Good morning. Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, I have an emergency statement.

Proceed, Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, I have spent a sleepless night agonizing over the events of yesterday. I want to say to the Members of this House, especially Mr. Bernhardt and Mr. Pudlat, that it was inappropriate for me to send notes to M.L.A.s about a matter under discussion in the committee of the whole yesterday. I do realize that this could well be seen as threatening, although I want to say sincerely to Mr. Bernhardt and Mr. Pudlat and assure them that was not my intent. In fact it was I who felt threatened by the Standing Committee on Finance's actions.

Mr. Speaker, some Members may appreciate that I have been feeling quite a lot of pressure in this House with respect to my departmental responsibilities. That pressure has been affecting me and my family. I also did feel frustrated that, as a Minister, I had no way of speaking out for my constituents, either before the S.C.O.F. or in the Assembly on the matter of the Iqaluit museum.

Sending notes to M.L.A.s was the only way I could think of to allow the interests of my constituents to be known. However, Mr. Speaker, it was inappropriate and I regret having done so. So after much agonizing and consultation with my Cabinet colleagues, although this decision was my own, I have decided that the only honourable course for me is to resign immediately as a Member of the Executive Council.

I want to say that it has been a privilege and an honour for me to serve as a Member of the Executive Council since 1981. I want to thank the Honourable Nellie Cournoyea and my Cabinet colleagues in this 12th Assembly for their support and congeniality. I also want to say thanks to the deputy ministers of Health and Social Services, David Kinloch and Blair Dunbar, their hard working staff, and the Chairs of the Workers' Compensation Board, Brian Roberts and John Hill, with whom I have worked, and their staff, for their hard work and support for me in the difficult issues that these portfolios and assignments have brought. I think we were making some progress and I very much regret having to let them down by stepping down. I also want to thank my faithful and hard working Executive Assistant, Ernie Comerford, my secretary, Geela Qaqqasiq, for their hard work and, most of all, my wife and family who have been behind me all the way. I am grateful for that. They are my most important asset right now.

To my honourable colleagues in the Legislative Assembly, I would just ask that you allow me to participate in the activities on the other side of the House, as an equal. I do not have to be a psychologist to know that there are some hard feelings directed my way, but I hope I will have a chance to redeem myself and continue to participate in this Legislature, albeit in a different way from the one I am used to, to represent my constituents and also to consider the common good of all the people of the Northwest Territories.

I hope, Mr. Speaker, that this action on my part will end the spirit of rancour and animosity that I think has impaired the business of this House somewhat in the past year. I hope we can find ways to work together and show more goodwill than I have felt, at least, in my position on this side of the House. Mr. Speaker, I am taking the course of action that I think is appropriate and necessary and I hope that this explanation and expression of regret will end this matter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to give an emergency statement on the same matter.

Please proceed, Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say to the honourable Member, Mr. Dennis Patterson, that a lot of us have a great appreciation for the long years of service that he has offered to this House as Minister.

Over the last few days, three more important portfolios were assigned to him in a very difficult time. Many of us over the past years have had the privilege of operating a government that had a lot of money. The financial situation across Canada and in the Northwest Territories was much more elastic and allowed us to make many more mistakes and allowed additional resources to make up for some areas we might have missed. However, we are no longer in that situation and we are not alone.

I want to thank Mr. Patterson for accepting those difficult portfolios and doing an excellent job as a Minister. However, we all conclude that in this Legislative Assembly certain actions are inappropriate. We understand that and we have to judge according to those particular actions. What the Minister did was inappropriate, and it was unfortunate because I believe it reflected on a situation that was tenuous in the best of instances. I would like also to say that being a Cabinet Minister is a very important part of this Legislative Assembly and we all get attached to and concerned about the kind of job we do, as this Minister has done.

However, as I said before, it is unfortunate and it was an inappropriate action. I admire the honourable Member for taking an honourable stance and doing the right thing. Thank you.

