Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Personnel, operations and maintenance, staffing not previously authorized $42,500. Mr. Koe.

Yes, I just cannot let the moment go by without saying anything as one of the communities that is affected positively by this bill. The Member, my colleague here, has expressed his opinion, and it was a nice eloquent statement. I have some problems when he says that money and personnel are going to wrong communities. I think it is his own opinion and from his perspective. From my perspective, the initiative is good. I think it is a start and that we have to keep going. It is an initial thrust of this government to do the things that we asked them to do and I would hope there is more to come. My understanding is that there will be some movement between regional centres and the smaller communities. So we have to get some things out of the major centres into the smaller communities. I think we all agree with that. I also disagree with statements saying that these major communities are not hurting because I know in Inuvik there is nothing moving, nothing happening. There is no industry, no major capital initiative and the small influx of 10 PYs is a boost to a community like mine. I cannot let statements be made without giving some defence of my situation and the people I represent. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Koe. On page 3 of the 1992-93 Supplementary Appropriation, page 10, pardon me, staffing, not previously authorized $42,500. Mr. Bernhardt.

No, it is all right. Just go ahead.

Mr. Minister, would you like to provide us with an explanation?

Mr. Chairman, I was going to echo Mr. Koe's words. Do not tell me that Fort Simpson is not hurting, or Fort Smith, or Inuvik. I think the other thing the Member has to take into consideration is that when we do decentralize, we have to move to those places that have infrastructure and all of those places do.

As I have pointed out on the Standing Committee on Finance, when you move to those larger centres, you are creating strong regional centres that will ultimately create strong regions. Surely people must realize that when community transfer takes place, that is when those small communities will start to get some things going into them, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, the Member has to realize that Fort Simpson, is too big to be small and too small to be big. They have been having some terrible times in getting going and what we are trying to do is create a centre there that will get larger and will spill out into the rest of the region.

Another aspect that you have to take into consideration is that having these strong regional centres, Mr. Chairman, does provide for good transportation links, good transportation links surely are the basis of good economic development in those particular areas. I realize that the Member is frustrated.

I would point out that he is incorrect. Baker Lake was announced at the same time as decentralization, that it will be receiving a training program for airport fire fighters. So the Member is incorrect in saying that nothing is going to Baker Lake.

Also, Mr. Chairman, announced at this particular time was the fact that in Fort Smith we would support the maintenance facility for the C.L. 125s in Fort Smith, and that had nothing to do with decentralization. Mr. Chairman, we just took that opportunity to make those announcements.

What I am telling you is that this is part of an economic plan for the Northwest Territories and I would like to bring to the floor of the House the fact that the Member who has just been speaking, Mr. Zoe, is only days away -- his Dogrib Nation -- is only days away from signing a major deal with a Crown corporation of this particular government in which there will be ownership by the Dogrib Nation of two hydro dams in the Northwest Territories in that region. There will be tremendous spin-offs from that, Mr. Chairman, not only for the Dogrib Nation, but for this particular area as well.

So the Member may be disappointed that he is not getting anything decentralized to his area but he is featuring in another aspect of our economic plan which is the ownership, the operation, and the maintenance of two hydro systems from which we will buy power. It is not as though they are going to build them and we are going to haggle about the power. We are committed to buying the power from those two projects and I anticipate that that will give major economic stimulus to the Dogrib area.

I will not go any further, Mr. Chairman, but I would like to point out those facts. There are other things going on in the Northwest Territories that may not be contained in this decentralization plan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Bernhardt and Mr. Antoine. Mr. Bernhardt.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Pollard, you made reference to strong regional centres like Iqaluit, Rankin Inlet, Inuvik, Simpson, Fort Smith. Mr. Minister, what do you classify the Kitikmeot region as? We have a regional centre. Can I ask your opinion? What do you think of our region? Are we strong or are we still crawling? Are we too weak to stand on our own two feet and get government PYs?

