This is page numbers 273 - 296 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was women.

Topics

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Wildlife Act
Revert Back To Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move seconded by the honourable Member for Hay River, that Bill 15, an Act to Amend the Wildlife Act, be read for the first time.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Wildlife Act
Revert Back To Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The motion is in order.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Wildlife Act
Revert Back To Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

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An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Wildlife Act
Revert Back To Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 15 had has first reading. Item 16, First Reading of Bills.

First Reading Of Bill 15 Withdrawn
Revert Back To Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

I am sorry, Mr. Allooloo, I have been informed that the House is not in possession of the Bill. First reading has been withdrawn. Item 17, Second Reading of Bills. Item 18, Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters: Tabled Document 2-12(3), "The Justice House" Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality; Committee Report 1-12(3), Standing Committee on Finance Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates; Committee Report 3-12(3), Final Report of the Special Committee on Constitutional Reform; Committee Report 4-12(3), Report on the Review of the 1993-94 Capital Estimates for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation; Bill 1 Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1993-94; Bill 9, an Act to Amend the Liquor Act; Bill 10, an Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 13, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1991-92; Bill 14, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1992-93; Appearance of the Languages Commissioner, with Mr. Nerysoo in the Chair.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

The committee will now come to order. Thank you for your attention. Mr. Nerysoo.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, I believe that it was our intention to deal with Tabled Document 2-12(3), "The Justice House" Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality, today as the first item of business.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Does the committee agree that we deal with Tabled Document 2-12(3), "The Justice House" Report of the Special Advisor on Gender Equality. Agreed?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Nerysoo.

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, before the Minister makes his opening remarks I wanted to bring some points to the attention of this House. Firstly, it is our intention to have a discussion on the report and not necessarily to conclude the discussion, nor the debate on the recommendations which have been made. As a result of this, we would hope that a major debate would take place after explanations have been given with regard to the recommendations from the Minister and from the Chairperson of the committee. It was also our view that we wish to have a major debate on the report, including the suggestions which were made previously and that was to consider inviting other persons and other organizations, such as the Council on the Status of Women, into the committee to make their views known to this House and to the government. I wanted to make these initial comments before the Minister got into debate on this particular item, so that he is aware of the issues, the concerns and the direction that we wish to take on this matter. Thank you.

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Does the Minister have opening remarks? Mr. Kakfwi.

Introductory Remarks

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in December 1990 Katherine Peterson was given a 16 month mandate to examine criminal justice and family law in the Northwest Territories, and to recommend changes that would make the justice system more responsive to women.

In the preparation of this report the special advisor travelled to all regions of the territories to conduct public workshops and public meetings. A broad variety of women and men of all ages participated in this process. The special advisors also met with representatives of agencies involved in the administration of justice, including the R.C.M.P., Crown prosecutors, members of the judiciary and officials from the Departments of Justice and Social Services. This report is the result of those extensive consultations. It contains 90 recommendations covering many areas and directed at various departments and organizations. In the report, the special advisor makes the point that women and aboriginal people were not involved in the development of the rules that govern our current system of administration of justice. As a result, the system does not always reflect the values and perspectives of those who were not consulted in the designing of "The Justice House". This important point has been brought home forcefully and eloquently on many occasions by statements made in this Assembly by Members of this committee.

The most important message in this report is that women must be treated with respect. This report contains a great number of suggestions on how to make changes to the Justice system so that women are treated with respect, so that their concerns are heard and so that women are no longer ignored as they so often have been in the past. Changes are needed in all parts of the justice system. Many of these parts are beyond the direct control of a territorial Minister of Justice. Many recommendations are directed at agencies outside this government. For example, ten recommendations are aimed at the Department of Justice, Canada. Seven are directed at the R.C.M.P. Others are directed at the Law Society or the Canadian Bar Association. These are being passed on to those agencies with every encouragement to receive the recommendations favourably and to act on them positively.

Sixteen recommendations directly affect the courts. These recommendations must be dealt with in a manner that fully respects the independence of the judiciary, while at the same time ensuring that the courts are given the encouragement and the tools to reflect community values.

Other recommendations require the cooperation of other departments. Thirteen recommendations involve the Department of Social Services, four involve the Department of Education and two involve the Department of Health. Officials from the Department of Justice are currently engaged in discussions with other departments on the implementation of recommendations. There must also be extensive consultation with women's organizations across the territories. When women in the north have contact with the justice system, they almost always do so as victims of violence. We are all more aware of the reality of violence against women as we approach the anniversary of the Montreal massacre.

