Transcript of meeting #2 for Territorial Leadership Committee in the 19th Assembly. (The original version is on the Legislative Assembly's site.)

The winning word was need.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

[Microphone turned off] ...governments and building trust. Trust is not an easy thing. People often use it and say, I have often heard, "trust openly, and then, if it's taken away from you, don't trust again. Slap once, and be careful if you turn your head again." However, I will say that I have built my relationship over the last four years built on trust. I have been very honest in all of our bilaterals. Many chiefs, many Indigenous governments have called me. Many have my cell phone number, which is something I do not give out to everyone. They know it's an open-door policy. I have done things as a Minister, for Indigenous governments, that have not been done before. I am going to give you an example, even though my colleague is standing here, as well. Salt River: never before was there a housing unit put in that community, never before. As a Minister, I said "fairness to all." I was the first Minister to bring housing units into Salt River. I worked with Colville Lake. They are looking at a school. They have gotten some pushback saying, the department saying, "We want to do it on our own." I have given them my word we will work together. Trust is something that we have to build, we have to earn. It's not something that I am going to walk in and assume that we have. People, Indigenous people, have been hurt for many, many years, not only in their leadership but all of the people, so it's something that we have to be conscious with. The biggest way to build trust, in my opinion, is to be open and to be honest. I am not going to promise things I cannot deliver because, if I do that once, I have lost that trust. So I am honest. It is my strength and my weakness, and I think that most of the Indigenous governments know me by now and they know that my word is my honour. That is the most important thing that I can bring. Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Ms. Cochrane. Next, we have Mr. Simpson.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect. When we met with the Indigenous leaders from around the territory last week, two weeks ago -- it's been a whirlwind; I can't really recall when it was; it was recently, though -- there was a strong desire, everyone who spoke had a strong desire, to improve relationships with the GNWT. It was clear that everyone had been frustrated in the past, but everyone saw this as an opportunity to move forward, and we need to capitalize on that. We need to listen and understand why there is that lack of trust, not make assumptions, actually listen, and we have to address those issues. Like I said in my previous speech about accountability, I can say I am going to do a better job, and I am going to be more trustworthy, and I am going to listen more, but what about when I am gone? So what we need to do is put some procedures in place. The same way that the Cabinet and the Regular Members have communications protocols, we need that, those types of things, in place for Indigenous governments because I have heard the frustration that there will be a meeting and then there is no follow-up, maybe for months, maybe for years. Four years is the last one I heard where there was an issue that had just been unaddressed. So every time the government comes back to the table, the Indigenous government has to bring this issue back up again, and that is not acceptable. It's those kinds of things that we need to put in place so that, no matter who is in the office, we can maintain a level of trust. Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Next, we have Ms. Martselos.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect. Being in that leadership since 2007, an Indigenous leader, and then sitting around that table and listening to the Indigenous leaders on October the 17th was quite an experience sitting on the other side because I have lived that. I think the Indigenous people have to have a strong voice in changing the way government thinks. We are the majority of this Northwest Territories, and I take a very strong stand on making sure that all the claims that are outstanding are settled. I also make claim that all the land agreements that are implemented or have not been implemented with one section or two sections, that we ensure that we look at those. I think that it's extremely important that the trust is reinstated by this government. Our Indigenous people is a big file, and I know it thoroughly because I sat around that table since 2007. My commitment to my own people is that this will be done with honesty, with trust, with compassion, and ensuring that the people of the Northwest Territories benefit from all, because, when claims are settled and land agreements are settled, it benefits not only Indigenous people, but it benefits all the Northwest Territories, and then we can move forward to develop the economy. I am very compassionate about this file, and I am sure that you saw that the last couple of weeks. I want to thank everybody for the comments that I was willing to make. Thank you so much.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Ms. Martselos. Next set of question, we have Ms. Thom.

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Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

[Microphone turned off...] congratulations. This question is from one of my constituents from Inuvik Boot Leg. Actually, there was another question on climate change, but that was already asked. The question is: what would the candidates do to support families losing their children to the childcare system because of homelessness and the lack of support for them to care for their children? Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Ms. Thom. First on our list, we have Ms. Martselos.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

This is a big file. I have had the experience of dealing with this issue. Children who are apprehended and are put in permanent care is not the way to go. I think that the social workers work hard to try and keep the families together, whether it be an extended family or not. Many times, there are issues that are pending. I know that I have dealt with this issue many times, not only territorially but cross-border in Alberta and BC and different parts of Canada, because we have members from all over Canada. One situation that I had was in Edmonton. I had to have a colleague of mine and myself sit outside a deputy minister's office for four hours in order to get access because they were going to take a child away from a grandmother. It was a very emotional experience. I know that we waited outside that deputy minister's doors to make sure that we caught her when she was coming out. That's how persistent I was in the whole file, and we were successful.

I think that children are extremely important, and the start of their lifespan and making sure that we don't use the wheel to re-invent any residential school issues. We have to look after the child at a young age and try to keep them with the family and unite them with the family, whether it be extended family or stay with family. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Ms. Martselos. Next, we have Mr. Lafferty.