Item 2, Ministers' Statements. Item 3, Members' Statements. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Members of the western Caucus met Wednesday evening with the Committee of Political Leaders to discuss constitutional development. We all agreed that in light of the 1999 schedule for division, western constitutional development has become a very important issue requiring M.L.A.s and political leaders to work together to ensure that a credible process is established to develop the Constitution for the west.

Western M.L.A.s and the Committee of Political Leaders are working on a common plan and budget for the next stage in this process which we hope to table in this House later in this session. It is also agreed, Mr. Speaker, that the transfer of more authority and responsibility to the communities can and must remain our immediate priorities, even as the work on territorial constitutions continues.

Members of the western caucus have asked me to affirm our continued strong support for the fast and effective implementation of the community transfer initiative in all regions of the Northwest Territories. One caveat on the initiative was registered by the President of the Metis Nation of the Northwest Territories, Mr. Gary Bohnet, who is concerned that the interest of the Metis may be overlooked in some communities or regions. We recommend that the government take into account the concern and aspirations of the Metis in communities when transfer agreements are being concluded. Another issue is finding an acceptable definition of community. Several groups want the definition of community to include regions.

I want to thank the members of the Committee of political Leaders and the western caucus Members for realizing the need to work cooperatively on this vital issue. I expect that this is just the first of many such meetings over the coming months and I am confident that we can set a process...

Your allotted time has lapsed, Mr. Koe.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I expect that this is just the first of many such meetings over the coming months, and I am confident that we can set a process in motion, which ultimately will result in political arrangements for a Constitution for a western territory which is acceptable to all of us. Mahsi Cho.

I would like to take this opportunity to recognize in the gallery and to welcome to the Legislative Assembly, the newly elected Mayor of the town of Inuvik, Mr. Paul Komaromi.

--- Applause

Also, the Deputy Mayor, Mr. Tom Zubko.

--- Applause

Item 3, Members statements, Mr. Zoe.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Item 3, Members statements, Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make a short statement as the chairman of the Nunavut Caucus. Mr. Speaker, the Nunavut Caucus has been meeting, dealing with and discussing the events that are taking place. We are more than pleased to be working with the western caucus. However, Mr. Speaker, we will be meeting with our partner, the T.F.N., shortly. Once we have met with the T.F.N., at the appropriate time and on behalf of the Nunavut Caucus, I will be making a Member's statement. I appreciate the cooperation that is coming from the western caucus.

We have a lot of things in common with the western caucus, such as transportation, and the economy of the N.W.T. I know we are going to have a very good working relationship. According to a statement made by the federal government some time ago, if the native people are not able to work together, then they are not ready to govern themselves. Mr. Speaker, I say we are able to work together and we will be able to work together in the future. We will progress as partners, because we are going to be living side by side and we have a lot of things in common. Thank you.

Item 3, Members' statements, Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I stand to apologize to my constituency. In one of my constituencies a person who was born in 1920, recently died of cancer. I do not have his name at this time, so I cannot mention his name. I wish to send my sincere condolences to his family; he has lived a long life. He used to hunt during the coldest months of winter and he helped a lot of people in Sanikiluaq, so I wish to extend my condolences to the people of Sanikiluaq. I also wish to tell my constituency that we can be given the strength to go forward. Although our loved ones have departed from this earth, we all have strength from God. I am sorry to hear that person recently passed away. However, we will have to keep going in this day and age to work towards our future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Item 3, Members' Statements. Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Whitford.

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Mr. Arvaluk.

I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Gargan on November 24, 1992 regarding the evaluation of education services.

The evaluation of aboriginal language courses differs from board to board. Where the language is being taught as a full-time subject, the evaluation covers all aspects of the curriculum. Children are tested by their teachers, not only for fluency in their language, but for competencies in all the appropriate curriculum skills. For example, a child taking social studies in Inuktitut will be tested in Inuktitut on what he or she has learned in social studies.

In boards where the language is taught as a second language, the children are tested on their ability to use the skills and vocabulary taught to them. The South Slave language is being taught as a second language from Kindergarten to grade nine in all schools in the Deh Cho region. For the specific evaluation techniques used by the Deh Cho Divisional Board of Education and DehGah School, parents should approach the principal directly.