For your information too, Mr. Minister, you made reference to transportation links. I want to bring you up to date on the transportation services Cambridge Bay has. They have N.W.T. Air or Air Canada, they have Canadian Airlines and they have First Air. For Coppermine, we have First Air and Ptarmigan. So, some of these things, although I support you on decentralization, I would be happy just to get a wee, wee bit of PYs for my region.

A good example would be Arctic airports in Cambridge Bay, if you have not decided where to put it. We have the environmental weather station there, you know those things with the balloons that they send out? We have that. We have the D.E.W. Line, Cam Main, and surely we are not in short supply of accommodations. We have a Co-op Store, we have the Bay, and it is a regional centre. I want your honest opinion, what do you classify the Kitikmeot as? What kind of region?

Page 10, Personnel, operations and maintenance. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to comment on this particular discussion of decentralization. I understand what the government intended to do by decentralizing some departments to certain communities. I understand the concern of my colleagues, Mr. Bernhardt and Mr. Zoe. I want to add to the debate that it is good for Fort Simpson that this decentralization is coming. Economically, this added 12 to 14 PYs to Fort Simpson. Therefore, you have spinoffs for more money flowing into the community. If you look at it in those terms, there are economic endeavours by this government happening in other parts of the north, like the N.W.T. Power Corporation deal with Mr. Zoe's constituency. Economically, this will help the region. It is the same as adding PYs to certain communities. This will help the economy. That is one front.

The other front is the political matter of trying to set up major political centres. It is good to do that, but at the same time we are venturing into political development which is related to constitutional development. We are dealing with that on a different front with the Nunavut Political Accord as well as the Western Constitutional Development. That will play a role in developing these constitutions in the long run by setting up strong political government centres. This will play a role in the requiem. This is the initial thrust of this government to be decentralized. If there is going to be any further decentralization, all these different concerns should be taken into consideration. It is good that we are getting some of these PYs into my community. However, you have to think of the other constituencies as well. I see these on two fronts, the economic front as well as the political. Thank you.

Thank you. I wonder if the Minister would like to respond? Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, I understand what the Member is saying. When I talked about strong regional centres, I was talking in the economic sense. I hope that it would not cause political problems to move positions to these particular areas. Particularly, we are hoping that a lot of these jobs will be filled by people in those communities who may not have the ability right now to do these jobs, but we will train them. It should not upset the balance politically too much if we get as many local people into those jobs as possible, Mr. Chairman. I do understand what the Member is saying. Thank you.

Are there any other general comments on the personnel? Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Chairman, under personnel staffing, it does say that there is a requirement of .5 PYs. What does it mean when you say that you have negotiated with the Union of Northern Workers and applied to staff affected by decentralization? What kind of effect are you actually talking about?

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, we just could not say to people, "Well, that is it. It is over. Your job is gone." There are about 90 people affected. There were decentralization support initiatives negotiated by the Minister of Personnel with the Union of Northern Workers. It was to apply to staff affected by decentralization. We have committed to seek other jobs for them if they do not want to move to those other communities. The .5 PYs is to coordinate that support that we are going to give those employees who may not wish to move and help them find other work, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments on personnel staffing, $42,500. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like many of my colleagues, I believe in giving more power to people we serve, to the regions, and to the communities. I believe in giving more programs to the regions and communities. I believe in giving more control to the regions, and subsequently to the communities within that region. We have nothing to lose here. In fact, we have a lot to gain from this. We have to begin somewhere. That somewhere is here. There is an initiative on the part of my constituents

Mr. Chairman, the way in which I see it, we have nothing to lose here, in fact we have a lot to gain from this. We have to begin somewhere and that somewhere is here. There is an initiative on the part of my constituents to take over the programs, powers, and control of government services. The initiative and willingness is here in this government. For those reasons I support this appropriation. Thank you.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. Employee benefits $193,000. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This one is to provide funding for the increased costs of providing vacation travel assistance to the Northwest Territories Teachers' Association and senior management employees of the Government of the Northwest Territories, as a result of the imposition of the federal Goods and Services Tax on airfare. The tax is being imposed on everybody. What is this? Are we now providing for these people, who have the vacation travel assistance, that extra amount to cover the G.S.T.?

Mr. Minister.