Tabling of documents. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table Tabled Document 38-12(1), the Task Force on Legal Aid in the Northwest Territories, Report to the Legal Services Board, November 1991. The recommendations of the report have been translated. Qujannamiik.

Tabling of documents.

Item 12, notices of motions. Notices of motions.

Item 13, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 14, motions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a motion on the establishment of the special committee on health and social services:

WHEREAS the people of the Northwest Territories should expect and receive services that they may require to support a healthy social and living environment;

AND WHEREAS attitudes, visions and priorities relating to health, social services, housing, victims' service, elders, justice, correction and parole delivery service models need to be reviewed and updated to meet the needs of residents of the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS delivery of these services is not confined to the Departments of Social Services, Health, Justice and the territorial Housing Corporation;

AND WHEREAS there has been a need identified at the community level to deliver these services in a holistic manner so as not to destroy the social fabric and cultures of people in the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS effective service delivery models need to be developed to achieve the goal of a health social and living environment;

NOW THEREFORE, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for High Arctic, that a special committee on health and social services be established;

AND FURTHER, that the following terms of reference for the special committee on health and social services be adopted.

The special committee on health and social services shall:

a) inquire into such matters as may be referred to it by the Legislative Assembly;

b) inquire into current problems and public concerns about health and social services in the Northwest Territories including, but not limited to, the following: service and program delivery, administrative organization, departmental infrastructure, affirmative action policy implementation plan;

c) present interim reports to the Legislative Assembly from time to time, and a final report by September 30, 1993.

The special committee may, on its own authority:

a) examine all matters that are under the authority of the Departments of Health and Social Services and all legislation, policies and philosophies of the Government of the Northwest Territories in the areas of health and social services;

b) consult with members of the territorial government and its departments, public and interest groups in a manner approved by the committee, including hearings, meetings, oral and written submissions and other appropriate means;

c) recommend changes in existing policy from time to time as deemed necessary. Mahsi.

Your motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Koe.

Mr. Speaker, Members of the Executive Council, fellow Members of the Legislative Assembly, I am pleased to move the motion to establish the special committee on health and social services. This motion is presented partly in response to concerns raised about social service delivery models and departmental administration, and partly in an effort to go beyond merely solving specific problems in isolation. Residents of the Northwest Territories expect and should receive services that are conducive to promoting a healthy life style physically, mentally and socially. We must attempt to deal with social problems in a holistic manner if we are to provide our constituents with a healthy living and social environment. We must promote interaction between departments in the delivery of all health and social services, and not confine or apportion responsibility to one single department. We must go beyond current models and be forward-thinking in our approach to the growing social problems faced by the people in the Northwest Territories

today. We have to be creative in our prevention models while ensuring an effective way of dealing with current problems.

To be truly effective, we have to allow communities to fully participate in the decision-making process and allow them to take ownership of programs. What we ought to be delivering to our constituents is a mechanism by which communities can heal themselves through methods that are tailored to their needs, not the needs of the bureaucracy. We need to hear form the elders and youth and all our people in the communities. We need to build a new vision of social service delivery models based on some of the traditions which our people have used to help the needy. We need a northern approach and this can only be built by listening, and I believe much of this listening has never been adhered to before.

We have the ability to deliver these mechanisms. We have a devolution policy developed in 1988 and recently cited by the Government Leader as a way to be more effectual. We must respond now despite the hard economic times. To simply ignore the critical concerns compounds our problems. What will be the cost, ultimately, if we fail to act now? We need functioning, productive, healthy communities to promote economic growth and to maintain the unique social and cultural fabric of the North. We must afford our communities every advantage to achieve maximum benefits and realize their potentials in this effort.

Here are a few of the issues which the special committee could deal with. Financial controls for social service programs, general administrative and policy deficiencies in the departments, general program deficiencies in the departments, general deficiencies and other aspects of the social safety net which falls outside the specific mandate of Health and Social Services.

Mr. Speaker, we also address the reasons for asking you to support the establishment of a special committee rather than some other mechanism. Public inquiries tend to be costly and often are limited in the scope of issues which can be dealt with. I do not believe it will be the appropriate vehicle for generating public comment on general social problems. A ministerial policy or administrative review can be cost-effective and expedient, but generally limits public participation. We do not need advice solely from within departments through advisors. We need advice and input from communities.

