The way that I can see to deal with it, myself, is to meet with the people who are concerned about it and find out what their concerns are. I have to read the Dene standardization reports. I have them from a couple of years ago when they were done, but I have not looked at them since then. I am aware of them and all the work that was done. I worked along with a few of the people there working out some of the problems. What I can do is say, yes, I would be happy to meet with those people and find out what the problem is and make a recommendation to the government that certain things be done. You have to realize that the government departments have the responsibility of delivering services and programs. I do not have that responsibility.

Mine is to monitor those services and programs and make sure that the government is aware if there are any failings or any problems. I am like a channel for that information. The way this act exists and the way it was passed in this House does not give me authority to force the government to do anything. That is what I have to live with, too. There are lots of things that I would like to say but I cannot. It gives me investigative powers and that sort of thing, but it does not give me any authority to force the government to do anything.

My role is to gather that information, make those recommendations and make them strongly by tabling a report in this House and saying this is a major issue, and making it a public document so that people say, yes, that is an issue and we support it. That is the political process. If I put something in a report and table it in the House then it is up to the Members of the House to decide how much effort they want to put into it, or up to the public how much effort they want to put in to try to force the government to do what is recommended.

I just have to explain that I am limited by this legislation. It gives me some powers, but some limitations as well. I will do everything I can to try to deal with people's concerns and make the recommendations that they feel need to be made.

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think this is my last comment. You are telling me that you will gather information on these concerns, you will make recommendations to the government and you would like to talk to the people who were involved in that. In that case, I would suggest that you meet with the group called the Dene Standardization Committee, members of the five regions, plus the linguists, if possible, and pick up from where they have left off, rather than going all the way back to the beginning to have something to work with. They did put a lot of time and energy into making a number of recommendations and the government Minister of the day had accepted that report. Their main concern is that there is a definite need to have standardization in the writing of the Dene language. Rather than going right back to the investigation, I would like to suggest that this is the place to start. Thank you.

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

I am aware that under the Canada/N.W.T. Agreement on Aboriginal Languages there is funding for the Dene Standardization Committee under the orthography section in there, so I will get in touch with them and see whether they have any meetings planned. To my knowledge, they have not had any meetings recently. Yes, they are all over the place. They always were, though. They were always in many different areas but they were coming together on a regular basis during the process of developing the standard orthography. I do not think that they have met recently but I will request a meeting with them.

That is going to require funding for them all to come together as well. That is the kind of thing I do not have in my budget. I do not have the money to pay for bringing large groups in to meet with them. I would have to do that on a regular basis. I will look to see if there is funding under the agreement for me to meet with them.

I would like to ask the Member a question. Are you suggesting that I do this instead of coming to your constituency to talk about that issue with the individuals? I am willing to do both if that is still the request of the Member.

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

I would like you to do both. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any general comments or questions? Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I did ask a number of questions under written questions in the House. I would like to propose them to the Languages Commissioner since I did receive the response from the Government Leader that it would be inappropriate for her office to provide the requested information. I will list all the questions. She may have a copy of them.

She commented on the status of the annual report and I would like to know its status.

I would like a summary of the destination, purpose, duration and cost of all duty travel undertaken by the Languages Commissioner since her appointment; a summary of the destination, purpose, duration and cost of all duty travel undertaken by staff or other officials in the office of the Languages Commissioner since the appointment of the Languages Commissioner.

I also ask for a listing of prescribed organizations referred to in subsection 23 of the Official Languages Act; the dates, duration and location of meetings held between the representatives of the prescribed organization and the Languages Commissioner as required by subsection 23 of the Official Languages Act.

I ask for a listing of the type of service, contractor, duration and amount of all services contracted by the office of the Languages Commissioner and a statement indicating the number of reports provided to the Government Leader, deputy ministers or other administrative heads of institutions by the Languages Commissioner pursuant to subsection 22.1 of the Official Languages Act.