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Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Masi, Mr. Speaker-elect. This is of interest to all of us. It was one of the priorities, as we said. Whether it be apprehension, foster care, kids being taken away from their family, I feel that, as a government, as we move forward, we need to promote more of an awareness of what kind of programs we have, after-care programs or even homes that they need to go to. One of our first priorities should be families in the communities. If there is not much available in a community, then at least in the region, so they don't lose their language or our culture or way of life. We have heard over and over from our elders, from our parents, from across the Northwest Territories, that their kids are taken away. Even in my region, some of the kids have been taken away for the last 10 to 15 years, and some have lost their language, as well. We need to take that back and deal with it as part of our priority-setting. We have talked about it, and I think that it is very important that we deal with this first and foremost.

To deal with homelessness is another great example there of our most vulnerable. We have so many in our communities now, even here in Yellowknife, our own constituents who are wandering the streets. How can we make our program more equitable and also fairness across the board in the Northwest Territories? The NWT Housing Corporation programs are not meeting the needs of our people, especially the homeless. Let's be creative, be innovative, and let's fix that issue once and for all because we talk about it. Now we should take actions to deal with the most vulnerable people, our people, in the Northwest Territories. Masi, Speaker-elect.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Next, we have Ms. Cochrane.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect. I know you have asked us to speak slowly, but this is a passionate file for me, and I am going to try to speak slowly and try to get everything I need in there.

I came from a family who had serious addictions and serious family violence in the home, and so people think sometimes that that is a horrible story and they need to take that away. The big thing is that we loved our parents. When our parents were not drinking, when they were not physically abusive, they were the most wonderful people in our lives. We learned to hide our secrets. I knew that, if I spoke anywhere out of what was going on in my home, there was a risk of being taken away, and that is not the answer, and so we kept those secrets, and we experienced that violence for many years. We grew up with that violence, and it related in anger for most of us, all kinds of issues.

I spent my career, I moved into social work because I cared about people. Before I came into politics, every AGM with health and social services, I was at their meeting and saying, "What are you doing with these children? What are you doing with these children? Why are the numbers not going down? Why are they all Indigenous? What is going on?" I had my own children, and I struggled through that. I didn't know because of my bringing up, I didn't know how to bathe my children, I didn't know how to feed my children. I loved my children, and I needed help.

Thankfully, somebody reached out to me and I was provided into a women's centre, and they did give me the support. They showed me how to raise and bathe my children and feed my children and take care of my children. Because we love our children. I am now a grandma, and I have a new baby. Well, she is three years old, and I love her dearly. I watched the young parents struggling and trying to make it, and I give them as much guidance and support as we can. Food, clothing, and shelter are basic needs. We should not be taking children away because of those. Those are basic needs. We need to make sure we support them. We need parenting support. We need supports for people.

I want to go into longhouses, the experiences in schools when communities, Indigenous communities, took care of their own. That would take way more than the 21 seconds I have left, but we need to work with Indigenous governments. The majority of these children are Indigenous. Indigenous people have the answers. People say it is residential school if we work with them and we support them, but it is not. Indigenous people need to take ownership and work hand-in-hand. They are the answer.

I am running out of time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Ms. Cochrane. Next, we have Mr. Simpson.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect. This is an issue that cuts across the government, it cuts across departments, it involves housing, it involves health and social services, it involves ECE, and it involves the Indigenous governments. It involves communities, community governments. That is where the Premier's role is engaged here. You know, the Premier doesn't create health policy, but the Premier has to take responsibility. In the last Assembly, we had a scathing report from The Office of the Auditor General about our health and social services system. When there are situations like that, where there is something so fundamental to what we are as people, there is an issue like that, that is the time when the Premier needs to step up and say, "We are going to handle this."

Ultimately, this is something that, even though the Premier isn't going to be developing service delivery policy, the Premier has to stand up and say, "This is an issue that I am going to personally look into, and you can personally hold me accountable for it." That is something we haven't really seen in the past just because of the way our system is designed.

We need to do a better job engaging with Indigenous governments and implementing self-government, and building capacity in communities so communities can draw down the authority to run their own programs because, you know, people in the community know their community. They know the children in their community. They know the people. The government can't do everything. The government shouldn't do everything, and we shouldn't try. We should engage the people who know how to do this type of work. In the role of the Premier, that is how I would deal with the situation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Any further questions? Mr. Bonnetrouge.

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Ronald Bonnetrouge

Ronald Bonnetrouge Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect. Good morning to my colleagues. Good morning to the candidates running for Premier. I have not heard any specific strategies on addressing the issue of settling the land claims nor the self-government agreements in this House. Past Assemblies have reiterated the settling of land claims negotiations as a priority in order to share the lands for resource development and to create partnerships with the Indigenous governments of the Northwest Territories. A statement was made at the 18th Legislative Assembly, stating that they would create an oversight committee made up of Cabinet Members and Regular MLAs to give direction to the negotiating team in order to settle any and all outstanding land claim negotiations. However, that idea did not come to fruition.