A third option would be to utilize various standing committees to review different related matters. The disadvantage of course is that we fractionalize and limit our review of general social problems. A special committee has many advantages and few disadvantages. All aspects of service delivery models can be addressed in totality. A special committee can consider interdepartmental mandates and provide an opportunity to gather support from the public.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a few comments about what I see is the proposed process. This process should not be that costly, not like other special committees that we have had in the past. We can utilize the services of all the MLAs and many of whom have expressed their willingness to participate in this exercise. MLAs can report at open meetings to the special committee or at meetings in their constituencies or regions. We may be able to set up a toll free line and not all committee Members would have to travel, maybe only a couple in each region.

Seconder to the motion. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member for Inuvik made very good comments and pointed out mostly the items. I am very happy to second this motion, mainly because the government in the North is very new, it was established in 1967 when it moved from Ottawa. We have to understand that our government has to be different because of the cultural differences in the North. It has to be different from southern governments. We have created other special committees. We have to listen to the concerns of our constituents and try to solve the problems that exist here in the North. The special committee on health and social services will be very beneficial to our people.

There are a lot of problems today in our communities on social issues. People try to commit suicide amongst other things. I am sure if we hear those concerns from our people we will try to solve the problems. A lot of times we do not have all the answers. Our constituents may have some of the answers. I fully support the motion, even though it may be a lot of work and require travelling, but we have to hear the voices of our constituents.

I know in the future these kinds of committees will not exist. Once the government is settled we can always go back to what we have tried before. I am very happy that this motion came forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the motion. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Looking closely at the preamble and at the terms of reference proposed by the honourable Member, I have a lot of questions I would like to ask in a less restrictive environment presented by committee of the whole. I think it is a very important motion and I think it is on an issue of extreme important to all MLAs on which we may all have useful ideas to contribute.

I move that this motion be referred to committee of the whole for discussion.

Do you have a seconder? Mr. Whitford. Your motion is in order. A motion of referral to a committee is non-debatable. All those in favour? For the record, to ensure there is no mistake, we will call a recorded vote. The motion is to refer this motion to committee of the whole. All those in favour, please stand.

Mr. Patterson, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Koe, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Ms. Mike, Arvaluk.

All those opposed, please stand.

Mr. Bernhardt, Mr. Zoe, Mr. Nerysoo, Mr. Pudluk.

All those abstaining, please stand.

Mr. Arngna'naaq, Mr. Pudlat.

Supporting the motion, 10; opposing the motion, four; abstaining, two. The motion is carried. This

motion is referred to committee of the whole.

---Carried

Motions. Motion 41-12(1), Establishment of a Tax Reform Commission. Mr. Gargan. He is not here. This motion is stood down.

Item 15, first reading of bills.

Item 16, second reading of bills.

Speaker's Ruling

Before I call the next item on the agenda, I have had a look at the Hansard from yesterday and I would like to respond to Ms. Mike's comments. Ms. Mike was referring to a comment by the Speaker which followed an exchange of questions and responses between Mr. Pudlat and Mr. Patterson. What I attempted to do is, at the end of that exchange I felt that Mr. Pudlat had not been given the answer that he was looking for. What I was suggesting, because I thought Mr. Pudlat was frustrated by the answer, that it might be appropriate for Mr. Pudlat to approach the Minister and explain the details of the particular question he was asking. He could have then been either satisfied or could have returned later in question period and asked the question.

I was attempting to be helpful. I apologize to Mr. Pudlat if my words caused him any problems. I thank Ms. Mike for bringing it to the attention of the Chair. I would ask Members to recognize that I too am learning this job and in an attempt to be helpful I probably did not make myself as clearly understood as I should have. So Mr. Pudlat, I am sorry if I caused you any problems. I was attempting to be helpful. And anything I can do in the future to help Members, and any problems with procedures, I am more than happy to do so.

Next item on the agenda is Item 17, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Ministers' Statement 2-12(1), Living Within Our Means; Ministers' Statement 5-12(1), Community Transfer Initiative; Tabled Document 3-12(1), "Strength at Two Levels"; Motion 40-12(1), Establishment of a Special Committee on Health and Social Services, with Mr. Pudluk in the chair.

The committee will come to order. We have four items to deal with. What does the committee wish to deal with first? Mr. Koe.

I would like to deal with the motion on the special committee on health and social services after a break.

Does committee agree we deal with Motion 40-12(1)? Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

We will take a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

This committee will come back to order. There is discussion on the motion. We are dealing with Motion 40-12(1), the establishment of the special committee on health and social services. This committee wanted to deal with the motion in committee of the whole. Member for Thebacha.