At the high school level, each board has developed a challenge exam that is administered, usually by employees of the board's teaching and learning centres. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 4, Returns to Oral Questions. Before we go into the question period, I would like to read my ruling from yesterday.

Speaker's Ruling

Yesterday, the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi raised a Point of Order alleging the possibility that the honourable Member for the Mackenzie Delta, Richard Nerysoo, had called him a liar.

I wish first to indicate to all Members that it is often difficult for the Chair to determine immediately if a phrase used by a Member is unparliamentary. As indicated in Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, 6th edition, at citation 486(1), and I quote, "much depends on the tone, manner and the intention of the person speaking", end of quote. All of these factors must be viewed in the context of the general debate surrounding the alleged unparliamentary phrase. This particular incident is a good example of the difficulty the Chair sometimes has in isolating a specific unparliamentary phrase from the surrounding context of heated debate.

I have reviewed the unedited Hansard, and in particular, pages 444 to 446. Mr. Nerysoo's exact words were, and I quote "I also want to indicate to the honourable Member before he gives the impression that I have had nothing to do with the Gwich'in self-government discussions, or for that matter, the development of the proposal that has been before the government is absolutely a lie," end of quote. Mr. Nerysoo did not call Mr. Kakfwi a liar or refer to anything he had said as a lie. However, Mr. Nerysoo did anticipate that the Minister would respond to his question with a response, which to him would be a lie. It has always been unparliamentary to suggest that a Member has deliberately lied and deceived the House. Beauchesne's contains many citations to this effect. I refer Members to Beauchesne's 6th edition, citation 494, which states that, "it is not unparliamentary temperately to criticise statements made by Ministers as being contrary to the facts, but no imputation of intentional falsehood is permissible." Accordingly, the word "lie" would suggest an intentional deceit, which has always been ruled unparliamentary. Furthermore, I rule that to anticipate an intentional deceit, a lie by a Member is also unparliamentary. The comment was almost assuredly made by Mr. Nerysoo in the heat of the debate and was most likely totally inadvertent. However, I feel that the implications contained in the use of the word "lie" cannot be accepted. Accordingly, I will ask Mr. Nerysoo to withdraw the word "lie."

In reviewing the unedited Hansard, however, I also note that the debate leading up to the unparliamentary language could have caused some degree of provocation. Mr. Kakfwi said, and I quote, "To suggest that I do not know what his constituency is saying is a bit irresponsible." Statements such as this can cause negative reactions. Debate in the House may become heated and Members may say things that, upon reflection, might have been phrased in a different way. I ask all Members to be careful and respectful of the other Members of this House when engaged in debate. It is fundamental to the democratic process that all Members be able to share their different points of view in a reasonable and rational manner and that the dignity of that debate and of the Legislature always be respected and preserved.

Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to apologize to the House for the use of the word "lie." I apologize to the House, Mr. Zoe. If that is acceptable, Mr. Speaker.

If you could withdraw the word just for Hansard, I think that would be the proper course of action at this time, Mr. Nerysoo.

Mr. Speaker, I will not challenge your decision, but I am not clear on whether one should apologize to the House or one should withdraw. I have apologized for the use of the word, if there was any intention of suggesting that a Member was lying.

In this case, I would look at my ruling, Mr. Nerysoo. I think that because there were some subsequent words, I will read my ruling again.

The comment was almost assuredly made by Mr. Nerysoo in the heat of debate and was most likely totally inadvertent. However, I feel that the implications contained in the use of the word "lie" cannot be accepted. Accordingly, I will ask Mr. Nerysoo to withdraw the word "lie." Mr. Nerysoo.

No, Mr. Speaker, and you may name me.

Mr. Nerysoo, in the spirit of cooperation in this House and my attempt to be fair in my ruling, and my attempt to state a point that it is not in the best interest of this House that the word "lie" be used. I had asked in what I thought was a fair and reasonable way, Mr. Nerysoo, if you would consider withdrawing the word "lie." I do very much appreciate your apology but because of the way the ruling was constructed, it would be much appreciated, Mr. Nerysoo, if you would reconsider.