Violence against women, as has been pointed out by Members of this House, has reached epidemic proportions in the territories. This situation gave to a recommendation of the Standing Committee on Finance in September, that the Department of Justice develop a pro-active plan or strategy to address violence. Many of the key elements of that strategy are contained in the report of the special advisor. This would include such things as a major public awareness campaign directed at changing attitudes about violence against women.

The report also recommends counselling programs for abusive men. Another element of the strategy will be the provision of training to Justice personnel so that they better understand the situation and perspective of women, particularly when they are dealing with cases of sexual assault and wife assault. The department is working on the development of training materials. This exercise will involve the cooperation of other agencies and departments. The recommendations of the special advisor come to us at a time when major innovations to the administration of justice are under way. These innovations are aimed at encouraging community members to assume a greater role in solving problems in their communities. In this way, those people who have been left out of the development of this system will have an opportunity to solve problems in a manner that they think is appropriate.

As we embark on this process, it is essential that we ensure the full participation of women. Women have participated actively in our discussions in communities. Their voices must continue to be heard. We must seek their help and advice and full involvement as the input of women in these innovations is key to their success.

Another important area of recommendations concerns the provisions of services to victims. The special advisor recommends that these services are community based and culturally relevant. The mandate of these services should be developed at the community level. These recommendations are consistent with the approach that the department is taking in the development of community justice initiatives. Much work remains to be done in this area. This is necessarily a long-term undertaking, and the assistance of other levels of government will have to be sought.

A number of the recommendations address the need to make justice more accessible to women. Several of these have been acted on by the department, and proposed legislative changes are in the works. For example, I will be bringing forward a legislative proposal to change the Limitation of Actions Act so that women who have been sexually assaulted are not barred from suing their assailant because they are unable to start proceedings soon enough after the assault. This measure recognizes that women are often severely traumatized by sexual assault, especially when the assault is perpetrated by a family member.

I will also be recommending to Cabinet, legislative changes to allow common-law spouses access to support from their former partners. The current legislation is inadequate and does not recognize the large number of common-law relationships in the territories. I propose to address this problem right away. The special advisor recommends the extension of the victim impact statement pilot project to communities across the territories. I believe that this recommendation was made before it became apparent that this program was not working as well as we might have hoped. An evaluation of the pilot project is necessary before any decisions are made. It may well be, as an honourable Member has suggested, that the program will work best in communities where there are well supported victims. It may also be that the aboriginal ethic of non-interference and the desire to restore harmony has not been taken into account in this program. An evaluation, the terms of which are currently being drawn up, will help provide us with the answers. I am pleased to have this opportunity today to discuss this report with Members of the committee.

Many of the recommendations are already being actively pursued by the Department of Justice, both directly and with other players in the justice system. I believe we will benefit greatly from the advice and guidance of the Legislative Assembly as we embark on the legislative and financial initiatives which we will ultimately need to review and consider.

We are fortunate today to have as a witness, Ms. Katherine Peterson, the author of the report. She will be able to help us in our discussions on this report. I will invite Ms. Peterson to join us as a witness so Members may have some discussion, exchange of views and be able to ask her some questions. Thank you.

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Does the committee agree to the Minister bringing in the witness? No? Do you want a time-out? All right, we will take a 15 minute break.

---SHORT BREAK

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Prior to the break, Mr. Minister wanted to bring in the witness. Does the committee agree that Mr. Minister will bring in the witness?

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister. Thank you. Mr. Minister, would you introduce the witness for the record?

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to have as a witness for us today, Ms. Katherine Peterson, Special Advisor on Gender Equality.

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

The floor is now open for general comments. Mr. Koe. General comments from the table.

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
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Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It was my understanding that the witness will be making a presentation on the report that was tabled.

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Ms. Peterson, do you have opening comments, a presentation for the committee?

Author's Presentation

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
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Peterson

Yes, I do. Thank you for the opportunity to allow me to make a few comments to you about the report that you now have before you. This report, as was indicated by the Minister, was written as a result of consultations with individuals throughout all regions of the Northwest Territories. There are a couple of fundamental principles in the report, and they form what I would suggest to you is the foundation of that report.