I truly believe that creating the oversight committee ensures that this government is serious in settling all land claims and self-government agreements. If elected Premier, what will be your strategy to seeing negotiations finalized for the outstanding claims? Mahsi.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Bonnetrouge. First on our list, we have Mr. Simpson.

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R.J. Simpson

R.J. Simpson Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was a Member of that committee, the Joint Advisory Committee on Aboriginal Relations, I believe it was called. Frankly, it was more of a place where we would go and get briefings from the government about what was going on. It wasn't really a place to give advice on these issues. That sort of exemplifies the type of changes that I would like to see going forward, where we take advantage of all of the skill sets that we have here in this Assembly, and we move forward making informed decisions.

Do I have a specific way that I would advance these claims? There is a lot going on. There are a lot of different tables, and I can't say that there is a specific offer that I would make, but there is definitely a different approach that you can take. Right now, the approach is that the GNWT and Canada make an offer to Indigenous governments, and it is sort of a "take it or leave it." There doesn't seem to be that back and forth. That authoritative way of dictating negotiations is what needs to change. We heard from the Indigenous governments that they want to move forward, as well, and everyone says the GNWT is what is standing in the way. What we need is a willingness to change that. Like I have said before, nothing should be off the table. If it's a whole new way of doing business, if it's new people, then those are the things that we have to do.

The reason I got into politics is because I was tired of people talking and nothing seemingly changing. I have come to realize over the past four years that it is not enough to just sort of inch along here and do things slightly differently. Sometimes a big change is needed, and I think that, to settle some of these claims that have been going on for decades, a big change is needed, and I am willing to do that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Next, we have Ms. Cochrane.

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Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect. I used the statement "win-win" before when we talked about going to the federal government, but we also need to carry that forward when we are dealing with our Indigenous governments. It has to be a win-win situation here. It can't be top-down. It can't be the GNWT making the direction. It certainly can't be the federal government making the direction.

We need to, first of all, build that trust that we have talked about, because the Indigenous governments don't have as much trust in us as we need to have. We need to bring things to the table. We need to be willing to put what we have out there, not "I'll give you a little bit and hope you don't ask for too much." Let's just be honest and put it out there and say, "This is what we have to offer."

The biggest thing that we need to do is we need to change. I keep hearing that it is GNWT and Canada against the Indigenous governments. That is not what I want to hear. We need to start hearing and practising that it is the GNWT advocating for the Indigenous governments when we talk about Ottawa. We all live on this land together. By fostering our relationships, by moving Indigenous governments into their own self-government, we will all become strong as a people. We say that all the time, so why don't we act on it? If we believe that, then that is how we should be walking.

I think that the most important thing that we need to do is actually sit down at the table, more meetings, regular meetings, build that trust with them, put out what we have to offer on the table, and then we need to work together in advocating to Canada. It can no longer be Canada directing the GNWT and forcing the Indigenous people to try to get crumbs on the bottom. It has to start with the Indigenous governments telling us what they want, the GNWT being willing to work with them in a win-win situation, and then all of us advocating to the federal government.

I want to turn it around. Thank you, Mr. Speaker-elect.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Ms. Cochrane. Next, we have Ms. Martselos.

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Frieda Martselos

Frieda Martselos Thebacha

Well, having this file since 2007, every year around our annual meetings, we would hear the same thing: the claims are unsettled. I am very happy to say that it is one of our priorities. The thing that I have been hearing from the leaders of the Indigenous community is that they would like to have a negotiator who understands the claims for all of the outstanding claims and the self-government agreements. In some of the self-government agreements, there are two clauses that are not being looked at. Some of them have one clause that is extremely important to their development. I will ensure that they have a person on each claim who is familiar with the claim, who is Indigenous, for the Government of the Northwest Territories, so that we stop being obstacles to ensuring that those claims are supported, not only with our own government, but are supported to ensure that we get the best deal from the federal government for the Indigenous people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Ms. Martselos. Next, we have Mr. Lafferty.

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Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Masi, Mr. Speaker-elect. This is, again, one of the first and foremost priorities that we discuss around the table. All 19 of us around this building support settling the two outstanding claims. As we stand here, we need to take the lead. We need to make that happen. Enough of this talk; let's put that into action.

The Member is asking what the steps are to be taken. One of the steps to be taken is to go outside of this building and meet with elected officials face-to-face, without any staff there. We are supposed to be giving direction to our staff to start discussions and implementations of such claims to be finalized. Those are discussions that we need to have, put everything on the table, and have a constant dialogue.

We need to have open communication with our Aboriginal leadership. We have heard last week from the NWT Indigenous government leaders that that is not the case. They rarely see government leaders or Cabinet Ministers. We have to improve in those areas. Working relations is very crucial at this point in order to finalize the two claimant groups. It is time that we start listening to our Indigenous leaders across the North. They have told us to finalize it, and we need to start listening to them.

One of the elders' visions, obviously, is being united as one, all 19 of us here with our Indigenous leaders. We need to have one voice going to the federal government, and they obviously will be standing behind us, supporting us. We've heard loud and clear from our elders and from our Indigenous leaders that this needs to be the case, and I, for one, would like to push that forward. Masi, Mr. Speaker-elect.