I can accept what the Member is saying because that is basically what we are doing, which is continuing to work on setting up five committees within the resources we have and using our existing staff. We won’t be able to do honorarium and other things that we would like to do, but using our existing resources to do that. The Member is right; I’m not sure that the legislation requires that the community request it, but certainly we couldn’t get this started without having the interest and participation of community leaders and some focused energy on it. I would like to just ask Dana to give you some information on what our experiences have been in consulting with the communities.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m not familiar in detail with what Justice has proposed. I’ve had a look at it, but I don’t know exactly how it’s funded, so I’m not able to compare.

But I’d like to just reiterate that the department is and has always been committed to working to set up these committees and the one that we are closest to getting some results is Fort McPherson. If the Member’s wish is that we continue to work in that and use whatever resources we have within and the staff we have, the management and the

authorities to do that, then we will continue to do that because that’s part of our mandate and nothing will change, nothing has changed from that. I just thought that the committee wanted us to be a lot more aggressive and including honorarium and doing it differently, because as I said to you, and I’ll be the first to admit, that we have not seen as much results as I think the committee recommendations would like us to see. So if it works for the committee that the department continues to work on this within the existing resources but still continue work on presenting this as a new initiative and go for allocated resources, I could do both.

So I think for some reason somehow the communication was that we are not interested in setting up committees and that’s not what we meant to say. We are committed to setting this up as we see it. To see some real concrete results we do need investments into that initiative. So we will proceed to do that for the next business plan, but if the Member is saying, and I think that’s what he’s saying, is that you should continue to see what resources you can use to see what we can do, sure, of course, we will continue to do that and I have no problem doing that.

I don’t think I need to say to anybody here that almost all programs under Health and Social Services are a bit stretched, whether it’s mental health or anything. But we will use our existing resources to see how we can move forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don’t have anything to add to that. I don’t agree with him, but those are his comments.

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to reiterate that if the committee is happy or it is acceptable to them, that we continue working on setting up these committees as the way we have been and do our utmost to get them set up, I am happy to accept that and we will continue to work on that. We will be obviously using existing resources to do that, but I was under the assumption that the committee wanted us to get more aggressive about it. This is why we came up with a plan. I would like to ask Dana to give you details on how we arrived at these numbers. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do continue to work with Fort McPherson to set up that committee there and part of what I would like to see happen there is to have less children in care in McPherson. I agree with the Member that Fort McPherson has one of the highest number of children in care. So that is a long-term goal and we will continue to do that. I want to make that clear.

We will continue to work on setting up more children and family services committees.

In the communication I had when I met with the committee on the recommendations of the CFSA review it was made clear to me that you wanted immediate action and a lot more aggressive strategy to do that. This is why I’ve said, when we reviewed how do we jump start and get ahead on what we’ve been doing until now, the missing variable is we need to resource this.

I think we should be careful when we speak about children in care, because there are lots of children who are in care who are there because they were neglected or they were sexually abused. They are suffering. While we can talk about preventing and helping families so that children don’t get to that neglect and abuse, the fact of the matter is a lot of children in our care have been abused and neglected.

The long-term work of children and family service committees is to have a community presence, a committee of leaders and concerned citizens who are supported and resourced and who will take on the task of working with families, helping them, working with child protection workers, working with health and social services, working with any other people in the community so that the families are supported, children are supported so that they don’t get into the system. This will take a lot of concerted effort.

Mr. Chairman, I want to say I am committed to doing that. I think Fort McPherson has the best chance of getting ahead of this than any other community, but to do it with five committees, because so far we’ve been relying on our staff and management in the authorities to do it as part of their work. I think we need to create a position that’s tasked to doing this or else it’s not going to happen as quickly and as well as the committee wanted it to happen. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I think the challenge we have here is a timing issue, because the standing committee report came out in October. By then we had gone through the business plan review, the budget was wrapped up in January and presented to the House in February. There was not enough time or space in the budget to incorporate as much as the Members thought that we should. We did accept many of the recommendations but there are pending resources.

The second thing is why don’t you just take 60 kids out of the system and use that money. I’d have to say if any of those 60 kids could be taken out, they shouldn’t be in there in the first place.

I say again what I said to MLA Beaulieu, that I agree with you that we need to make some decision to put the money up front. Children and family service committees in the long run, if well resourced and well run, would work with the communities and within the communities with the community leadership and the community people to take on the responsibilities about how to address child protection issues so that they don’t get into the foster care system. Okay. That is a long-term goal that I agree with. To do that properly I’m saying that we need to at least follow the models that we have that work, like the community justice committees and such.

I know some of the Members say why don’t you just lump up with them, but there are some rules and structures in place that we need to change. We’re talking about changing the way we do child protection, which I agree with, but it is not as easy to just say, okay, just take that money, take the kids out, reduce the foster care payments or any of the residential care and just use that money. I have to tell you that would have a consequence.

And the board money, I have to tell you that we are under a system deficit, so there is not money for me to take out to do this. Thank you.

No, $45,000.

I just want to say that… And I am answering the Member’s question. The business plan speaks of not just the dollar amounts but some of the action items that the department wants to do. Dollars aren’t exactly always attached to some of those action items. It’s a business plan, it’s a blueprint where the department’s going to go, any department’s going to go for next year.

Like I stated before, I think this is about the third time I’m saying it, yes, in the business plan we said we will work to set up children and family services committees, like we have always done before. I am here admitting to you that we have not had success doing that. There were no specific dollars attached to doing that. We said we will continue to work on those. The way we’ve been doing it is we have, from the headquarters, asked the authorities to go out into the communities and work with the communities. The only community that has shown interest so far is Fort McPherson and that’s been going on for about five years. We’re still at a very delicate stage of getting it going. What we have heard on the ground from the people who want it, people who are really involved in Fort McPherson, is that they need more resources and support to do that. They would like some training to be able to work on that. Everyone would like honorarium because they know that in other committees they get money to attend these meetings. We’re just simply identifying that if the Assembly and the department really want to get this on the ground, I need to go before the next budget cycle and ask for some real money to do that.

I think it’s in the interest, actually, of the committee to make sure that to have your recommendation implemented, there has to be some money behind that. There are no contradictions between business plan and what we are saying here. We have always

planned and we do continue to work on setting these up. But I believe in order to do that right, we need to spend the money.

I’m going to ask Paddy, the deputy minister, on what we mean by training the child protection workers. Sorry. Dana.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I clarified that in my letter to the committee and all the Members on February...actually, this morning. The five committees that we’re talking about in the business plan is to do it the way we’ve been doing it, which is to have no money in it. That’s not new. There have been no monies to set up children and family services committees. Okay? So we will continue to do that. But we have seen very poor results out of that.

I want to say, the CFSA standing committee report said that you would like us to get a lot more aggressive and have a more robust program. You want us to set this up, five committees, and make it work. What I’m proposing to you, to make it work, it will take some money, and I don’t have new money in the budget.