Mr. Speaker, I accept and will withdraw the word "lie." However, I do suggest, Mr. Speaker, that the honourable Member also apologize for suggesting that I have been an irresponsible Member.

Because there was not a formal point of order, I cannot order that the Member do that, but in the interest again of reaching harmony in the House, I will ask Mr. Kakfwi if he would consider that request.

Thank you very much, Mr. Kakfwi. I do appreciate both Members reaching this compromise. I think it is in the best interest of the House. Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Premier regarding the D.P.W. building in Gjoa Haven which I asked about earlier this week. Given that the carvers of community of Gjoa Haven need that building, and want outright ownership of the building, I wonder if the Cabinet has made a decision as to the fate of that building? Has the Cabinet made a decision to give this building to the community of Gjoa

Haven? By the community, I mean the carvers' group in Gjoa Haven. Thank you.

Madam Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have discussed the issue with the Minister responsible for the Department of Public Works and we are well on our way to making a decision on that, but we have not brought it to the Cabinet. The Member will note that, the Minister has been away for the last few days. We will see to the matter as soon as possible. Thank you.

Thank you. I would like to take this opportunity to recognize in the gallery, Ms. Cece McCauley, who is the Honorary Chief of the Inuvik Native Band.

---Applause

Item 5, Oral Questions. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources. This fall, the Minister replied that she would be able to respond to my question with regard to the report of N.W.T. Power Corporation.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, I do not think the Member's question was concluded and I would like him to further clarify which issue on the Power Corporation he is talking about.

Mr. Pudlat, would you like to clarify that question?

(Translation) This fall I brought up a concern of my constituents, regarding the electricity rates. The Minister for Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources had requested a review of these rates in the north. She had also responded to me in September and indicated that the review would be available. Would the Minister indicate whether or not the review is going to be available during this session? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Cournoyea.

Mr. Speaker, yes, we can supply that information.

Item 5, Oral Questions. Item 6, Written Questions. Item 7, Returns to Written Questions. Item 8, Replies to Opening Address. Item 9, Petitions. Item 10, Reports of Standing and Special Committees. Item 11, Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills. Item 12, Tabling of Documents. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 12, Tabling of Documents. Item 13, Notices of Motion. Item 14, Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills. Item 15, Motions. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS, the term of the Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly is prescribed by the Northwest Territories Act (Canada);

AND WHEREAS, the Northwest Territories Act stipulates that the term of a Legislative Assembly in the Northwest Territories is four years;

AND WHEREAS, the Constitution Act 1982 provides that the maximum term for the House of Commons and all provincial Legislative Assemblies should not extend beyond five years;

AND WHEREAS, all Legislatures in Canada with the exception of the Northwest Territories and Yukon Legislative Assemblies have a maximum of five years and an election can be called at any time within that time frame;

AND WHEREAS, the Northwest Territories Legislative Assembly does not have the power to dissolve itself and call an election without the approval of the Government of Canada;

AND WHEREAS, any Legislature should have a term of office that enables that Legislature to fully implement and carry out its decisions;

AND WHEREAS, a fixed term of four years does not permit an Assembly or government sufficient flexibility to address successfully the concerns of the residents of the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS, the present term of the Legislative Assembly requires an election to be held in mid-winter;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the Honourable Member for Hay River, that this Legislative Assembly adopt and recommend that the Executive Council request the Government of Canada to immediately amend the Northwest Territories Act to extend the term of a Legislative Assembly from four years to a period of up to five years; FURTHERMORE, that the amendment also permit the Legislative Assembly to dissolve itself and call a general election at any time within its legislative term.