Mr. Chairman, if I may continue to comment on this, I did want to be very candid and upfront on what has been some of the comments. The Languages Commissioner may have surmised from the questions asked about the travel and accountability that some Members have concerns with respect to the Languages Commissioner consistently travelling with a Member of the House. This raises issues about her accountability given the potential for conflict of interest. Would the Languages Commissioner care to comment on the perception held by some Members, particularly since the Languages Commissioner indicated earlier that she reports to each Member of this House? Thank you.

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

I thought that the issue of conflict of interest that is underlying that whole question, had been addressed earlier just after I was appointed. As far as I was informed there was no conflict. The idea that I travel consistently with a

Member of the House is not correct. We have made a couple of trips together, but I have also made a lot of trips on my own and so has he. There are times when we both happen to be going to the same place to meet at the same meeting about totally different business. We do not discuss the kind of business that we are doing when we go on those trips. I do my own business and he does his own. There are times when we have travelled together where it has not been work, it has been on a holiday. People have perceived that we are travelling together for business, but it has not been. I can understand that people have questions about that.

As far as I understood, the issue of conflict had been addressed. I was informed that there was no conflict. Whether it is appropriate for us to ever travel together is another issue that needs to be addressed. Perhaps I need advice on that. I would be open to advice from the Members. If it is perceived to be a problem, then we will have to do something about it. There are times when we are going to travel together when it is not business, and people will see us. I thought that was one of the issues that had been dealt with. Perhaps there are still outstanding questions on it.

I have all the information that the Member has asked for. It just has not been compiled into a written response. If you want, I can give you most of that information orally right now. It will probably take ten or 15 minutes to go through all of it, if you want all of those expenditures, trips, times and dates, who I met with, the casual expenditures, contract expenditures, etc. I do have all of that information here.

Thank you. Member for Thebacha.

Mr. Chairman, I would appreciate that information to be granted to us. It would also be for the record. Thank you.

Thank you. Languages Commissioner.

I have already reported that I will be tabling the annual report in the February/March session. It has to be translated. I have to decide whether I am going to do it in 11 different versions. It will be ready in the February/March session. I am not sure exactly when, but it will be done. That will be the termination of a year.

The next question is the duty travel destination, purpose, duration and cost of all duty travel. I have a summary. Before I started in the office, I was on leave without pay for a week or two in between my last job and this one. I asked if I could travel to the Iqaluit Nunavut Leaders' Summit to meet with some of the leaders there and to become more aware of the issues that they were dealing with. I had not been in touch with a lot of those organizations for a long time. I went to the Nunavut Leaders' Summit and met with a lot of individuals there about the Languages Commissioner and official languages in Nunavut. Those were the ongoing issues that I mentioned earlier. The total cost of that was $1,852.

From February 25 to 27, I travelled to Inuvik and Fort McPherson for $1,307. That was to meet with the Gwich'in and Inuvialuktun language instructors and a number of political leaders in that area to deal with the language programs in the schools and any other language services in that area.

From March 16 to 20, I took leave without pay because I was very tired after leaving my other job and starting this one right away. I took just one week off in between, and I realized then that I needed a break. I took four or five days off when the Arctic Winter Games were on. I went to Whitehorse. There were no charges for that at all. It was a holiday, although some people did see me there. However, although I was on leave without pay and not at government expense, I did have a number of meetings with the Yukon Language Services and spent quite a bit of time gathering information and talking about the situation there.

On April 15 I travelled to Hay River to meet with D.C.I. and the advisory board for the treatment centre. They were trying to develop a language and culture component to be included in the new treatment centre and they asked me to attend to discuss some ideas. The cost of that trip was $314.80.

The trips to the east are so much more expensive just because of the airfare.

On April 21 I went to Edmonton to visit the office of the Commissioner of Official Languages for the N.W.T. They have an office there that covers Alberta, B.C., the N.W.T. and the Yukon and I wanted to meet with them to gather information from them about the federal Official Languages Act, how the regulations had been developed for their act and other issues like that. That cost was $760.

From May 20 to 24, I returned to Whitehorse. There was a circumpolar language development conference that I was invited to and it was attended by people from all across Canada, the United States, Greenland and Alaska with some people representing the Navajo language and the Saami language and other groups. I wanted to gather information from them on language development initiatives in their areas. The total cost was $1,608.

