Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do wish to make some comments on Mr. Gargan's motion, although I should say that I believe cabinet will abstain on this motion in that it does give advice to the government. But I would like to reflect some preliminary views of the cabinet based on some opportunity we have had to discuss this very important issue.

Mr. Speaker, as Members know, the Government Leader has already committed on Monday, December 9th, to providing Members with a comprehensive proposal at the next session that deals with the question. So Mr. Gargan's motion today is therefore certainly in keeping with our government's commitment. I would like to acknowledge Mr. Gargan's personal commitment on this very important issue. He is certainly a champion of access to information, access to government, and I would also like to say that I welcome the co-operative approach he has suggested in his remarks and his willingness to give the government and my department the opportunity to work co-operatively with him along these lines. I think we can do so, and I think that the co-operative approach, which was used in preparing the conflict of interest provisions for the last Assembly, shows that on major issues of this kind, ordinary Members can work with the government, with its resources, toward an agreed-on end.

Mr. Speaker, obviously there is, as Mr. Gargan has suggested, increasing demand for greater accessibility and accountability of governments for their actions and decisions. I think it is timely that this issue should be brought forward now, as we are embarking on major challenges in terms of reorganization and strengthening our governments at two levels.

I also believe that we can profit from the debates of the 11th Assembly and the hard work that has gone into the bill that Mr. Gargan referred to today. That work need not be lost as we start a new government and a new session.

I also believe that we began fairly auspiciously toward more openness with the very process that we agreed to, the open process for selecting the Government Leader and cabinet Members. I think that has underscored our striving for a more open government.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to make some further comments on this issue and throw out some ideas, although I do want to emphasize that we will want to take some more time to consider how to approach this issue.

A Look At Needs Of Small Communities Required

In discussing this matter, Members of cabinet felt that it is important to look at the needs of small communities and the needs of residents whose first language may not be the language used in many government offices. For such people -- and most of them are represented in this Assembly there is a majority of Members who do represent smaller communities -- access to information legislation of the kind considered by the previous House could take those citizens to the first step in the process of examining government actions and making the government answer to them. That is, they would get the information and the document.

However, I believe that the majority of public concerns may go well beyond just getting a copy of documents of government papers. Just getting the information may not always necessarily solve the problem or answer all the questions. And getting the information also does not necessarily provide an independent opinion about whether the government has acted fairly in a particular situation. So I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, based on some preliminary discussions we have had, that our citizens may also need some help once they get the information. Perhaps we could, as we look at this legislation, also consider a way in which people from small communities can get further assistance, once they have information, from a person who knows the government system and can speak what I would call "the language of government." Mr. Speaker, I refer to the concept of an ombudsman or an access to government Commissioner, or another name that we may find that is more appropriate to the North. Such a person -- and they exist in most jurisdictions in the country -could be appointed by this Assembly and could report to the Assembly and could be given broad powers to investigate and get access to government information. In fact, Mr. Speaker, if we look at the way some ombudspersons work, they might be entitled to review information which could not ordinarily be released under traditional access to information legislation. In other words, such a person might even be given special powers that might not ordinarily be available to a citizen to assist an individual or perhaps even to assist an MLA.

The other point that I think we should consider as we move to meet the spirit of Mr. Gargan's motion, Mr. Speaker, is the special problem of people who may not speak the language ordinarily used by government. Perhaps we should also look at a way of helping people to request information in their own first language. I think we may be able to come up with some methods that would help remove barriers of language as we strive to give people access to government. Perhaps as we look at the office of the Commissioner for official languages, there might be some way in which we could take advantage of the capabilities that we may be developing in that office to make it easier for people whose first language is not English to ask for information.

So, Mr. Speaker, I throw those ideas out only to give the Members of this House and the honourable Member some idea of the discussions that we have had already in government and some concepts that I have been considering as Minister of Justice. I do look forward to working with the honourable Member whose motion is before this House today to develop legislation in a timely way on a co-operative basis. I would hope that my ideas, floated here today, which I would describe as more along the lines of access to government as well as access to information, may also be considered ways in which the Member's concerns could be addressed as we move forward.

So, Mr. Speaker, I do say generally that the motion is consistent with commitment already in place by our government, and I look forward to working with the honourable Member and other Members to resolve this issue in a satisfactory manner to MLAs and to members of the public. Thank you.

No, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is the first time I have heard of that idea. I wonder if the honourable Member has considered other implications. It may well lead to other groups, for example youth or women, requesting guaranteed representation on hamlet councils. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, as a quick response to the Member's question, I will nonetheless be willing to consider the Member's suggestion.

I do believe that it might be appropriate to seek advice from bodies like the Association of Municipalities, with whom I expect to meet in the coming year, to see whether this is a concern they have about deficiencies in our municipal legislation. But the short answer to the Member's question, Mr. Speaker, is that I will be willing to consider it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, Members have been informed by the Government Leader earlier this week that as a priority the government will be proceeding with a recommendation of the "Strength at Two Levels" report on consolidating the Departments of Health and Social Services. In conjunction with that plan, as the cabinet moves to implement that recommendation, I believe that the proper place of the corrections service will be considered in the course of pursuing that amalgamation.

I have had some very preliminary discussions with the Minister of Social Services about that issue, and I think it is an option we will be considering, but I should say at this point that I have not formed any firm conclusions on that subject, other than to say it is an option that Mr. Whitford and I have discussed and it certainly will be explored as we move to implement this recommendation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am sure the honourable Member will appreciate that I am still just getting familiar with the operations of this board, but I do know that there have been no less than two major reviews conducted of the Workers' Compensation Board by an independent body within the last number of years. Before I agree to the idea of another review, Mr. Speaker, I would like to try working out a satisfactory working relationship with the Workers' Compensation Board and its staff by sitting down with the board, describing the issues as I understand them -- and I have already heard comments from MLAs on some of the problems as they view them and I am open to getting other advice from MLAs and others about issues that should be dealt with. But I would like to try to sort those out by sitting down with the members of the board and seeing if new approaches and new policies can lead to better communications, particularly with MLAs.

I would like to ask the honourable Member to give me a chance to see if I can deal with his concerns. If I find that I do not have co-operation from the board, then it may be necessary to review its status in relation to the government. But I would like to take the opportunity to discuss these concerns face-to-face with members of the board and see if they can be solved in that kind of a co-operative manner, and early in the new year.

Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the fact that the honourable Member had been told by the general manager of the WCB that complaints or concerns about the Workers' Compensation Board should be dealt with by the Minister responsible for the WCB and that that policy was established by the board itself. I am aware of that correspondence.

Mr. Speaker, my attitude is that the WCB staff should be encouraged to respond, wherever possible, directly to MLAs if they have concerns about WCB issues, and that it should only be if the matter cannot be resolved at the staff level that the Minister responsible needs to become involved. That is the way it should work, in my opinion, Mr. Speaker. If that is not how it is working right now, then I will look forward to sitting down with the board. I am planning to meet with them at their next meeting in January and sorting out this arrangement so that problems can be dealt with, wherever possible, by staff dealing directly with MLAs; just as I would hope the board would be equally accessible to members of the public. I am willing to have that policy reviewed, Mr. Speaker, so there are not complications in getting problems solved. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Member for the excellent suggestion. I will take the question as notice and get back to the House as soon as I can. Thank you.

I am not suggesting that, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I am sure the honourable Member does appreciate that the judiciary is a separate branch of the government in our political system. Any Minister of Justice, even one concerned about costs, must be cautious about giving directions to judges about how they should do their work. So I want to make it clear that any

savings on the cost associated with courts and court charters, in my opinion, must be reached through the co-operation of the judiciary and not by any directions coming from the government.

Mr. Speaker, I know that my officials have been discussing this matter of the increasing costs of administration of justice in the NWT with the judiciary, with the RCMP and with the Law Society. I do believe that all of those key elements of the system are aware of the escalating costs and are prepared to take the necessary steps to bring those costs down wherever possible, even in the face of increasing crime rates and in increasing demand for their services.

So all I can tell the honourable Member is that I have yet to meet with all the actors in the system, including the chief judges of the territorial and Supreme Court, but I am aware of those concerns and I am aware that the judges are. The briefings I have had have led me to believe that scheduled services have been used, wherever possible and economic, by court parties in the past year and, in fact, charter costs have been reduced. There are times when it is more economical to use a charter, so the rule cannot be a blanket one. But I believe steps are being taken to bring those costs under control as much as possible.