The motion is in order, Mr. Lewis. To the motion. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It has become very clear to us that the inflexibility that we currently have to endure places tremendous burdens on any new government which is elected. When we have a fixed term and we have an October or November election, there is no time to put together a budget to present to this House so we can pursue what I consider to be the proper course of having a budget on capital in the fall, and an O & M budget in the winter, so the proper planning can take place. In order to allow this Assembly to phase itself into a proper budget cycle, proper planning and a proper government agenda, we should be given the kind of flexibility that other legislatures have. I realize that our system is quite different from the system that exists in southern Canada, where, at any time, a leader who is unsure or would like to test his mandate, can just ask the Lieutenant Governor to go immediately to the people for a renewed mandate. In our system what I would propose, Mr. Speaker, through this motion, is that instead of having that power in the hands of a leader, we would decide simply by a vote of this Assembly to ask the Commissioner to dissolve us, so we could go to the people. That is really the intent of this motion, Mr. Speaker.

My own preference would be to have a spring election because that makes sense in terms of the new kind of government planning that is in place. We have endured a very difficult year in which we have had to go through several budget processes in order to achieve the objectives of the government. I believe it is one of the reasons why our own government appears to be, from time to time, in disarray. I have thought about this quite a bit. Why is it that we continually wonder what the agenda is, what the program is, and so on. I see the problem as being one of having sufficient flexibility in order to plan the agenda properly, instead of having to start from scratch and build a budget, two of them over a short period of time, which means we have to wait one whole year before the government can really get on track. This frustrated me a lot this past year. For that reason I decided this was the time to make another step in constitutional development, so that we would no longer have to go to Ottawa with our cap in our hand, asking the Minister of Indian Affairs if it is all right to do this or all right to do that. We should have the power ourselves, at least to ask the Commissioner as a federal representative like a Lieutenant Governor to dissolve so we can go to the people. My own personal preference would be to have an earlier election in the spring of 1995 instead of the fall of 1995. If the Members feel that we should just leave it and wait to see what kind of agenda is forthcoming and what kind of programs need to be fully fleshed out and implemented, then it will be up to the House to decide. However, we should have that kind of flexibility, Mr. Speaker.

Seconder, Mr. Pollard.

Question.

Question has been called. The mover has the opportunity to conclude debate. Mr. Lewis.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 16, First Reading of Bills. Mr. Pollard.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that Bill 8, Payroll Tax Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Your motion is in order, Mr. Pollard. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 8 has had first reading. Item 16, First Reading of Bills. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Aivilik, that Bill 10, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, be read for the first time. Thank you.

The motion is in order, Mr. Pollard. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 10 has had first reading. Item 17, Second Reading of Bills. Item 18, Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters: Committee Report 1-12(3), Standing Committee on Finance Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates, and Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1993-94 with Mr. Ningark in the Chair.

I thank you for your attention. The committee will now come to order. Yesterday we discussed the Education, Culture and Employment Programs budget. We were on Bill 1 and Committee Report 1-12(3) when we concluded yesterday. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Todd.

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, we will proceed with Economic Development if we can.

Does the committee agree that we deal with the Department of Economic Development 1993-94 Capital Estimates?

Agreed.

Thank you. It has been a long morning. We will take a 15 minute break and come back.

---SHORT BREAK

Thank you. I think we had a good break and the committee will now come to order. There was a suggestion on the floor that we deal with the Department of Economic Development and Tourism. That is on page 15-11 of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates. Mr. Minister do you have opening remarks for the committee? Thank you.

Department Of Economic Development And Tourism, Introductory Remarks

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the 1993-94 capital budget of the Department of Economic Development and Tourism is divided into two areas: tourism, including parks and visitors' centres; and the development corporation. I will deal with visitors' centres first, Mr. Chairman.

Through the 1993-94 capital plan, the department will finish the visitors' centre in Dawson City and begin construction of a regional centre in Inuvik. These two complementary facilities will increase the quantity, and improve the quality, of tourism information throughout the western Arctic.

The early summer of 1993 will also see the opening of the visitors' centre in Arviat.

In the parks area, Mr. Chairman, the funds provided in the capital plan will put the finishing touches on Blackstone, Saamba Deh, Lady Evelyn and Fred Henne Parks. Major renovations are planned for the Hay River Park and the Happy Valley campground in Inuvik. Once improved, it is anticipated that these two parks will be well-used each summer.