From June 10 to the 15, I went to Pond Inlet and Iqaluit. The purpose was community consultations and part of that time was also holidays so that was mixed. The total cost was $863. I paid most of the expenses myself. I just charged a one way ticket and that is all, the rest I paid for myself.

On June 22 I went again to Hay River to go to the government office there and look at services that were available and the needs. Also, I met with legal counsel over there. We discussed a number of issues under the act. That was $348.

From July 20 to the 24, I went to Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk. Again, it was part of the investigation that I was doing in that area. I did a lot of interviews with people about the language programs and met with a lot people. It was during the I.C.C. Conference, so I met with a lot of people who were also at that conference from different jurisdictions. The total cost was $1,236.

From July 29 and 30, I went to Rankin Inlet to meet with the Inuit Cultural Institute Board. That was $1,150.

From August 7 to 12, I went to Ottawa to meet with the Commissioner of Official Languages for Canada, Victor Goldblume, and all of his staff. He made his whole department available to me so that I could meet with them about the issues that I was dealing with such as policy development, how to handle complaints and inquiries, how to keep records and that sort of thing. I also wanted to know how the federal Official Languages Act applies in the Northwest Territories. I spent a very productive week with them. They gave me a lot of information and they have been very supportive, too, of our initiative. The total cost was $2,226.

From August 17 to 21, I went to Iqaluit and Pangnirtung. Again, this was for community consultations. It was the time when we were just starting to do some of the community surveys and I was identifying people to do the surveys and meeting with other organizations. I was gathering information about a lot of organizations. I do not know whether I can talk about all the organizations that I have met with because some of them are the result of complaints. I have met with a lot of organizations in these different communities so I am not sure, in some cases, whether I can say exactly with whom I met or the purpose. The cost there was $2,322.

From October 13 to 17, I went to Cambridge Bay, again, for community consultations. We were doing surveys, meeting with elders' groups. I met with the K.I.A. Board and again, did a survey of the government offices to see what offices and what services were available.

From November 11 to 13, I was in Rankin Inlet and Iqaluit doing community consultations and following up on some complaints and issues. I met with the K.R.C. in Rankin Inlet.

There have only been two trips made by staff. One was by Gwen Ohokak when we went to Cambridge Bay. She served as my interpreter there and did some surveys in the community herself because she speaks Inuvialuktun. That was $1,382. Janice Mathewsie went to Cape Dorset to do some surveys there and to show the other people there how to do some of the surveys. That was $773.

That is the total of the travel and the trips that I have made. I still have a couple of months left in this year and, I realize that I have made more trips probably to the east and the three regions, Kitikmeot, Keewatin and Baffin, than I have to other regions, and I have not been to Sahtu. There is another trip that I made in which we just drove. That was to Rae. I did not include that one but that was for the opening of the cultural centre. I will be concentrating more on the western Arctic and some of the communities around here in the next couple of months. Today, as I said, I was supposed to be meeting with the D.C.I. Board in Hay River and also with the treatment centre advisory council again, but I had to cancel.

The next question is a list of the prescribed organizations referred to in subsection 23. As I mentioned earlier, there is no prescribed list so what I have done is provide in my interim report a list of the organizations within which I have already met. I do not know if there is any purpose in reading that list right now. It is in the interim report that the Members have. Again, if there are to be prescribed organizations it probably means prescribed by regulation and it is a matter of deciding who is responsible...

Excuse me, Madame Languages Commissioner, the hour is 6:00 p.m.. I have to rise and report progress. I would like to thank Betty Harnum, Languages Commissioner, who appeared before the committee. We will probably continue it tomorrow. Thank you.

Item 19, Report of Committee of the Whole, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering the appearance by the Languages Commissioner and wishes to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Chairman of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Is there a seconder to the motion? Mr. Dent. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 20, Third Reading of Bills. Mr. Pollard.

The motion is in order, Mr. Pollard.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 7 has had third reading. Item 20, Third Reading of Bills. Mr. Kakfwi.