The first premise is, not only are men and women different, which I think we can all understand, but men and women experience the world differently because of their gender. Men and women are also treated differently by the world around them because of their gender. The report is not about treating men and women the same. The report is about understanding the differences and the experiences of men and women and learning to respect those differences for both men and women.

The reason the report emphasizes that a greater degree of respect is required for the experiences of women, how the world deals with them and how they deal with the world, is because to date, that respect has not been accorded to them.

The other thing that you should be aware of, and I am sure you know, is that the court system and the administration of justice does not have all of the answers about how to treat women with respect and how to correct some of the unfairness and the inequality that women experience.

Those are the fundamental social problems which arise in the courts from time to time but cannot be solved by the courts. They must be solved in a broader societal context and they must be given the attention of bodies like this Legislative Assembly. That is why the recommendations contained in the report are not directed exclusively to the Department of Justice. They are directed to other areas of responsibility that affect our day to day living in the Northwest Territories, including the Department of Education, the Department of Health, the Department of Social Services and other federal agencies. It is only with the coordinated effort of all of these individuals that these problems will even begin to be addressed in a way that is meaningful to women who live in the Northwest Territories and particularly in a way that is meaningful to women who live in communities in this jurisdiction. Until we start recognizing that women in communities require substantial resources to assist them with the day to day burden that they deal with in terms of violence, abuse, and poverty we will make no progress in bringing forward the question of equality of men and women in the Northwest Territories.

Those issues and priorities are for the Members of the Legislative Assembly to establish. I suggest to you that the burden lies with Members of this body to determine whether this is a question that deserves your serious consideration. If it does indeed deserve your serious consideration, you must allocate resources appropriately in order to address them.

The recommendations are long and they deal with many different areas of the administration of justice and related agencies. There are 90 recommendations in total. I would be pleased to answer any questions that you might have on any one of the recommendations, or with respect to how the report was prepared or with respect to any of the philosophical principles that may be contained in it.

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Ms. Peterson, for the presentation. General comments, Mr. Gargan.

General Comments

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

December 3rd, 1992

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not sure Ms. Peterson was here when I made my Member's statement this morning. If she was, she will be aware that I have expressed my appreciation for this. In many ways I think that this is a very good report and I agree with a great many of the advisor's findings and recommendations. I want to make that clear now, because I want the honourable Members to know that I am supportive of the work that has been done.

However, I do want to start off my general comments with a couple of concerns that I have about this sort of review process. I would like to begin by commenting that there is always a danger with a review process that attempts to identify issues that are specific to one gender.

I think that all of us are aware that, through the years, people have tended to look at such issues as day care, nuclear arms and spousal assault as women's issues. They are not women's issues Mr. Chairman, they are everyone's issues. I feel that in many ways there is a danger that we face when we tend to look at certain types of unfairness in the courts as affecting women.

In my review of "The Justice House" I noticed that at least half of the special advisor's findings are just as applicable to men as they are to women. Mr. Chairman, it is clear that there are many instances in which the Canadian justice system which has been imposed on our northern community is unfair to both men and women.

There are recommendations about the need for plain language in the court rooms. There are recommendations about the needs for more control of judges conduct and recommendations about the need for more public education. These are all recommendations that apply equally to men and women. They should be looked at that way rather than as women's issues. As you see, Mr. Chairman, it is unfortunate that as soon as you label something as a women's issue, people tend to regard it as a feminist issue. There are certain attitudes and reactions that almost always come forward. In the 1990s, there are sectors of the population that tend to trivialize important matters as soon as they hear them labelled as feminist concerns or women's issues. That is unfortunate and should not happen. I believe it does and that the R.C.M.P., lawyers and judges referred to in this report are just as likely as other members of society to react to this labelling in a negative way. Let us not forget that the kind of insanity that makes a man attack and kill female engineering students in the tragic Montreal massacre arose as a result of a tendency to group women scientists as feminists. This action was both crazy and sinful. It reflects some of the attitudes which do exist and will always exist in our modern society. I wonder if we might have done a disservice to women in the Northwest Territories by trying to label shortcomings in the justice system as gender equality issues. They are shortcomings that we should all be aware of because, if the justice system is unfair to one of us, it is unfair to all of us. I will stop here, Mr. Speaker, and give the special advisor a chance to comment.

Tabled Document 2-12(3): "the Justice House" Report Of The Special Advisor On Gender Equality
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The Chair John Ningark

Ms. Peterson.