statements that everyone's on board and everybody is good and it's going to really have this great effect, but yet all the people executing the work are telling me that's not the case. I find myself in a terrible position of having to figure out who's telling me the truth and given my history in this House, I think I know who is. So my concern here is by passing this legislation in which -- there's even things around complaint processes that, you know, have nothing to do with the federal funding in which this bill was put through under or that was sort of the impetus for it. So when I see that the department is looking to establish a quasi-judicial type system that allows a GNWT employee at a director level to be making decisions about people's livelihoods, I feel it's a very gross overstep of government reach. And I also look at it like when I look at who the providers are, it's women. There's many women of colour. With allegations of that coming from the department as well, that there's been specific targeting of people. You know, I just have to look and question why we're even talking about this bill at this point. Yeah, so I think I'll wrap it up there. But I feel that this has been a, I would say, a complete failure of a legislative process. And, yeah, I'm disappointed with it. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Committee Motion 394-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 813-19(2): Main Estimates 2023-2024, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 28th

Page 5964

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there any other general comments? Member for Frame Lake.

Committee Motion 394-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 813-19(2): Main Estimates 2023-2024, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 28th

Page 5964

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Thanks, Madam Chair. I don't want to speak too long about this but I think part of the issue here was we were one of the last jurisdictions to negotiate an agreement with the federal government, and when it was signed, I think it was in December of last year, and of course one of the objectives of the federal government was to try to reduce fees for parents, try to institute basically some program of $10 a day child care across the country. And given the timing of the agreement when it was finally signed and the need to get these caps or try to meet the federal objective, it led to I think some poor communications and sense of service providers being told what they could do.

So on the one hand, they're being told that they could not raise revenues. And then the next step was to actually try to improve the situation for staff and the training certification, the pay grid for them. And those are all good and noble things but if you're an operator, all you can think about is gee, now I'm going to have pay my workers more. So they're being squeezed at both ends in terms of the revenue and then being told that you're going to have to spend more money and there's no consistent or even clear messaging that support for the service providers is actually going to be increased in any way to try to compensate for being squeezed at both ends. And I think there was a communications failure. And I think some of it's related to the timing of this but some of it -- now we're in a very difficult situation of trying to do everything at once, and the bill that came forward to committee is very limited in scope. As the chair said in his -- maybe not even the right way to try to rebuild some trust and confidence amongst operators and between operators and the department.

I do want to commend the department and staff for working very hard to try to rebuild some of that working relationship and trust and confidence. And I know that they continue to do that work. But it's a very difficult situation for parents, families, and the providers when there doesn't seem to be a lot of certainty for where this is all going. So I think we really need to improve communications. They probably need to devote more resources in terms of staff within ECE to this function as well and work more collaboratively with the service providers, and I think some of the recommendations are really aimed at trying to address those bigger issues and concerns that are -- go well beyond the scope of the bill. Thanks, Madam Chair.

And I -- sorry, I do want to thank the committee for all their hard work in trying to find ways to address the concerns and issues that were being raised, even if you couldn't -- if they couldn't -- they didn't have the ability to address it through legislative change, the recommendations I think try to find some creative ways to address some of these issues and come up with some solutions collaboratively with the department and the Minister. Thanks, Madam Chair.

Committee Motion 394-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 813-19(2): Main Estimates 2023-2024, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 28th

Page 5964

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. Are there any further general comments? Seeing no further comments, Member for Kam Lake.

Committee Motion 394-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 813-19(2): Main Estimates 2023-2024, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 28th

Page 5964

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, do you want me to wait until the motion's distributed to my colleague.

Committee Motion 394-19(2): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 813-19(2): Main Estimates 2023-2024, Carried
Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 28th

Page 5964

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Yes, just give him a minute. All right. Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories

  1. Form an advisory group, including representation from all parties;
  2. Review the 2030 Early Learning and Child Care Strategy on the inclusion of child care operators in goals and visions;
  3. Establish and share a Northwest Territories vision and mission of the early learning and child care sector, including principles and explaining where the federal child care agreements fit, requiring five-year reviews to check if the Northwest Territories is fulfilling its vision;
  4. Conduct an independent review of the rollout of the early learning and child care agreement;
  5. Conduct an independent review of the Child Day care Act; and,
  6. Address the crisis of confidence by reconciling with the Northwest Territories early learning child care sector and starting with improving communication by increasing responsiveness to clients and establishing client service standards and committing to explaining processes to the public before implementation providing plain language materials and designating communication channels for operators to access early childhood education specialists and information.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment improve and provide clarity on how a person may complain about an organization's service to the public by

  1. Providing guidance material for the complaints process to support parents and staff; and,
  2. Developing a policy on the complaints process.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Great Slave.

Katrina Nokleby

Katrina Nokleby Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. This was what I was referring to in my earlier opening comments. And just that I think that if there is going to be an establishment of some sort of a complaints process and, like I said, would give the staff within the department a lot of sort of control and influence over people's lives, that there has to be some sort of mechanism in place or process in place that everybody can refer to that outlines the investigative process. If we ever were to look at, like, the way that accidents are investigated under health and safety plans, there's a very clear way that you go about doing an investigation and I would assume it's the same in an HR or other type of process. So rather than it being some arbitrary thing in the Act that just gives some random power, the department must figure out a way to ensure that everybody's aware of that process ahead of actually having anything occur that would then start the process happening. Thank you.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories

  1. Provide investigative training to all staff involved in the complaints and appeals processes;
  2. Make this training obligatory for all staff involved; and,
  3. Build competence by ensuring that investigations are not vexatious and are appropriately carried out.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Chair

The Chair Lesa Semmler

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Member for Kam Lake.

Caitlin Cleveland

Caitlin Cleveland Kam Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I move that this committee recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories ensures that administrative decisions are reasonable by considering the outcome of decisions and the process to come to the decisions. Thank you, Madam Chair.