In some parks, Mr. Chairman, the main attractions are historical resources. The parks planned for the Meliadine River near Rankin Inlet and the Whaling Era buildings in Pangnirtung are projects through which people can come to understand and appreciate the north's rich history.

The two largest park initiatives in the capital plan are Katannilik, and Twin Falls. Katannilik Park includes the Soper River and the valley adjacent to Lake Harbour. Katannilik Park will especially appeal to hikers and canoeists who are seeking some of the fine Arctic scenery the north has to offer. Twin Falls Park is a consolidation of small, older highway parks on Highway No. 1, "the waterfalls route" near the Alberta border. This improved park will link Alexandra and Louise Falls by a scenic cliff side hiking trail.

Other types of facilities included in the capital plan are: roadside pull-offs; scenic look-outs; interpretive signs; and basic information signage to maintain the interest and diversion of visitors along the way.

Projects under the highway corridor development category include picnic areas and boat launch sites along the Ingraham Trail; improved highway signs along the Liard highway and the N.W.T. border, and the expansion of the highway route marker program along the highway to Fort Providence.

Tourism signage projects will be completed in Coppermine and Tuktoyaktuk, and new signs and outdoor displays will be developed in Cambridge Bay, Fort McPherson and Cape Dorset.

Last year, Mr. Chairman, the Standing Committee on Finance asked the department to provide more detail about the economic benefits resulting from our capital investments. During the development and construction phases alone, the projects proposed for 1993-94 are estimated to create 44 person years of local employment, which equates to 166 seasonal jobs. The data does not reflect the additional employment opportunities created because facilities are improved, consequently attracting more visitors for even longer periods of time.

Mr. Chairman, with regard to the N.W.T. Development Corporation, the corporation operates at arm's length from the department, and establishes its capital plan through an annual corporate plan.

Due to this status, it does not appear in the department's capital plan as a series of separate projects but rather as one summary budget.

The N.W.T. Development Corporation has a mandate to invest primarily for the benefit of lesser developed communities. This year it will invest some six million dollars toward the development of business opportunities. Those businesses are typically community-based with local boards playing a major role in their continued operation.

The development corporation is founded on the principle that increased local ownership and participation will lead to increased business success.

Mr. Chairman, in the first 18 months of operation, the Northwest Territories Development Corporation board of directors approved some $10.5 million in capital investments in 11 development corporation majority owned businesses, $1.2 million in eight pilot projects, and $4.1 million as a minority partner in nine joint ventures with N.W.T. entrepreneurs. In addition, the corporation will provide $1.8 million in operating subsidies to its majority owned business for the prior and current fiscal years.

Over the coming months, the development corporation will place emphasis on improving the management and support systems for its various ventures, increasing the productivity of its businesses, and seeking out joint venture opportunities, especially in lesser developed communities where it is not now present.

Time is required to refine its corporate strategy, communicate its mission more broadly, and increase community awareness of its programs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, I respectfully request the inclusion of witnesses as we go through the budget. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I will call two witnesses to come forward at the appropriate time, but in the order of the committee's procedure, I will ask the Standing Committee on Finance to make a presentation, if there is a presentation to be made, Mr. Dent.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Proceed, Mr. Dent.

The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Dent.

Thank you. I will now seek the concurrence of this committee for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism to bring in his witnesses. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, would you escort the witnesses. Mr. Minister, welcome to the committee. For the record, Mr. Minister, can you please introduce your witnesses.

Department Of Economic Development And Tourism

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have Mr. Roland Bailey the Deputy Minister of Economic Development and Tourism and also Mr. Jim Kennedy, who is the Director of Finance for Economic Development and Tourism. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. We are now into the general comments by Members of this committee. General comments for the Economic Development and Tourism budget? Mr. Antoine.

General Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I noticed that in the past, when different parks were developed for the Fort Smith region, for example, Saamba Deh Falls Park, Twin Falls Gorge Park or Lady Evelyn Falls Park, they were in the capital estimates under "certain communities", but now they are listed under various Fort Smith. Does this mean that all these parks are controlled out of the Fort Smith office? Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, no, it does not mean that they are all controlled out of one area. There is consultation with the closest community but it is efficient to coordinate those activities by route and so there are some areas that are maintained by the central agency. Consultation is still done at the community level. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you. The Blackstone Park is close to Nahanni Butte. Over the years quite a substantial amount of money has been spent to develop this park. The community of Nahanni Butte has indicated to me that it has seen very little in terms of income from it. It is very close to the traditional area of the people who live there. A small community such as Nahanni Butte, with this opportunity being so close to its traditional area, should benefit from the opportunity as much as it can. I know that millions of dollars have been poured into this area. At the same time the Nahanni National Park, which is not in our jurisdiction, has also received millions of dollars. A lot of money has been poured into these areas. The community was totally neglected. I would like to suggest that the Department of Economic and Tourism concentrate more in the smaller communities, such as Nahanni Butte, Trout Lake, Jean Marie River and Liard. It seems to me that these smaller communities have been neglected. I would like to stress to the Minister and his departmental officials, if the priority could be shifted to focus on the smaller communities, especially if there is a large amount of development happening close to them. We should do whatever we can to make sure that the people and the community benefit from these developments. This would help the community in the long run. Thank you.

Thank you. In order to accommodate the interpretations provided to this House, I will pause momentarily at the end of each speaker's statement. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the point is taken. We will have somebody from parks go into Nahanni Butte and consult with the community and find out what the problem is. Thank you.

General comments? We will now go detail by detail. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, over the next few years with substantial improvement to the highway systems, we anticipate that a large number of tourists will be travelling to Yellowknife on the Mackenzie Highway. We do not have much in the way of signage. For example, we do not have any signage with regard to the Mackenzie River. Even though people cross it, I am not sure if they know it is the beginning of the Mackenzie River. I think there should be a sign along the river somewhere between Providence and the ferry landing that explains the history of how the river got its name, and what the aboriginal people call it. I think all this information should be provided for tourists.

The Mackenzie River is a scenic area and we do not have anywhere for tourists to stop to take a look around. I would like to have something like this put in place. Tourism still carries on during the winter crossing, garbage is left behind, and sewage is still being dumped. I have expressed this concern many times before and I am still not happy with the way things are carried out in that area. The Minister and his department should be looking a few years ahead, because we expect the highway to Rae-Edzo to be completed by 1997. With this I would think that the volume of traffic would increase and I think we should have more to offer to tourists travelling on our roads.

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. We are in the area of general comments. Mr. Zoe.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Minister, do you have any comments with regard to the general comments made by the honourable Member, Mr. Zoe?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there are many disadvantaged areas in the Northwest Territories, as the Members of this House know. We have to be seen to be fair to all areas of the Northwest Territories. I sympathize with what Mr. Zoe is saying, but I would point out to him that it was just recently that the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources came to an agreement through the N.W.T. Power Corporation with the Dogrib Nation with regard to building two hydro sites in the Dogrib area. I do not want this House to think that we have not been doing anything for the Dogrib Nation. I was at a meeting, as was Mr. Zoe not too long ago, where there was a question from a company that the Dogrib people are doing business with, that if that company was in partnership with the Dogrib Nation whether we would consider having them build a road in this area, and then leasing it back from them. They were given the green light to make a presentation to us, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this government has intervened to make sure that the Dogrib company got a helicopter contract with Renewable Resources. So I do not want anyone here to think that we are not doing anything in that particular area. We will assist all areas of the Northwest Territories, Mr. Chairman. I could point out that I know the Kitikmeot is having problems as well, but I could also say that the Deh Cho is having problems with its economy. I just want to say that I hear the Member's comments, I understand what he is talking about, but we must be seen as being fair to everybody and trying to bring everyone along at the same time and let them build on their natural interests and attributes in their particular area. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. I have Mr. Pudlat, and then Mr. Gargan. Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I was able to go to my community with the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism and I was very happy about that. I am sorry that we were stuck in a vehicle. We were trying to push the vehicle for about an hour when we were stuck. I would like to express my gratitude to the Department of Economic Development and the Standing Committee on Finance. The new park, which has been in place since August, is a very scenic place in both winter and summer. People are using that park already. I am sure this is going to be very beneficial to the communities. There are some people who are trying to find jobs. We have to work hard to bring the programs for parks in place to help our people. If we start putting these kinds of programs in place we can start having some jobs available to our people. We are still trying to make these kinds of programs available to Cape Dorset. We do not want to be on social assistance, we want to develop programs so we can have jobs available to our people. The people in my constituency are not the only ones who are on welfare assistance.

By working together with our government, the Minister, the Cabinet and ordinary M.L.A.s, we can start moving forward. Since we have just voted on the N.W.T. Nunavut ratification, we are going to start looking toward our future to see what we have to do and what priorities we have to set. We have to look at our young people who drop out of school. We know that there are people who have certificates and qualifications for certain kinds of jobs, but it would be so much better today if we could look at other people who are disadvantaged, compared to the people who have certificates and qualifications. If we look at those people we can start to move forward. I would like to work closely with the Department of Economic Development and Tourism. If I was just on welfare assistance, I would not be moving forward at all. There are people who will get married and have children, and they are going to have to have some money to move forward in their lives. I would like to start working with the department to try to make economic development work in our communities. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Qujannamiik, Mr. Pudlat. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it was embarrassing getting stuck in that vehicle. At one point we considered calling D.P.W. to tow us out, but we were afraid of what Mr. Morin would charge us.

---Laughter

I appreciated visiting the Member's community. There seems to be a great deal of interest in the park. There is already a proposal by the Co-op to expand to accommodate visitors. There is also a private sector person who is interested in building a facility in the park in conjunction with the community with them being shareholders in the project. There is also a great deal of interest in the park this year, and a number of trips into it have been booked at this early stage of its development. So we are pleased with the way it is going. We are also pleased with the community support. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The economy is so slow today that getting stuck seems to be the trend. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I agree completely with the Minister of Economic Development when he suggests that we have to be perceived as being as fair and responsible to all the regions. One initiative that the Minister has taken with regard to incubator malls. I think it is being restricted to your region, so that only one committee could be selected from each region for that initiative. I would like to say that it should be open to all the communities. If the communities feel that an incubator mall is justified for their community, then they should be given the opportunity to develop that.

Also, Mr. Chairman, I have a concern about the Business Credit Corporation. It is a corporation that gives out money for business development, to make approvals with regard to business ventures, but that board has not been in existence for some time now. The Minister did not indicate that he would like to have Members suggest things by the tenth and that he would be doing the selection before the end of month. I would like to ask the Minister whether he has received nominations for selection to the board and whether he anticipates that the board will be functioning by the end of this month, as he stated?

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Minister.

Yes, Mr. Chairman, the board will be functional next week.

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Just one other thing, Mr. Chairman. Several months ago the Minister indicated, with regard to the Patterson Sawmill, that a business plan would be developed so that in three or four years the corporation would be profitable. I would just like to ask the Minister whether this plan is in place now.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Yes, there is a business plan in place for the Patterson Sawmill, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.

How is the Patterson Sawmill doing now that it has been in operation for about six months? Is it doing all right and can the Minister provide me with the business plan that he was referring to?

Thank you. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism.

Mr. Chairman, the Patterson Sawmill is not doing badly, although it is not getting as much product out of the trees as we had hoped. We are looking at some new technology, perhaps some narrow curve saws. The cost of production per thousand is still a little too high for us. However, as we up the volume that is going through there, we anticipate that the cost will come down. If we can get a greater percentage of finished wood out of the logs with some new technology, then we hope that the mill will be profitable.

I should explain to the House that there has been a verbal inquiry as to whether we should sell Patterson Sawmill and that is being looked at right now, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. We are in general comments. Mr. Nerysoo.